Odds & Ends: Tigers, White Sox, Lannan, Looper

Monday night linkage..

  • The Tigers went from sellers to buyers this offseason, writes MLB.com's Jason Beck.
  • Hank Blalock's former teammates are surprised to see him still without a job, writes T.R. Sullivan of MLB.com.  Earlier today we heard that the Rays and Marlins are thought to have interest in the 29-year-old.
  • Pitcher Cha Seung Baek tried out for the Mariners today, tweets Corey Brock of MLB.com.  Baek last pitched in the majors in 2008 and was released by San Diego in October of 2009.
  • Chuck Garfien of CSNChicago.com spoke to White Sox GM Ken Williams, who said that he nearly pulled off a deal that would have possibly given the club the best rotation in the history of the game.  Williams wouldn't name names, but Garfien believes that he was referring to Roy Halladay.
  • Nats pitcher John Lannan has decided to part ways with agent Andrew Mongelluzzi and latch on with Brodie Van Wagenen of Creative Artists Agency, according to Bill Ladson of MLB.com.  Lannan will be arbitration-eligible after the 2010 season and become a free agent after the 2013 campaign.
  • While the Dodgers remain in contact with Braden Looper's representation, the chances for a deal are slim as they cannot offer him a spot in the rotation or the salary he wants, writes MLB.com's Ken Gurnick.

115 Responses to Odds & Ends: Tigers, White Sox, Lannan, Looper Leave a Reply

  1. I’ve noticed with the sox (Could be me wanting something to happen.) That there times when nothing happens. Times when a bunch of stuff happens minor rumors signings stuff like that. Then a big thing happens. Were in the minor rumors stage right now. Something tells me Kenny is going to pull something big here soon.

    • the_show 5 years ago

      I tend to agree, Kenny seems antsy right now. I wanted Damon but I’m glad we didn’t pay 8 million for him, I rather park the money for now.

      • billmelton 5 years ago

        I would not be at all surprised if KW gets Adam Dunn from the Nats as a DH come late May or June (do not, however, let him touch a glove under any circumstances).

        • the_show 5 years ago

          I was thinking the same thing, my gut tells me Kenny hates our DH situation

          • Ferrariman 5 years ago

            ozzie seems to love it…im beginning to think more and more that 05 was a fluke season.

          • a 99 win fluke? an 11-1 postseason record fluke? they’ve won the division since then and had a 90 win season in which they just missed the playoff cut. do you really want to call it a fluke?

          • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

            Well game 2 of the ALCS was a fluke.

          • I don’t think it was a fluke. I just think like some players Ozzie needs a change of scenery. I say this all the time he’s like a quick burning candle. He burns bright real fast. But then he burns out.

          • Ricky Bones 5 years ago

            Is Ferrariman the moniker of Tony Tag?

          • disgustedcubfan 5 years ago

            I agree with you. How could he not hate the D.H. situation? Using late inning, defensive replacement players for your D.H. is not much of a plan.
            Kenny will have a real D.H. before the team heads north in April.

        • disgustedcubfan 5 years ago

          Dunn would be a dream come true for the White Sox as a D.H.
          The problem is the Nats like him and want to resign him to a long term deal.
          I’ll bet Washington would want 2 top line prospects and 1 major league ready, young pitcher in return.

          • billmelton 5 years ago

            I think Dunn would be a great fit on the southside, but there are a lot of factors to review:
            1. Will KW want to re-sign Konerko and/or AJ? That affects his willingness to trade Viciedo or Flowers and affects money he sees being potentially freed up. We know he has 6 million to use ( from Damon negotiations).

            2. How does Sweaty Freddy hold up at the start of this year? If the answer is not so well, then we will see Hudson much quicker, and KW would not really want to part with him. If Freddy turns out OK, maybe he puts John Danks on the table. Other prospects I see being put out there are Rethorford and Morel -not world class but pretty solid middle infielders.

            Hopefully we will see this played out in the friendly confines of reality TV, thanks to MLB network.

          • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

            While Dunn would be great in Chitown, I doubt that happens. KW and Ozzie have said they want to get younger and more athletic. Dunn is like a younger, Jim Thome with more power. I think the team is taking a new approach. I hope the White Sox send the farm for Adrian Gonzalez and I mean it. Fits the “athletic” type as a Gold Glover, can shift Paul Konerko to DH. That would be one hell of a lineup. Perhaps if Quentin or Jenks or both start off hot again this season, they can get a third team involved and make the trade cost less prospects. They can organize a three-team deal and land a lefthanded, gold-gloving 1b, power hitter and excellent protection for Konerko. Imagine how well he’d hit in US Cellular as opposed to With Pierzynski’s, Konerko’s, and I believe Linebrink’s contracts coming off the books next season, they can probably afford to extend him. Obviously they’d resign Konerko but maybe a little less money and years (I don’t think Reinsdorf will ever let him leave Chicago, the World Series ring guaranteed Konerko a lifetime contract IMO)

        • I don’t know, I bet Kenny takes a look at that .230 avg. and says, nope, he’s not our type of player.

          • billmelton 5 years ago

            That may very well be true but my point is that the Chisox have a real deficiency here . I have very real qualms regarding LH power in this lineup. The Cell is designed to be a hitter’s park, and it’s befuddling as to why OG has his head in the sand here. I am hoping that KW cuts off the DH by committee experiment quickly. It would be a shame not to address this need when the Chisox have made a real effort to assemble a first class pitching staff.

            The Twins have assembled a great lineup while the Chsox have assembled a great pitching staff. Like mirror images of each other…

    • danks50 5 years ago

      Who knows as he’s completely unpredictable. The one thing I’m fairly sure of is that he is not content with this roster and its pretty obvious he knows forcing Andruw Jones & Mark Kotsay into a key offensive roles is not the way to build an elite team in the AL.

      • studio179 5 years ago

        “The one thing I’m fairly sure of is that he is not content with this roster and its pretty obvious he knows forcing Andruw Jones & Mark Kotsay into a key offensive roles is not the way to build an elite team in the AL.”

        Williams made those moves. If he did not think those were the moves to make for ‘key offensive roles’ then he would not have made them. If those were moves to be made for other moves, they did not happen. Basically, you are saying you do not like either signing. I can’t blame you.

  2. dizzle4 5 years ago

    It makes you wonder what the White Sox offered. To come up with a similar package to what the Phillies offered, it would be something like Beckham, Daniel Hudson and Tyler Flowers, which looking at their current roster, wouldn’t be gigantic losses in the sense that they have other players that can handle those positions. Interesting to think about.

    • billmelton 5 years ago

      I think Beckham is untouchable right now, the others (and perhaps Johnny Danks too) I could see being moved.

      Kenny-coulda, woulda, shoulda… again.

    • Taskmaster75 5 years ago

      Probably be something like Danks/Floyd and Flowers plus some other dude.

  3. bjsguess 5 years ago

    Unless the package was for Halladay, Greinke and Lincecum I’m just not seeing how the White Sox could have assembled the best rotation in the history of baseball. Looking at their 2009 season they had exactly ZERO starters who posted an ERA under 3.75. It’s not like xFIP is any kinder to them.

    The White Sox have a great shot at having 4 very solid starters. One of which could be outstanding (Peavy). Just not sure that Halladay or Lee or anyone else that might have been available would have somehow pushed this rotation to mythical heights.

    • gosox33 5 years ago

      The sox had the 2nd best ERA as a staff last year in the American League. Williams didnt say it would have been the best of all time, he said it would have been the best in TEAM history. A rotation of Peavy, Halladay, Buehle, Danks and Flyod would have been right up there in White Sox history. Ah, to dream.

    • danks50 5 years ago

      “Looking at their 2009 season they had exactly ZERO starters who posted an ERA under 3.75.”

      Is that some sort of magic cut off number? I’m not sure why you don’t like the upside on our two young pitchers when Danks has posted 2 top 10 era season in the AL (5th in ’08) at the age of 24 and did so last year with lingering circulatory problems in the fingers of his throwing hand.

      As for Floyd he was nothing less than stellar after a troubling start to the season. ’08 may have been reason to expect a fluke season however his K/9 rose to 7.6 while posting above average contact rates while improving his walk rate. Across the board he posted better peripherals and unless you are an outsider looking in it wasn’t hard to be impressed after his poor start as he flat out dominated oponents for the remainder of the season.

      Also its funny you bring up FIP as despite it hammering Peavy almost every year and predicting a massive decline he has put up year after year of sub 3 era, and despite moving to a home run (not hitter friendly) ballpark its not a major concern when your a strikeout pitcher who doesn’t post extreme ground ball rates.

      Finally Buehrle’s resume speaks for its self as despite possessing an inferior pitching arsenal he’ll work the zone while keep hitters off balance and possess the intangibles such as being an excellent defender at his position and neutralizing the run game that make him truly special. He is the image of consistency goes 200+ innings every year and a solid #2 on almost any team in the league.

      There is ALOT to like on this staff especially coming off a year which the led the league in quality starts and posted the 2nd best era in the AL. They have subtracted Jose Contreras and added Jake Peavy. That’s a huge difference on a team that put up pretty good numbers last year and could conceivably post absolutely dominating numbers in 2010.

      • bjsguess 5 years ago

        What did I say? “The White Sox have a great shot at having 4 very solid starters.” Everything you just mentioned is completely in line with what I said. I meant no disrespect to the White Sox (even though I am not nearly as high on them as you are).

        We are talking about the best rotations EVER. In the past 20 years we have Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux as a 1-3. Even in your wildest dream not ONE current White Sox pitcher is going to match what ANY of those guys put up. They weren’t just good, they were the best in the business at the time. You could make an argument that for a solid 5 year run they had 3 out of the best 5 pitchers in baseball. Conversely, I don’t know anyone who thinks the White Sox have even one of the best 5 pitchers in baseball on their current staff.

        And that’s just in the past 20 years. Historically … well we could find some pretty amazing staffs.

        • danks50 5 years ago

          Completely agree with the whole best rotation in history discussion but that wasn’t the point of my argument.

          When you think about ‘solid’ staffs teams like the Rays, Rockies, Angels, etc come to mind. As you said maybe I’m a little bit higher on this staff than most but adding an ace to the top of that rotation gives our staff 4 stellar pitchers to run out on any given week. That group is potentially dominating and to me has a lot more upside & value than any of the aforementioned ‘solid starters’.

  4. ryan_schutz 5 years ago

    Why can’t LAD offer Looper (or Washburn) a spot? Kershaw, Billingsley, Kuroda, Padilla, McDonald? Elbert? Stults? $ is obviously an issue, though. as the cards and dodgers battle for a spot behind the phils in the NL, both lack a solid five deep rotation.

  5. baseball52 5 years ago

    The best rotation I’ve ever seen was Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz/Milwood/Avery, and this rotation even with Halladay wouldn’t have eclipsed that height.

    • 0vercast 5 years ago

      That is exactly what I was thinking when I read that. It’s not even close.

      • baseball52 5 years ago

        Maddux was the best pitcher in the game at that time, arguably. Halladay could definitely finish behind Lincecum, Greinke, and Wainwright. Not to mention the rotation held 3 future Hall of Famers, and the Sox rotation has yet to yield one that’s totally evident like Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz are.

      • tman89544 5 years ago

        Its more like maddux/glavine/smoltz/neagle/millwood in 98. Just nasty.

    • sunking1056 5 years ago

      Yeh, the Sox would have had an excellent rotation but… That Braves rotation is one for the ages.

    • Triteon 5 years ago

      No doubt. I hate to say it, but that ’86 Mets rotation was incredible as well. This thing with “best rotation in the history of the game” sounds like it’s coming from a 25 y.o. fantasy owner, not a major league GM.

    • tman89544 5 years ago

      Its more like maddux/glavine/smoltz/neagle/millwood in 98. Just nasty.

      • baseball52 5 years ago

        Let’s just leave it as any rotation with Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz in the 90’s.

  6. tweet99 5 years ago

    Would have should have but didn’t.. Just BS from Sox camp..

  7. baconslayer09 5 years ago

    Halladay, Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd/Danks, Garcia…

    Definitely the best in baseball, but not of all time or anything.

    I say Danks/Floyd because either one of those guys must have been included in the deal.

    • bjsguess 5 years ago

      Best in baseball? Maybe. If every single thing that can go right does, in fact, go right.

      • I dont even know where to start. I am speechless after reading this comment.

      • baconslayer09 5 years ago

        You’re talking about two aces, one of the best #2 starters in baseball followed by a good starter in Danks/Floyd and a serviceable 5th starter in Garcia.

        I don’t know how that isn’t the best in baseball.

        • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

          Seattle can give them a run for their money. And of course Boston has Lester, Beckett, and Lackey as their front 3.

          • baconslayer09 5 years ago

            Are you seriously willing to compare Beckett vs. Halladay, Lackey vs. Peavy, and Lester vs. Buehrle?

            Lester will probably be better than Buehrle, but the first two are a no contest.

          • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

            I thought you were arguing about the current White Sox rotation being the best in baseball. That said, remember Peavy has yet to pitch a full season in the American League.

          • baconslayer09 5 years ago

            And Seattle also lacks a decent back end of the rotation.

          • danks50 5 years ago

            Seattle has an elite 1-2 punch and a bunch of question marks after, the depth isn’t even close and the best comparisons to the White Sox rotation would be the Yankees & Red Sox.

        • Ricky Bones 5 years ago

          Peavy has to prove that he’s still an ace.

          • baconslayer09 5 years ago

            He just needs to stay healthy. He doesn’t need to prove much. He’ll post a ERA around 3.5 and strike out 200 guys. That’s ace material.

          • Ricky Bones 5 years ago

            I agree he doesn’t have to prove a ton, but he still needs to prove he can transition to the new league & let’s not discount the need to prove health. I’m confident he will be healthy, but you just never know.

    • I don’t think Garcia would be in the rotation.

      • baconslayer09 5 years ago

        He’d have to be since Danks/Floyd would be in the deal. Would you rather have Hudson? Eh…

    • redsandyanksfan 5 years ago

      are you forgetting the yankees with Cc Sabathia ,Aj burnett ,Andy and javier vasquez and joba-hughes? i would call that the best in baseball

      • 0bsessions 5 years ago

        An ace, two three/four pitchers and a pair of guys who’ve never proven capable of lasting much past the fifth? Not even the best in their division, much less best in baseball.

        • 0bsessions 5 years ago

          *That should read THREE three/four pitchers. Burnett and Vasquez are effectively 3 pitchers in the AL and Pettite is a borderline three/four at this point in his career. They have one of the best pitchers in the game as their ace, but their rotation is overall questionable beyond him.

      • Ricky Bones 5 years ago

        The Brothers Vazquez, Andy & Javier.

  8. gunger69 5 years ago

    i wish looper will sign with the dodgers.

    • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

      You’re a Giants fan right?

      • gunger69 5 years ago

        so you’re telling me we cant give him a shot?

        • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

          Depends. How much do you like your pitchers giving up an average of over 1 home run a game?

          • Ricky Bones 5 years ago

            I enjoy watching Looper pitch b/c of that sadistic grin he maintains while on the mound. Ever notice that?

    • Taskmaster75 5 years ago

      You know 14-7 looks good on paper, but a 5+ ERA does not 😛

      • Eric 5 years ago

        A smart team looks at a pitchers strengths to find good fits. Looper has a career 48.3 GB%. He belongs on a defense first team (Seattle Mariners). It wouldn’t change the pitcher, but it would change the results. For example;

        -Looper pitched for the 2008 Cardinals. (199IP and 4.16ERA)
        -08 Cardinals 1B Albert Pujols 8.5UZR/150
        -08 Cardinals 2B Adam Kennedy 21.8UZR/150
        -08 Cardinals SS Cesar Izturis 11.3UZR/150
        -08 Cardinals 3B Troy Glaus 5.0UZR/150

        • start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

          Are we forgetting about the 86 hrs he’s given up being a starter for the last 3 years…

        • Taskmaster75 5 years ago

          39 homers last year. That’s an awful amount of them. I mean, He gave up almost 2h HR’s a game! How do you call that good? I mean, a good defense surely helps, but in reality, it probably wouldn’t have helped him that much. His WHIP was also his highest since 2000. This shows plenty of decline to me, and only on a very favorable situation would you sign him. The Dodgers do not have a spectacular infield defense. It’s not terrible, it just won’t meet Looper’s needs.

    • redlake 5 years ago

      we have better pitchers already

      why spend the money? he’s not that good.

  9. 0vercast 5 years ago


  10. Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

    Anyone else think it may not have been Halladay? Maybe they tried to get in on the Cliff Lee three-way? What if the Sox offered Danks/Floyd to the Phillies with a 3b prospect like Brett Morel/Dayan Viciedo, and OF prospect like Jordan Danks? Very similar to what the Mariners offered?

    • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

      Lee, Peavy, Buerhle, Danks/Floyd, Garcia is pretty epic too.

      • Danks/Floyd??????!!!!! You mean Danks, Floyd and Garcia in the pen.

        • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

          I think one of them would have been traded in the deal. Considering the Phillies are in contend now mode, I think they would have wanted either Beckham, Flowers, or one of those two pitchers, major-league ready/proven players, and then 2 or so prospects. Considering KW has said Beckham and Flowers are pretty much untouchable, I think they would have had to include one of Danks or Floyd.

    • danks50 5 years ago

      Explain to me how it makes sense to offer two talented pitchers under control for the next few years for a pitcher in Cliff Lee that is one year away from free agency and will command around 18+ million dollars once he hits the market.

      • Hoosierdaddy92 5 years ago

        what i meant by danks/floyd was 1 of them would likely be in the deal considering the Phillies are in contend-now mode. As for the money, look at how much it cost philly to extend Halladay. Granted, Lee unlikely would sign an extension like Halladay did, but even so, do you think the White Sox could have afforded BOTH Halladay and Peavy making 20MM a year. I think this would have been a one year gamble, with the hope of being able to re-sign lee back, but if not they’d at least get the draft picks from him most likely being a Type A free agent next offseason in order to restock part of the farm.

  11. Civilization 5 years ago

    This is just Kenny Williams posturing… And it’s not a bad move. It’s getting people talking about the White Soxs and getting the fans excited for the season. If there was serious negotiations, the ones that continue for more then one phone call, Kenny would of at least offered up hints on who he was courting.

  12. jakec77 5 years ago

    you know, it would have been a lot easier to take the Mets being less than aggressive all of season if they were just waiting to jump on bargains now… I bet a lot of fans would be a lot happier if the Mets will filling in the roster right now with the F Lopez, H Blalock, and K Caleros (as opposed to A Cora and F Tatis). Lopez, Blalock, Pagan, Matthews… that would have been a pretty strong bench.

  13. johnsilver 5 years ago

    Pretty much given up posting here and statements like Kenny Williams are why.. Just how can he even contemplate that he would have the top3 or 4 even in history when compared to the ’71 Orioles? Has that quartet he already has managed to each win 20 games 3+ times each already? Wow, I guess they are already piling up multiple Cy Young awards also, not to meantion be 20 game award winners each IN THE SAME SEASON like Dave McNally, Pat Dobson, Jim Palmer and Mike Cueller did also during the ’71 season. Sure that is just 4 deep, but before you even start talking about going 5, you got to beat (or come close) to those 4 20 game winners.

    Wisen up Kenny…

    • danks50 5 years ago

      C’mon we got the the O’s 1980 Cy Young Award winner Steve Stone in the announcers booth. Freddy goes down we plug in another Cy-Young arm into the rotation :)

    • Umm…the 1971 Orioles top 4 doesn’t even hold a candle to the 1997 Braves top 4 of Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and Neagle. Smoltz had the worst ERA+ of the Braves group at 138, while Palmer topped the Orioles at a mere 125. All 4 Braves starters finished in the top 10 in the NL in ERA+, while only Palmer cracked the top 10 in AL ERA+ in 1971. On top of that all of the Braves top 4 finished in the top 10 in the NL in IP, while Dave McNally badly missed the mark for the O’s.

  14. UnfriendlyConfine 5 years ago

    10 bucks Kenny Williams is just blowing smoke. The guy thinks he’s the smartest guy on the planet. I like a confident executive running a ballclub, but this guy acts as if he can make any trade and sign any player he wants to. What he said about Damon in the Sun-Times was just ridiculous. There’s no need to be sarcastic and put a guy down just because he chose not to sign with your club. And if he was talking about Halladay, what prospects was he going to give up to get him? I haven’t read too many articles praising the Sox farm system, which was already seriously depleted before Halladay was on the block. Get over yourself, Kenny.

  15. invader3k 5 years ago

    Looper not having signed yet is further evidence of how meaningless W-L records are for pitchers. 14 wins last season and he’s still unemployed.

  16. susasskuash 5 years ago

    Interesting that John Lannan picked up the same agent that Ryan Zimmerman has in Brodie Van Wagenen.

  17. redlake 5 years ago

    I’ll take Koufax (2.76 ERA) Drysdale (2.95 ERA) and Podres 3.68 ERA/clutch pitcher) over any of these guys.

    • Guest 5 years ago

      Koufax is easily one of top 5 pitchers of all time.. Hell, good chance he might be 1-2.

  18. lug 5 years ago

    I really wish Kenny Williams would just keep his mouth shut on something like that. OK so let me think what could have been ok thanks. I think we should look forward to what we do have and not could of had. I mean if you watch the interview it mostly a lot of joking around and such and not a serious inteview at all. Kenny please keep your mouth shut on these things, you deserve what most people are saying on this board. Just continue to operate under the radar that is how you operate best. (As if he’ll read this)

  19. derekbellstutu 5 years ago

    How is it that Hank Blalock and Kiko Calero are still umemployed?

  20. ashleysteen 5 years ago

    I love halladay it really sucks that hes leaving the jays I wrote my own blog about it. I guess in a way its a good thing to get some new players, lets hope these prospects work out for our benefit!

  21. ashleysteen 5 years ago

    love halladay it really sucks that hes leaving the jays I wrote my own blog about it. I guess in a way its a good thing to get some new players, lets hope these prospects work out for our benefit!

    link to the-toronto-bluejays.blogspot.com

  22. danks50 5 years ago

    I’m not putting too much stock into that as Keith Law has never really like the Sox prospects, however the farm is admittedly depleted and definitively a bottom 5-10 system.

  23. baseball52 5 years ago

    I’d give the worst to the Cardinals. But you could rank the Sox between say 23-29 and put up a pretty good argument.

  24. Ferrariman 5 years ago

    maybe it wasn’t a trade with the farm system?

    maybe gordon beckham was part of the deal.

  25. Even after trading for Peavy the White Sox had the AAA Pitcher of the year and Minor League Pitch of the year last year in Dan Hudson and Carlos Torres.

  26. Ferrariman 5 years ago

    100% agree. Halladay is the best pitcher in the game right now.

  27. baseball52 5 years ago

    I meant in reference to last season. By the way, Halladay has never pitched in the playoffs much less a big game in Toronto. Because of the very rocky start to his career I’d take Lincecum’s 2 Cy Youngs and downright domination of the National League over him.

  28. baseball52 5 years ago

    He would have to be. He’s the only top level guy the Sox have. Although Tyler Flowers should have a very good career, and some people, not including myself, believe Dan Hudson will as well.

  29. danks50 5 years ago

    He’s got a good low/mid nineties fastball, impressible change and a strange deceptive delivery. Then again he more or less alerts the entire stadium when he changes his arm slot to throw his curve and his entire success has been built on one season in the minors & 18 innings in the majors. I like him but the Sox haven’t produced a notable major league arm from their farm in a while so I remain cautiously optimistic.

  30. danks50 5 years ago

    Like I said I like Hudson but Torres is mop up guy that probably gives you some spot starts and could win the long relief role out of ST. He’s isn’t anyone’s idea of a quality prospect despite his success as a 26 year old still pitching in AA.

  31. Ricky Bones 5 years ago

    First off, I don’t see how it’s at all like comparing Strasburg & Koufax.

    Halladay has not pitched in the playoffs and has not pitched on particularly good teams for his career. There’s a lot less pressure pitching for 3rd & 4th place each year than being in a pennant chase year in & year out. Those factors cannot be discounted when assessing his overall value.

  32. baseball52 5 years ago

    I don’t get the Koufax and Strasburg thing either.

    Halladay has done it for 4 straight years and 2 earlier in his career. The rest of the years he hadn’t pitched even 22 starts. Also, like Ricky Bones said, Halladay can’t pitch in a big game if he isn’t in a race. Halladay hasn’t sustained anything.

    Basing a pitcher’s abilities off of the league he pitches doesn’t seem like an argument that you can completely base off of now does it. Lincecum has downright dominated the National League, I’m sure he’d fare well in the American League.

  33. JerseyJohn32190 5 years ago

    You have pretty lenient standards for a big game if all it is is pitching on the road against a division rival.

  34. baseball52 5 years ago

    Well yes but the statistics aren’t majorly shifted. Look at Johan Santana, his stats aren’t much different from his Minnesota days.

  35. baseball52 5 years ago

    I see him as more of a closer/setup man type kid. That’s why I’m not overly impressed.

  36. Ricky Bones 5 years ago

    Not every game in Yankee Stadium is a big game. It’s a big stage to perform on but what rides on the line defines whether or not it’s a big game. Each time the last place Orioles step foot into Yankee Stadium I doubt there are many who chalk it up as the game of the week solely b/c of where it’s occurring.

    A guy can dominate in the regular season & do nothing when it comes down to brass tacks. A guy can do nothing in the regular season & be a world beater come playoff time. For the first part, look at ARod when he came to New York. For the second part, look at Scott Spiezio.

  37. JerseyJohn32190 5 years ago

    A game in May between the Blue Jays and Yankees is not a big game regardless of where it takes place. I think to be classified as a “big” game, there have to be some serious playoff implications for both teams and it’s probably taking place later in the year. When was the last time Halladay pitched in a game that had playoff implications for the Jays? Has that ever happened? I can’t say he’s ever truly pitched in a big game.

  38. danks50 5 years ago

    Not sure what you’re reasoning is as he throw 4 pitches and besides his get me over curve all are of pretty good quality. He isn’t a one pitch blow it by you fastball pitcher that’s better suited in the bullpen (Aaron Poreda).

  39. baseball52 5 years ago

    Well the fastball will not sustain mid-nineties throughout his starts, most reports tab him at 91-93 as a starter with a little arm side run. His changeup is above average but I’m not calling it good quality. His slider is where his money is made, very good pitch.

    Here are two good scouting reports:
    Sept, 2009: link to projectprospect.com
    College: link to saberscouting.com

  40. Ricky Bones 5 years ago

    How big can it be if you’re not playing for anything standings-wise? Perhaps it’s “big in their hearts” b/c “they’re competitors” and whatever other intangibles & cliches you want to throw out there but it’s not a big game.

    Spiezio has always been nails in the playoffs. His numbers are gaudy in 2002 w/ the Angels & while his numbers don’t look spectacular on paper in 2006 w/ the Cardinals, he came up w/ clutch hit after clutch hit that year. Something the numbers can’t show.

  41. redlake 5 years ago

    Koufax is the best ever period!

  42. Ricky Bones 5 years ago

    Based upon?

  43. redlake 5 years ago

    Obviously these discussions are subjective. When I first started watching the game of baseball Koufax was in his prime. admittedly my opinion is biased. The statistics are amazing, however. ‘Koufax had the greatest run of any pitcher in modern history from 1962-1966. He won 25 or more games three times, posted a combined ERA of 1.93 and struck out an average of 289 batters a season. He was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1972.’

    The most obvious flaw in my claim is the lack of longevity due to his arthritic elbow.

    The strongest point of my opinion is to watch film footage of him pitching against great hitters of the time. His fastball was upper 90s and his breaking ball moved very late keeping batters totally off-balance.Koufax once struck out Mickey Mantle in the World Series on a wicked curveball that was called a third strike. Reportedly, Mickey turned around, laughing at his own futility, and said to the umpire: “Jesus Christ, now how in the hell am I supposed to hit that shit?” if you watch the film footage you can see his dominance which, I believe,is stronger evidence than the statistics. Consider this, however, Sandy’s postseason performances included 9.6 strikeouts per nine innings and a .095 ERA. There were some pretty good hitters back in those days.

    Again, I admit I am biased in my thinking based on what I saw at the time. I am also admittedly presumptuous in my opinion due to the lack of longevity of his career. I think he was 30 years old when he retired and I believe he won 27 games that year but the pain of pitching was overwhelming. Perhaps more than anything Sandy Koufax was and is a class act.

    All of that being said let me sum it up by saying that if I was on a team in the World Series the last picture in the world that I would want to face would be Sandy Koufax, no doubt about it.

  44. Ricky Bones 5 years ago

    The longevity has always been a bit of a hang up for me, but at the same time he pitched w/ such dominance for the time he did play, as you mentioned, that it really boggles the mind to imagine what he perhaps could have been.

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