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« Cubs Rumors: Marmol, Payroll, Theriot | Main | Heyman On Bradley, Gonzalez, Halladay »
Sherman On Mets, Giants, Cardinals, Yankees
Joel Sherman of the New York Post suggests, as Adam Rubin did earlier today, that the New York Mets may not be able to sign Matt Holliday or Jason Bay because of payroll restrictions. A Mets official tells Sherman that, if that is the case, the team's Plan B involves trying to "sprinkle power at a variety of positions" rather than adding one elite hitter.
One scenario Sherman outlines for the Mets is adding a catcher like Bengie Molina, an outfielder such as Jermaine Dye or Mark DeRosa, and then moving Luis Castillo to clear second base for someone with more power.
It sounds like the Giants and Mets will be the main competitors for Molina's services. The Giants would like to bring him back, and will look to spend more on their offense this winter, though a "team insider" says that Bay's and Holliday's price tags might be out of San Francisco's range as well.
In another article, Sherman writes that the St. Louis Cardinals don't anticipate Holliday signing anywhere until after Christmas. The team also fears that the New York Yankees could get involved in the bidding. If the Yankees were to retain Hideki Matsui and Johnny Damon, as has been rumored, you'd have to think the Cardinals would like their chances of bringing back Holliday a lot more.
However, Damon apparently won't do the Yankees any favors by giving them a hometown discount. In one last article, Sherman outlines Scott Boras's case for Damon earning a long-term deal and big money.
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I wonder if Luke Scott would make sense for the Mets via a trade. He's not expensive in terms of money and he wouldn't cost them any of their top prospects. He's still under team control for 3 years. And when he was a full time left fielder his UZR/150 was always above average.
Posted by: Steveo26 | November 10, 2009 at 01:02 PM
So happened to "Theres no way the Cardinals can compete with the Mets in a bidding war"
I'm not one of the Cardinal fans that believe we "need" to bring back Holliday,although I would like to.
If the Yanks bring back Damon and Matsui, the Mets have too many holes to spend all their money on one guy,and the Giants looking less likely
Maybe that 6yr 96mil the Cardinals had talked before isn't such a stretch
Posted by: stlcards16 | November 10, 2009 at 01:02 PM
This would be a perfect time for Liberty to raise the Braves payroll (as rumored) to 110M so Holliday could be added.
We could sign:
Holliday 20/yr max
LaRoche 8.5/yr
Lyon/Gonzo/Wagner ~4-5M to close
AND keep our rotation depth
While not giving up prospects or blocking Heyward.
If there is any move to spurge on Liberty, this is it.
Posted by: bbxxj | November 10, 2009 at 01:04 PM
Couldn't the Mets sign Dye, Molina and DeRosa if they are planning to trade Castillo anyway? Can't DeRosa play 2B anymore?
Posted by: cmac1973 | November 10, 2009 at 01:04 PM
"sprinkle power" over several positions?
LOL. This team was good in 2006.
What. The. Hell. Happened.
Posted by: withpower | November 10, 2009 at 01:09 PM
personally its best that the Mets do not sign Bay/Holliday. Signing Wolf,Marquis,Dye/Cameron/DeRosa, Hudson, Molina would be much stronger then just Holliday
Posted by: nymets86 | November 10, 2009 at 01:10 PM
"If there is any move to spurge on Liberty, this is it."
Any time is a good time to increase the payroll!
"What. The. Hell. Happened."
Experience became age and Shi... sorry Citifield. Also deluded management, inferiority complex and a ravaged farm system.
Anyway, today the Cards can sign Holliday, tommorrow we can't and the day after we can again... the only guarantee is that Holliday will be hitting a ball with a bat come April.
Posted by: Aranathor | November 10, 2009 at 01:16 PM
nymets86,
Cameron isn't coming back. And a lot of those guys you're mentioning are old as dirt and weren't even very good last year.
Randy Wolf is going to want multiple years. DeRosa will probably get offers to play 3B full time for a better team. Why sign with NYM? If they won't overpay for Holliday, they're going to overpay for DeRosa?
Hudson over Castillo seems like a pretty lateral move. Slightly better, but still below average defense [look it up, O-Dog hasn't been a plus defender since Toronto], and a bit more power with less patience.
Posted by: withpower | November 10, 2009 at 01:18 PM
Actually last year was injuries and injuries and more injuries. And they won 88 and 89 games the two years before so really is it that big of a mess?? Again the farm is not nearly as bad as the clueless parrots who repeat a 3 year old truth say. They do need to fill some holes but what team couldnt use more pitching and a big bat? I just pray its not bengie "the out Machine" Molina
Posted by: tvators1 | November 10, 2009 at 01:28 PM
Why the Giants would want to sing Bengie Molina is beyond me. They have a younger, cheaper and better player waiting in the wings in Buster Posey.
Posted by: Anthony Tshering | November 10, 2009 at 01:31 PM
"sprinkle power at a variety of positions"
Isn't that what we had in 2009? What we need is a force that can protect Wright and Beltran in the lineup. Otherwise teams are just going to continue to pitch around those two. That is why the Mets had fewer home runs. It had very little to do with the park.
Posted by: Paulio, Male Gigalo | November 10, 2009 at 01:36 PM
Your farm isn't bad in the sense that you don't have anybody down there.
Your farm is bad in the sense that you would have to absolutely gut it if you wanted an impact player through trade. Havens, Davis, Mejia, FMart, kiss them goodbye.
NYM have got to hope Beltran stays healthy and Ollie Perez can put together a decent season. Having players other than Martinez, Tatis, and Francouer getting OF at-bats would be a great place to start. Handing Jason Marquis and Randy Wolf long term deals seems like a great way to finish 5 or 6 games behind Philly.
Posted by: withpower | November 10, 2009 at 01:39 PM
nymets86: I understand spreading out the money instead of signing Holiday/Bay, but they guys you mentioned would cost 3x what Holiday would get. Wolf will get at least $10-12 million, and probably more. Dye, Marquis, Hudson and Molina will cost probably $30 million. My guess is the Mets don't spend more than $20-25 million on new players this offseason.
Posted by: Steveo26 | November 10, 2009 at 01:45 PM
I honestly believe that Mets fans are going to have to 'grin and bear it' so to speak in 2010. The Phillies are probably out of reach in 2010, aiming for 2011 success is more realistic. Yes the farm system has recovered (to a certain extent) but that doesn't mean that the effects of poor management over the last few years have worn off just yet. Sit tight, shed some salary and get a few prospects who might help in 2011.
Posted by: Aranathor | November 10, 2009 at 01:46 PM
Who exactly would that second baseman with more power be?? I think if you're a met fan you'd want to keep Castillo and his .387 on base percentage at all costs. Since when has second base been a needed source of power unless you have a dude named Chase Utley on your team.
Posted by: TargetField2010 | November 10, 2009 at 01:50 PM
This article is depressing.
I hate the Wilpons with a passion. this is Straight up embezzlement. Save the press confrence "apology" sessions and spend some damn money or don't. don't pillage on of the few solidified postions we have to usher in mediocrity. Add Molina, bring Delgado back, and sign Lackey.
Posted by: xplosive | November 10, 2009 at 01:54 PM
Anyone know if there's a chat today?
Posted by: dizzle | November 10, 2009 at 01:56 PM
If they dont sign either bay or holliday because their price was too high, then the price of tickets is too high for me
Posted by: johan is GOD | November 10, 2009 at 01:56 PM
The mets don't have a good enough rotation to "sprinkle power". Unless they get Ace 1b or a relatively young hitter who hits around 30 hr's a year, people won't go to games and they will win around 75-80 games max
Posted by: johan is GOD | November 10, 2009 at 02:02 PM
I won't read too much into this. The Wilpons have made a committment to Mets fans to be competitive in the FA and retain a high payroll. I firmly believe we will have Matt Holliday in LF next year. How about dealing Jeff Francoeur and bringing in Dye to play RF too?
Posted by: JoseJoseJoseeee | November 10, 2009 at 02:02 PM
I really believe the Mets can compete in 2010, but I won't be surprised if they don't until 2011. Regardless, I want to see Omar take advantage of his position in the upcoming draft and spend some real money.
Posted by: Paulio, Male Gigalo | November 10, 2009 at 02:06 PM
2009 ideal mets lineup
1b-N.johnson or overbay
2b.castillo(until traded)
3b.wright
ss.reyes
c.b.molina
lf.R.Ankiel
CF.beltran
RF.dye
STARTING PITCHERS
1.JOHAN
2.HARDEN
3.WOLF
4.PELFREY
5.PEREZ
Posted by: jwestford | November 10, 2009 at 02:06 PM
Ankiel as starting left fielder? .231/.285/.387 for 2009, might want to rethink that one. Harden is nowhere near reliable enough to consider a number 2 and i would consider Wolf, Pelfry and Perez as No.5 starters (at best), and i wouldn't count on Perez at all.
Posted by: Aranathor | November 10, 2009 at 02:14 PM
The mets need dwight gooden!
Seriously I believe the priorities are:
1. Left fielder with pop
2. #2 starter(halladay)
3.#3 starter(randy wolf)
4. Setup man
Trade for luke scott
Outbid the phillies trade proposal for halladay
Sign randy wolf
Sign kiko calero
Ss jose reyes
2b luis castillo
3b david wright
Cf carlos beltran
Lf luke scott
Rf jeff franceour
1b daniel murphy
C omir santos
Johan santana
Roy halladay
Randy wolf
Mike pelfrey
John maine
Brian stokes
Pat misch
Pedro felicano
Bobby parnell
Sean green
Kiko calero
K rod
I would be happy with this
Posted by: beastOftheEast | November 10, 2009 at 02:15 PM
if they dont intend on contending this year, they might as well trade beltran now when he has 2 years left instead of one to get max back. I believe he is their best player but is 33 and his legs are a big part of his game and i dont see him lasting past 35. Why not try to get max from the redsox and compete in 2011 which is gonna happen with a young team. Nobody will be old and say they get ellsbury, bucholz, and another prospect in return their 2011 team would be very young and athletic
Posted by: johan is GOD | November 10, 2009 at 02:20 PM
The mets are not like the yankees they dont have $$ like them they r the top 5 richest club but to be realistic ankiel got pop and a good arm n he's not gonna ask for alot like a bay or holliday so u wanna be in fantasy baseball world(dont blame u but not practical) he's a good fit and harden good for 2yrs 16m wolf as a #3 that would be a dramatic change from what they have now
Posted by: jwestford | November 10, 2009 at 02:23 PM
"ellsbury, bucholz, and another prospect in return their 2011 team would be very young and athletic"
Ellsbury isn't a prospect, the Mets would have to give MORE than Beltran to get hold of him. But i agree that trading Beltran would be a good move for the right return. However he's owed $18.5mil in 2010 and 201, with a full no trade clause. Might not be so easy to shift. The only match i can really see for that is the Cubs, but i'm not really sure.
Posted by: Aranathor | November 10, 2009 at 02:25 PM
jwestford: The Mets have the 2nd highest payroll in all of baseball and are apparently committed to making FA moves this year, they do have the money even if they are not the Yankees, they aren't in the same league and thus do not have to compete with them, the Mets have the top payroll in their league so they ARE basically the Yankees.
As a Cardinal fan i can tell you that Ankiel is NOT a good fit playing everyday, he's got above average defence (to my eye) but he was very poor at the plate in 2009. Harden could have 100 IP over two years, not the kind of risk the Mets need. They have far too many variables heading into 2010 as it is. Health of many key players, bullpen, rotation etc. Throwing money at the problem will not help a club this far sunk.
Posted by: Aranathor | November 10, 2009 at 02:33 PM
If the Mets are looking to move Castillo so they can add a 2b with more power I wonder if they'd be open to trading Castillo plus some money for Mike Fontenot? Fontenot obviously has more power than Castillo, if given an everyday job he's likely to hit 15-20 HR a year. Unfortunately he didn't have a good 2009 season but looking at his career stats he's a descent hitter for a 2b. Mets need the power, Cubs need a good .OBP at the top of the order. If the Mets paid half of Castillo's contract I would think the Cubs would do it.
Posted by: pageian | November 10, 2009 at 02:39 PM
I think the mets are a flat out roster MESS right now. I say keep Reyes Wright and Beltran and overhaul the rest cuz all those other guys just SUCK. Jermaine Dye? OK he'd be fine but he's a defensive liability and he strikes out a TON. You'll be frustrated there. I just think the mets problems run deeper than adding a few guys here and there. They are 5 great offseasons away from being serious World Series contenders and I say that because the of where the real contenders are at and what they are doing each offseason.
Posted by: TargetField2010 | November 10, 2009 at 02:42 PM
beastOftheEast:
This has been widely debated...but look, the Mets CANNOT outbid the Phillies for Halladay. The Mets have one, ONE prospect (FMart) that's in the same league as Brown, Taylor and Drabek for the Phillies. Those three guys were ALL in BBA's Top 25 Mid-season Prospect report.
Behind FMart, the Mets have about 10 guys that underperformed or have major ?'s about them...Holt and Mejia took steps backward once facing AA hitters, Thole can't field and may have to be moved from C (which he then becomes a 1B/OF with zero HR power)...they just DON'T have the guys right now.
Next season? If those guys perform, then you have some good trade chips. Right now they have very little.
Posted by: Muggi | November 10, 2009 at 02:48 PM
BeastoftheEast: I like the idea, i think Scott, Wolf and a reliever are key for the Mets. New York needs another starter as well but I don't see them trading for Halladay for two reasons, talent and money.
The Mets system is better, but it would cost 3-4 top prospects to get Halladay and they don't really have that talent depth. On top of that the Mets would have to sign Halladay to an extension costing quite a bit of money over the next few years, while they are still dealing with some previous bad contracts. I think the Mets are a bit of a longshot for the playoffs even with Halladay, if they still want him in a year they can sign him in FA.
While trading for a starter makes some sense, they should focus on younger guys who are arb. eligible and under control for at least 2 years. Someone like Zach Duke from the Pirates or Brandon McCarthy from the Rangers. If they are already doing a deal with the O's maybe they could see if Guthrie is available. A rotation of Santana, Wolf, Maine, Pelfrey and one of these guys would be pretty solid. And allow the Mets the flexibility to trade for what they need at the deadline if they are in the playoff race.
Posted by: Steveo26 | November 10, 2009 at 02:49 PM
Why the Giants would want to sing Bengie Molina is beyond me. They have a younger, cheaper and better player waiting in the wings in Buster Posey.
Posted by: Anthony Tshering | November 10, 2009 at 01:31 PM
The reason is the simple fact that Posey needs a year of seasoning before he is called up full time. His bat really hasn't come around (I believe he is currently hitting .220) and he needs more experience calling games. If you watched him at the end of this season the bench was calling the game for him and he was just relaying it to the pitcher. He's only been a catcher for what a season or 2? He was a shortstop and relief pitcher in college. Bottom line, ideally, he needs another season before he's brought up full time. Mets fans, you can have Molina. Just wait until after we offer arbitration and he declines so we get the draft pick.
Posted by: Humm Baby | November 10, 2009 at 02:52 PM
"personally its best that the Mets do not sign Bay/Holliday. Signing Wolf,Marquis,Dye/Cameron/DeRosa, Hudson, Molina would be much stronger then just Holliday"
DeRosa sucks, Marquis sucks more, and Molina really sucks. Dye isn't on Hollidays level. All that would be is the Mets overpaying mediocre players for their name value. Again.
Muggi.... yawn.
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 10, 2009 at 03:28 PM
"Ellsbury isn't a prospect, the Mets would have to give MORE than Beltran to get hold of him.
If the Red Sox cloned Jacoby Ellsbury 10 times, and offered all 10 of him for Beltran, I would still tell Theo to s my d.
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 10, 2009 at 03:29 PM
"2009 ideal mets lineup
1b-N.johnson or overbay
2b.castillo(until traded)
3b.wright
ss.reyes
c.b.molina
lf.R.Ankiel
CF.beltran
RF.dye
STARTING PITCHERS
1.JOHAN
2.HARDEN
3.WOLF
4.PELFREY
5.PEREZ
"
ideal lineup? That team sucks. What is wrong with you people? What is the world coming too?
What is it about Bengie Molina that makes anybody think this guy is good? Is it his bad defense? Is it his sub .300 OBP? Is it his absolutely horrendous baserunning? Is it the fact that he is old and fat?
Oh, no I know. It's the 80 RBI!!!! Cause RBI's RULEZZZZZZZZZ
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 10, 2009 at 03:31 PM
"and i would consider Wolf, Pelfry and Perez as No.5 starters (at best),"
When did it become cool to advertise your stupidity.
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 10, 2009 at 03:33 PM
nrmax88: Settle down man, and since when is Dye ok compared to DeRosa and company, I'd rather have DeRosa or Marquis on my team than Dye. Dye is AWFUL in the field, DeRosa while no gold glover himself, at least can play somewhat challenging positions and offers good offense. Dye hits homeruns but does nothing else offensively. Marquis isn't an ace but he could be the Mets Joe Blanton and thats not too shabby.
I agree Molina is well overrated, but its not as though signing Holiday is gonna make the Mets WS contenders.
Also your comment about Ellsbury and Beltran is way off base. Beltran is making $40 million over these next two years and is coming off multiple injuries. The Mets would get such a steal to trade him for Ellsbury and then get that money off their books.
Posted by: Steveo26 | November 10, 2009 at 03:54 PM
Haha, I was thinking the exact same thing about that lineup Max. If you are putting Bengie Molina as your 5 hole hitter, than you can't expect to have a 90-95 win team.
Posted by: R y a n | November 10, 2009 at 03:58 PM
Luke Scott is an interesting idea, because he would not cost a whole lot in terms of prospects and does not make a ton of money. He has a positive UZR in LF for his career and solid last season. The only thing that worries me is the terrible home/road splits he has last year. In 08 and mostly 2009, Scott was brutal on the road.
Posted by: MrMet | November 10, 2009 at 04:35 PM
It would be a steal if the for the Mets if they traded Beltran for Ellsbury? Oh my god. What is the world coming too. I honestly can't believe that a human being can actually be so stupid as to believe that.
Carlos Beltran provided more value to the Mets in 2008 then Jacoby Ellsbury has given the Red Sox in his entire career. Once again. Beltran was worth more money in 2008 then Jacoby Ellsbury has been worth for the last 3 years.
DeRosa is mehh. He is a crap fielder unless he plays the OF. If he plays the OF he doesn't provide enough offense.
Jason Marquis is also awful. He has been terrible his whole career. He has one season with an FIP under 5 and now he is some must have pitcher? He stinks. Joe Blanton is much better then Marquis, and he is no prize either.
I don't want Dye either, to tell you the truth.
Matt Holliday.
Aaron Harang.
Kiko Calero.
Lets go to war.
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 10, 2009 at 05:22 PM
And why is a team wanting to win worrying about money coming off the books? Let alone money coming off the books in a position where you get outstanding production, where you won't even be able to come close to replacing that production. Why not trade Johan Santana for Jorge Campillo. It would be so awesome bro, cuz we cud likes totally clear so much caps space lolzzzzz
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 10, 2009 at 05:25 PM
NRMAX88- #1 U need to shut up!!!! half the garbage your talking about makes no sense who do u think u r buster olney or peter gammons,I like how ur critical about what everybody thinks the mets should do but can't even make ur own suggestion!!with the crap FA'S out there u bring up harang n holliday!! yea sure holliday alone will get us to the playoffs MY GOD I HOPE U DO UR RESEARCH B4 u open ur TRAP!!!
Posted by: jwestford | November 10, 2009 at 06:57 PM
I actually like what nrmax88 is saying about go getting Harang who was a very good starter a couple years ago.
Posted by: nyreyes15 | November 10, 2009 at 07:07 PM
If I thought I were Buster Olney or Peter Gammons I would have killed myself a long time ago.
And at least I have an understanding of the english language. This will be the last I respond to you, because I don't have discussions with guys who can't spell and/or use punctuation.
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 10, 2009 at 07:41 PM
I lied.
"Matt Holliday.
Aaron Harang.
Kiko Calero.
Lets go to war."
That is my suggestion. I'm sorry if it is not as ridiculous and unrealistic enough for this sites readers.
Posted by: nrmax88 | November 10, 2009 at 07:43 PM
the Giants need to raise the payroll cuz everyone knows they have the money they should raise it and bring in Bay
Posted by: Black&orange pride | November 11, 2009 at 04:50 AM
To hell with Matt Holliday. As a Cardinal fan, I saw first hand the love he received from my city. If he does not want to be a Cardinal, then go to New York, make a bunch of money and get booed by May.
Posted by: jadre | November 11, 2009 at 09:29 AM
Giants will only sign Bengie if for 1 year --- which I think he wil reject in Arbitration (then they get draft pick from whoever signs him).
Bengie for 1 year teaching Posey is not bad.
Then they add Nick Johnson at 1st....Penny replaces Randy Johnson.
And the biggest blow would be a cheap Jermaine Dye ---if that happens get ready for the playoffs
Velez/Torres
Sanchez
Nic Johnson
Sandoval
Dye
Molina
Renteria
Rowand
Pitcher...bring on the Yanks!
Posted by: Lou | November 11, 2009 at 01:23 PM
Wow NRMAX88 Beltran blows im not saying ellsibury is better but i think the mets would be wise to trade beltran for mcclouth or hawpe they are younger and produce more and stay healthy also just release oliver perez he sucks
Posted by: Sportfan22 | November 11, 2009 at 01:35 PM
This is good news for St. Louis, if the Mets cannot sign Holliday that takes a huge bidder out. All i'm worried about is the Red Sox, Giants (to an extent), and the Big bad Yanks. Anywhere else he may sign (Reality please)
Posted by: StlHolliday | November 11, 2009 at 04:04 PM