Odds & Ends: Hardy, Tejada, Cardinals, Mariners

wow, brewers really messed this one up, you could have received a 3/4 type in the NL with barely any service time at all but instead you take the guy who can only field.

Another deal that I'm glad didn't happen. Hardy will almost definitely bounce back for the Twinkies, but I'm glad the Sox didn't give up Bowden or anyone else like that for him.

Mariners wanted Bard or Buchholz and turned down Bowden...but took Carlos Gomez instead?

Laughable.

Lol. What a joke. The Twins were demanding Buchholz or Bard from the Sox but were willing to take Gomez.....Yea, that's really equal...

Haha that made my day right there. The brewers wanted Buchholz or Bard for Hardy! That is the most idiotic asking price i've seen in awhile. And then they take Gomez?

I think you guys are underselling Gomez here a little bit. By having him in CF MIL has excess cash to spend on SP and with his defense he is at least replacement level in CF. If his bat grows (which is entirely possible given his pedigree) given full time playing time in the NL then he will be a valuable player.

Also the forgotten guy in all of this is Mat Gamel. He also is without a full time starting spot and he could fetch a young starter.

MIL filled out all of their position spots while lowering their payroll and so they can go into FA with a bit more spending power and a good position player trade chip to burn.

**waits for every Red Sox fan to overrate and overvalue Bard**

"I think you guys are underselling Gomez here a little bit."

Not really, most people seem to agree he's a future defensive replacement. And I certainly don't think Gomez is worth as much as Buchholz and Bard. No way Theo gives up Bard or Buchholz without getting something essential back.

Brewers wanted Clay or Bard. HA.

@start wearing purple

Yeah, I think its fair to say that Gomez isn't on the same level of return as Buchholz or Bard but that doesn't have much to do with how much people are discounting Gomez. I don't agree that he is going to be a defensive replacement. What he is right now is a replacement level player but if he improves just a little he will have some value. I'm not saying he will be an offensive force but a defensive wiz with an OK bat is not without value and Gomez could certainly become that.

Whether Bowden is worth more than Gomez, long term, who knows? Both have plenty of projectabilty but struggled in the bigs. I do know that playing Gomez in CF frees up more cash that can be spent on FA starters who should be better than Bowden short term.

The Brewers should have taken Bowden for Hardy in a heartbeat. That is just bad.

Bowden can be 4/5 in NL easy, he struggled in 09 in the majors but wasn't given a chance to start, rather making the trip to Boston for AAA and pitching that night a couple of times, once against the Yankees - thats tough. Did well in AAA and is under control for 6 years.

Hardy has always struggled to perform for a full year, even his good years usually fell away by years end and only had 2 years left after coming off a bad year.

Instead they got a speedy CF who just sucks. And its not that Gomez is terrible with the bat, I hate his constant comments otherwise. Like blaming 09 performance on not being an everyday player. He was an everyday player for all of 08 and sucked. He doesn't deservice to be on a MLB roster as anything but a pinch runner given his current performances.

Good luck with that Brewers, bet you by 2012 he has been non-tendered.

Bowden's big league numbers are skewed due to the way he was utilized. He became a spot starter, then a long reliever and back to a spot starter on such an inconsistent basis that I'm sure it was difficult for him to know what was going on. At one point during the season I saw Francona use him for two innings of relief, another inning no more than a day or two later and then he started a game within the same week. The Red Sox were absolutely brutal on him. I'm saying this as a Sox fan myself, no sugar coating the fact that they set him up for failure, at least IMHO.

"**waits for every Red Sox fan to overrate and overvalue Bard**"

Anybody who doesn't hate the Sox and knows anything about baseball knows that if the Sox traded Bard straight up for Hardy, the Sox would lose big time in that deal...

Crew of Brew - that is a fair point.

But consider this.

If they got Bowden for Hardy, they could still have 20 million, because Bowden is cheaper and under control for longer, and put him in #5, #6 in pitching depth, or use him as they solid pitcher.

Use a few million of that money to sign Coco Crisp - also a good defensive CF.

There is also money left over to sign a good pitcher, use Bowden as solid pitcher, and you could afford a great pitcher in Lackey or someone, and a better bench bat.

Blackcourt, live with Selig as your owner for almost the entire francise life and you'll see why the Brewers were in mediocracy for so long. We actually have a owner that is willing to dip into his pockets for a change!

While I hate the trade, there's no guarentee that Bowden was available in the days before the trade. Gomez, might have been the best offer.

The asking for Buchholz and Bard sounds like deadline type deals but who knows. Until Melvin or Epstein say what was offered, none of us will know.

Also, thats the second person to question if the Brewers were wanting Buchholz or Bard recently.

The article suggests they were and cited sources. So unless anyone has good reason to cast doubt on that, I say we are to believe it more so than not.

The article did say the Brewers were not interested in Bowden (not sure why considering they took Gomez who has had 2 years in the big leagues with nothing to show for it) so it makes sense they would ask for Buchholz or Bard.

also.. gomez has a lot more offensive potential than crisp and he is younger. Plus I would be embarassed to root for someone named coco hehehe

Crew, we need pitching more than hitting. Plus what are they going to do with Cain now that he's blocked? Seems like a waste of Hardy to me...

Lol at the Coco comment.

Interesting article about Beckett. I doubt Boston will trade him, but ya never know.

I wonder what Boston (or any team for that matter) will value Beckett at (in terms of dollars and years)? He's definitely a top of the rotation guy, but he will be 31 when his contract runs out and he has had injury problems in the past. Plus, Boston seems to have a surplus of young good arms.

But from Beckett's perspective, I'm sure he's at LEAST going to want AJ Burnett type money (5-years, $82.5 million). I figure Lackey will get a similar deal this off-season. It's going to be interesting to see how this all pans out.

I am not convinced Beckett is looking to maximise dollars.

He didn't signing his current extension with Boston (knowing he could get more on FA market) and he said at the time money didn't bother him as he was still going to make a lot of it.

And he MUST know that between Pedro, Damon leaving, Bay not getting an extension, the extensions signed for Youk, Pedroia, Lester etc that the Red Sox are NOT going to sign him to an extension while he is under control for market value (in signing extensions with Youk, Pedroia, Lester - although they were under control Epstein said to do that the Sox had to get something i.e. free agent years which were included in all deals and they had to be cost effective).

So if Beckett is approaching the Sox to know, and is speaking about wanting to stay in Bostn I don't think he is wanting every dollar. A pay rise is in order, but I can see them agreeing to a 4 year deal worth around 17-18 a year.

A lot of bejabbering in this thread without anyone getting to the real issue - Who do the Sox plug in at shortstop now that they've missed out on Hardy? Are they really going with Gonzalez or do they have something else up their sleeve? Wasn't there some crap written this last season about the Sox pursuing Yunel Escobar?

"Wasn't there some crap written this last season about the Sox pursuing Yunel Escobar?"

Yeah but he is not available.

Whether Bowden was offered during the year or during the off-season is irrelevant. The Brewers vanquished Hardy to the minors. What value was there in holding on to him only to sell low in the off-season?

As for the money savings ... look you either acquire a CF and use money for pitching (which they did) or you acquire a pitcher and use your money to sign a CF'er. My guess is that you can find a defensive minded CF'er cheaper than you can find a 5th starter.

Gomez is flat out terrible. He should not be starting in the majors.

bjsguess: sure the brewers could have gotten a 5th starter, but if you knew their rotation as well as you pretend to or though about it from a different perspective for lets say 30 seconds you would realize the Brewers have all the 5th starters they need.

Bush, Looper (if exercised) Suppan are all 4-5's. You can even through Narveson is their if you want. As for a potential closer they have Braddock who should be up soon killing it this year.

They did not need another 5th starter but they did need a CF. They decided to take the CF early in the offseason and see what they could do with the extra cash.

Also to the people that stated that they would rather have Bowden as a reliever that Gomez as a CF, that is your choice and one that is a heck of a lot easier to make when you have an extra 50MM to spend. All teams are not built in a tiny box, but as of right now the Brewers have 20MM for this year and over 20MM for next year coming off the books.

I think all expectations are for the Red Sox to resign Josh Beckett. There isn't any reason to believe he is going to be looking to get every single dollar that he possibly could, but I'm sure he does want to get a contract that demonstrates the Sox respect his ability to spearhead that rotation. I think the guess above by quintjs is going to be pretty accurate, 4 years and $18M per is what I'm guessing. Good luck to the Brewers, perhaps Gomez is something more than he has looked like so far and I hope for your sake that he is. I would liked to have seen Hardy in Boston because of his defense and the possible turn around at the dish.

"If Bowden wasn't in the Red Sox organization, no one would ever talk about him. Like another poster pointed out, the Brewers already have all the #4/5 type pitchers they need. Melvin will use the extra money this traded freed up to go after a legit #2/3 guy."

Have you ever looked at Bowden's minor league numbers? I'm sure you haven't by the looks of this comment. Perhaps you should go do a little researching for you post a message that sounds about as uninformed as a person can get. It isn't some myth that the Sox have concentrated their efforts on acquiring power pitchers in the draft since Theo became GM and it isn't a myth that they have been VERY successful in their development. But you can keep pretending if it makes this trade more palatable for you.

Yes, I actually looked at a scouting report someone linked to on Bowden and it said that the MLB comparison to him is Jeff Suppan.

I think I would pass on that one.

"Whether Bowden is worth more than Gomez, long term, who knows? Both have plenty of projectabilty but struggled in the bigs."

The big differecne is that Gomez has struggled in over 11 plate appearances, while Bowden struggled, but only for 21 innings.

This was a case of Doug Melvin insisting on the better return and not backing down. And when he fould out he wasn't going to get Buchholz or Bard, he tried to save face and move on...

I think Bowden could have a better OBP than Gomez. Awful trade for the Brewers. It's like telling a blind man his wife's a supermodel, but she really isn't.

What are the chances the red sox trade josh beckett? maybe include him in a package for prince? hes probably asking for 20 million a year.

Riotjuicer, no one is scoffing at Hardy for Bard. What I'm scoffing at is that they would demand Buchholz or Bard, be offerred Bowden, but accept Carlos Gomez for Hardy.

I know it's a money thing. But you still shouldn't short change yourself. That's why I find the whole report bogus. That's why is a rumor. A rumor I find hard to believe.

great trade for twins and for brewers. Now all the brewers need to do is dump Suppan and Looper and get some good quality starting pitching.

Why don't they let Cameron go free agent, take his 10 million and get John Garland?

Jeff Suppan is terrible by the way. I think he's owed 14 million next year. The Brewers had nothing left to do with Hardy. Escobar is the present and future. After the deadline passed his value dropped significantly. Gomez fills a need for the Brewers. Hardy will be a great fit for Minnesota if he bats .250 with 15-20 HR and provides a solid glove.

"Jeff Suppan is terrible by the way. I think he's owed 14 million next year. The Brewers had nothing left to do with Hardy. Escobar is the present and future. After the deadline passed his value dropped significantly. Gomez fills a need for the Brewers. Hardy will be a great fit for Minnesota if he bats .250 with 15-20 HR and provides a solid glove."

Nice post. Only thing in that Suppan makes 12.5 million in 2010, not 14. That is his last season with the Brewers.