Cliff Lee Rumors: Wednesday

The Cliff Lee trade talk started intensifying yesterday, as the Twins, Mets, Yankees, Rangers, Phillies and Tigers now have a new suitor to out-bid: the Rays. Not only are the Rays on the periphery of the Lee sweepstakes, they are ready to add payroll and appear willing to part with B.J. Upton. The Yankees are confident that they can jump in and pry Lee away from their divisional foes, but let's not rule out the Yanks' crosstown rivals. Here is the latest on Cliff Lee, with more rumors to come throughout the day:

  • MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan says that the Rangers are working hard to acquire Lee, but nothing is imminent. Texas has plenty of minor league talent to offer, but they don't appear to be willing to move Tanner Scheppers or Martin Perez according to Sullivan. Derek Holland, Blake Beavan, Chris Davis, Justin Smoak, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia could all be fair game.  Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram says the Mariners "inquired about the availability" of Davis and Saltalamacchia.  Righty Alexi Ogando is said to be on the Mariners radar, though "there is some resistance to include him in a deal" on the Rangers' side. 
  • Morosi expands on his earlier tweet, saying that the Reds and Mariners have exchanged names "in preliminary fashion," though the two sides have yet to exchange firm proposals. One GM called Cincinnati a "sleeper" in the Lee sweepstakes.
  • CSNNE.com's Sean McAdam checked on the status of Boston's interest in Lee earlier today, and heard that the asking price was too high (Twitter links). Seattle wants a "stud catcher" close to the bigs, which the Red Sox simply don't have.
  • Joe Christensen of the Minneapolis Star Tribune gets the impression that the Mariners aren't close to moving Lee, at least not to the Twins. He was also told that the two sides haven't exchanged official proposals, and that the Ramos-Hicks talk is "pure speculation."
  • The Mariners are seeking a “mammoth return” for Lee, according to Jon Paul Morosi and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. One executive interested in the left-hander said the Mariners made a “crazy ask,” demanding an even better package than Wilson Ramos and Aaron Hicks.
  • FOX reports that the Twins offered Ramos and Kevin Slowey for Lee. At the moment, the Twins, Mets, Yankees and Rangers are most actively engaged with the Mariners in trade talks.
  • The Mariners are calling teams back and telling them that it will take two blue-chip prospects plus a third young player to acquire Lee, according to Jayson Stark of ESPN.com.
  • Two scouts tell Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports that third base prospect Juan Francisco would be the Reds' best trade chip, not Yonder Alonso (Twitter link).
  • ESPN.com’s Buster Olney hears that the Yankees are not engaged in trade talks for Lee now. They are confident they could acquire the left-hander, but do not intend to deal for him. Olney says the Twins are the favorites to acquire Lee, followed by the Reds, the Rays, the Mets, the Rangers and the field.
  • The Mets officials who have spoken to Joel Sherman of the New York Post don’t seem concerned that the Twins are the perceived frontrunners for Lee. The perception within the game is that the Mariners are leaning more toward scouting than number crunching, and the Mets believe that will work in their favor.


216 Responses to Cliff Lee Rumors: Wednesday Leave a Reply

  1. That’s because each NY team thinks they have god’s gifts to baseball.
    If you’re not going to number crunch, Minnesota still has the best chance. Ramos=Unbelievable potential, hitting ~.200 Hicks=Even more potential, leads the team in AB’s but hitting ~.265

    • East Coast Bias 5 years ago

      Or maybe they have confirmation, or something close to it, that Seattle is interested in their players…

  2. I think you have to put the Rays above Minny if Upton really is available, Upton+ C Prospect would easily net Lee I would think

    • Didn’t they say they wanted major league-ready hitters?
      Hicks can come in and steal 24 bags while hitting ~.220 as well.

      • lollardfish 5 years ago

        Why would they want Upton. CF is the one position the Ms have a young, affordable, budding star. And Upton’s attitude issues are ongoing and serious. He’s very talented, true, but …

      • Hicks is nowhere near big league ready.

        That being said, Hicks and Ramos is a really good offer for the Ms. But thats IF the Twins actually did offer that, because supposedly that is a rumor.

        And stop with Ramos having unbelievable potential. He’s a good catching prospect is all.

    • Upton continues to show he’s really good at one thing — underachieving. Just what I want on my club, a guy who doesn’t always hustle and does not play to his potential. Yeah, real bargain there.

    • Upton continues to show he’s really good at one thing — underachieving. Just what I want on my club, a guy who doesn’t always hustle and does not play to his potential. Yeah, real bargain there.

  3. Thats_What_She_Said 5 years ago

    Its an auction with a reserve (minimum) which rasies two questions: 1/ will the reserve be met? A. seems likely with this many bidders. 2/ What will be the high bid? A. Since the payment is not in cash or other fungible commodities, that is up to the determination of the seller. Stay tuned.

    • East Coast Bias 5 years ago

      This has to be one of the weirdest posts I’ve read on this site. Just saying…

      • BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

        And yet, in relation to the post, makes absolute sense. Just think about it for a few minutes-it will come to you.

    • raffish 5 years ago

      Odd way of telling everyone what they already know.

    • raffish 5 years ago

      Odd way of telling everyone what they already know.

    • nick1538 5 years ago

      I think you spend too much time on eBay…

    • nick1538 5 years ago

      I think you spend too much time on eBay…

  4. rcphilly 5 years ago

    I think Philadelphia would ask for RAJ to be put into a mental institute if we end up getting Lee back. Unreal how are name is even listed in the list of teams looking at getting Lee.

    • bflaff 5 years ago

      No, I think people would just be happy enough to have him back.

  5. kevtrem 5 years ago

    With the injury to Peavy, I wonder if the White Sox will get involved in the sweepstakes. I believe if the White Sox created a package of Gavin Floyd, Dayan Viciedo, Tyler Flowers, Dan Hudson they could be the ones to acquire the southpaw. The M’s wanted major league ready hitters. In limited at-bats Viciedo has shown the ability to hit in the Majors at age 21. Flowers has struggled to hit for average in AAA Charlotte, but has shown impressive power. Floyd is relatively young and affordably under team control for a while and there is no denying his natural talent, winning 17 games in ’08. Hudson is likely to be called up to pitch Peavy’s next start. With an 11-4 record and a fine 3.40 ERA Hudson is are best pitching prospect. From the White Sox perspective, I would only make this trade if the M’s gave us the negotiating window and we could lock up Lee for a couple years.

    • dc21892 5 years ago

      That’s a lot for the White Sox to give up. They need to focus on getting younger position players. As for Upton in the Lee deal, I think that would be a good move for the M’s. A change of scenary is probably what Upton needs now and he has all the potetial in the world. Just because CF is controlled doesn’t mean one of them can’t change OF spots. The Rays also have some nice pieces down in the minors im sure the M’s would love to have. If they could work something out it would be a nice deal for the M’s and a horrible one for the Rays though, because Lee most likely wont resign.

    • Nicolas_C 5 years ago

      That’s far too much to give up. No one is even sure how much time Peavy will miss, so I don’t see the team panicking. Also, since you seem to think Peavy is seriously hurt (he might be), then our rotation for a while would be: Lee, Buehrle, Danks, Garcia, ???. Don’t tell me you would call up Torres.

      • kevtrem 5 years ago

        I agree with you that its a lot to give up, but say you make the playoffs. Dont you like the sound of Lee, Buehrle, Danks. As for the vacated spot you have no choice but Torres who seems to be a AAAA player, he does so well at AAA but struggles in the majors. I believe the Peavy will be out til September, and I mean if thats like 5 or 6 starts for Torres.

        • Nicolas_C 5 years ago

          Even if we had a negotiating window, I’m not even sure I’d want to give Lee big money. We have Peavy making ace money, and Danks and Floyd are going to be getting big pay days soon. Anyway, I’m cautious to give up basically the rest of our 30th ranked farm system for a half year rental, when what our biggest need is isn’t starting pitching, it’s a DH/1B type. On top of that we would need to use Torres.

          • kevtrem 5 years ago

            Acquiring Lee does two things for the White Sox. By acquiring Lee, you acquire a true ace and build on the strength of the team starting pitching, as i said before i think Peavy is out til september but just a guess, for all i know he could be back by the end of July. Lee, Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Garcia is a very good staff. The other thing is preventing the Twins or Tigers from acquiring him. I will agree with you that it isnt our most pressing need, but that sounds like a World Series staff.

          • Nicolas_C 5 years ago

            Lee would probably put us over the top, I agree. And keeping him away from the Tigers and Twins would be great. I wouldn’t mind making this trade if we had a stacked farm system, but we’d be giving up basically everything we have left. I kinda wish we traded AJ before his rights kicked in because Texas would have given us quite a bit if we paid the remainder of the contract. But as we stand now, the farm system is very weak, and I don’t think it’s a good idea to ruin our future just so we can still be like the 4th best team talent-wise in the AL.

            I think Adam LaRoche would be a good acquisition. He’s a lefty power bat, and the Dbacks couldn’t expect much in return. At the least he’s an upgrade over Kotsay.

          • kevtrem 5 years ago

            Adam LaRoche doesnt have the average where you want it (.250). But is very productive for that. I wouldnt be opposed to a trade for LaRoche, but Kenny’s last trade with the D’Backs is the another reason why we sport the 30th ranked farm system. Brandon Allen for Tony Pena :(

            If i had my choice though, Kenny would shop at the Major League’s Farm System aka Pittsburgh Pirates and make a deal for Garret Jones and can platoon in RF 1B and play DH

          • kevtrem 5 years ago

            As for the DH discussion, who are the two guys that are worth picking up and available?
            Dunn and Fielder. Dunn really doesnt want to DH and would not be excited joining this club. Fielder’s agent is Boras and wants Teixeira money and would take at least the package i presented for Lee.

  6. YaGottaBelieve11 5 years ago

    Upton has had one good season and a couple good postseason series. Other then his .300 24 home run season THREE YEARS AGO, he has but up numbers comparable to Carlos Gomez. And Upton’s center field ain’t that great, remember he came up as a second basemen. Mariners would be foolish to give up lee for upton and a below average prospect IMO, don’t they have enough attittude problems in the organization with Bradley?

  7. coolstorybro222 5 years ago

    Man, The Rays would be unbeatable with Lee in the rotation.

  8. Seriously, why would anyone center a Lee deal around Bj Upton? The guy went from great to good to lousy to still lousy. If I were the M’s, I would center the deal around Jeremy Hellickson or maybe Jennings.

    • diesel2410 5 years ago

      The Rays wouldn’t do that. Not even for Halladay IMO

  9. srj206 5 years ago

    The M’s don’t need Upton. The M’s have a full outfield for the foreseeable future (Saunders, Gutierrez, and Ichiro). Saunders is still developing, but the M’s aren’t likely to contend until 2012 anyways. Second and 3rd base are also probably filled, (Ackley and Figgins). Triunfel is hitting pretty well for a SS in AA. He broke his leg last year, and has plummeted on every prospects list. I’m also not sure the M’s will trade for a catcher. The team has a love affair (for some reason) with Adam Moore and Rob Johnson.

    I’d like to see the M’s get a first baseman who can hit for power in AAA who will be ready for next year.

    • kevtrem 5 years ago

      “first baseman who can hit for power in AAA who will be ready for next year.”
      Dayan Viciedo .290 14HR in AAA .278 1HR with the White Sox in like 30 ABs

    • Muggi 5 years ago

      Well it’s not AAA, but the Phils have Matt Rizzotti in AA… .360/.415/.640 28XBH (11HR) in 50 games…and he’s obviously blocked in Philly. Rizzotti’s a big dude (6’5″ 235), a classic AL 1B/DH type.

    • What about Yonder Alonso and Todd Frazier and maybe a AA pitcher for Lee.. What do you think would the Reds be paying too much then??? Replies please.. The Reds would have an amazing rotation then. I don’t even know where they would go with all their starting pitching. I don’t get why the Reds are being mentioned in all this. They need bullpen help with the starting staff doing pretty well and Volquez about to return, just don’t get why we are looking at starters. Though Lee would be an upgrade still.

  10. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    I said it in the thread yesterday, I think, but I’ll say it again. If Jack Z accepts a package built around the highly overrated, retarded head case that is B.J. Upton, management should ask for his resignation papers that same day.

  11. BigRedOne 5 years ago

    The Reds needs a legitimate #1 starting ace this year. Volquez and Chapman are not going to contribute much this year. I think a package of Yonder Alonso, Travis Wood and Devin Mesoraco gets it done.

    • Gunner65 5 years ago

      Too much, can’t agree to give up that much for two months of Lee. Only way I give that up is if Lee signs a pre trade extension

      • aap212 5 years ago

        Alonso is so-so and blocked. Wood is so-so and blocked. Mesoraco is having his first good pro year, and they just drafted a catcher who should move fast. I’d part with those guys for three months of Lee and two draft picks.

        • Gunner65 5 years ago

          I am all for putting Alonso in this deal. Wood & Meso are better then so-so IMO & have a lot of upside yet to be reached. Wood won’t be blocked next season & Meso is still at least 1 season away from the M/L level … Who knows who will be catching for the Reds by then. So I am not willing to deal either. They can have their pick of Frazier, Francisco, & Valaika in an Alonso deal … but nothing more then that for a rental IMO

          • bringbackericthered 5 years ago

            Sending Meso would be too much. We are vastly weaker at C than any other position organizationally. Meso is it. Grandal hasnt signed yet and there is no promise he will.

          • Gunner65 5 years ago

            Yep, agreed … Meso, Heisey & Wood are my untouchables

          • bringbackericthered 5 years ago

            Heisey is looking more and more like a 4th OF to me.
            He is great off the bench and in the field, but in games he starts, he doesnt look overly impressive at the plate.
            To me, Wood isn’t untouchable but it would have to be for more than 2 months.
            My only untouchables: Chapman, Meso, Yorman.

          • Gunner65 5 years ago

            I cant judge Heisey based on a spot start 3 times a month IMO … give him some legit playing time & we’d know a lot more about his ultimate potential.

          • aap212 5 years ago

            Grandal will sign. Next year’s draft is much deeper and he’ll be a college senior, which means he’ll be drafted later and have less leverage.

          • aap212 5 years ago

            Wood doesn’t have all that much upside, and I didn’t say Mesoraco is only so-so. I said he’s having his first good year in pro ball and the Reds just drafted a catcher who should be expected to move very quickly through the system.

          • Gunner65 5 years ago

            I don’t agree & neither do a lot of people. Wood has a lot of upside. He was lights out at AA & getting to that point at AAA. He has as much potential as Lee had at this point in his career & has put together two better seasons in the minors than Lee ever accomplished. Whether he progresses to Lee’s M/L level of success remains to be seen.

          • aap212 5 years ago

            He has as much potential as Lee? Please. I wouldn’t sign a 32 year old like Lee long term, but Wood does not have that upside. Show me someone who thinks he’s more than a 3 and isn’t linked with the Reds in some way. Not to knock the guy. He’s a good prospect. But I think some Reds fans here are too distracted by his numbers. Numbers can be misleading with pitchers. Look at what Yusmeiro Petit was doing in the high minors a few years ago.

          • Gunner65 5 years ago

            Read what I said man … “at the same points in his career” … Lee was a 4th round pick and no one projected him to be a staff ace coming out of the minor leagues … so please, before you jump all over what I said, understand what you are reading. We have no clue how good Wood can be just like no one knew how good Lee was going to be when he came up.

          • aap212 5 years ago

            Well, by that logic, it would have been unreasonable to project Lee to turn out like he did back then, and it’s unreasonable to project more for Wood. At the same age, Lee too was knocking on the door of the majors, but was more highly rated, because he had better stuff and scouting reports. Read what I said. Show me someone credible who thinks Wood has more upside than a 3. Just because someone with a superficially similar background turned out better doesn’t mean Wood has that upside.

          • Gunner65 5 years ago

            He was not … Lee had about the same level of production as Wood. Lee was never projected as a top of the line Ace coming up. He developed into it. So the burden is on you to disprove that. I never said Wood was a projected more then a 3 & neither was Lee … that is my point … so I don’t have to provide you with anything … the burden of proof is on you. They had similar numbers all through their minor league careers and Wood was a higher profile player as a 2nd round pick. Whether you like it or not, minor league production & draft position does play a factor in how guys are projected. Superficial .. get real man … its only superficial because it ruins your argument. Either way, I am done discussing this … you aren’t going to change my mind on Wood anymore then I am going to change yours … so lets just drop it.

          • aap212 5 years ago

            You keep going back to minor league numbers as if they’re the only piece of the puzzle. As far back as 2002, Baseball America referred to Cliff Lee as one of the top lefthanders in the minors, and that was before his stock took a major uptick. Scouting reports, stuff, projection; those things matter as much as minor league numbers. Yusmeiro Petit and Will Inman would be All-Stars waiting for Wood to join them if that weren’t the case. You’ve never shown me a report from anyone who’s scouted or talked to a scout that watched Wood and thought he was more than a potential mid-rotation starter. And draft position isn’t everything. Ask Greg Reynolds.

          • You can watch a pitcher for season after season til your blue in the face man. The numbers produced are what analysts look at to figure out what they are going to possibly key word possibly do in the majors geez. Take a deep breath good…

          • aap212 5 years ago

            That’s why you have scouts in addition to analysts. A guy with lousy numbers but ace stuff is more likely to be an ace than a guy with so-so stuff and great numbers. And don’t talk to me about deep breaths after you jumped all over me because you misunderstood a point about Francisco.

          • aap212 5 years ago

            That’s why you have scouts in addition to analysts. A guy with lousy numbers but ace stuff is more likely to be an ace than a guy with so-so stuff and great numbers. And don’t talk to me about deep breaths after you jumped all over me because you misunderstood a point about Francisco.

          • You can watch a pitcher for season after season til your blue in the face man. The numbers produced are what analysts look at to figure out what they are going to possibly key word possibly do in the majors geez. Take a deep breath good…

        • Gunner65 5 years ago

          I am all for putting Alonso in this deal. Wood & Meso are better then so-so IMO & have a lot of upside yet to be reached. Wood won’t be blocked next season & Meso is still at least 1 season away from the M/L level … Who knows who will be catching for the Reds by then. So I am not willing to deal either. They can have their pick of Frazier, Francisco, & Valaika in an Alonso deal … but nothing more then that for a rental IMO

        • Alonso is having a bit of a down year the RBI’s are still there though. Wood So-So. HUmm.. you must not pay much attention to our farm team then. He has been lights out for quite some time. He has great poise too like Mike Leake. The Catcher we just drafted has not been signed from what I know of. So can’t really count him in yet. We don’t know what he will do in the minors too so too early to put your eggs on that catcher.

          • aap212 5 years ago

            RBIs aren’t meaningful, Alonso has always had terrible platoon splits, he has no defensive value, he’s blocked on the Reds, and he has had more than a bit of a down year. Wood’s numbers are good, but he’s a polish guy without a ton of upside. Paying attention to numbers isn’t all there is to paying attention to the minors. A number 3 if everything breaks right. That’s not bad, but the Reds have such a wealth of young starters who are more advanced and have more upside that they can easily afford to deal Wood. And as I said above, Mesoraco will definitely sign, unless he’s a complete idiot. Next year’s draft is deeper and he’ll have less leverage, in addition to being drafted later.

      • aap212 5 years ago

        Alonso is so-so and blocked. Wood is so-so and blocked. Mesoraco is having his first good pro year, and they just drafted a catcher who should move fast. I’d part with those guys for three months of Lee and two draft picks.

    • If I am the Reds I don’t do that deal giving up too much Wood is a future starter here. The reds don’t have any other catching prospect and Devin is tearing it up this year.

  12. Guest 5 years ago

    Who the hell CAN’T acquire Lee?I don’t know why anyone would care if the Yankees think they can or cannot acquire him…Every team in the league could if they offer the right package…Houston have the worst prospects in the league, and they could get him too…(OF) Hunter Pence, (SS) Jiovanni Mier (OF) Jay Austin and (SP) Jordan Lyles, would easily net Lee…

  13. macdice 5 years ago

    BJ Upton for Cliff Lee is not going to get it done, nor do I think that Upton would be a good fit for the Mariners and that is why I wonder if the Brewers might be also involved in a three way deal. If the Brewers are considering trading Corey Hart (if you believe the rumors), Upton would be a good replacement for him. Could the Mariners package Upton along with a combination of quality prospects (both from their system and what else they get from the Rays) to the Brewers for Fielder and Brett Lawrie?

  14. DontForgetTheAlcohol 5 years ago

    With Boston seriously hurting right now, and Rays and Yanks both hot on Lee, why is there not even a slight grumble for the Sox getting Lee? In my opinion he is better than Halladay, his K/BB ratio is mindboggling and he’s on pace for another Cy Young if he stays in the AL.

    The Sox could dangle Kelly, Kalish and a few other spects. Both those guys are A / A- prospects and we also have some strong B+ spects in Anderson, Rizzo, and Doubrount whose had two solid ML spot starts now.

    I know the Red Sox need bullpen help the most and their entire offense seems to be hurt right now, but an average offense while a few key guys heal behind Lester, Lee, Buchholz, a rested Beckett, and Lackey as your number 5…… yeesh

    • Giving up those guys that you mentioned is a lot for a rental that is not guaranteed to resign. Plus, there is the question, do you want to resign him? He’s 32 now and Theo might want to stay away from a long term deal. I really don’t see how they trade Kalish with Drew wanting to retire after his contract and having Cameron who is in his late 30’s.

    • dc21892 5 years ago

      Dangling Kalish would be stupid. And Kelly is in his first full season as a pitcher so that would also be stupid. The Red Sox have Doubront and Stolmy Pimental for the future they don’t need Lee right now. Doubrount pitched well in both ML games he’s pitched in and they will be fine for now. Beckett is on track to return after the AS break along with Buchholz. Ellsbury will be back in a week or two also. No need to rush and get a guy like Lee. They need a bat and a BP arm.

      • They really don’t need a bat unless you mean until their injuries heal. It was the best offense in baseball until half the team got injured. Cameron can’t play everyday and isn’t producing. I think he should have been shut down a couple weeks back, but he might have to be DL’d soon. That means a LF/CF would be helpful.

    • BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

      The Red Sox needs are far greater in the bullpen and in the outfield. Their rotation is decent enough.

  15. ghost5599 5 years ago

    Uptons numbers, though limited to around 85 AB’s at Safeco, don’t exactly look promising. I hope there is something more in the works if a deal is made involving TB.

  16. DontForgetTheAlcohol 5 years ago

    Lee, Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey… with Dice-K and Wake as spot fill ins.

    That sounds like a world series ring to me even with Pittsburgh’s offense on the field.

    And Lee isn’t 32 until the last day of August, and you don’t think Theo would be willing to give $20 mil x 4 years to Lee as opposed to the Yanks giving him that? That awful Lackey deal though, on top of the Beckett extension, would certainly hurt those chances though.

    I love prospects, and guys like Kalish.. But just look at what happened with not wanting to part with Westmoreland in a Halladay deal. Such a sad thing to see to a brilliant talent, but in the end it’s another example of one of many top prospects who don’t turn out. If the yanks or rays get cliff lee they will win the world series respectively

    • The only problem is that the Red Sox would kinda need to agree on an extension before/during the trade. If the Yankees want somebody they go and get him and will outbid anybody. They reason this won’t get done is probably because of Lackey’s contract.

    • Not quite sure how Lee guarantees one a WS ring. (philly?)

  17. yankee234 5 years ago

    i think the yankees should wait untill cliff lee is a free agent and take care of there needs that they have now like the bench or bullpen and get a wiggington for the bench or a octovio dotel for the bullpen.

  18. Tigerfan93 5 years ago

    Detroit could really make a strong play for Lee, or just drive up the price for the Twins. The Tigers have a few major league ready hitters in their farm system (especially outfielders) that are blocked by the likes of Boesch, Jackson, and Damon.

    • TwinsVet 5 years ago

      Damon isn’t blocking anyone. He’s not a long-term solution.

      • Tigerfan93 5 years ago

        For this year, nobody is taking Damon’s job.

        • TwinsVet 5 years ago

          Sure. But if you’re talking about trading someone out of your farm system, being “blocked” typically means the guys in front of him are going to be around for more than 3 months.

    • TwinsVet 5 years ago

      Damon isn’t blocking anyone. He’s not a long-term solution.

  19. Tigerfan93 5 years ago

    Detroit could really make a strong play for Lee, or just drive up the price for the Twins. The Tigers have a few major league ready hitters in their farm system (especially outfielders) that are blocked by the likes of Boesch, Jackson, and Damon.

  20. aap212 5 years ago

    Francisco is the Reds’ best trade chip? That makes their chances look worse if you believe it.

    • sorry you are incorrect there are much better chips the reds have to play with than Fransisco. Geez

      • aap212 5 years ago

        That’s my point, genius. I was responding to Morosi saying he’s their best trade chip. You know, in the post we’re commenting on.

  21. aap212 5 years ago

    Francisco is the Reds’ best trade chip? That makes their chances look worse if you believe it.

  22. Jack Bauer 5 years ago

    2 blue chips and 3rd young player to acquire a 3 or 4 month rental for a player with no interest in staying in Seattle. To high a price imho.

    • I agree, I was wondering why more people were not thinking the same. Lee is good, very good in fact. But he is still only one player, and a player that can only play every 5 (possibly 4) days.

      • BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

        In the style of Sophia from the Golden Girls:

        “Picture it. Milwaukee. 2008. There he was-CC Sabathia.”

        When a precedent is set, it is usually followed.

  23. diehardmets 5 years ago

    Seattle’s demands are getting ridiculous. One blue chipper is fair with another young player. But two? For a rental? I’ll pass.

    • mnrunleft 5 years ago

      I agree 1 top prospect and then a couple more good prospects with decent upside was the price for CC a couple years ago, now Seattle wants 2 top prospects plus another player seems like they may be overplaying their hand.

      • philosofool 5 years ago

        You have to distinguish the talk from the real expectations. Jack Zduriencik has shown himself to be an open minded, clever negotiator who doesn’t burn bridges and finds ways to get pieces of a puzzle to fit. (Look at the J. J. Putz three-way for example.) You can bet he will figure out how to get the best possible return on Lee that he can. He’s not going to alienate the interested by being totally off-putting in the negotiations.

        • mnrunleft 5 years ago

          Well I don’t know how true that is given the statement from the executive above that called their offer a “crazy ask”. Going around asking each team for the moon is going to alienate some GM’s. Jack-Z has made some good moves and some questionable ones to this point, this Lee deal will certainly be one of his most important ones.

    • mnrunleft 5 years ago

      I agree 1 top prospect and then a couple more good prospects with decent upside was the price for CC a couple years ago, now Seattle wants 2 top prospects plus another player seems like they may be overplaying their hand.

    • It’s all gamesmanship. You submit a low offer, Mariners ask for the moon, you raise your offer a little, they ask for a little less, etc. I know it’s obvious, just saying that because they’re asking for a ridiculous haul doesn’t mean they expect to get it.

    • It’s all gamesmanship. You submit a low offer, Mariners ask for the moon, you raise your offer a little, they ask for a little less, etc. I know it’s obvious, just saying that because they’re asking for a ridiculous haul doesn’t mean they expect to get it.

  24. diehardmets 5 years ago

    Seattle’s demands are getting ridiculous. One blue chipper is fair with another young player. But two? For a rental? I’ll pass.

  25. twins33 5 years ago

    OH NO! The Rays are willing to deal Upton for Lee? The other teams are screwed!

    Really….really!? Upton isn’t that great and has been declining every year. His attitude is crap and he doesn’t seem to care. I think his offense would just disappear more in Safeco.

    It was rumored that the Twins wanted Upton in the Garza/Bartlett deal instead of Young. Boy, I think we really dodged a bullet. Upton is declining while Young is on the rise (and I’m one of the few who believed Delmon would get better). Imagine the crying from some Twins fans if we had BJ instead of Delmon right now.

  26. mnrunleft 5 years ago

    If the Twins are truely offering Ramos and Slowey I think thats a good offer for the Mariners, Ramos is or is near MLB ready and Slowey has proven a decent middle of the rotation guy who would do well in Seattle since he does give up a decent number of fly balls. If the Twins toss in one or two mid level guys I think thats the deal.

    • ghost5599 5 years ago

      Where is the impact bat that the M’s are looking to get in that deal? Ramos? Sorry he does not look like a future impact bat. Maybe the M’s are asking a lot. But Jack Z is not just going to give Lee, arguably the current best pitcher in baseball away. Rental or not, whatever contending team gets Lee the chances of them going deep in the playoffs and possibly WS go up significantly. Can you say the same with the M’s getting Ramos and Slowey? Not even close. Not even sure a deal like that improves the team for next year. M’s Adam Moore has put up more impressive minor league numbers than Ramos. But he can’t seem to get it going in the Majors.

      • The Mariners can’t limit their choices. Sure, they could obviously use a bat, but the rotation needs help too. After Felix, you have back of the rotation guys. Slowey would be a big improvement there – plus you have him under control through 2013. If someone’s offering an equivalent package that features a bat comparable to Slowey, great, but you don’t take a bat just because your offense is terrible. You take whatever represents the best upgrade.

        • ghost5599 5 years ago

          True, but do they need rotation help more than some offense? Jack Z has sure been playing the need to receive an impact bat in whatever deal finally goes down. I’ll be interested to see how Bedard performs and what the plans are for him when he comes back. And I’m pretty sure Michael Pineda will be up before the end of the year so they can get a look at him. Just seems that offense will be the best upgrade for this team going forward vs. a pitching prospect. I believe JackZ has even mentioned that they are only luke warm on someone like the Mets Mejia. I think it’s possible that some kind of 3 team trade goes down and the M’s get their impact bat. Anyway I’m hopeful.

      • The Mariners can’t limit their choices. Sure, they could obviously use a bat, but the rotation needs help too. After Felix, you have back of the rotation guys. Slowey would be a big improvement there – plus you have him under control through 2013. If someone’s offering an equivalent package that features a bat comparable to Slowey, great, but you don’t take a bat just because your offense is terrible. You take whatever represents the best upgrade.

    • Agreed. Seattle has an ace in Hernandez, but after that, it’s all back of the rotation guys. Slowey fills a big need there, and Ramos gives you another option at C (Moore certainly hasn’t showed enough to lock it down).

      Not sexy, but practical. Slowey does get more expensive going forward since 2011 is his first arbitration year, but the Mariners might very well just sign him to a multi-year deal after acquiring him, like they did with Franklin Gutierrez, and avoid arb altogether.

  27. mnrunleft 5 years ago

    If the Twins are truely offering Ramos and Slowey I think thats a good offer for the Mariners, Ramos is or is near MLB ready and Slowey has proven a decent middle of the rotation guy who would do well in Seattle since he does give up a decent number of fly balls. If the Twins toss in one or two mid level guys I think thats the deal.

  28. raffish 5 years ago

    With an All-Star roster and payroll like the Yankees have, there are no excuses to not win the WS. The only thing standing in their way to being laughable post-season favorites is Jesus Montero.

    About Montero’s future…
    a) Everyone says it isn’t at catcher.
    b) It sure isn’t at 1B (Teixeira)
    c) It must be at DH, at least for the next five or six years.

    Are the Yanks incapable of paying a mashing free-agent DH over the next five years? Or the five years after that?
    What are the odds that Montero is to be a 35-40 homer guy anyway?

    I think the real question is about pride: Is giving up a fat prospect like Montero for a guy you plan on signing in the off-season an embarrassing move? It probably is if the Yanks win it all without Lee and Montero goes on to be a star.

    But if they lose to Lee, or because they didn’t have Lee, it looks incredibly short-sighted. Clutching a young prospect without a position when you have deep pockets is potentially asinine, and in the end I think that outweighs the pride that would keep him in NY.

    When the Yanks say they have what it takes, to me that means they will pay what it takes. Lee to the Yanks for Montero, unless someone outbids them.

  29. TwinsVet 5 years ago

    I suspect Seattle’s price will start dropping rapidly as the deadline approaches. Should we really take it seriously when a seller starts a negotiation with an incredibly high asking price?

    • Do you want to wait the remaining 3 weeks and lose the 4-5 starts he gives you?

      • TwinsVet 5 years ago

        Absolutely. Not like he’s guaranteed to win those 4-5 starts, or Slowey is guaranteed to lose them in his place. In all reality we’re probably talking a 1-2 win difference.

        Sorry, but Slowey + Ramos / Hicks + Ramos / etc. is not worth it. 6 years of Hicks for 1-2 wins this season? That’s asinine.

        You’ll get Ramos and a B-level guy in a few weeks, and you’ll like it.

        • sparticus112b 5 years ago

          I know you’re being a little sarcastic about Ramos and a B-level guy but I think that is the problem with everyone’s thinking. There is competition for Lee’s services, there is going to be one team that breaks the bank. Ramos and a B-level guy won’t come close to the team that breaks the bank. If the White Sox or Detroit all of a sudden gets involved and they break the bank for Lee that completely changes the playing field and makes it so that maybe the Twins don’t make it to the playoffs. Not only does a GM owe it to the fans to compete but it also owes it to it’s players who work hard day in and day out to try to win and make it to the playoffs. How discouraging would it be for the Twin’s fanbase and players if Lee went to either the Tigers or White Sox.

          • Right. Minnesota will certainly offer less than the Mariners want, but all it takes is one other team to offer more than the Twins and they have to either up their offer or step out of the race.

            I don’t see Minnesota as a team that’s going to get caught up in a bidding war, so my gut says they’re going to find the price too rich and bow out, but someone out there is going to make the best offer, and it’s going to be more than Ramos + B prospect.

            I’ve always seen the Mets as that team. They’ve been disappointing the last few years. There has to be huge pressure to make a good playoff run and Minaya isn’t averse to dealing away talent.

          • nick1538 5 years ago

            I think the Twins are already in a bidding war if they offered Kevin Slowey or Aaron Hicks PLUS Wilson Ramos. Ramos might not be the blue chipper some say he is, but he is going to be a major league backstop, while Aaron Hick has all five tools and Kevin Slowey is a proven winner at the Major League level (over 2+ seasons worth of starts: 34-20) and is only 26.

          • nick1538 5 years ago

            I think the Twins are already in a bidding war if they offered Kevin Slowey or Aaron Hicks PLUS Wilson Ramos. Ramos might not be the blue chipper some say he is, but he is going to be a major league backstop, while Aaron Hick has all five tools and Kevin Slowey is a proven winner at the Major League level (over 2+ seasons worth of starts: 34-20) and is only 26.

      • TwinsVet 5 years ago

        Absolutely. Not like he’s guaranteed to win those 4-5 starts, or Slowey is guaranteed to lose them in his place. In all reality we’re probably talking a 1-2 win difference.

        Sorry, but Slowey + Ramos / Hicks + Ramos / etc. is not worth it. 6 years of Hicks for 1-2 wins this season? That’s asinine.

        You’ll get Ramos and a B-level guy in a few weeks, and you’ll like it.

    • Do you want to wait the remaining 3 weeks and lose the 4-5 starts he gives you?

    • I don’t agree. One huge factor is that so many teams are in the race. I could be off here, but it seems like the division/WC races are tighter than usual this year. The largest lead is Texas with 4.5 games over the Angels. The more teams in the race, the more buyers, and that’s going to keep the price high.

    • I don’t agree. One huge factor is that so many teams are in the race. I could be off here, but it seems like the division/WC races are tighter than usual this year. The largest lead is Texas with 4.5 games over the Angels. The more teams in the race, the more buyers, and that’s going to keep the price high.

    • bflaff 5 years ago

      JP Ricciardi never backed off of the sun, the moon, and the stars for Halladay last year, and all it cost him was his job. Jack Z is dealing from a position of weakness but that won’t stop him from acting otherwise. I guess he sees Lee as a golden ticket who can fix all the team’s holes, but sometimes you have to bow to reality. GMs seem to remember the outlier deals (Teixeira to the Braves) and they make that their minimum standard.

      • CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

        Weakness? This is one of the most competitive trading markets it recent memory.

        You have the Yankees, Sox and Rays all withing a few games. You have the Twins, White Sox and Tigers all in it. You have the Rangers starting to lose a little ground to the Angels. You have The Reds fighting tooth and nail with the Cards. You have the Mets GM trying to win and keep his job.

        Weakness???? Jack has BY FAR the best pitcher available and who happens to make peanuts. Lee is literally an option for half of baseball and if this Hicks/Ramos offer is true, he just got himself a TON more leverage by already having a big offer in his pocket.

        Jackie Z is sitting about as pretty as can be.

        • Muggi 5 years ago

          He’s sitting pretty NOW, but he can’t sit there forever. Ask Bill Smith or JPR how that turns out.

      • Msforever 5 years ago

        Weakness huh. You’re right, nobody wants Cliff Lee. His stock is so low right now. Hopefully we’ll be able to pry Blackburn away from the Twins in a straight swap for Lee.

      • crashcameron 5 years ago

        uh, there was a teeny bit more to JP Ricciardi losing his job

      • crashcameron 5 years ago

        uh, there was a teeny bit more to JP Ricciardi losing his job

  30. TwinsVet 5 years ago

    I suspect Seattle’s price will start dropping rapidly as the deadline approaches. Should we really take it seriously when a seller starts a negotiation with an incredibly high asking price?

  31. Spirit of '69 5 years ago

    Seattle can do better than Upton, they have serious leverage and a lot of teams interested. They should do very, very well. As much as I’d like to see the Mets get Lee I think the sleeper team is Cincinnati. They are contenders right now and can also afford to rent him to see how far they can go.

    • Gunner65 5 years ago

      Rent him at the right price & I am all for it … if this Francisco rumor is true … count me in on him & Alonso in a deal

      • Spirit of '69 5 years ago

        I just the sense the vibe from the Reds is they feel the dice are hot and they’re going to roll ’em. Normally seen as a more conservative team from a historic baseball town, haven’t been in the post-season for a long time, fans have waited long enough. If they don’t land Lee it’ll only be because someone else made a ridiculous offer. I think they’re going for it.

        • Gunner65 5 years ago

          I hope you are right that they are after him … I just hope they don’t send a package like Alonso, Heisey & Wood for him … giving up that much talent could set the farm system back a few years lol

          • I don’t think you have to worry about the Reds giving that much up Jocketty is a good smart man. He knows he has to pay to get Lee but at the same time he is not going to give up future success that the team is having now to get Lee. A deal with Alonso and Fransisco and maybe a minor league pitcher that has upside to him would do it. Or perhaps give them Heisey and Alonso and someone else. I don’t wanna see wood get traded he has been pretty consistant in the minors doing a nice job. I don’t think he is a number 1 pitcher but he could be a nice 2 or 3 starter.

      • Spirit of '69 5 years ago

        I just get the sense that the vibe from the Reds is they feel the dice are hot and they’re going to roll ’em. It’s a great, historic franchise with very supportive fans who’ve waited way too long since the team was last in the post-season. I think they’re going for it.

  32. Spirit of '69 5 years ago

    Seattle can do better than Upton, they have serious leverage and a lot of teams interested. They should do very, very well. As much as I’d like to see the Mets get Lee I think the sleeper team is Cincinnati. They are contenders right now and can also afford to rent him to see how far they can go.

  33. mnrunleft 5 years ago

    Is Upton really that appealing at somewhere around $7 million after arbitration next year? Yeah some teams are going to like his potential but it’s not like he’s cheap.

  34. mnrunleft 5 years ago

    Is Upton really that appealing at somewhere around $7 million after arbitration next year? Yeah some teams are going to like his potential but it’s not like he’s cheap.

  35. RBRCPA 5 years ago

    I still don’t understand how the Braves only got CASEY KOTCHMAN for Mark Teixeira 2 years ago. Mind blowing. Every year some team breaks the bank for a rental player, sometimes giving up 2 blue chippers & another guy. We couldn’t even get ONE?

    • Just_MLB 5 years ago

      whats worse the fact you gave up 3 good players for him…had that been Omar Minaya making that deal…there would’ve been picket signs around Citifield

  36. RBRCPA 5 years ago

    I still don’t understand how the Braves only got CASEY KOTCHMAN for Mark Teixeira 2 years ago. Mind blowing. Every year some team breaks the bank for a rental player, sometimes giving up 2 blue chippers & another guy. We couldn’t even get ONE?

  37. mnrunleft 5 years ago

    I don’t think teams usually get 2 blue chips from a rental, look a the CC deal 2 years ago, they got 1 blue chip prospect in LaPorta and he still hasn’t lived up to expectations, they also got a couple other nice prospects but not top 10 prospects from the Brewers system. I don’t think Seattle gets more than 1 top prospect in a Lee deal.

  38. mnrunleft 5 years ago

    I don’t think teams usually get 2 blue chips from a rental, look a the CC deal 2 years ago, they got 1 blue chip prospect in LaPorta and he still hasn’t lived up to expectations, they also got a couple other nice prospects but not top 10 prospects from the Brewers system. I don’t think Seattle gets more than 1 top prospect in a Lee deal.

    • CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

      I agree. But that won’t stop Zduriencik from asking. Especially if he already has a Hicks/Ramos offer on the table. It would take 2 blue-chippers to trump it actually.

  39. Spirit of '69 5 years ago

    Call me crazy, but I think Seattle is going to get pretty close to whatever they want. Lee is a difference-maker for a wide array of teams; he takes a borderline contender to true division contender status. He takes a legitimate contender to World Series team. Someone is going to make them a ridiculous offer.

    • mnrunleft 5 years ago

      The same exact thing can be said about CC 2 years ago, anytime a top rental player comes up they can obviously help a number of teams. Would teams rather give up 2 top prospects for 3 months of Lee or 2 years and 3 months of Dan Haren?

      • Spirit of '69 5 years ago

        You’re absolutely right about CC, and he didn’t go to a team that normally makes a big splash at the deadline. I don’t know what the odds are on different teams getting Lee, but if I were a betting man I just might put some money on the Reds.

      • With so many teams extremely budget-conscious these days, it actually is a reasonable question to ask. Haren is owed lots of money over the next two years and change. Lee is owed only through the end of this year and then you’re off the hook. Plus, Arizona isn’t a motivated seller. They’ve been bad, but Haren under contract for the next two years isn’t something they have to get rid of. They can keep him unless someone blows them away.

        But I do agree with your point re: Sabathia. I think the real question is whether someone’s willing to give up quality instead of quantity. The two deals for Lee and the Sabathia trade involved 3-4 prospects, but mostly good, not great, prospects. I suspect that’s what teams are going to want to offer – a package of 3-4 good prospects – and are going to have Seattle ask for less prospects, but of better quality.

        • mnrunleft 5 years ago

          Arizona might not be motivated sellers but they certainly would entertain offers for Haren and if Seattle sets their price too high teams will certainly call Arizona to see what the cost of Haren would be. Teams that can’t add much if any payroll may not want Haren (Rangers and Dodgers) but anyone who is considering re-signing Lee could get Haren for a bargain salary compared to what Lee is going to ask for. Haren’s deal is actually pretty team friendly and I’m sure teams would be willing to pay that price for a front end starter if they have room in their budget. From the Twins perspective I think Haren being locked up for a couple more years at a reasonable price would certainly be tempting since $12.75 million is 2011 is a very reasonable number for a front of the rotation starter that the Twins know they can’t get in free agency.

  40. metsman 5 years ago

    enough of this pathetic power trip; I hope Seattle fades away and ends up with nothing, and I hope if some team ends legitimizing this whole powertrip by coughing up their only relevant prospects ends shut out of the post season. forget market pirinciples; logic is that the longer the wait the less Lee is worth, the more irelevant complete games they make him pitch, thats even worse forget the market frenzie stick to logic Omar let someone else play sucker. even if Thole Flores Martinez and Heavans could get it down it’s not worth it. I for one, don’t believe Lee makes or breaks anything for the Mets, even if everyone else does.

    • CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

      “..even if Thole Flores Martinez and Heavans could get it down it’s not worth it.”

      Its “Havens”, btw. Good piece of advice. Probably should learn how to spell your own prospect’s names before going on a rant.

    • I think that the Mets have way too many holes on their team to make selling the farm worth it. Their bullpen is very shaky due to Manuel’s overuse of certain players. I think if the Mets could trade for someone solid like Brett Myers would provide better value than giving up Meija and/or Flores to get Lee. Either way the Mets need another starter to allow Takahashi to move back to the bullpen.

  41. ducky66 5 years ago

    Seattle is going to overplay their hand and ask for the world like Toronto did last trade deadline and end up losing bidders. The difference is of course that Toronto had 1 year and 4 weeks to move Halladay where Seattle has 4 weeks and only that. If I were any of the GM’s involved in the discussions so far I wouldn’t call Zduriencik for the next week (and also wouldn’t return his calls) and at the same time start making a ton of noise around Oswalt and Haren and others. Seattle has to realize that while Lee is the most attractive pitcher out there (both in terms of quality but also contract) but he isn’t the only one out there. If Seattle doesn’t look out they are going to piss off some teams and lose bidders. At some point they have to realize that the market value for a guy like Lee has been set pretty reasonably set at one blue chipper and a couple of other B type prospects. I can’t fault Zduriencik for asking for the world but he better be a little careful and be very fluid in these talks or some of the teams are going to jump out the Lee pursuit and when a team jumps out it can be really difficult to get them to jump back in sometimes.

    • I don’t mean to be rude… but thanks for breaking it down for the under-teen demographic.

  42. Upton was a SS before being converted to CF and being promoted. I think his brother was too.

    • Upton was a SS who got converted to 3rd when he was called up again. He then got moved to 2nd base because of Akinori Iwamura. After that he was moved to CF because Aki was moved to 2nd as the Rays had some kid named Longoria.

      • so think maybe we might try and put him back at one of those spots? Just a idea?

        • Uh no. If Seattles dumb enough to center a deal around him they need to take it and not look back. Maybe Upton+Wade Davis+a couple more prospects. Zobrist plays center fine.

          • Theres a reason hes in the outfield

          • Yankees420 5 years ago

            Zobrist has played CF in only 20 major league games, so I don’t think you can know whether or not his defense would be good in center.

  43. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    I wonder what reasons, other than “The Yanks always go after the big names and spend tons of money and are bad for baseball….blah, blah, blah”, these writers are using to base the rumors that the Yanks are pursuing Lee on? I mean their rotation is far from their worst, most-needed-to-be-addressed issue. CC, Pettite, Hughes and Vazquez are looking better and AJ is owed to much to be moved.

    Add on top of that, Montero’s struggles in AAA and the asking price for Lee and the fact that it’s only a rental and I simply don’t see the Yanks making a deal for him. I think they’ll engage enough to drive the price up like they did for Santana and Halladay but in the end I see them going after IF and bullpen help first.

  44. YanksFanSince78 5 years ago

    On another note, someone mentioned Posada won’t be back next year. He has 1 more year left on his deal and Montero looks far from ready to take over for him. At 20 yo and a .250 avg and 6 hrs in AAA I think the Yanks will allow him as much time as he needs to find his stroke and to improve his catching skills, which oddly enough, is the one thing that scouts are raving about this year.

  45. sonofkenny 5 years ago

    The way the Twins have played since April a rental player ain’t gonna do it. They need to sign a stud ace for more than one year, and upgrade the middle relief, or just bag it. They ain’t gonna get anywhere with the staff they have now…

    • BattingThird_Number34 5 years ago

      That doesn’t make sense. Lee may not “do it” for this season, but he should put them in the playoffs. If all they need is a stud SP and middle relief, then trading for Lee and putting the left out SP in the pen would do both of those things. I agree that next year is far from certain if they can’t sign Lee (which they probably can’t), but that isn’t the point of this trade. Would you prefer they not trade for Lee and finish in second this year?

      • sonofkenny 5 years ago

        Making the playoffs isn’t really good enough anymore. And as a lifelong Twins fan I realize that is really saying something good about how far they have come. Just renting Lee is still not likely to get them to the Series. Meanwhile they aren’t going to be able to sign him long term, and they have shelled out two top prospects and possibly a current starter for him. And no prospect of shoring up middle relief this year. I’d save those resources and try to make a deal in the offseason ( I have to admit I don’t know who might be available). I just don’t think it is worth that price for a marginal increase in their chance to go deep into the playoffs.

  46. $3081341 5 years ago

    I know were in need of a Catcher with some Pop, so why not wait till the off-season & sign Victor Martinez.

    • BattingThird_Number34 5 years ago

      …because then they wouldn’t get anything for Lee. I think it’s assumed that he is out of SEA after this year. Ramos, etc. may not be a sure thing, but he’s cheap and young.

  47. ZeroZeroZero 5 years ago

    A team would be silly to give away their 2 top prospects plus a 3rd guy for a few months rental of Cliff Lee when its going to cost them at least $100m (probably more like $115m) and 5 years to keep him after this year.

  48. Muggi 5 years ago

    Is it just me, or is this starting to smell an awful lot like The Santana Saga circa 2007?

    • twins33 5 years ago

      A little, and it’s very weird to be on the other side of it. I’m hoping the M’s overplay their hand. The Twins got junk for Santana, though many of the situational factors were different (no trade clause, negotiation window, etc.). Luckily they were able to turn the junk into something.

      I’m hoping the Twins can get a deal like that going in their favor.

    • twins33 5 years ago

      A little, and it’s very weird to be on the other side of it. I’m hoping the M’s overplay their hand. The Twins got junk for Santana, though many of the situational factors were different (no trade clause, negotiation window, etc.). Luckily they were able to turn the junk into something.

      I’m hoping the Twins can get a deal like that going in their favor.

  49. RazorShines 5 years ago

    If that’s the case then I will enjoy watching Lee on the Mets in the 2nd half and hopefully postseason

  50. RazorShines 5 years ago

    I predict Lee will be moved within 10 days after the All-Star break. His value will continue to depreciate the closer he gets to the Trade Deadline

  51. NYM866910 5 years ago

    The Mets have a “stud catcher close to the majors” in 23 year old Josh Thole and blue chip prospects in wilmer flores and Jenry Mejia, so why are the Twins front runners to get Lee??

    • CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

      Because Thole is not a stud catcher. His defense is in question and he’s a Sally at the plate.

  52. NYM866910 5 years ago

    The Mets have a “stud catcher close to the bigs” in 23 year old Josh Thole and have blue chip prospects Ruben Tejada, Wilmer Flores, Jenrry Mejia, and Fernando Martinez. So why are the Twins front-runners to get Lee??

    • Muggi 5 years ago

      Because Thole doesn’t project to be a “stud”, he’s expected to be a light-hitting C who’s decent but not fantastic behind the plate; not nearly the player Ramos projects to be. F-Mart’s stock is WAAY down. The Mariners have already said they “like but don’t love” Mejia. Flores is in A-ball (M’s have already said they want guys close to MLB) and Tejada is NOT a blue-chip prospect – dunno why you’d think he was.the Mets have some nice pieces, but Mejia and maybe Flores are the only guys that come close to the trade value of Ramos and neither seem to fit what the M’s are asking for.

    • coolstorybro222 5 years ago

      Because…they have better prospects and Josh thole is a medicore catcher?

    • coolstorybro222 5 years ago

      Because…they have better prospects and Josh thole is a medicore catcher?

  53. If the Rangers sale goes through, it think they are clearly a frontrunner for Lee. They have so many up and coming prospects. Both hitters and pitchers. They have the best farm system in the majors. I would happily give up 1-2 good prospects plus a veteran like Harden (not that hes good…just for the salary) for Lee.

    • CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

      It probably take 3 good prospects if they want to dump Harden on us.

  54. 55legend 5 years ago

    OMG if Cliff Lee goes to the Yankees, we’re looking at a three peat world series down the run T____T. how corrupted

  55. Lee is going to texas.

  56. Lee is going to texas.

  57. CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

    Texas has plenty of minor league talent to offer, but they don’t appear to be willing to move Tanner Scheppers or Martin Perez according to Sullivan. Derek Holland, Blake Beavan, Chris Davis, Justin Smoak, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia could all be fair game.

    That seems a little misinformed. Scheppers is untouchable but Smoak is in play? Doubt that much. But I would have to think Zduriencik would require one of Smoak, Perez or Holland in any deal with Texas. Especially if money is exchanged or Harden is added.

  58. CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

    Texas has plenty of minor league talent to offer, but they don’t appear to be willing to move Tanner Scheppers or Martin Perez according to Sullivan. Derek Holland, Blake Beavan, Chris Davis, Justin Smoak, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia could all be fair game.

    That seems a little misinformed. Scheppers is untouchable but Smoak is in play? Doubt that much. But I would have to think Zduriencik would require one of Smoak, Perez or Holland in any deal with Texas. Especially if money is exchanged or Harden is added.

  59. CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

    Jason Churchill from Prospect Insider has heard that the Mariners have told Texas that a package around Justin Smoak is a must. Texas replied that they would “get back to them”.

    So Smoak not off limits maybe? Could be a big turn of events.

  60. CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

    Jason Churchill from Prospect Insider has heard that the Mariners have told Texas that a package around Justin Smoak is a must. Texas replied that they would “get back to them”.

    So Smoak not off limits maybe? Could be a big turn of events.

  61. crashcameron 5 years ago

    Cliff Lee and Ichiro for Roy Halladay and Ryan Howard!!!!!
    yeeha

  62. crashcameron 5 years ago

    Cliff Lee and Ichiro for Roy Halladay and Ryan Howard!!!!!
    yeeha

  63. Rangersalltheway 5 years ago

    Jurrjensftw put Chris Davis in instead of smoak and we are good!

  64. diesel2410 5 years ago

    Crawford could possibly leave, but the Rays are clearing salary next year to try and keep him. We cleared Burrell, probably Pena and probably Soriano. I think Wheeler will also leave which would free $3.5 million as well. Kapler obviously should go, and same with Navarro, clearing another $3+ million. If we can clear Upton as well, it should work out.

  65. dc21892 5 years ago

    Crawford will only come back if he feels they have a legit chance of winning. The more payroll the clear, the more chance he just walks. Boston, or either NY team seem like the only spots for Crawford. Not to mention, the Red Sox or Yankees can blow the Rays out of the water when it comes to offering him a deal, so could the Mets if they’re willing to do so. Money and having a chance to win every year or less money and not sure where your team is going to be? The Rays don’t get enough fan support and it’s too bad because if they did they would have a chance to keep this team together for many years to come. Better hope they start freeing up money now so they have enough when Longoria is a FA.

  66. jjt4444 5 years ago

    Agreed, but really if you think about it, any team could say this…if that team is willing to overpay, that is. The Yanks have what the M’s really want (Montero) so they know if they really want Lee, they can structure a package around Montero and get him.

  67. aap212 5 years ago

    Montero is a better prospect than anyone being mentioned from any other team, he’s probably the best blocked prospect in baseball, and he fits a specific need for the Mariners. I don’t think it’s cockiness.

  68. aap212 5 years ago

    Montero is a better prospect than anyone being mentioned from any other team, he’s probably the best blocked prospect in baseball, and he fits a specific need for the Mariners. I don’t think it’s cockiness.

  69. Who the hell wants Matsuzaka? He isn’t good. You have to give up something to get something. Of course Lee would help the Sox, but they have many needs right now. Plus, they aren’t a really young team, so you really have to think about if and which prospects are getting traded. As I said before, you really have to know or have already resigned Lee for a deal to work. It isn’t worth it for a half season rental. The Red Sox bullpen has been D-backs bad. Reinforcing it is probably a better and cheaper option.

  70. dc21892 5 years ago

    And the Red Sox are fine with that because they have plenty of money to spend this year to add 2 or 3 premiere free agents if they wanted :]

  71. Yankees420 5 years ago

    There is are reasons everyone is “hellbent” on the Yankee signing Lee in the offseason. Namely the fact that in 2011 they only have 3 of their 5 SP under contract (CC, AJ, Hughes) and with Pettitte likely retiring and Vazquez most likely gone via FA, there is a pretty big need for a starter; and since it’s the Yankees, they’d like to get the best FA starter available, and if Pettitte retires and Vazquez is off the books, then Lee will fit into the budget even after resigning Mo and Jeter.

    Posada will definitely still be in NY next season because his bat is valuable to the Yankees and he’s being paid 13.1MM dollars, and given the fact that Montero seems to be struggling to the tune of a .258/.328/.410 line in AAA, it’s probably a good thing that Posada is still there next season.

    It’s looking more and more like the Yankees will have no need for Crawford, Brett Gardner is capable of doing everything he can (minus HR power) and is dirt cheap, the OF looks set with Granderson, Gardner, and Swisher.

  72. The M’s have a catching prospect. They have a greater need for a 1B/DH type player.

  73. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    The Yankees also know that Montero’s bat has amazing potential, and that he will NOT be a catcher, as he can’t receive worth a damn (I think he has 12 past balls already?).

    The Yankees will more than likely not be making this trade, unless Lee does a 360 and GUARANTEES the Yanks that he WILL sign an extension upon being traded.

  74. I wasn’t trying to attack you, but let’s be realistic.

  75. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    This website is actually for providing us with all the news about players, trades, and so much more.

    It’s some of the people that comment here that do that.

    I do believe you should tone it down.

  76. Just_MLB 5 years ago

    but lee is far from the last set of batteries available…

    oswalt
    haren
    lilly

  77. metsman 5 years ago

    first off I sound like anything it’s bitter maybe…last I heard my team is leading the wild card and two games out in the division with Beltran on his way back so I don’t know where you detect jealousy of the Mariners. and your lame little economics 101 analogy is completely uneccessary since I aknowledged the market in my post but if it made you feel smart to write that congrats. I was making the point that while it might drive the price to “showcase” Lee and drag out the trade; every day that goes by makes Lee’s trade impact a little less regardless of what it does for the Mariners returns, and I’m about as sick of hearing people over value him as I am of hearing people speculate where LeBron is going. The best GM’s out there have already made up their minds as to the limit of their offer and won’t give into the hype.

  78. aap212 5 years ago

    Montero IS a 1B/DH type. Few people think he’ll be a catcher in the majors, and even if he could be, his bat is far more advanced than his glove, so the prudent thing would be to move him. Like Carlos Delgado, as Kevin Goldstein put it.

  79. CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

    One, Oswalt is owed 25+ million dollars and is not as good as Lee. So if Lee is a $100 box of Duracell batteries, Oswalt is $250 for 2 boxes of generic batteries.

    Two, Haren would be 2 boxes of Duracells but it would cost you $200 plus your first born.

    Three, Lilly.. Hmmm. Lilly is like a couple batteries that are already pretty much used up but were stuck in the freezer to get a little more life out of them.

    Bottom line. Lee was just given the pitcher of the month award for June. He is the best pitcher on the planet right now and isn’t owed a jillion dollars. He’s literally an option for every team in contention. Supply and demand.

  80. CrustyJuggler 5 years ago

    If I had a choice of where Lee would re-sign other than Seattle, it would definitely be the Twins. The Twins and Mariners are very similar franchises.

  81. BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

    In his defense, the Rays for a very long time were hitting around the Mendoza line with the bases empty.

    I haven’t look at those numbers recently (recently meaning the past 3 weeks about), so I’m not entirely sure how it looks now.

  82. ejr 5 years ago

    to be fair, they have been no-hit twice this year. and 3 times since July 2009. even if they are killing the ball otherwise, they have fairly or unfairly earned a reputation as being incapable of hitting.

  83. Just_MLB 5 years ago

    Lets look at facts…

    Oswalt this year has 17 starts….14 of them resulted in 3 ER’s or
    less…10 games with 7 or more K’s….plus he would go from a band-box with
    poor defense behind to a pitcher’s ballpark with decent defense behind
    him…
    far from generic batteries…
    Oswalt is owed 16 million…plus a 2 million dollar buyout….not
    25….Oswalt’s contract runs to age 34….so even picking up his option

    getting lee would be overkill if u can get oswalt AND keep your top
    prospects…its a compromise of getting better now…and not giving up your
    future just yet…the astros said they would take less on prospects if the
    trade partner takes on Oswalt’s entire contract…NYM can leverage their
    ability to absorb salary combined with the fact that there will be alot of
    money coming off the books soon ( beltran/castillo/perez…possibly k-rod)

    Mets need a #3 starter….not a #1 or even a #2…

    trading flores or mejia for lee would be like taking out a 100,000 loan to
    fix up your steering wheel….yes you need a steering wheel…but not at
    that cost

  84. raffish 5 years ago

    Flores or Meija? I’d be surprised if it didn’t take both to keep the Mets in the discussion. Oswalt has handled very weak offenses this year. It’s pathetic, really, the competition he has faced. Put that guy in the AL, or more realistically, put him up against the best few offenses in the NL, and I’m willing to bet that ERA/FIP/XFIP/whatever hikes upward a few notches. Can you imagine what Lee would do if he faced SF x3, COL x2, ARI, PIT, etc., or he got to face CHI a second time, CIN a second time, etc.? Oswalt pitched decent vs PHI and CHI in weeks two and three, and later vs MIL (which isn’t anything special). He came to TEX and got whooped, and other than one start vs KC he hasn’t faced AL lineups, (and KC is hardly imposing). Oswalt is suspect. Untested in 2010. He’s a paper bull. Put him against some real competition before you pay 25 million to acquire that #3 starter or whatever it is you think you need.

  85. Yankees420 5 years ago

    Longoria is under contract until 2013, with club options running until 2016, so I don’t think the Rays need to be planning that far into the future.

  86. Msforever 5 years ago

    I think that’s pretty close to what the Mariners will want.

  87. Msforever 5 years ago

    I think that’s pretty close to what the Mariners will want.

  88. Just_MLB 5 years ago

    smh at your hyperbole…it disguises the truth…first off….the
    Phils…esp in the beginning of the season …were FAR from just decent…he
    held the phils to 2 ER….and only lost cuz Halliday was lights out…
    Lee faced SDP and got whooped…so i guess he can’t handle NL west
    pitching???
    thats the logic you are using here.

    Oswalt has faced 4 of the top 6 NL offenses this year and handled them
    well…CIN, COL, PHI, MIL

    and again…the mets already have a #1 and #2 starter, the mets already play
    in a pitchers ballpark…oswalt plays in a lil league bandbox in
    houston,…so getting Lee would be overkill for what they need…( if they
    have to give up flores/mejia + more prospects )

    if getting oswalt involves only giving up 1 or 2 low prospects and just
    absorbing his salary…that will accomplish BOTH goals of improving enough
    now without mortgaging your future…CF, possibly RF, 2B, C, closer and the
    4/5 spots in the rotation may be vacant in the upcoming seasons..and
    plus…trading for oswalt now, then attempting to sign Lee in the off-season
    would give the mets BOTH pitchers…trading for Lee now, assures them they
    wont be able to trade for Oswalt…

    ( of course me wishing for both is just a fantasy, these are the wilpons
    after all )

  89. Just_MLB 5 years ago

    smh at your hyperbole…it disguises the truth…first off….the
    Phils…esp in the beginning of the season …were FAR from just decent…he
    held the phils to 2 ER….and only lost cuz Halliday was lights out…
    Lee faced SDP and got whooped…so i guess he can’t handle NL west
    pitching???
    thats the logic you are using here.

    Oswalt has faced 4 of the top 6 NL offenses this year and handled them
    well…CIN, COL, PHI, MIL

    and again…the mets already have a #1 and #2 starter, the mets already play
    in a pitchers ballpark…oswalt plays in a lil league bandbox in
    houston,…so getting Lee would be overkill for what they need…( if they
    have to give up flores/mejia + more prospects )

    if getting oswalt involves only giving up 1 or 2 low prospects and just
    absorbing his salary…that will accomplish BOTH goals of improving enough
    now without mortgaging your future…CF, possibly RF, 2B, C, closer and the
    4/5 spots in the rotation may be vacant in the upcoming seasons..and
    plus…trading for oswalt now, then attempting to sign Lee in the off-season
    would give the mets BOTH pitchers…trading for Lee now, assures them they
    wont be able to trade for Oswalt…

    ( of course me wishing for both is just a fantasy, these are the wilpons
    after all )

  90. raffish 5 years ago

    When Lee faced SD the first time he was up by 15 runs and took it easy. MIL is mediocre at best. CIN wasn’t playing well at the beginning of the season. Let Oswalt face ATL, STL, LAD, then consider him vs a real offense the likes of what Lee faces every day. Maybe overkill, but what are the NYM’s trying to accomplish here?

  91. Just_MLB 5 years ago

    u said let him face the top NL offenses…
    Oswalt has faced 4 of the top 6 run-scoring NL offenses…
    when oswalt faced the reds, they had scored 46 runs in their previous 8
    games…thats far from slumping…

    what the mets need is a good pitcher they can squeeze into their
    rotation…getting lee fits the bill of course…but so does getting
    oswalt…if the goal is to get a playoff spot…a 1-4 of
    santana/oswalt/pelfrey/niese and moving takahashi to the pen would be more
    than enough…at that point, their biggest concerns wouldnt be their
    rotation but their situational hitting and bullpen management…

    currently the mets have the 6th best ERA in all of baseball…currently the
    mets are 3 games out of 1st place…adding oswalt and moving tak to the pen
    would be more than enough to get by…

    the pink elephant in the room is ollie perez…

  92. a 360 would put him back to where he is…just sayin

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