Odds & Ends: Duke, Hardy, Mets, Angels

I don't get the Brewers on this one. I would think they would have been much more interested in Doumit than Carlos Gomez.

Dont the Brew Crew have a close to Mlb ready catcher prospect? And Gomez is known as one of the best D Cf in MLB. Not to mention he is only 23 years old. I think they took the young plus D and plus speed, and offensive possibility over Doumit, who is owed money they could put towards a starter or two in FA. Oh. Gomez is also under control for 5 more years, i believe.

Hardy for Duke would have been pretty fair in a vacuum. Although as a Pirate's fan, I'm glad the deal wasn't made. As I do think Cedeno is mildy serviceable, and the Pirate's don't have many left-handed options above AA. Maholm for Hardy would have been too much to pay.

I think Doumit is a better player than Gomez, but Doumit is an offensive catcher not a defensive one. The Brewers usually look for smart catchers who can call a good game.

plus i think the plan has been all offseason to give Mike Rivera an oppotunity to start.

Funny thing is he had " a terrible season" yet he well above average D and still had 11 hr 40 rbis while missing the last two months.

If a terrible season for Hardy is still better then about 25% of the starting SS. Then I'm sure glad the Twins got him!

Only 115 games.
.229 was BAD.
11 hr , 47 rbis. not that horrible.

And you have to remember not a great SS FA market, and hes still under control for 2 more years.

His previous 2 years:
2007: .277/.323/.463/.786
26 hr, 80 rbi, 89 r in 592 ab.

2008: .283/.343/.478/.821
24 hr, 74 rbis, 78 r in 569 ab

Career Avg per 162 games:

.262/.323/.428/.751
21 hr, 75 rbis, 79 r in 589 abs.
Add Plus D to that, he just turned 27 in August and under control for 2 seasons still. Sound like worth one year of Doumit, if he really would be healthy.

And believe me if you've never seen Gomez track down a ball in Center... its a thing of beauty. He will help out Braun by covering alot further into left center. This guy kills doubles and triples.

Hardy for Maholm would have been great for the Brewers, but Hardy for Duke or the other two not so much, in my opinion. Milwaukee needed a cheap center fielder that could cover some ground so I'm not going to blame them for trading for Gomez. That said, I would have thought that they could've gotten more for Hardy, but maybe not.

um. What about them playing Andy LaRoche at 3rd Windy?

Not to mention Iwamura at 2nd..?

Oh, yeah. Good call, pats. I think they will give Alvarez and LaRoche an open contest in ST for the 3B job. I forgot all about Iwamura.

I mean, while everyone is forgetting about Iwamura... pretty sure the Twins will take him off your hands! =P

Cubs, I believe there are several 20+ home run hitters in the projected lineup, but the problem is that most of them are too young to have shown it, so there's no reliable track record.

Jones, McCutchen, Milledge, LaRoche, Doumit, and Alvarez all have 20+ power. Milledge and LaRoche were coming off of serious hand injuries this season, sapping them of their power. McCutchen and Jones showed some serious power, and Alvarez hit 30ish in the minors this year.

All i know is the Bucs finally have themselves a gameplan and a future. Thats ALOT more then 2 or 3 years ago.

Without a true #2 i meant.

I would kill for the Pirates to make the playoffs. I mean that would be a great story wouldn't it? I mean, who wouldn't want to see the pirates do good in the playoffs let alone make the playoffs. I mean they really got good pieces and you could say they could make it. I am thinking that one of their prospects may make the team and you got a goood lineup in Mccutchen Milledge Jones Ikamaru and then all the Pirates need is like a Nick Johnson and a good bullpen guy. But i think the Giants are going to get Nick Johnson. All the teams in the Nl Central are not looking upwards . You could well see the Pirates and Reds on top since the Cards have troubles with pitching and i highly doubt they will get Holliday back. Don't even think the Cubs will get into the playoffs... with their issues and low on money they r not going to get in. I mean you got Bradley, Soriano, etc... Imagine this Giants,Pirates/Reds, Nationals/Marlins/Braves make the playoffs and Orioles, Royals, Athletics. Ok well lets look Giants-easily with their pitching and a little offense. Pirates/reds-just need another couple bats [ maybe some breakout players im guessing itll happen] , Marlins-going downhill i suppose but they always try. Braves-very likely so it is between the Braves and Marlins. Orioles are rumored to get a new bat and with the yankees highly doubt it.

I don't see the Pirates making a run, for the simple reason they just don't have the pitching. Their bullpen needs a lot of help, and the starting rotation is Maholm and then it's all 4's and 5's at best. They need a solid 2-3 arms in the pen and a dominant arm in the rotation before they are a force in the NL central

Buxfan: I mean for '10. Since LaRoche and Alvarez are both 3Bs, one of them won't get 20 HR due to being benched in favor of the other (or Alvarez being in the minors).

When has Milledge shown 20 HR power? He hit 14 in one year in 138 games. In 162 games, that calculates to 16 or 17 HR, not 20. His minors-high was 15 HR in 87 G, but in the year he played 110 MiLB games, he hit 8. No track record or glimpse of that power.

It can happen with McCutchen, but I think he will be at 15-17 HR in '10, which is when I am talking about. He hit 17 HR in one season in the minors as his high. He hit 14 in the majors last year in 108 games, projecting to 18 in 162 games. That's before you factor in the veteran MLB pitchers adjusting to him and the fact he probably had 2 or 3 2-HR games and on 3-HR game, I think. Odds are he won't get as many pitches to do that with again.

Jones is one of the 2, I guess. However, it was his rookie season, so we'll see. I mean, look what happened to Soto.

Nick Johnson hit 8 in 133 games last year. He hit 20+ once ('08), and it's the only time he played 135+ games and had a SLG% .115 higher than what it was in '09.

Doumit never hit more than 12 HR in the minors, and only had 3 minors years in double-digit HRs. He has only slugged over .475 once, and he hasn't ever played 120 games in a year ('08 was the only time he broke 85 games). With his '08 total of 15, he would have to play 150 or more games to get to 20 HR.

So, there are really only 2 players that have shown real 20 HR ability there: McCutchen and Jones.

LaRoche showed the power in the minors, but he only hit 12 HR in 150 '09 games, so I can't give it to him. Alvarez just played his first pro season, so to think he would then jump to the majors and hit 20 HR or more is unrealistic.

Even optimistically, only 3 people could sniff 20--McCutchen, Jones, and LaRoche (because of the minors HRs, but I'm being VERY optimistic).

yeah, I agree the Cards have some holes to fill...but I think the pitching is fine...he kinda had me baffled there

Yea but still Piartes and Reds are rebuilding WATCH OUT!

Cubs: I get what you're saying about these guys never having shown it, which I agree with and stated in my earlier post.

That being said, Doumit was hurt for much of his minor league career and forced to DH (shocker!) He has lots of power however, and could easily do 20 if he played 135 games.

LaRoche had a huge september and that was his first full season. As a Pirate fan living near Pittsburh, I've read that he was basically not even swinging hard until the end of the season, as his thumb was still healing. Add that all up, and I can easily see 20 as well. Also, he may well move to 2b if and when Pedro comes up.

McCutchen did have a 3-homer game, but he also had zero protection with Delwyn and Morgan batting #2 all year. With Iwamuri behind him, he'll have a chance to hit twenty, along with having a good shot at leading the league in triples.

Milledge hit 14 homers in 138 games you say, and that was basically his first full season. Again, increased experience should add a few homers to that total, say 15-20 overall.

Jones has power to all fields. Hopefully he's not a flash in the pan. I got nothing else on him.

So overall, a lot of ifs, but several potential 20+ homer guys.

patsfan: I really don't think Pineiro gets a "long term deal" I don't think he will get anymore than 3 years. I'm not sure he can duplicate what he did. But alot of people forget when he was in Seattle he was pretty highly regaurded as a very solid pitcher. He just kind of lost it and I hope he has found it. Hopefully that sinker he found this year is there to stay(unless he goes to a rival, haha)

stlcards: I don't think people remember Pineiro existed before coming to the Cardinals.

So Rosenthal thinks the Mets should sign Lackey just because the Yankee signed CC and Burnett last offseason?

Trying to match what the Yankees do isn't how the Mets should operate. The only teams they need to worry about are themselves and the NL East. 6 games a year against the Yankees are meaningless in the long run. Winning the back pages doesn't put any wins in the standings.

I stand by my claim. I didn't say he was necessarily better than any name you ran out, but they aren't any better than Carpenter either when he's healthy. I feel just as comfortable with my chances of winning with Carpenter on the mound if i'm in the Cardinals dugout, as I would being in the dugout of the Jays with Halladay on the hill. Same for any of the others.

Slow Night Yawn

Doumit's career average, when projected out over 162 games, are 18 home runs and 75 rbi.

Obviously he's never reached these totals, but I doubt he has 18 hr power but not 20. He also hit 12 HRs in 51 games for AAA in 2005, so power is there.

Milledge is totally a projection because all anybody ever says about him is "toolsy".

LaRoche is just a matter of whether September was a fluke, or he was still recovering from his thumb injury the rest of the year.

Jones combined for 33 homers and 94 rbi last season, to go with 26 steals. So if he doesn't totally drop off this season, could be an all around terror.

Milledge hit

Cubs223425
Yerhero

I think lincecum and johan are both better than carpenter

I like the track NH has the Pirates on to being contenders and though its not impossible for them to compete next year I think it would be best to continue on his rebuilding track.

Looking at this market this offseason it could be a perfect opportunity for NH to sell of Duke, Maholm and Doumit for a nice return. I'll lay out my ideas for how this could look.

---THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE of how to move Duke, Maholm, and Doumit for PLAYERS LIKE THESE and TEAMS LIKE THESE---

Doumit

to the Rays for

Ried Brignac and Andy Sonnanstine

Tampa is known to need a catcher and both Brignac and Sonnanstine are odd men out in the MI depth chart and rotation. Bartlet and Zobrist are young MLB very nice starters and Beckham and Rodrigez are both ahead of Brignac in the prospect ranks. Sonnanstine struggled last year and was passed up by Niemann, Price, and Davis as the starters to combine with Shields and Garza. Brignac's glove alone would be valuable at the MLB level and even though his bat hasn't been much lately he still has plenty of potential to improve.

Duke and Maholm

to the Dodgers for

McDonald, Martin, and DeJesus Jr

This trade would singlehandedly solve the Dodgers SP depth problems if they choose not to pursue an ACE in a trade (Halladay) and would leave most of their system intact. Having a nice young rotation of Kershaw-Billingsley-Duke-Maholm-Kuroda would allow time for Elbert and Withrow to develop while not really missing McDonald or Martin. Furcal in the majors and Gordon in the wings at SS makes DeJesus more expendable. The Pirates get a MOR MLB ready starter in McDonald, a young starter with TOR potential in Martin, and another defensive minded SS recovering from injury in DeJesus Jr.

Losing those three would certianly hurt in the short term but Jamarillo seems able to start full time until Sanchez/Clement are ready to start. Pit also has some returning starters with experience and potential. After these trades I could see a Bucs team like this.

1. McCutchen CF
2. Iwamura 2B
3. Jones 1B
4. Milledge LF
5. LaRoche 3B
6. Ankiel RF ?
7. Brignac SS
8. Jamarillo C

PH Young
INF Cedeno (Brignac fameout insurance)
C Diaz

Ohlendorf 34GS
Morton 33GS
Sonnanstine 72GS
McDonald
Karstens/Hart/McCutchen

From all of that you get a real SS of the future, a legit FOR potential prospect, and a good MOR starter for right now. This team also would be great defensively and would help out their young staff. Could something along these lines be realistic?

To the poster above, how can the Pirates get better by trading away Duke and Maholm? Granted they are not ace pitchers, but they are quality middle of the rotation guys who will give you around 200 respectable innings. I get the whole rebuilding thing, but they pretty much traded away all their vets. They better believe they can win while Duke, Maholm, and Doumit are under contract. I wouldn't mind too much to see Capps and Doumit go because they are underperforming, but the bullpen needs a TON of work and I think each of these guys were unlucky last year and will come back around.

There comes a point where they have to pick a group of guys and stick with them. If you're building a house, you don't build one floor then tear it back down again, you'll never get finished.

Their rotation improved a lot last season, but the opening day starter every year struggles. Maholm needs to get it back together, and Morton could break out, they are just missing an ace but they have depth. It's a lot easier to construct a bullpen. They just need more guys who are strike throwers, Meek and Hanrahan made huge strides last year and should be quality set up men, and should be complimented with a FA signing or two in the bullpen.

Sure a rotation like that would take it's lumps but I believe Ohlendorf and Morton have the talent to really anchor that rotation and Sonnanstine is just your run of the mill innings eater. With the last two spots you get to see which of your young guys are for real and deserve spots in '11 and '12 when this team could be really dangerous.

The point of trading Duke and Maholm is to get ace potential in return. It's like the whole Sanchez/Wilson debate. Sure they are fatastic quality regulars but are they going to win you a WS or even a playoff spot? Probably not.

I don't think they should be traded just to be traded but if you can get ACE potential back you have to do it. NH should be in a position in this market where he can say "Make me trade these guys, because I'm perfectly ok holding onto them"

STL has 2 Cy Young-caliber SPs and the best pitching in the league BY FAR, and maybe the best ever (until Maddux becomes one...). They have THE Machine Pujols, Rasmus is going to be better, they CAN keep Holliday (but we don't know what will happen), and Ludwick is another strong hitter. They have 2 strong bats, 2 ace pitchers, and a top-10 closer (if not to-5)."

Best pitching in the league? They have a crappy pen and 2 top guys.... and thats it for the rotation. Best pitching in the league 'BY FAR' is WAY off. And to expect Wainwright and Carpenter both repeat 08, with the injury history and past performances is generous. And Im still lauhging at the 'best ever' comment...

Pujols is on a planet of his own, no doubt. Rasmus wont get better until he plays, and LaRussa seemed to not have a lot of trust in him. Honestly, I have never been impressed with Ludwick.. seems like a guy who will never have a team that guarantees more than a few years.

So, they have one monster bat(who you beat by putting him on via the walk, look at the NLDS), a mediocre hitter, a CF who may be good, but we need to see him play more before calling him anything important. 2 ace pitchers, as long as 09 wasnt a fluke, and anything but a top 10 closer. Did you watch the 2nd half? OR the playoffs? Top 10, or maybe top 5? Are you crazy???

BBXXJ:

While the Rays definitely need a catcher, I can't see them adding Doumit's salary over the next couple of seasons without dumping some first. With the abitration raise he's due, I could maybe see a Bartlett for Doumit and a RP deal. Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of what they do with Navarro because I can't imagine they're going to pay 2 mil for a backup C.

Someone alluded to it earlier, but the Brewers didn't have much need for Doumit with two catching prospects in the high minors (Jonathan Lucroy and Angel Salome). I expect at least one of them to be on the MLB roster in 2010. Doumit would have been an expensive backup at that point.

bbxxj, how hard where you hitting the crackpile when you came up with Duke and Maholm to the Dodgers for McDonald, Martin, and DeJesus Jr? The Dodgers need an ace, not two subpar national league central pitchers.I doubt they would send such a non-expensive high upside player like James Mcdonald to the Pirates for Duke and Maholm.The Dodgers would be better serve to just sign one of the many low level pitchers on the free agent market.

^^ meant Duke not Dukes.

@Pageian

Martin wasn't a throw-in. He was the main point of the deal. McDonald isn't an ace in the making as his ceiling is likely where Duke is now. The other parts of that deal don't really matter as long as they get one real high upside starter in the deal like Martin, Elbert, or Withrow or someone like those pitchers from another organization.

Pit has enough guys who can start now that they don't need McDonald in return as long as LAD added in another lower level pitcher with upside.

Posted by: bbxxj | November 15, 2009 at 12:05 PM"

Why would the Dodgers do that??! Better idea, sign Garland/Harden/Bedard and keep the prospects.