Twins Rumors: Pavano, Cabrera, Punto

1. span cf
2. cabrera 2b
3. mauer c
4. morneau 1b
5. cuddyer rf
6. kubel dh
7. young lf
8. hardy ss
9. punto 3b

not so bad. get another starting pitcher though!

Hardy should definitely bat second or seventh in that lineup, but agreed Rootman... not a bad looking lineup.

I question Cabrera at second base though. He hasn't played there since 1998, and his defense at SS this past season was terrible.

I don't mind the idea of putting Punto at third base - it's actually his best defensive position - but I'd prefer a better option at second base if that were the case.

Span
Felipe Lopez
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Hardy
Young
Punto

Looks much better. Either that, or if we're gonna go through terrible defense at second base, splurge for Dan Uggla and at least get some OBP and power numbers to go along with it.

I have a bad feeling about putting Cabrera at 2b. Id be more comfortable signing a FA third baseman (Beltre, Atkins, Derosa if the Phils dont end up signing him) and playing Punto at 2b.

At 2b, it is more than excusable for Punto to have a substandard bat. Putting Punto at 3b relegates a useful offensive position to little to no offensive output. Also, it seems that Punto plays a better 2b than 3b defensively.

Felipe Lopez is probably the best FA fit outside of Figgins for the Twins positional needs and need for a number 2 hitter

please god, don't let bill smith re-sign cabrera. at any position on the left side of the diamond. if you have to stick with punto, at least sign a free agent 3b with solid defense and some pop. i can't take an entire season of o-cab and punto manning the infield.

I'm up in the air on this one. Not a big fan of orlando at 2nd he had how many errors at shortstop last year? He is a gold glove winner in the past but seems his d is slipping. And we need to figure something out about punto, don't get me wrong i love the guy his defense is amazing but his bat is so sparatic we need to get someone in there to put up consistant numbers day in and day out. But if he could bat atleast .250 id happy with him at second. Further I dont even need to bring it up that we have a need for a 3rd baseman have for years, hopefully this year we actually bring in someone dependably to fill the need, its getting anoying.

Lopez would be the best fit. We really need a #2 hitter and I don't think thats Cabrera. Lopez>Beltre and fits Twins style much better.

It's fine to have someone with a weak bat at third base with a strong lineup. Look at the Phillies and Pedro Feliz.

The Twins can't afford to have a $4.25MM bench player this season, I don't think. Nick Punto makes too much money to sit, and he's Ron Gardenhire's favorite player anyway. He's going to play, whether it's the smart decision or not.

Felipe Lopez does indeed make great sense - a lot more than Cabrera. Here's hoping, but Gardenhire really liked Cabrera and he absolutely loved playing in Minnesota... if you follow the Twins closely, it's pretty obvious that Gardenhire gets what he wants when he wants it.

Hearing this news, I wouldn't be surprised to see Cabrera re-signed at all. I'd still prefer Harden over Pavano, though realistically, who wouldn't?

I would be ok with O-CAB at 2b, that way you can bring Valencia up slowly and have Punto at 3b. I think the Twins have options and don't have to rush now that they went out and got Hardy, I would like them to sign a pitcher first then worry about the infield.

Noooo Cabrera. Just let him go. Get the picks. It's not worth it.

And besides, Mauer is probably gonna be batting second.

1 - Span, CF
2 - Mauer, C
3 - Cuddyer, RF
4 - Morneau, 1B
5 - Kubel, DH
6 - Crede, 3B
7 - Hardy, SS
8 - Young, LF
9 - Punto, 2B

... is what I'd like to see.

"Noooo Cabrera. Just let him go. Get the picks. It's not worth it."

We won't get any picks. Cabrera has a clause in his contract that says he can't be offered arbitration if he's a Type A free agent.

This isn't really too shabby. I think both Cabrera and Pavano would be willing to take small salary breaks in order to stay with Minnesota, where they seemed to really enjoy themselves. That saves money, which is almost always a good thing.

I'd rather see Cabrera adjust to third and leave Punto at second -- seems like it makes more sense from a defensive standpoint, especially considering how very good Hardy is at SS. I'm guessing it's all going to depend on Cabrera's price versus Crede's.

Also, Pavano hates the Yankees, and in my book that's worth lots.

The obvious answer regarding what to do about the #2 spot is simply to shift everyone up a notch and have the league's best OBP guy in the 2 position.

Span
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Young
Hardy
"NewGuy"
Punto

Unfortunately, it's not so obvious to Gardy who seems intent on slotting in lousy OBP infielders at the #2 spot to ensure there's always at least 1 out before his best hitters come up.

It will all come down to money. Cabrera should be cheaper than Beltre, but not too much cheaper (if any) than Felipe Lopez, and Lopez is younger (29, the prime of his career). Here is to hoping it is Lopez over Cabrera.

Agreed, Jim. But Gardenhire is set in his ways and sticks to them for better or worse (usually worse).

I'm fine with any of these options:

-Beltre at 3B, Punto at 2B
-Glaus at 3B, Punto at 2B
-Crede at 3B, Punto at 2B
-Punto at 3B, Lopez at 2B

I really don't want to see the Twins bring back Cabrera. Gardenhire will bat him second for some bizarre reason, and you're asking a player on a defensive decline to switch positions as well. There's just no real sense to it other than that Gardenhire liked him.

"And besides, Mauer is probably gonna be batting second."

What are you basing that off of? Are you familiar at all with Gardenhire/The Twins?

"Lopez can play 3rd and has"

Yes, but he has only started 8 games there since 2004.

"I don't understand the appeal of Punto as an outsider."

I've been a Twins fan since I was three years old, and I still can't understand his appeal. At this point though, if he's getting paid $4MM, he should start. His option should be declined, and we should be rid of him. (Please?)

"He couldn't hit water if he fell out of a friggin' boat. Is his defense really that good?"

Unfortunately, his range is pretty outstanding, yeah. He makes a lot of bonehead errors though by trying to make routine plays look spectacular or by making wild, ill-advised throws when there's no play and he'd be better off just putting the ball in his pocket.

I think Justin Morneau is pretty underrated defensively, simply because of the number of errors he saves the rest of our infield from by picking short hops. Guess all those years as a goalie in hockey carried over to baseball. :)

He was a 9.4 Uzr last year at 2B and in 2007 when he played 108 games at 3B it was 23.8 so with the glove he is the real deal and he has pictures of Gardy and the Twins front office we all know it. I think the Twins should concentrate on pitching first before the infield and I hope they do.

Once again I agree with MVP.

"I'm fine with any of these options:

-Beltre at 3B, Punto at 2B
-Glaus at 3B, Punto at 2B
-Crede at 3B, Punto at 2B
-Punto at 3B, Lopez at 2B"

Span
Uggla
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddy
Kubel
Hardy
Young
Punto

Get Uggla. 350-360 OBP every year and 25-30 HR. Great in the No.2 Spot.

Why Punt(o) offense at third if you don't have to?Get rid of OCab,get a 2b and 3b and let Punto be the first guy off of the banch.

Anybody know if there's something going on with O-Cab that we don't know about?

He's got a Kenny Lofton thing going on, it seems. 6 teams in the last 5 years but he's still relatively young and productive. Is this a product of personality or just bad luck on his part?

"Anybody know if there's something going on with O-Cab that we don't know about?

He's got a Kenny Lofton thing going on, it seems. 6 teams in the last 5 years but he's still relatively young and productive. Is this a product of personality or just bad luck on his part?"

He is not very productive. He is essentially replacement level offensively while being awful defensively.

"He is not very productive. He is essentially replacement level offensively while being awful defensively."

To Cabrera's credit, this was his first terrible defensive year. He played a nice SS for the ChiSox in 2008.

Signing a 2B and 3B is too much. The Twins need one decent option at one spot, Punto at the other, and the rest of the money needs to go to an SP (preferably NOT Pavano) and extending Joe Mauer.

joeiscool12. we cant get any picks out of ocab because his contract stated we cant offer him arbitration if he is a type A free agent

I can't imagine Glaus or Crede costing much. They'll both likely be forced into incentive-laden, one-year deals, which is what the Twins should look for.

Otherwise, Lopez at 2B and Punto at 3B is the safe play.

Again, trade for Uggla before you re-sign Cabrera. If you're getting terrible defense, you may as well get some plus offense out of it. I'll take Uggla's .350+ OBP and 30 HRs over Cabrera's refusal to draw a walk and declining glove.

"I don't know if the Twins need to spend money on an injury prone 3rd baseman either.(Beltre, Glaus, or Crede) There payroll doesn't allow for mistakes and if they sign any of these players they have no one to back them up with the bat. They'd be right back to square one."

I would not consider Beltre injury prone. He has played 140+ games every season except last year because of an injury to his man bags.

Signing someone like Crede to an incentive laden deal:
1) Does not hurt their payroll very much (thus the incentive part)
2) They do have Danny Valencia or Punto to take his place if need be.

I think the ideal player for the Twins is Dan Uggla, but I would be surprised if they pulled the trigger.

Also Tolbert/Morales in the playoffs.... Worst. DH/3B Combo. Ever!

cabrera would be a waste at short or second. his defense is really heading downhill and his offense has been getting worse every year. if you're going to spend, you might as well gamble on beltre who offers better overall defense (plus punto better at 2nd) and more upside offensively. and if he does get injured they have backup in tolbert and danny valencia.

"Why not Pavano? I think he could be a valuable addition to the rotation."

Better question is "Why Pavano?" He pitched decently, but he was acquired because there was no better option on the table through trade or free agency at the time.

I think people are assuming that Pavano's 199 IP last season have stricken the "injury-prone" label from his record. This is the same guy who threw 145.2 innings for his entire Yankee tenure.

If you're going to pursue an injury-prone starter, then pony up the extra few million and get Harden on an incentive-laden contract with a vesting option.

He's a better pitcher than Pavano no matter how you spin it. I just don't see the sense in bringing in another injury-prone or declining backend starter if there's no upside to it. Harden has ace upside and carries the same risk as Pavano.

I'm sick of the "aging veteran" acquisitions for the Twins. Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz, Sidney Ponson... if you're going to try to catch lightning in a bottle in your rotation, at least make sure the guy's got some electricity to begin with.

Why do you keep calling Cabrera an aging veteran? The guy won a Gold Glove in 2007, played incredible D in 2008, and had one bad year (error wise) in 2009. Trading Gomez and losing Cabrera = zero fire on this team.

Maybe this is a little bit unlikely but lets say the Twins do grab Beltre for somethin like 1yr 8-10 and Lopez for 2yr 8 mil. Then non-tender/trade Crain for scrap parts and trade Punto the the Phils (being they need a utility infilder) for a warm-body and grab Bedard for 1yr 8mil. This combined with a 7-8 mil raise from Joe Mauers 12.5 mil and the twins are right around 93-95 mil. this would give us a lineup of

CF-Span
2B-Lopez
C-Mauer
1B-Morneau
RF-Cuddyer
DH-Kubel
3B-Beltre
SS-Hardy
LF-Young

SP-Baker
SP-Bedard
SP-Slowey
SP-Blackburn
SP-Duensing

CL-Nathan
SU-Rauch
SU-Guerreir
MR-Mijares
MR-Nesheck
MR-Liriano
LR-Bonser

B-Harris
B-Tolbert
B-Morales
B-Pridie

I would say that team if healthy is a legitimate playoff contender and not completely unreasonable. It is at least financially viable

Save some money and grab DeRossa to play 2nd or 3rd. Then the Twins can go out and sign someone like Pavano as well as an upside starter like Harden, Bedard or Sheets. The lineup wasn't the problem last year it was the pitching.

Harden and Bedard are both Type B's so they won't cost a draft pick.

"Sid Hartman of the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports that Gardenhire would like Cabrera at second base, J.J. Hardy at short and Nick Punto at third."

If I were a Twins fan, I would not be thrilled about that from an offensive standpoint. That is two, potentially three below average hitters, with only Hardy offering much upside. Cabrera should not be hitting second, either.

Punto's best roll would be a super sub off the bench. Forget about the money, he's still worth having because he can spell the entire infield on any given day. DO NOT START!

What if the twins made a HUGE splash and traded with the fish to get Dan Uggla and Josh Johnson!? Now this would cost a lot, no question BUT the fish have never been averse to taking on prospects, if fact they'd prefer it.

So why not trade an Aaron Hicks/Ben Revere 5 star prospect and package some young arms that have many many years of control to get bigtime bat and an ace pitcher??

If this is not swingable, I'd like to see either GLAUS, BELTRE or CREDE at third. In the new stadium, power will be the name of the game. Crede and Beltre would be the best defensive options providing power at the hot corner.

At second, let Gardy make a choice between Punto and Cabrera to start, not both! If he chooses Cabrera then he can still have Punto just as a bench guy.

As far as pitching goes, I would like them to add two guys. Carl Pavano (I really do like him) and Jarrod Washburn (Underrated lefty).

So this would be a great offseason in my opinion:

- Trade for JJ Hardy (done)
- Resign Joe Crede
- Sign Felipe Lopez
- Resign Carl Pavano
- Sign Jarrod Washburn

Done.

Crede is cheap and if he can stay healthy can put up decent numbers, if he gets injured put in Punto. Sign Lopez for 2 years, and Bedard or Harden.

-Span
-Lopez
-Mauer
-Morneau
-Cuddyer
-Kubel
-Young
-Crede
-Hardy

-Harden/Bedard
-Baker
-Slowey
-Blackburn
-Duensing/Liriano/Swarzak

Not unrealistic and makes us a much better team.

TargetField, it's an interesting idea you bring up regarding the Marlins trading Johnson and Uggla. I was actually thinking about that too, and while it is very unlikely, I dont think its impossible. Contract extension talks would need to turn south between the Marlins and Johnson and it would depend if the Marlins would be willing to take a group of our pitchers who dont necessarily have ace potential. From a twins perspective, I think they would love to have Johnson, but I'm not sure Uggla really fits our team. I dont think he's really a 2 hitter despite his decent OBP. That would mean putting either Hardy or Punto in front of Mauer who aren't much better at 2. Interesting none the less, I guess bumping Mauer up a spot isnt a bad idea although i dont think Gardy would go for it.

I am hoping we add Lopez at 2nd and a couple starters. Im ok with Punto at 3rd. No one likes him but he plays great defense, has great AB's (he, not mauer led the team in pitches per AB), and is acceptable in the 9 hole IMO. I would love to add Bedard, Harden,or Sheets to the rotation along with another vet.

The reason Punto is in the picture is because he makes $4M....its probably about $1M more than he's worth, but he's not really a tradeable guy, so he's playing somewhere.

Lopez would be a great #2 with solid OBP, but EVERYONE knows that so he won't be cheap. You should assume the Twins can't afford him.

Atkins seems like the most interesting option for the Twins. He's young, he could probably get a low trade tab or be had if he's non-tendered which it sounds like he will be. His a buy-low offensive guy, with a .289 career avg and 20HR a year.

I'd have to disagree on Harden, he is flat out nasty when he's healthy. That is a big if, but he was fairly healthy last year. I'm not saying I want him any more than the other guys i mentioned but he is one of the best when healthy. The biggest problem with him other than injuries is that he rarely makes it past 6 innings which hurts the bullpen. But if your looking for high risk high reward and a possible ace, Harden is a candidate. Another lefty is definitely something we need, but for some reason I'm just not crazy about washburn. I would rather take a chance on Bedard's power arm.

Cabrera on a one or two year deal would be great for the Twins. He was a very strong 2 hole, he had a ridiculous streak of run scoring games late in the season. But the priority right now has to be starting pitching. I feel like the Twins can take a risk on an injury prone pitcher like Harden or Bedard because we have lots of durable pitchers in AAA/MLB.

One more side note on WASHBURN before his disasterous Tigers Stint - Washburn was 8-6 with a 2.64 ERA in 133.0 innings. YO!

I just read the Phillies are much more interested in DeRosa than Beltre. If that's true, it will sure help keep the cost down a little I would think, unless some other large market teams jump in the race who i'm not thinking of.

"Signing Cabrera at this point would be disastrous, given infield alternatives like Lopez, Beltre, Crede, and possibly Glaus."

Cabrera is one of the best offensive and most durable shortstops in the league. (he had 186 hits this year and the before mentioned run scoring streak.) It is hard to believe it would be the best defensive move to make, but moving Cabrera to second would be a great right-handed option that would be somewhat cheap and dont have to trade prospects for. Being such an aggressive hitter isnt as terrible when you hit in between Span and Mauer. I'd rather see Cabrera at second then Crede or Glaus on the DL.

I would scrap the idea of resigning Cabrera, Crede, Glaus or Beltre. All either injury prone or getting old.