Odds & Ends: Hall, Lowell, Myers, Valentine, Lee

Some links for Thursday as Rangers GM Jon Daniels decides exactly how he wants to dye his hair


39 Responses to Odds & Ends: Hall, Lowell, Myers, Valentine, Lee Leave a Reply

  1. aap212 5 years ago

    Valentine is much more entertaining in the dugout than the studio. Bring it on.

  2. Eric 5 years ago

    Amaro could have kept Lee a Phillie and have a top two of Halladay and Lee (11 starts, pitching 86.2 innings of 2.39ERA baseball). Instead of keeping the 9M dollar Cliff Lee on payroll he shipped him off for a package of since regrettable prospects. He then locked up Blanton (9 starts, pitching 53 innings of 6.96ERA baseball) to a 3YR/24M deal (An average of 8M a year).

  3. Mejia and Pagan as a return would hurt the Mets; Pagan is our best outfielder. Even if Beltran comes back, Francoeur is terrible and Beltran has his own question marks. And no way do I part with Mejia for a rental to boot. I really hope the Mets aren’t willing to offer that…… ugh.

    • Nicolas_C 5 years ago

      Dude are you serious??? Jeff Francoeur has grission!! He’s amazing, clubhouse hero! Look at that guy always smiling, how can you not want that guy on your team?

  4. Fangaffes 5 years ago

    “The Red Sox are expected to put Mike Lowell on the DL to make room for Daisuke Matsuzaka”

    I don’t see how they do that without his agent throwing a fit.

    • jwredsox 5 years ago

      Well it isn’t like they can put him on without a reason or they will get in trouble. See the Oliver Perez situation.

      • elclashcombo 5 years ago

        The reason? – ‘lost ambulatory function in his legs’ 😉

        In one respect, I dont feel too bad for Lowell. He makes $74,000 just to show up in the dug out. On the otherhand, you gotta feel for the guy. He wont be released out of fear of being scooped by direct AL competitors. Stuck in Red Sox purgatory.

        • ReverendBlack 5 years ago

          I don’t feel for him at all. He obscenely overpaid to come off the bench for a potential WS team.

          • nhsox 5 years ago

            He took a year less at the same pay to play for the Red Sox instead of the Phillies… The market has changed (which surely isn’t his fault), so there’s no reason to blame him for being overpaid because he signed a team friendly deal in 2007. The Bronson Arroyo situation in the past should have been an indication that it’s not smart to give the Red Sox a break when signing a deal, but Lowell likely felt that the Red Sox would have treated him better than this. He gave up 1 year and roughly $13 million in forgone salary to stay in Boston and he has been treated like a second class citizen at best. Sure, Mike Lowell will be just fine, but it doesn’t seem unreasonable to feel for the guy despite the fact that he’s overpaid.

          • ReverendBlack 5 years ago

            (1) In my two sentence post, did I say or even imply that I blamed him, weirdo? No. So go ahead and knock that off. No one is blaming Mike Lowell for anything. They’re calling a spade a spade and saying “crap, that’s one expensive spade. This kinda sucks.”

            (2) He has not been treated like a “second class citizen”; give me a break. Just shhhhutup with that stuff. Such dramatic nonsense.

            What does it even mean? Maybe that the team comes first and poor ol’ millionaire Mikey comes second? That’s definitely true. For him and every other player.

          • nhsox 5 years ago

            Re 1: You said you don’t feel for him at all. I critiqued this by saying that he gave up $13 Million to stay with the Red Sox only to watch his team sign a new third baseman. Normally when people sign a home town discount, they expect that their good graces are at least somewhat re-payed (which they certainly haven’t). Your choice to blame him or not is irrelevant. My apologies for any misunderstanding. Feel free to invent reasons for why it can be considered fair treatment if you’d like.

            Re 2: You didn’t even make an arguement here; you just said that he hasn’t been treated like a second class citizen and told me to shut up. Not only did you fail to cite any rationale for this claim, you made yourself look like a fool for resorting to such substance-less banter.

            Re part three: I thought it was clear that his treatment as a “second class citizen” refers to the lack of courtesy that the Red Sox have shown toward him. Lowell took a pay cut to PLAY for the Red Sox. In year 3, he has not. Pretty simple. $13 Million in forgone wages is a significant amount of the money that he might have netted during his baseball career. As I’m sure you well know, baseball players don’t make that kind of money for long, and, oh yeah, $13 million is an absolute TON of money. Don’t you get that? Is it that hard to see? The Red Sox robbed him of $13 million because they signed Lowell under the condition that he would PLAY OUT his contract. Certainly, this wasn’t written in blood on the wall, but doesn’t mean that the Red Sox didn’t have a duty to either trade or play Lowell. Certainly, the guy is a millionaire and will be just fine. You seem to agree with me on that, but his presumably steady financial situation has no bearing on whether he was treated poorly. So for you, and all of the other idiots who think that they can write off guys like this as whiners, cut the crap. It does not speak to the substantial sacrifice that Lowell made and the inability for the Red Sox to own up to their duty to a loyal player.

            As for your last sentence, I brought this up earlier with the Bronson Arroyo reference: players should claw for every last penny while negotiating contracts because it is reasonable to assume that they will be treated by cold, apathetic management decision making.

          • ReverendBlack 5 years ago

            he gave up $13 Million to stay with the Red Sox only to watch his team sign a new third baseman. Normally when people sign a home town discount, they expect that their good graces are at least somewhat re-payed (which they certainly haven’t) … Feel free to invent reasons for why it can be considered fair treatment if you’d like.

            Invent reasons? How about nobody owes him any playing time at all. He’s being paid EVEN WHEN he doesn’t play. If he thought signing with them meant he could play in front of better players even when he was awful, he’s an idiot. So is anyone else that thinks bad players should play instead of good players for any reason other than that a contract requires it. It’s just absolutely nuts.

            You didn’t even make an arguement here; you just said that he hasn’t been treated like a second class citizen and told me to shut up. Not only did you fail to cite any rationale for this claim, you made yourself look like a fool for resorting to such substance-less banter.

            lollin WHY YOU AINT PROVE A NEGATIVE GUY????

            IOW, it’s on you to show some evidence of him being treated like a 2nd class citizen. I’ve already explained a couple times now why shitty players not being allowed to start is treating them like 1st class citizens and shitty players, not 2nd class citizens. But I’m sorry you didn’t liek my presentation. =(

          • ReverendBlack 5 years ago

            he gave up $13 Million to stay with the Red Sox only to watch his team sign a new third baseman. Normally when people sign a home town discount, they expect that their good graces are at least somewhat re-payed (which they certainly haven’t) … Feel free to invent reasons for why it can be considered fair treatment if you’d like.

            Invent reasons? How about nobody owes him any playing time at all. He’s being paid EVEN WHEN he doesn’t play. If he thought signing with them meant he could play in front of better players even when he was awful, he’s an idiot. So is anyone else that thinks bad players should play instead of good players for any reason other than that a contract requires it. It’s just absolutely nuts.

            You didn’t even make an arguement here; you just said that he hasn’t been treated like a second class citizen and told me to shut up. Not only did you fail to cite any rationale for this claim, you made yourself look like a fool for resorting to such substance-less banter.

            lollin WHY YOU AINT PROVE A NEGATIVE GUY????

            IOW, it’s on you to show some evidence of him being treated like a 2nd class citizen. I’ve already explained a couple times now why shitty players not being allowed to start is treating them like 1st class citizens and shitty players, not 2nd class citizens. But I’m sorry you didn’t liek my presentation. =(

          • ReverendBlack 5 years ago

            his treatment as a “second class citizen” refers to the lack of courtesy that the Red Sox have shown toward him. Lowell took a pay cut to PLAY for the Red Sox. In year 3, he has not.

            Already dealt with this, but since it is the core of your confusion I’ll do it one more time. Unless the contract specifically guarantees it, nobody signs a contract to play. They sign for an opportunity to play. Sure, this is rarely an issue with players of Lowell’s salary & caliber, but that’s because it’s rare for players of his salary & caliber to decline as fast as he has. But if it’s anyone’s fault (it isn’t), that decline is LOWELL’s fault – not the team’s.

            Got that? They guaranteed him a salary for a number of years. That salary did not depend on production or even the appearances. Which is a huge risk for whom? Not Mikey Millionaire, I’ll tell you that. THEY expected him to play three years; they’re friggen paying for it! But he’s not even good enough to be a regular anymore, let alone a $13M regular.

            Are we good now? The only thing they owe Mike is money. They do not owe him an opportunity to hit .230 and hobble around the field. He is not being treated like a second class citizen. He’s being treated like a washed up millionaire, because that’s what he is. And I like him!

            The Red Sox robbed him of $13 million because they signed Lowell under the condition that he would PLAY OUT his contract.

            No. They. Didn’t. There is no unconditional expectation that he can play – or that anyone can – for the length of a contract. Players who cannot outperform their peers do not play. It doesn’t get any more basic. You have made this whole thing up in your head.

            the substantial sacrifice that Lowell made and the inability for the Red Sox to own up to their duty to a loyal player.

            He took a chance like every other team and player ever. It wasn’t loyalty; it was perceived self-interest. Mike wanted to stay in Boston. He did stay in Boston. Then he broke down. He wouldn’t play in Philly either. It came out bad for him, worse for the Sox. They don’t owe him anything but his money and it’s on you to prove otherwise.

          • ReverendBlack 5 years ago

            his treatment as a “second class citizen” refers to the lack of courtesy that the Red Sox have shown toward him. Lowell took a pay cut to PLAY for the Red Sox. In year 3, he has not.

            Already dealt with this, but since it is the core of your confusion I’ll do it one more time. Unless the contract specifically guarantees it, nobody signs a contract to play. They sign for an opportunity to play. Sure, this is rarely an issue with players of Lowell’s salary & caliber, but that’s because it’s rare for players of his salary & caliber to decline as fast as he has. But if it’s anyone’s fault (it isn’t), that decline is LOWELL’s fault – not the team’s.

            Got that? They guaranteed him a salary for a number of years. That salary did not depend on production or even the appearances. Which is a huge risk for whom? Not Mikey Millionaire, I’ll tell you that. THEY expected him to play three years; they’re friggen paying for it! But he’s not even good enough to be a regular anymore, let alone a $13M regular.

            Are we good now? The only thing they owe Mike is money. They do not owe him an opportunity to hit .230 and hobble around the field. He is not being treated like a second class citizen. He’s being treated like a washed up millionaire, because that’s what he is. And I like him!

            The Red Sox robbed him of $13 million because they signed Lowell under the condition that he would PLAY OUT his contract.

            No. They. Didn’t. There is no unconditional expectation that he can play – or that anyone can – for the length of a contract. Players who cannot outperform their peers do not play. It doesn’t get any more basic. You have made this whole thing up in your head.

            the substantial sacrifice that Lowell made and the inability for the Red Sox to own up to their duty to a loyal player.

            He took a chance like every other team and player ever. It wasn’t loyalty; it was perceived self-interest. Mike wanted to stay in Boston. He did stay in Boston. Then he broke down. He wouldn’t play in Philly either. It came out bad for him, worse for the Sox. They don’t owe him anything but his money and it’s on you to prove otherwise.

          • nhsox 5 years ago

            Re 1: You said you don’t feel for him at all. I critiqued this by saying that he gave up $13 Million to stay with the Red Sox only to watch his team sign a new third baseman. Normally when people sign a home town discount, they expect that their good graces are at least somewhat re-payed (which they certainly haven’t). Your choice to blame him or not is irrelevant. My apologies for any misunderstanding. Feel free to invent reasons for why it can be considered fair treatment if you’d like.

            Re 2: You didn’t even make an arguement here; you just said that he hasn’t been treated like a second class citizen and told me to shut up. Not only did you fail to cite any rationale for this claim, you made yourself look like a fool for resorting to such substance-less banter.

            Re part three: I thought it was clear that his treatment as a “second class citizen” refers to the lack of courtesy that the Red Sox have shown toward him. Lowell took a pay cut to PLAY for the Red Sox. In year 3, he has not. Pretty simple. $13 Million in forgone wages is a significant amount of the money that he might have netted during his baseball career. As I’m sure you well know, baseball players don’t make that kind of money for long, and, oh yeah, $13 million is an absolute TON of money. Don’t you get that? Is it that hard to see? The Red Sox robbed him of $13 million because they signed Lowell under the condition that he would PLAY OUT his contract. Certainly, this wasn’t written in blood on the wall, but doesn’t mean that the Red Sox didn’t have a duty to either trade or play Lowell. Certainly, the guy is a millionaire and will be just fine. You seem to agree with me on that, but his presumably steady financial situation has no bearing on whether he was treated poorly. So for you, and all of the other idiots who think that they can write off guys like this as whiners, cut the crap. It does not speak to the substantial sacrifice that Lowell made and the inability for the Red Sox to own up to their duty to a loyal player.

            As for your last sentence, I brought this up earlier with the Bronson Arroyo reference: players should claw for every last penny while negotiating contracts because it is reasonable to assume that they will be treated by cold, apathetic management decision making.

  5. $1529282 5 years ago

    As a Twins fan, you have to love to hear them mentioned as one of the frontrunners, especially when the centerpiece would likely be something that our club really doesn’t even need. No disrespect to Wilson Ramos, of course, but he’s obviously not a part of the long-term plan in Minnesota, and he deserves a chance to play somewhere.

  6. What do the Astros want for Myers?

  7. Reyesisback 5 years ago

    i would love to see lee in a mets uni..but mejia AND Pagan for Lee is just too much to give up for a half a year rental and some compensatory picks..however, if the mets were given a window to negotiate a possible contract deal with lee..then that deal would seem more tempting.

  8. icedrake523 5 years ago

    I really would rather see the Mets get Roy Oswalt instead Cliff Lee since I doubt you’d be able to sign Lee to an extension. Oswalt makes a lot, but you can keep the costs of prospects down by eating most of his salary. It would cost a lot of money, but it’d greatly increase their chances to make the playoffs which would increase ticket sales next season.

  9. frank_costanza 5 years ago

    its about time someone started talking about Myers. i have always been a big fan of his and he is having a great year. i wish the Phillies would re-acquire him, it makes perfect sense. hes got a cheap contract, hes liked in the phils club house, and well, hes good. but Amaro is so stubborn and i dont think he ever liked Myers as a person.

    • 0bsessions 5 years ago

      “i dont think he ever liked Myers as a person. ”

      In Amaro’s defense, Myers did, y’know, punch his wife in the face in the middle of a crowded street. Guys like that generally aren’t particularly popular.

      • frank_costanza 5 years ago

        not that i am condoning punching your wife in the face at all, but he had a bit of an issue. he sought help, he and his wife worked it out, and it hasnt happened again. NOW, he never punched anyone in the clubhouse, what he was was a funny energetic hard worker. he was liked in the clubhouse, and i have nothing but worlds of respect for his work ethic, he was awful the first half of 08, but he realized he needed work, accepted a AAA assignment that he didnt have to accept and came back up and was their best pitcher the second half.

        • 0bsessions 5 years ago

          I’m sorry, but “scumbag with a good work ethic” doesn’t come off as much better to me. Maybe he was liked in the clubhouse, I wasn’t there, but again, the dude punched his wife in the face, repeatedly, in the middle of a big city while she allegedly screamed “I’m not going to let you do this to me anymore”. You don’t stop being that kind of person, you just learn to hide it better.

          Note, this is no judgment call on your or anything, but I’m of the mind that professional athletes who smack around women who are half their size don’t really deserve much more than my ire.

          • frank_costanza 5 years ago

            point taken, although i dont know where you received these quotes of his wife saying that, but also, ive heard that supposedly his wife has her issues too and that that incident might of been the least of their problems. so for me the bottom line is, we can never know what exactly is going on in his personal life even though i believe where there is smoke there is fire, but despite any accusations, he never let any of these alleged problems enter his work world and affect his play.

      • frank_costanza 5 years ago

        not that i am condoning punching your wife in the face at all, but he had a bit of an issue. he sought help, he and his wife worked it out, and it hasnt happened again. NOW, he never punched anyone in the clubhouse, what he was was a funny energetic hard worker. he was liked in the clubhouse, and i have nothing but worlds of respect for his work ethic, he was awful the first half of 08, but he realized he needed work, accepted a AAA assignment that he didnt have to accept and came back up and was their best pitcher the second half.

  10. Spirit of '69 5 years ago

    Pagan in a deal for Lee is pure speculation by the reporter. Not sure where Seattle would really play Pagan, they have Franklin Gutierrez who is – essentially – Pagan, only younger and Ichiro taking up two outfield spots already.

    Given the Mets’ moving Mejia to double-A, to stretch him out as a starter, that would indicate he could be part of a deal for Lee, and he’s the top pitching prospect without question. It likely wouldn’t take Mejia and Pagan and the Mets would be nuts to trade Pagan now anyway since Beltran is such a huge question mark.

    Mejia is a stud pitching prospect and Josh Thole is a good catching prospect. He’s not as good as the Twins’ catching prospect but they don’t have a Mejia. You hate to give up both good pitching and catching prospects but that may be what it takes to get him.

  11. crashcameron 5 years ago

    Amaro could have backed up his money/future argument if Lee had to be part of the Halladay deal to make it work but that clearly wasn’t a three-way deal.
    The Phillies future IS now. or should we say WAS.
    How can any Phillies fan (as well as HateYankees Nation) help but think of what a season it would be with Doc and Cliff?

    And, yeah, signing a Joe Blanton to that much money destroyed any thread of logic to Amaro’s stance.

  12. crashcameron 5 years ago

    as for the Twinks …
    their payroll has climbed to the verge of scary but maybe they should make a move for both Oswalt and Myers.
    their starting staff is OK for a long haul but is a long, long way form Radke/Santana. they will scare no one coming into a playoff series.
    And don’t forget that Myers can slot into the back end of the pen if the Nathanless situation deteriorates.

    • mauerfan 5 years ago

      I don’t know if we’d be able to afford both Myers and Oswalt…

    • mauerfan 5 years ago

      I don’t know if we’d be able to afford both Myers and Oswalt…

  13. mauerfan 5 years ago

    Wilson Ramos, David Bromberg and Nick Blackburn for Cliff Lee. Offer that up now Bill Smith

  14. mauerfan 5 years ago

    Wilson Ramos, David Bromberg and Nick Blackburn for Cliff Lee. Offer that up now Bill Smith

  15. JerisG24 5 years ago

    I would be all for that!

  16. mauerfan 5 years ago

    I think it’s a pretty fair deal..

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