Yankees Notes: Matsui, Damon, Cano

Hmm, Montero for a starter? I wonder who matches up?

"He believes that the Yankees "shouldn't rule out" dealing Robinson Cano, if the right offer arises."

Yeah, the same with 99% of players in baseball (probably those not named Pujols or Mauer). IF the right offer arises, you trade him. Not a hard concept.

"Harper wants to see Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes (or both) in the bullpen, with the team pursuing a free agent starter to fill out the back end of the rotation."

And that's totally the wrong idea. Why relegate the young stud pitchers to the bullpen. Doesn't make sense for any team, even the Yankees. Hughes and Joba both belong in the opening day rotation.

Trading Montero? Unless its to stop the Red Sox from getting Felix (IF he's even traded, which I put a less than 10% chance on), I can't see how a team with massive payroll resources should resort to trading its top prospects.

Cano is overshadowed by all the stars on the Yanks. NYY shouldn't trade anyone. I wouldn't take the chance of messing up the chemistry they've got going, or breaking up the core of the team.

I am not sure what it means to say the Yankees are dominating hot stove discussion. There is speculation around every team - that's the hot stove. Those teams that are expecting to be more active perhaps have more discussion, but I don't see that the Yankees are dominating that.
Now, as far as media coverage, it is up to the media whether a team dominates for no particular reason.

"I'll be curious to see if they ever become stud starters.

I think Red Sox prospects are the only ones that get overhyped, according to the posters here."

I'm not saying Hughes/Joba are the next Clemens, or next Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz/etc.

But they haven't proven that they don't belong in the rotation yet. It's their spots to lose. 2010 should be the final test.

Why not go sign a couple of low budget back end starters? They already have C.C. and AJ at the top of the rotation. Filling it out with some non 15mil + starters wouldn't hurt.

Maybe sign Garland and Wolf?

Garland is a lock to give you at least 200 innings a year and with the way the Yankee offense is he would prob win 15 games. Same thing for Wolf except he is a little better than Garland.

From there restructure Wang's contract and start him off as your #5 starter. If he gets back into his old form he becomes your true #2/#3 starter.

What you can then do is move Joba and Hughes to the BP as 7th and 8th inning SU guys. Personally i think thats where they are both destined to be anyway and they will be pretty darn good at it. If the Yanks could lock them up for a long time after Rivera leaves thats a wonderful 1/2 punch at the back end of your BP.

As far as your DH spot goes. I say find a way to acquire Dunn. He is younger than both Damon and Matsui and he hits pretty darn good to the last time i checked. I mean Matsui and Damon are good players in there own rights but neither one of them really makes me scared of them being pitched to. Dunn scares me and IMO thats what any DH should do. Can you imagine that 40-50 HR power behind A-Rod? If that happened i wouldnt be surprised for A-Rod, Tex and Dunn to put up some serious numbers

Also maybe look into getting a true right fielder. Brad Hawpe maybe? Only reason i say that is because with the current outfield no one's arm scares runners and singles turn into doubles and doubles into triples.

I agree with melonis rex. Why trade Montero? While there is virtually no chance he stays behind the plate, his offense easily projects as a starting corner outfielder (even for the Yankees). If I am Philly and have a capped payroll, then maybe you are willing to trade guys like this, but for the Yankees to even entertain would be horrible. The only players to included him in are Felix (I dont the ANY team has enough to get Felix) or Halladay.

As for Hughes and Joba, I think that the Yankees should leave one spot open for them to compete over in Spring. Also, try to resign Wang for a lower contract, and he is insurance if neither of them pull it together (I dont think Wang will be back till at least June).

As for the offense, the Yanks should look at Holliday, but dont need him if they bring Damon and Matsui back. If the only resign Matsui they should also look at signing Cameron (a player they have shown interest in before). Also, the should look for a reliever in the 2 million range with upside. Putz, Rodney, Gregg (Hawkins, Betancourt, or Dotel if they dont get offered Arb.). I think these guys might go for more than 2 million, but if one falls (the market did that last year) then there could be a bargin among the group.

Alright, just to get this part out of the way, I'm biased, I do think Pedroia is the best second baseman in the AL. But it's stupid to trade Cano. His D sucks, but he can hit.

Posted by: start_wearing_purple | November 07, 2009 at 07:21 PM

I went to FanGraphs and compared Cano to the molestor's brother and yeah, you're right.. UZR has Pedroia around 7 and change, while Cano was actually -5.

I was very surprised because when I watch the Yankees play every day, Robbie looks like one of our best defensive players. His number of put-outs, attempts, double plays turned, range factor, and fielding percentage are all superior to the molestor's brother.

In 2007 UZR had Cano around 11 something. Is the stat just wonky and prone to variance? I obviously don't watch Pedroia everyday, but when I watch him play the Yanks he comes across as having a step or two more range than Robbie to my eyes, but UZR has him on a different level. I am confused to say the least.

"Alright, just to get this part out of the way, I'm biased, I do think Pedroia is the best second baseman in the AL. But it's stupid to trade Cano. His D sucks, but he can hit."

Uh, Cano's fielding is perfectly fine. He makes stupid mistakes sometimes, but he's fine. His problem is that he can't take a goddamn walk. Hitting over .300 is worthless if you have an OBP in the .330s to accompany it. We saw in 2008 how bad he can be when BABIP decides to tear him a new one.

Cano is very very aggravating, but I have no idea who could fill his shoes. Power and good defense at 2B doesn't grow on trees.

Yankees need to:

1. AVOID LACKEY
2. Sign Chapman if the price is right. Absolutely do not start him in the majors.
3. Resign Matsui to a 1 year deal
4. Let Damon walk. Matsui can hit everywhere, while Damon is declining, is mediocre on the road, and is atrocious in the field. He'll get multiyear deals from moron GMs.
5. Trade for a LF like Willingham or sign Holliday. Avoid Bay like the plague.
6. Let Wang go unless he's up for a minor league contract
7. Re-sign Pettitte and get a 1 year stopgap 5th starter. Justin Duchscherer, perhaps.

I don't see why its even an argument over whether to bring back Damon or Matsui. The argument people make is bring back Damon to basically be a DH and fill in in LF once in a while. But Matsui put up far better offensive numbers last year, and if i had to chose between Damon and Matsui to DH Matsui is the obvious choice. That's why they have Brett Gardner.

"don't agree with your assessment of Cano not making the tough plays"

Alright. As I said, I don't watch him enough, but when I do watch him I'm rarely impressed. In Pedroia I see a heart and hustle that I rarely see in your bought and drug addled team (because affect rarely is seen online, to any yanks fan I'm trying light banter).

Crawford
Jeter
Mauer
Texeira
ARod
Posada as DH
Cano
Swisher or A.Jackson
Melky or Gardner

Starting pitching

Sabathia
Halladay
Burnett
Joba or Sheets
Gaudin or Wang

A powerful and balance team in my opinion. Keep the chemistry in 2010 and improve the team in 2011 and for years to come.

This is why people hate Yankee fans

You know, "withpower" the Pedroia jokes aren't even close to being funny. A: it was his brother, not him. He had nothing to do with it. B: it was in California. By your logic, everybody from California is a child molester, right?

You're pathetic.

soxfan93,

Haha. I think it's hilarious. I mean, his brother diddled a little boy and I'm making jokes about it.

It's not like Pedroia is your brother. He just plays second base for your favorite baseball team. And his brother diddled a little boy.

C'mon Red Sox Nation.

You guys have got to be able to take a little crap with reagrds to the situation involving your starting second baseman's brother diddling a little boy.

its sad that the yankees are thinking about trading montero. probably because they are penciling in mauer as their 2011 opening day catcher which probably wont happen. although it would be quite funny if montero is moved and mauer signs an extension. wait scratch that....it would be hilarious.

on the hughes and joba thing, i think its clear to everyone joba is more effective as a reliever and hughes has more of a make up to be a starter.

No one should even bother responding to start_wearing_purple he is an idiot.

"Don't mess up with chemistry. Damon, Matsui and Pettite are proven postseason players so resing them for 1 more year if possible and maybe bring a low budget starter like Ben Sheets if healthy or Randy Wolf for insurance as starting pitchers (both would be cheaper than Lackey) and in 2011 bring free agents outfielder Carl Crawford, catcher Joe Mauer and pitcher Roy Halladay to replace them. Imagine this lineup in 2011:"

it looks likely that the rays are going to be able to sign crawford to an extention. i also cant see mauer leaving minnesota and they are going to do whatever to resign him. and halladay will be traded to a contender outside of the AL east.

so basically what im saying is keep dreaming. =D

The Yankees need to keep as much of this team together as possible.

If they have to jack the payroll up to $250 million, then so be it.

We need to make a run at 6 titles in a row to beat the run from 1949-1953.

We need to make sure that Yogi can't keep rubbing his rings in Jete's face.

Response to soxfan93

I love when Red Sox fans are jealous they didnt get Arod and pretend they are not by making fun of him.

Purple, I feel like most people outside of NY, or AL East, still see Cano as an average 2nd baseman at best, but he grew leaps and bounds in terms of defense this past season. This was one of his best all around seasons, I'd say. The only knock on Cano is that he isn't clutch. He's been more of a "tack on" kind of player that thrives when the team already has the lead. All in all, above average defense, I'd say.

Yeah, it's not quite as bad as a starting third baseman who ruins his marriage by screwing a blowup doll. Or would you prefer "woman who is like 80% plastic"? Or should we just go with Madonna?

Posted by: soxfan93 | November 07, 2009 at 08:39 PM

Kate Hudson, much? Who's your girlfriend?

Alex destroyed the American League this year. He destroyed it. He sonned the Red Sox.

You are our sons.

yeah but I havnt gotten over the go screw yourself yet comments. Now go do it.

Yeah I thought about it, as long as we wouldn't have to give up Ajax or Montero, I guess it would alright.

I'm impressed. You almost managed to mimic intelligence. But still, you need to grow up.

"Anyway, the reason Pedroia looks like he's hustling so much every time is because of his small build it takes him more effort to get to balls in the hole. "Scrappy guys" (aka small white guys) like him and Eckstein show more effort into making plays that other 2B make easier. I'm not saying Pedoria is a bad defender, but Cano is also a very good defender. HIs long easy strides and strong arm give him the impression of looking "lazy or terrible" but it just seems that way to the non yankee fan. that guy does everything."

Robinson Cano is in no way an "excellent defender". He IS lazy and doesn't even come close to playing at Pedroia's level of defense. Cano's UZR: -5.2 (-8.0 in '08). Pedroia's UZR: 9.8 (10.5 in '08).
How's that for a scrappy white guy?

Dustin PEDroia is one of the most overrated players in the league. Im not just saying that because im a Yankee fan either. I know a lot of non yankee fans who think this too.

Yeah I would trade them for Crawford or Halladay but not Dunn.

Yeah I would rather have Romine too I forgot about him. I think he has a chance of being our future catcher over Montero.

@ Yankees10

Prove it. Can't? Makes sense. Cano can't hold Pedroia's jock.

Robinson Cano is in no way an "excellent defender". He IS lazy and doesn't even come close to playing at Pedroia's level of defense. Cano's UZR: -5.2 (-8.0 in '08). Pedroia's UZR: 9.8 (10.5 in '08).
How's that for a scrappy white guy?

Posted by: soxcurse | November 07, 2009 at 08:50 PM

I posted about this earlier in the thread, and for all the jokes I've made in poor taste, I was actually quite serious with my supposition.

I do not understand how UZR is calculated. I will admit that. And from the 19 times I see Pedroia play, he looks to me to have better range than Cano (who I see play over 100 times a year), especially going towards first.

I noted the disparity in UZR (although Cano did have an 11+ UZR in 2007) but then pointed out that Cano turned more double plays than Pedroia, recorded more put-outs, had MORE ATTEMPTS, a higher range factor, and a more than .020 advantage in fielding percentage.

All this information I got off of FanGraphs. I'm seriously asking, if anyone knows, is UZR a reliable stat? I tend to think it is because guys like Utley, Zimmerman, etc score very, very well on it and they are elite defenders and my eyes tell me that.

But UZR makes it seem like there is a canyon between Pedroia and Cano and I just don't see it when I watch the games. Pedroia is better, but it does not appear to be as drastic as UZR makes it out to be.

Does UZR overemphasize range as opposed to arm strength and physical size that would lead to being able to turn double plays and stand in on charging runners more effectively?

no, what that shows is that you cant quantify defense

Your an absolute idiot if u think Lowell is better than Arod.

dont bother because its true

Your an absolute idiot if u think Lowell is better than Arod.

Posted by: Yankees10 | November 07, 2009 at 08:58 PM

I didn't say Lowell is better than A-Rod. But I'm pretty sure he was WS MVP in 2007, so I'd say we did fine.

soxfan93,

You may not hate the Yankees, but let me tell you something.. we absolutely hate you.

For what you did in 2004, taking away the 1918 chant.. having the audacity to chant "In Your House" in our baseball cathedral...

We will put you into the dirt for the next decade. I hope they sign Holliday, Bay, Lackey.. trade for Pujols, and trade for the rights to Ted Williams frozen, headless corpse.

I want nothing less than to top the 1949-1953 run. I want 6 in a row.

soxfan93,

You may not hate the Yankees, but let me tell you something.. we absolutely hate you.

For what you did in 2004, taking away the 1918 chant.. having the audacity to chant "In Your House" in our baseball cathedral...

We will put you into the dirt for the next decade. I hope they sign Holliday, Bay, Lackey.. trade for Pujols, and trade for the rights to Ted Williams frozen, headless corpse.

I want nothing less than to top the 1949-1953 run. I want 6 in a row.

Posted by: withpower | November 07, 2009 at 09:01 PM

Hmmm... I can't tell how much of that should be discounted due to the fact that you're 7.

Timmy B I like your style!

I have been preaching how good the O's are going to be for a while now and only a true baseball fan can see the kind of potential they have there.

The O's are close and I think the final piece to their puzzle (after their young pitching matures of course) would be a play for Joe Mauer if he is willing to leave the Twinkies. The O's have the money to spend and have never been shy about investing in players so I think it could be a possibility. Not sure who would switch positions-Weiters or Mauer, but both are athletic enough to make a switch to 1st or 3rd base, and play the position at a high level. What do you think?

Soxfan, David Eckstein was also WS MVP.
As awards go, its pretty meaningless

2011 New York Yankees

c mauer
1b texiera
2b cano
3b arod
ss jeter
of holliday
of crawford
of bay
dh pujols(they can overpay him enough to convert)

sp sabathia
sp felix hernandez
sp halladay
sp lackey
sp burnett

one stat seriously

@ Yankees10

Prove than Cano is better. Prove that he has a "better future". The Pedroia vs. Utley is an argument, sure. I don't think I'd be "f-ing Psychopathic" if, based off of STATISTICS, Pedroia is the better player.

You never answered my question. What team were you a fan of before the Yanks won it all?

yeah the orioles are in good shape. they have all their pieces in place that just need to blossom. thay dont have to worry about aquiring all their pieces via trade and free agency

timmy b people like you are the reason everyone hates yankee fans. it gives us good reasonable yankee fans a bad rap

Yeah I was a fan of the team before, what made you think I wasnt

Yeah, I know, small sample size, right? Hall of Fame means nothing, too. Lou Gehrig sucked.

Posted by: soxfan93 | November 07, 2009 at 09:09 PM

Hang on, did you just compare WS MVP to HOF election? and david eckstein to lou gehrig?

I'm just saying world series MVP isn't the best indicator. Matsui was WS mvp this year but Arod CC Mariano and arguably Jeter had better postseasons. Tex Jeter Arod and Cano had bette regular seasons.

Using WS mvp to state a claim Lowell is better than Arod is idiotic.

I'll see your WS MVP and raise you 3 regular season MVPs.

Soxfan93 how can you measure a player based on OPS Utley hits for way more power than Cano and Pedroia so of course his OPS is higher. You measure a player based on leadership skills, intangibles than stats and the stat you start with is OBP

Posted by: yankeesfan1132 | November 07, 2009 at 09:10 PM

I'm just saying that that is the ranking. Utley one, Pedroia two, Cano three. Cano has a lot of potential, don't get me wrong. But so does Pedroia. Dustin's younger, too.

You measure a player based on leadership skills, intangibles than stats and the stat you start with is OBP

Posted by: yankeesfan1132

That's how you measure Derek Jeter (haha). sorry, buddy. i'm a gigantic yankees fan also, but Utley is a better second baseman than both cano and pedroia- he's the best in baseball.

Uh.. look guys..

Chase Utley is the best second baseman in baseball.

Chase Utley is the best second baseman in baseball.

I repeated that for a reason. If we want to sit here and argue who is second between Cano and Pedroia.. let's do that. In my opinion, Pedroia is a better defender with more range. Cano uses his superior arm and physical size to turn double plays better (though maybe this is inflated because his SS is Derek Jeter and not whoever they had playing SS for Boston until Gonzo stepped up). Cano is clearly a better hitter with a more devastating swing and more natural athletic ability and 25+ HR power, but walk rates don't lie.. Pedroia has better plate discipline.

But seriously..

Chase Utley is the best second baseman in baseball.

i said as awards go, ws mvp is not that meaningful. and yeah the sox did fine with lowell, but they would have done better with hanley ramirez