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Trade Market: Starting Pitchers

By Tim Dierkes [November 12, 2009 at 4:27pm CST]

Next up in our Trade Market series, starting pitchers. Click here to see our free agent market analysis. Get a comfy chair, because there are about 30 pitchers named here.

Roy Halladay, Blue Jays. Doc is perhaps the game's best pitcher, and new Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos may look to cash him in for a bevy of young talent. Halladay has a no-trade clause and $15.75MM remaining on his contract.
Edwin Jackson, Tigers. The rumor first surfaced at the GM Meetings that Jackson could be made available as a way for the Tigers to trim payroll. Jackson's probably not as good as his 3.62 ERA this year, but he's only 26 and is under team control for two more years.
Justin Verlander, Tigers. We haven't heard Verlander's name in trade rumors. But he's similar to Felix Hernandez, a young ace headed toward a large second-year arbitration award. Imagine the teams that would come calling for Verlander.
Nate Robertson, Tigers. At $10MM next year, the Tigers could attempt to unload Robertson in a bad contract swap or by pairing him with someone valuable. He had minor elbow surgery in July and hasn't been effective in years.
Dontrelle Willis, Tigers. Willis, owed $12MM in 2010, suffered through another lost season this year. He has even less trade value than Robertson.
Jeremy Bonderman,Tigers. The 27-year-old Bonderman would be an interesting project if he wasn't owed $12.5MM. He's coming back from a shoulder injury.
Derek Lowe, Braves. Trading Lowe would free up $45MM over the next three years for the Braves. The contract might be viewed as excessive, but Lowe still has value.
Kenshin Kawakami, Braves. With $13.3MM owed over the new two years, Kawakami would be an affordable mid-rotation acquisition. Kawakami posted a 3.86 ERA in 156.3 innings in his MLB debut.
Javier Vazquez, Braves. Vazquez was an ace in 2009, ranking fourth in baseball with 238 strikeouts. He's earning $11.5MM in '10, and can block deals to AL and NL West clubs. The Braves may extend him if they trade Lowe.
Felix Hernandez, Mariners. At the GM Meetings, Ms GM Jack Zduriencik said "Felix is our property," but wouldn't rule out a future trade. The expectation is that the Mariners will attempt to lock him up and might consider a trade if they fail. Hernandez will turn 24 in April.
Barry Zito, Giants. Zito is owed $83MM over the next four years, and has a full no-trade clause. He's pretty much untradeable, and aside from Vernon Wells' deal there's not much worse.
Bronson Arroyo, Reds. The durable Arroyo pitched below a 2.00 ERA over the season's last two months, dragging his '09 mark down to 3.84. He has $13MM and one year left on his contract, and presumably the Reds could dump him to cut costs.
Aaron Harang, Reds. Harang has been very hittable in recent years, but his strikeout and walk rates are still pretty good. He has $14.5MM and one year left on his deal, so he might be tougher to move than Arroyo.
Jeremy Guthrie, Orioles. Guthrie turns 31 in April, but he's still under team control through 2012. His numbers slipped last year, and the Orioles could move him to the NL and still get something decent in return.
Josh Johnson, Marlins. Arbitration-eligible Marlins always make the Trade Candidate posts. Johnson is the rare talent the Fish will actually try to lock up, though.
Jeff Suppan, Brewers. His ugly contract is wrapping up, with $14.5MM left for one year. The Brewers need starters, but not ones with a 1.08 K/BB ratio.
Roy Oswalt, Astros. Will the Astros fixture finally be traded this year? He has a full no-trade clause and is owed $33MM over the next two seasons. His value seems to be slipping as his salary increases. But if the Astros are trying to contend, they must keep Oswalt.
Carlos Zambrano, Cubs. A trade rumbling popped up in September, but was quickly shot down.
Gil Meche, Royals. Meche will earn $24MM over the next two seasons. Shoulder and back problems resulted in his first lousy Royals campaign this year.
Brian Bannister, Royals. The studious righty drew trade deadline interest from multiple clubs. Shoulder fatigue ended his season, during which he posted a 4.73 ERA in 154 innings. Like Guthrie, Bannister is under team control through 2012.
Brian Tallet, Blue Jays. The 32-year-old lefty moved in and out of the Jays rotation this year, and seems expendable. He's headed toward an arbitration raise if tendered a contract.
Dave Bush, Brewers. The Brewers are not in a position to shed pitching, but the arbitration-eligible Bush earned $4MM in '09. If the Brewers consider him a non-tender candidate, they could look to trade him first.
Brandon McCarthy, Rangers. Another arbitration-eligible righty, McCarthy has never pitched more than 101.6 big league innings in a season. The Rangers may decide to go with someone else for their fifth starter job.
Andy Sonnanstine, Rays. The soft-tossing righty couldn't hang on to his rotation spot this year despite 13 wins in '08. He lost his pinpoint control, but the NL has a way of making those things return. Bonus: he's not yet arbitration-eligible.
Oliver Perez, Mets. Just another ugly contract, with $24MM over two years remaining. He'll try to rebuild his value with a winter at the Athletes Performance Institute.
Carlos Silva, Mariners. Silva has $25MM remaining over two years, so he's probably unmovable.
Brandon Webb, Diamondbacks. Webb is one to watch as a possible summer trade candidate, should the D'Backs fall out of contention.
Jamie Moyer, Phillies. Moyer profiles as the Phillies' fifth starter, with Pedro Martinez and Brett Myers headed for free agency. The 47-year-old wasn't thrilled about being sent to the bullpen in August, and ESPN's Jayson Stark pondered his offseason trade prospects at that time. The $8MM he has coming next year would be the issue.
Chris Young, Padres. At $6.25MM in 2010, Young is the highest-paid Padre. If he can bounce back from exploratory shoulder surgery, he could be put on the block next summer.
Jake Westbrook, Indians. The Tribe surely wouldn't mind shedding Westbrook's $11MM. He had Tommy John surgery in June of '08 and hasn't pitched in the Majors since.

Full Story | Comments (173) | Categories: Trade Market

Comments

I hope the yanks go after either edwin jackson or king felix, yankees need a 4, but a 24 year old ace wouldn't hurt either.

Posted by: yanksrdashit | November 12, 2009 at 04:30 PM

Hopefully the Yankees can end up with Halladay and Felix Hernandez to round out their rotation.

Then we can sign Matt Holliday, make trades for Utley, and Ryan Braun, then sign Mauer in 2011.

We weren't good enough, and didn't spend enough money last year so we should make some big changes.

- a Yankee fan.

Posted by: ThinkBlue | November 12, 2009 at 04:34 PM

chill, i didnt say any of that other stuff, nor do i want most of it.

Posted by: yanksrdashit | November 12, 2009 at 04:35 PM

Might as well put Rick Porcello up there if since you have all the Tigers pitchers but come on there is no chance the Tigers trade Verlander

Posted by: Tigers/Reds fan | November 12, 2009 at 04:35 PM

I would love to see the Braves be able to trade Lowe so that they could keep a starting rotation of Hudson, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson, and Kawakami - with Medlen as an emergency starter. That would be one of the best rotations in baseball. However, unless the Braves can get Vazquez to extend his contract for 2 - 3 years (similar to Hudson) I think Vaz will be the one traded.

Posted by: BravesAllTheWay | November 12, 2009 at 04:36 PM

Twenty bucks says this is the last time we hear about Verlander on the trade market except for the possible "Team X called about Verlander's availability and were laughed at."

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 04:37 PM

No Nolasco?

Posted by: Sherman McCoy | November 12, 2009 at 04:37 PM

How do you think you are able to do that? -think blue

4 trades?

Posted by: beastOftheEast | November 12, 2009 at 04:37 PM

beastOftheEast, ThinkBlue was being sarcastic.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 04:38 PM

I like the Yankees trading for Arroyo, solid 5th guy. Lowe is good but the contract aint worthit. Arroyo has pitched in boston, has AL EAST experience, been in a big baseball city, has won a World Series. Hell be a good fit with the Yankees. I could easily see Nate Robinson coming to a deal with the Yankees for a deal for Curtis Granderson (only in my dreams maybe). Arroyo sounds good.

BTW Please can Yankee fans stop embarrasing themselves and keep demanding for Felix, Doc, etc. This is ridiculous, the Yankees have a 1 and 2 already. Their looking for back of the rotation help, not 5 aces.

Posted by: yankfan1 | November 12, 2009 at 04:39 PM

I think Edwin Jackson to the Dodgers is a strong possibility. He is young and he came up in their organization. With all the divorce mess, I cant see them doing a huge deal for Halladay or going after Lackey. But Edwin is a good one to look for.

Posted by: drinksyrah | November 12, 2009 at 04:40 PM

Andy Sonnanstine might be worth the effort.. Any ideas on what the Rays would want?

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 04:40 PM

@beastOftheEast.

I was mocking the greediness of Yankee fans.

they would probably say

"Hughes and Joba for Halladay"
Sign Holliday for 5 years, $100 million
"Gardner and Jackson for Braun"
"Cano and prospects for Utley"
Sign Mauer for 8 years, $300 million

Posted by: ThinkBlue | November 12, 2009 at 04:40 PM

If the tigers can get rid of one or two of those names then the others would be on that list.

Posted by: beastOftheEast | November 12, 2009 at 04:41 PM

Think Blue

Don't stereotype all Yankee fans as being greedy. I know there are many but the true baseball fans know what they are talking about.

Posted by: yankfan1 | November 12, 2009 at 04:42 PM

Derek Lowe has also pitched in the AL East with the Red Sox. I agree that Derek Lowe is over payed.

Posted by: Shipshape | November 12, 2009 at 04:43 PM

I can see it now....
a mets fan making a trade proposal for Roy Halladay AND Felix Hernandez with Murphy the CENTERPIECE of one of them. lmao.

Posted by: Darion | November 12, 2009 at 04:43 PM

ya i sounded greedy, but i think any baseball fan would like felix on their team.

Posted by: yanksrdashit | November 12, 2009 at 04:44 PM

@yankfan1

i'm married to a yankees fan. i live in new york city. i know yankee fans. they are greedy.

not three weeks removed from buying their 27th world series and fans are already looking to strengthen their rotation with another ace. it's insane.

Posted by: ThinkBlue | November 12, 2009 at 04:45 PM

yanksrdashit

I wasnt directing it towards you, just in general. I didnt even see your comment. I just know there are going to be posts like that. I know every team wants Felix. You didnt sound greedy, you said you wish, you didnt propose a ridiculous trade or end the comment with Yankees 2010 champs, lol.

Posted by: yankfan1 | November 12, 2009 at 04:47 PM

Thank you for not including Matt Cain on your list.

Posted by: nostocksjustbonds | November 12, 2009 at 04:49 PM

I wonder if the Phillies will offer Chase Utley and Ryan Howard for Barry Zito now? Could really give us depth in the left handed department in our starting pitching.

You can never have too much starting pitching, especially lefties.

Posted by: ChasenWerth | November 12, 2009 at 04:49 PM

I wouldn't mind having Felix on my team either. I am a Red Sox Fan. But I know realistically the chances that Felix gets traded are likely zero percent.

Posted by: Shipshape | November 12, 2009 at 04:50 PM

@beastOftheEast.

I was mocking the greediness of Yankee fans.

they would probably say

"Hughes and Joba for Halladay"
Sign Holliday for 5 years, $100 million
"Gardner and Jackson for Braun"
"Cano and prospects for Utley"
Sign Mauer for 8 years, $300 million

Posted by: ThinkBlue | November 12, 2009 at 04:40 PM

ThinkBlue, I hope you dont mind me also throwing my unbiased Red Sox versions of these trades out there.

@beastOftheEast.

I was mocking the greediness of Yankee fans.

they would probably say

"Jed Lowrie and Mike Lowell for Halladay"
Sign Holliday for 5 years, $100 million
"Bowden for Braun"
"Dice-k and prospects for Utley"
Sign Mauer for 8 years, $300 million

Posted by: sharx | November 12, 2009 at 04:50 PM

So let me get this straight. The Tigers pay guys a crap load of money, watch them fail, then trade them so that the can free up the finances to pay a bunch of other guys to do the same thing? Good call selling house, you guys will make prolly a year or two after the cubs do

Posted by: TheCrewOfBrew | November 12, 2009 at 04:51 PM

"I wonder if the Phillies will offer Chase Utley and Ryan Howard for Barry Zito now?"

That happened?

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 04:51 PM

ThinkBlue

I live in Brooklyn myself. I said yes in general they are, but those who are dont know too much of the game. most of those fans wore a Met cap three years ago and now went to the parade like they were die-hard fans. Now with the all the cheap shot "buying the world series". Regardless what you spend the players have to perform. It was a mixture of high priced free agents ( CC, Tex, AJ, Damon, Matsui) aging veterans ( Jeter, Mo, Pettite, Posada) and a new youth with Yankee routes (Joba, Hughes, Coke, Aceves, Cervelli, Cano, Robertson, Gardner, melky)

Posted by: yankfan1 | November 12, 2009 at 04:52 PM

Why is it whenever the Yankees start talking about trading players Robinson Cano's name always comes up. The guy is a really good player.

Posted by: jtd | November 12, 2009 at 04:53 PM

The phillies would be on the losing end of that deal start wearing purple. By the way who does Barry Zito pitch for?

Posted by: Shipshape | November 12, 2009 at 04:54 PM

Just rumors back when the Phils had Palanco and Thome...what a mistake that could have been...

Posted by: ChasenWerth | November 12, 2009 at 04:54 PM

Half the guys on this list are only on here because their current team doesnt wanna pay them. Sorry to say but if the team their on doesnt like their contract, not many other teams will either.

Posted by: TheCrewOfBrew | November 12, 2009 at 04:55 PM

One name that should be on this list that isnt is Josh Beckett. As much as I hate to admit it, if the Sox cannot iron out an extension for Beckett, I would not be surprised to see him flipped for some prospects that could be moved in another deal. I could only see this happening if the Sox agreed to a trade for a bonafide superstar in advance, however.

Posted by: Beckett_Lester | November 12, 2009 at 04:56 PM

I remember when the Phils offered Ryan Howard for Kris Benson and Littlefield said no thanks. I can't begin to express my hatred for that man.

Posted by: bucs_lose_again | November 12, 2009 at 04:58 PM

The only guys the Yanks would go for here is Halladay/Jackson/Verlander but I don't even no why he's on that list. Hernandez/Bannister/Oswalt/Webb/Maybe even bringing back Vazquez

Posted by: Yankeeboy11 | November 12, 2009 at 04:59 PM

Wonder if the Blue Jays will accept the Sox's offer of buchholz + prospects now?

Posted by: Richard Gilboy | November 12, 2009 at 04:59 PM

"The phillies would be on the losing end of that deal start wearing purple"

I was more asking if this happened several years like 2003 when Zito was considered something and Utley/Howard were waiting for a breakout. Weirder things have happened, like the Rays rejecting a Howard for Baldelli swap or a few rumors about Howard going to the Pirates for Kip Wells.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 04:59 PM

There is not a 100% guarantee that Joe Blanton will be back with the Phillies, so he could potentially be traded. He will get at least 6 million in arbitration and I could see the Phillies potentially traded, as has been speculated.

Posted by: Chris | November 12, 2009 at 05:05 PM

"i'm married to a yankees fan. i live in new york city. i know yankee fans. they are greedy."

Well, if you give a mouse a cookie... she's going to ask for a glass of milk... and a straw... and a napkin... and another ace... and a catcher... and a spare left-fielder...

Seriously, I can't blame Yankees fans for wanting -- nay, expecting -- every prime trade target or free agent, because they've been conditioned by ownership to believe that nothing is beyond the realm of possibility. I can't really fault ownership for pumping money back into the product, either. They have a cable network that they need to fill with soap stars. We don't gripe about the folks at Apple because they keep investing in R&D and churning out sleeker products, even though they had most of us at hello with the first-generation iPod. Nah, we say, "Ooooh, shiny!" and welcome the upgrade with itchy scroll-fingers.

I think we should lay the blame at the feet of the real culprit in all of this...

... Mark Teixeira. And his wife. They're enablers, and you should direct all your hatred at him accordingly. I know I do.

Posted by: DunkinDonuts | November 12, 2009 at 05:06 PM

I can't see Verlander being traded. If anything Detroit is counting the days until the last game of 2010 is played and they are free from the Bonderman, Robertson and Willis contracts so they can extend Verlander. The only way I see him being traded is if he wants to test the FA market.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | November 12, 2009 at 05:06 PM

"Well, if you give a mouse a cookie... she's going to ask for a glass of milk... and a straw... and a napkin... and another ace... and a catcher... and a spare left-fielder..."

Ha! That was hilarious dude.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 05:07 PM

"I think Edwin Jackson to the Dodgers is a strong possibility."
Give us George Sherrill and James McDonald.

Posted by: Tigerdog | November 12, 2009 at 05:07 PM

I do think the Dodgers will be active in the trade market this year. The fact that they want Edwin Jackson back is great. I always liked him and thought they got gypped. To get him for Sherrill would be great for both teams. You arent going to get many closers for 5M on the trade market and you arent going to get a #3(at least) for 5M on the FA market. Jackson came up with many of the Dodger prospects that are now MLB players and will fit right in.

Also, I do think they could pull of a bigger trade. I dont know if it would be for power or pitching. They have a chance at Halladay, Felix, Agon or Uggla if they become available, IMO...

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | November 12, 2009 at 05:14 PM

Regarding the Utley/Howard for Zito. Remember, Zito was a top 3 pitcher in baseball in 03, and Utley and Howard were just good prospects. Also, the Phils had Thome at 1B and didnt know which was going to be the 1B of the future....

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | November 12, 2009 at 05:15 PM

Why are we talking about the Yankees when it's the Trade market?_?

I haven't seen a meaningful trade for the Yankees for a while(A-rod being a the last good one based on how craptacular Soriano has looked.)

If AA will take a package based around Montero, Jackson, McAllister, (random high upside guy) then we get Halladay, if not Cash isn't going to panic. I could see him sweetening to make sure the Red sox don't get him but with Hughes & Chamberlain likely to hold down #4,5 in the rotation for the next 7+Years he's in a beautiful spot.

C.C
Halladay
Burnett
Hughes
Chamberlain

Does have a nice look to it tho.

Posted by: Gleb | November 12, 2009 at 05:17 PM

@Tigerdog

You may get Sherrill or McDonald, but not both.

Posted by: bferb | November 12, 2009 at 05:17 PM

"I think Edwin Jackson to the Dodgers is a strong possibility."
Give us George Sherrill and James McDonald."

I think the Tigers start with that and they haggle. It ends with something like Sherrill and a B prospect...

Regarding Yankee fans. Many dont expect these dumb trades. However, it seems like most do because 85% of the Yankee fans posting trade proposals think that Halladay, Mauer and Felix will be on the team by 2011...

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | November 12, 2009 at 05:18 PM

So if the mariners can't sign felix to an extension will he be traded this offseason? How soon before hes traded? (thats if they do trade him)

Posted by: harrison | November 12, 2009 at 05:18 PM

I would love the mets to try to get both edwin jackson and javier vazquez. for jackson idk a trade of maine/or pelfray and a mid minor leaguer. for vasquez the braves wont trade him nor nothing how about maine/pelfray and ferandez for him?.. the mets need pitching all these mets fans wants power but good pitching ALWAYS beats good hitting!

Posted by: will | November 12, 2009 at 05:23 PM

I'd be perfectly fine with giving up Sherrill and McDonald for Jackson.

Posted by: cheba63 | November 12, 2009 at 05:24 PM

"I think the Tigers start with that and they haggle. It ends with something like Sherrill and a B prospect..."
No deal. Either we get a major league ready starting pitcher or we'll keep EJ.

Posted by: Tigerdog | November 12, 2009 at 05:26 PM

Hopefully the Yankees can end up with Halladay and Felix Hernandez to round out their rotation.

Then we can sign Matt Holliday, make trades for Utley, and Ryan Braun, then sign Mauer in 2011.

We weren't good enough, and didn't spend enough money last year so we should make some big changes.

- a Yankee fan.

Posted by: ThinkBlue | November 12, 2009 at 04:34 PM

Nah, they'll trade for Mauer this year and sign him to a 25 year 600MM contract to eliminate all potential competition... Kei Igawa should nailer down...
Felix and Halladay won't be enough... They won't have their 10th starter in case the other 12 go down... They might have to stop being so damn cheap and actually spend a few bucks... CC, Burnett, Felix, Pettitte, Halladay, Joba, they'll sign Lackey, buy Strasburg alah the Babe, and then just hope that they can remain healthy... It's risky, but it's a chance they might have to take...

Cross your fingers Yankees fans, it's gonna be a rough road ahead...

Posted by: allabouthephils | November 12, 2009 at 05:28 PM

I'm asking honestly ... if I'm the Yankees why wouldn't I do this in the off-season:

-- Sign Cameron to play CF
-- Sign Holliday to play LF
-- Sign Lackey as a #2
-- Let Matsui and Damon walk

Your OF defense improves dramatically. Your offense adds another stud bat in Holliday. You keep your DH spot open so guys can rotate in for breaks. You get a solid #2 behind CC. You also don't block Jackson since Cameron comes on a 2/20 type deal.

Hughes and Joba split time between the bullpen and rotation while you figure out which one will stick. The one that doesn't is groomed to take over for Mo when he retires.

Most importantly you don't need to trade away talent for a starter. You buy the best and hold onto your young talent.

Posted by: bjsguess | November 12, 2009 at 05:29 PM

"Regarding the Utley/Howard for Zito. Remember, Zito was a top 3 pitcher in baseball in 03, and Utley and Howard were just good prospects."

Exactly why I was asking. If it was a joke or the truth.

"So if the mariners can't sign felix to an extension will he be traded this offseason?"

Depends. If the Mariners make an offer like $90M/6yrs and they think that's fair and Felix can't stop laughing, then talks end. But if they're close then they'll simply revisit talks later. I'd be very excited if Felix hits the market, but realisitically the Mariners have the money for Felix no matter what. With any luck for them, he'll simply want CC's contract.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 05:30 PM

lmfao i just love how all you guys hate on the yankees!!! you know you guys are right the yankees get the best players avaiable.. dont get upset because you team will not do the same for you.

Posted by: will | November 12, 2009 at 05:31 PM

What's wrong with being greedy? We want the best players for our team. Isn't the point of the game to win? Or is it to stay humble and grounded? Am I missing something here?

Plus...we're FANS, and generally, all fans want the best for their specific team. Nobody wants their team's GM to say "No thanks, we don't want to sound greedy, so we'll take the ninth ranked prospect rather than your top ranked prospect. Have a nice day =) xoxo"

C'mon man, get real!

Posted by: East Coast Bias | November 12, 2009 at 05:33 PM

Nah, they'll trade for Mauer this year and sign him to a 25 year 600MM contract to eliminate all potential competition... Kei Igawa should nailer down...

Posted by: allabouthephils | November 12, 2009 at 05:28 PM

This made me laugh hard lol.

Posted by: sharx | November 12, 2009 at 05:35 PM

I was reading and omar minaya should try this.

Trade luis castillo for chris synder
Trade for brandon phillips which can't be to much( eat his contract )
Sign john lackey
Sign chone figgins
Sign delgado with incentives

Ss jose reyes
Lf chone figgins
Cf carlos beltran
3b david wright
2b brandon phillips
1b carlos delgado
Rf jeff francoeur
C chris snyder

1 johan santana
2 john lackey
3 mike pelfrey
4 john maine
5 oliver perez

I really like that lineup and the rotation I can live with thoughts?

Posted by: beastOftheEast | November 12, 2009 at 05:36 PM

I'd be perfectly fine with giving up Sherrill and McDonald for Jackson."

""I think the Tigers start with that and they haggle. It ends with something like Sherrill and a B prospect..."
No deal. Either we get a major league ready starting pitcher or we'll keep EJ."

There are a few reasons why most wouldnt. One, he was really good in relief for us last yr. He can step into the rotation and be the #5.

2nd, he is our top MLB ready prospect right now. Theres no reason to give him and a closer(on most teams) for EJack.

3rd, he'd be a bigger piece in a trade for Uggla/JJ/Felix/Halladay, if we make such a deal. Once again, no need to include him in a deal where he isnt neccesary.

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | November 12, 2009 at 05:37 PM

Absolutely not...

You're 100% right...

The Yankees do what every team should do, but can't... It's a marketing problem that seemingly can't be solved...

When one team can over spend so drastically that they can invest more in one player than one team will invest in total payroll for 5 years, there is a problem with that...

It has nothing to do with your teams willingness to compete, a desire to spend, or the Steinbrenners money... It's location and marketing... Others can't draw the national TV markets that you can so every other team just hopes to draw the same schedule as you to get the attention...

It's really not a just system... It's fair for NY fans, but from a business standpoint and a competitive standpoint, it's not...

Posted by: allabouthephils | November 12, 2009 at 05:41 PM

"I think the Tigers start with that and they haggle. It ends with something like Sherrill and a B prospect..."
No deal. Either we get a major league ready starting pitcher or we'll keep EJ.

Posted by: Tigerdog | November 12, 2009 at 05:26 PM"

Yeah pretty sure Sherrill
and McDonald is way too much.

McDonald needs to given the 5th starter role again in 2010. If he fails then its the pen for life.

Broxton/Kuo/Sherrill

Why mess with that?

For Edwin Jackson?

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 05:41 PM

"2nd, he is our top MLB ready prospect right now."

If you're talking about McDonald I gotta ask what you think he'll become? I read a lot of reports about a lot of prospects and the ones I remember about McDonald basically gave a consensus that his likely outcome is good #4 arm.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 05:41 PM

"But I know realistically the chances that Felix gets traded are likely zero percent."

Thank you. About time someone on here realizes this. In fact, take the likely out and it's perfect. Face it all....Felix is an M. Both sides want an extension. The only question is how long and for how much. So sick of these stupid never-gonna-happen felix trades....quit wasting your time/life!

Posted by: willardthegreat | November 12, 2009 at 05:41 PM

Honestly, everyone rags on Cincinnati and their two "bad contracts" in Arroyo and Harang, but they are far, far, far from the worst in this list. I'd put them both at the top 1/3 in value on this list.

Posted by: jbibbali | November 12, 2009 at 05:45 PM

"Trade for brandon phillips which can't be to much( eat his contract )"

The man is one of the best second basemen to play the game, it's going to cost the Mets...trust me. The Reds have a solid young team...they could be a threat next year or the following. Needless to say, they won't be trading Phillips away for B prospects.

Posted by: ChasenWerth | November 12, 2009 at 05:45 PM

But I know realistically the chances that Felix gets traded are likely zero percent."

Posted by: willardthegreat | November 12, 2009 at 05:41 PM

You never know...

Martinez for DeShields...
Liriano, Nathan, Bonser for Pierzynski...

If anyone comes close to the Bedard deal, you better believe the M's will deal him... They'd be stupid not to...

Posted by: allabouthephils | November 12, 2009 at 05:45 PM

"I think Edwin Jackson to the Dodgers is a strong possibility."
Give us George Sherrill and James McDonald."

I think the Tigers start with that and they haggle. It ends with something like Sherrill and a B prospect...

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | November 12, 2009 at 05:18 PM

I wouldn't be all that opposed to sending Sherrill and Mcdonald for Jackson, but I'd rather give up something like:

Sherill and Lindblom

for

Jackson

Or Sherrill and Webster for Jackson. Guys I wouldn't trade for Jackson (along with Sherill, or maybe even at all) are Withrow, Martin, Elbert, Gordon, De Jesus, Lambo, Russell, Eovaldi, Miller, Robinson, Gould and most likely Paul.

Posted by: Ivdown | November 12, 2009 at 05:47 PM

""So if the mariners can't sign felix to an extension will he be traded this offseason?"

First of all, talks wouldn't simply end because one side lowballs the other. This happens all the time in baseball. It's called beginning negotiation. The rest is true... But the M's won;t lowball him, so everyone can just put that to rest.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes on this site.

Posted by: willardthegreat | November 12, 2009 at 05:47 PM

Whats worth more? a 3/4 starter or a closer?

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 05:48 PM

i would like the redsox to try and trade for joey votto by offering a good deal and asking for bronson arroyo. votto is going to get expensive fast and arroyo would save the reds 13 million.

Posted by: joe | November 12, 2009 at 05:48 PM

I think I've been a reader/poster here for about a year now. I think it's about time I learn to stop reacting to some of the crap here and just let it go. Maybe I should just accept the fact that people will a) Discredit anything the Yanks do because all we do is "buy championships". b) Players w/ no mlb resume will be OVERvalued c) Any Yankee rookies will be considered overhyped (as if the Yanks are hiring PR firms to promote their talent). We'll just forget about Baseball America, Prospectus, USA Today, Sporting News because obviously they are all on the Yankee payroll. d) Some Yankee fans will assume we can get anybody and everybody e) Any move to improve the team will be looked at as the "Evil Empire at it again". Simply because we WON a WS this year we should just sit back and NOT try to improve upon last years team OR replace players who might be injured (Wang) or departing (Pettite, Damon or Matsui).

Wow....I think I can enjoy my time here and remain sane if I just follow these simple rules. My dad once told me "Son, never argue with an idiot in public". I asked "Why Dad"? He responded, "Because soon passerbys won't be able to tell which one of you is the idiot and which one isn't". He also, told me "Son if you flick it more than twice then you're playing with it". But that's for another time and place.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | November 12, 2009 at 05:50 PM

Yeah pretty sure Sherrill
and McDonald is way too much.

McDonald needs to given the 5th starter role again in 2010. If he fails then its the pen for life.

Broxton/Kuo/Sherrill

Why mess with that?

For Edwin Jackson?

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 05:41 PM

Now that I think about it Mcdonald and Sherrill would be too much to give.

I'd really like to just go with Sherrill and 2 low prospects to get Jackson.

Honestly, I'm not a big Sherrill fan, and I think he's overrated and did better than his skill level in 2009. I would love to see him shipped off for a good young starter like Jackson.

Posted by: Ivdown | November 12, 2009 at 05:50 PM

Will beastoftheeast please stop posting

Posted by: Chris | November 12, 2009 at 05:51 PM

Jackson is a really good candidate to regress.

High walks, lots of hits, not a huge strike out pitcher.. History of being a.k.a teh suck..

How much service time does he have?

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 05:52 PM

Whats worth more? a 3/4 starter or a closer?

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 05:48 PM

Jackson was a top prospect at one point, and the Dodgers threw him to the wolves at age 21 in the majors and he failed, so he was shipped off (for crap). The last 2 seasons have shown Jackson really improving and what I loved best about his 2009 season was the fact that he showed the ability to strike people out. Though his ks/9 is only just under 7, he still struck out 161 in just over 200 innings.

I would LOVE to have him as our 3rd starter.

1. Billingsley
2. Kershaw
3. Jackson
4. Kuroda
5. Mcdonald/Elbert

That would mean 4/5 of our rotation is home grown (I'd still consider Jackson because he came out of our system) and really good (great in a couple cases).

Come on Ned, let's make up for the stupid mistake of trading him in the first place.

Posted by: Ivdown | November 12, 2009 at 05:55 PM

@YanksFanSince78

A) as long as the Yankees keep spending money like it's water and outbidding every other team on top tier free agents, baseball fans will believe that they buy championships

B) I agree

C) Any Yankee rookies will be considered overhyped as long as Yankee fans continue to listen to Michael Kay blow smoke up said rookie's asses throughout the entire season

D) You can. An unlimited budget, a team of all-stars to surround you, the spotlight of NYC - it's not that hard to bring people in.

E) Wang only did bad thigns for you this year and you still won the WS. why replace him? Why can't your outfield be Gardner/Swisher/Cabrera? Is the prospect of ONLY having A-Rod, Tex, Jeter, and Posada in your lineup not good enough? Why can't Hughes replace Joba in the rotation? Not good enough for you?

Posted by: ThinkBlue | November 12, 2009 at 05:58 PM

Regarding the proposed Utley trade - I think we might have our facts a bit off.

The proposed deal was Utley and Hamels for Mark Mulder, during (I believe) the 2004 trade deadline.

Obviously it sounds insane now, seeing how Utley and Hamels have panned out - but yes, at the time Utley was an unknown commodity, and many doubted he would ever be able to play adequate defense at 2nd. Hamels as well had question marks, largely due to his frame and a major arm injury during high school.

Posted by: jessamynn | November 12, 2009 at 06:01 PM

"You never know...

Martinez for DeShields...
Liriano, Nathan, Bonser for Pierzynski...

If anyone comes close to the Bedard deal, you better believe the M's will deal him... They'd be stupid not to..."
Are you kidding me? These trades are nowhere near similar. At the time, Pierzynski was the steal of that trade. Nathan was a throw-in (in fact, this very trade was just highlighted in last two weeks by this site). Pedro had upside then, but DeShields was sought after BY montreal, not the other way around.
Learn your history before you manipulate others into believe false statements.
Because these are two trade scenarios that have absolutely nothing to do with Felix's situation, they therefore also hold ZERO credence.
And I would not take what we gave up for Bedard for Felix. Craziness.

Posted by: willardthegreat | November 12, 2009 at 06:02 PM

"Wonder if the Blue Jays will accept the Sox's offer of buchholz + prospects now?"

We won't have an opportunity to find out. After the Jays rejected the offer, Buchholz pitched nearly as well as Halladay, for about $12m/year less. He's seven years younger and he doesn't have just one year of control remaining.

The Jays blew their chance.

Posted by: Little Bear | November 12, 2009 at 06:02 PM

The Yanks finally got rid of Pavano's contract last year, Mussina retired and Pettite's quality of play was in question last year due to a poor 2nd half. The Yanks used all of the money from Pavano ($11 mil), Mussina ($11 mil) and part of Pettite's salary ($16 mil) and used it to get Sabathia and AJ. Then they allowed Abreu ($16 mil) and Giambi ($22 mil) to walk and used half of that to sign Tex and trade for Swisher. BIG DEAL. Are we not allowed to reuse salary? I could understand if the payroll continued to reach MORE absurd levels and get around $250 mil but that's not going to happen. Yanks are NOT looking to field a rotaion of Halladay, CC, Lee, Felix and AJ. BUT if they have an opportunity to solidify another spot with the likes of Halladay, then so what? Pettite will not pitch forever. The Yanks will stop trying to improve their team when Boston, Los Angeles, Tampa, Philadelphia and others stop trying as well. I am personally against the payroll going back above the $210 mark myself but I have no problem with them using their money to sign better quality players like they did last year. What they should do is AVOID throwing money at lack luster stars looking for ELITE level contracts. Play it safe this year. If Halladay can be acquired w/o giving up the farm or Joba AND Hughes then great. If not then keep what we have and hope that Lee or Halladay are availabe next year.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | November 12, 2009 at 06:03 PM

Yes Jackson was thrown to the wolves, but not by Ned Colleti, that was our previous GM. We are now trying to build from within with a core group of young players, to be good for more than 5 years, not 1. I would love to trade Sherril for Jackson. And I dont agree that Jackson is going to regress, he is young and he will actually improve with more experience. He came up through our system with all these guys allready. So he would be a great fit, and much cheaper than a Lackey, or mortgaging the future for Halladay. Let the Yankees go for those guys.

Posted by: drinksyrah | November 12, 2009 at 06:03 PM

To: thinkblue

the reason why the yankees can not have gardner/swisher/cabrera in the outfield is because they are not the pirates.

The yankees are looking to make a post season run every year and with a outfield of gardner/swisher/cabrera that run is not going to happen.

the reason why we won the ws was because we had great pitching in cc. if the yankees bring back and he is pitching like he was last year the yanks will be losing games and money. the yankees and only the yankees know what is going on with wang and maybe thats why the yankees never signed him to a long term deal when he won 19 back to back. maybe the yankees knew he was going to break down.

Posted by: will | November 12, 2009 at 06:06 PM

I have to say as a Cub fan, who has watched my team break my heart over and over. I admire the way the yankees go for whoever they want ! No it doesn't add up to a championship every year, but a fan of the yanks has to appreciate that their team is always in on the top FA

Posted by: Mr.WB | November 12, 2009 at 06:06 PM

He is a #3 guy. I said top prospect because he is the top thats MLB ready, not the whole system. If he struggles again this year, I think he should try relief full time, as he was really good for most of the year out of the pen.

"
Sherill and Lindblom

for

Jackson

PLEASE no. 2 closers for Jackson? If this was 06, maybe. But now, no. Lindblom will be in the pen next year, and likely pitch in the later innings. Sherrill showed how good he could be, with a .6 ERA in LA during the reg season.

I agree with the list that shouldnt be traded at all, if possible.

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | November 12, 2009 at 06:07 PM

"E) Wang only did bad thigns for you this year and you still won the WS. why replace him? Why can't your outfield be Gardner/Swisher/Cabrera? Is the prospect of ONLY having A-Rod, Tex, Jeter, and Posada in your lineup not good enough? Why can't Hughes replace Joba in the rotation? Not good enough for you? "

In a word... No.

Maybe it's a New York mentality, but succumbing to mediocrity is not in the city's blood. Take that as whatever you want.

Posted by: East Coast Bias | November 12, 2009 at 06:08 PM

The Yankees spend money and bring in new talent because they have to continue to bring a new product to the field...

If the Yankees had a national television contract on top of owning their own network, were charging $2500 for luxury boxes, had the largest international fanbase in baseball and were fielding a team that had a payroll of 75MM and were a bunch of toolsy promising rookies like the Marlins, New York would riot...

New York has to field the team they do because they have to market their team... If they don't market their team, they won't continue to get the advertising dollars through YES...

I understand why... It doesn't make it right or fair to the rest of the league, but the Yankees have put themselves in this position and deserve to reap the benefits...

Posted by: allabouthephils | November 12, 2009 at 06:08 PM

"I said top prospect because he is the top thats MLB ready, not the whole system."

Alright, I misunderstood your position. Thanks for the clarification.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 06:09 PM

"I haven't seen a meaningful trade for the Yankees for a while(A-rod being a the last good one based on how craptacular Soriano has looked."

Wilson betemit and scrapes for Swisher? That worked out, great trade for Cashman.

Beastoftheeast: eating Phillips contract will not get him to queens cheaply. Might as well deal for Halladay at that point because of the prospects it would cost. If the mets took on all of Arroyo or Harangs contract, it may reduce the amount of prospects a bit, but still a hefty price tag in terms of talent.

Posted by: MrMet | November 12, 2009 at 06:12 PM

Verlander on this list is just dumb. it is obvious porcello , verlander and cabrera are the building blocks. if the tigers can trade inge and guillen for nothing and get a good return for granderson and jackson say a major league ready SS and a blue chip pitcher they can toss this year out and work in the rookies. casper wells and wilkin ramirez look like legit major leaugers. 2011 comes around and they can load up again. From the sounds of things that is what dombrowski is going to do. They have some interesting pitchers oliver , turner & crosby that may be ready to go in 2011. I wouldn't be surprised to see crosby making the rotation this year. in the end no way in hell are tigers going to compete this year so you might as well get rid of the toxic contracts by giving these players away and eating half. Save the money for next year and give Ilitch his title before the guy dies.

Posted by: rbeezy14 | November 12, 2009 at 06:12 PM

"Wonder if the Blue Jays will accept the Sox's offer of buchholz + prospects now?"

The Jays blew their chance.

Posted by: Little Bear | November 12, 2009 at 06:02 PM

LOL

Buchholz pitched nearly as well as Halladay? Wow that's an idiotic statement.

Buchholz pitched to a 7-4 record (means nothing) 4.21 ERA 68 ks in 92 innings with 36 walks and he allowed 13 hr and 91 hits.

How is that anything close to Hallday?

Red Sox fans annoy the crap out of me.

Posted by: Ivdown | November 12, 2009 at 06:14 PM

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/ned-colletti-gm.html

drinks, it was his 2nd trade of his career as the Dodgers GM. follow the link and open the spread sheet..

SWP, no problem. I realized when I reread it later it was a little confusing...

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | November 12, 2009 at 06:16 PM

I much rather sign Harden/Bedard and deal with DL trips then weaken the best pen in the NL.

Garland under 6-7 million is a good deal, its a lot of money still but he takes his turn and puts up innings..

The pen was abused by Joe "no matter what the score is, I will use the pen" Torre. As soon as Mannywood is over make sure Torre is gone too.

Kershaw
Kuroda
Bills
Harden/Bedard/Duchscherer
Garland/McDonald/Stults

Broxton
Kuo
Sherrill
Wade??
Elbert
Belisario
Troncoso

Lindblom waiting in AAA

That would be a good pitching staff.. and with a offense that should only improve

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 06:17 PM

Posted by: drinksyrah | November 12, 2009 at 06:03 PM

I never said Ned was the one who brought him up, because I believe that was in 04 and/or 05 where he got some playing time on the Dodgers. Ned was just the one who gave him away for 2 crappy relievers :(

The only way i'd like to get Jackson is to trade Sherrill plus low prospects away for him, and no one in our top 15 prospects (now that I think of it again, lol, we would need Lindblom for the bp if we traded Sherrill).

Posted by: Ivdown | November 12, 2009 at 06:17 PM

If only having a payroll of $160 million (assuming you don't add anyone) leads to mediocrity that's saying something.

Newsflash - you don't have to have the highest paid player at EVERY position.

Then again, I'm slowly becoming a Yankee fan. I love the liberation of knowing that I can get whatever player I want, whenever I want him. Like I said earlier - sign Cameron, Lackey, and Holliday and prepare for yet another ring.

Posted by: bjsguess | November 12, 2009 at 06:18 PM

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/02/ned-colletti-gm.html

drinks, it was his 2nd trade of his career as the Dodgers GM. follow the link and open the spread sheet..

SWP, no problem. I realized when I reread it later it was a little confusing...

Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | November 12, 2009 at 06:16 PM

Without looking, wasn't Ned's first deal was the Milton for Ethier trade?

One of the only good things he had done until mid 08.

Posted by: Ivdown | November 12, 2009 at 06:20 PM

Are you kidding me? These trades are nowhere near similar. At the time, Pierzynski was the steal of that trade. Nathan was a throw-in (in fact, this very trade was just highlighted in last two weeks by this site). Pedro had upside then, but DeShields was sought after BY montreal, not the other way around.
Learn your history before you manipulate others into believe false statements.
Because these are two trade scenarios that have absolutely nothing to do with Felix's situation, they therefore also hold ZERO credence.
And I would not take what we gave up for Bedard for Felix. Craziness.

Posted by: willardthegreat | November 12, 2009 at 06:02 PM

I was just stating that trades happen all the time... I wasn't comparing those deals to a potential Felix deal...

If you wouldn't take that deal, you don't know much about ball my friend... Adam Jones, Sherrill, Tillman ( outside of Jones the gem of the deal ), Mickolio, and Butler... I don't know how they could possibly reject an offer like that...

Posted by: allabouthephils | November 12, 2009 at 06:20 PM

"Red Sox fans annoy the crap out of me. "

Every freaking fan base has a group that makes silly statements about their prospects or youthful players. Don't go acting like it's just Sox fans.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 12, 2009 at 06:24 PM

This is what I'm reading from Yankee defenders.

1. the yankees don't buy championships, they just spend more money than any other team so they have the best available players and can win championships.

2. new yorkers expect them to win, so it's ok to buy championships.

3. a team with CC Sabbathia, AJ Burnett, Mariano Rivera, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Texiera, and Jorge Posada is mediocre.

4. $200 million this year wasn't too much, because it was the same as they spent last year

5. they would never go above $200 million (until they sign Mauer next year)

Posted by: ThinkBlue | November 12, 2009 at 06:24 PM

This is really getting old I come to this website for trade rumors, not some guy saying Felix is on the market cause hes not. Maybe in 7 years but i doubt it.

Posted by: iloveWa | November 12, 2009 at 06:25 PM

I much rather sign Harden/Bedard and deal with DL trips then weaken the best pen in the NL.

Garland under 6-7 million is a good deal, its a lot of money still but he takes his turn and puts up innings..

The pen was abused by Joe "no matter what the score is, I will use the pen" Torre. As soon as Mannywood is over make sure Torre is gone too.

Kershaw
Kuroda
Bills
Harden/Bedard/Duchscherer
Garland/McDonald/Stults

Broxton
Kuo
Sherrill
Wade??
Elbert
Belisario
Troncoso

Lindblom waiting in AAA

That would be a good pitching staff.. and with a offense that should only improve

Posted by: 661dodgerblue | November 12, 2009 at 06:17 PM

Sherrill in my mind is overrated, and won't pitch in 2010 like he did in 2009 for the Dodgers, it just won't happen.

What I would like to see happen is trade Sherrill plus low prospects for Jackson, then sign one of Harden or Bedard for a 1 year flyer, resign Belasario and Weaver, use both Mcdonald and Elbert in the bullpen.

1. Billingsley
2. Kershaw
3. Harden/Bedard
4. Jackson
5. Kuroda

CP. Broxton
SU. Kuo
MRP. Belasario
MRP. Troncoso
MRP. Elbert
LRP. Mcdonald
LRP. Weaver

Then if we really need to, and we only want 4 bench players on offense, we could bring up Lindblom.

Posted by: Ivdown | November 12, 2009 at 06:25 PM

"If you wouldn't take that deal, you don't know much about ball my friend... Adam Jones, Sherrill, Tillman ( outside of Jones the gem of the deal ), Mickolio, and Butler... I don't know how they could possibly reject an offer like that..."
Uh...It'd be nice, but until Tillman pans out in the bigs, then I'm OK with Felix, a proven ace who is only 2 years older than Tillman. Tillman has the potential. Felix already has the ability. Big difference...or have you forgotten all about Ryan Anderson, et al?
Now, I agree we were extremely stupid to give up that haul in the first place. But I think with where our team is now, we'd be even dumber to mortgage felix against that.

Posted by: willardthegreat | November 12, 2009 at 06:29 PM

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