Heyman On Haren, Oswalt, Lilly, Piniella

One GM tells Jon Heyman of SI.com that there are plenty of complementary pieces available on the trade market, but few impact players. That echoes what Theo Epstein said earlier in the week: there’s not a ton of All-Star caliber talent available at the moment. Here's what Heyman is reporting on the market for starting pitchers:

  • One general manager hears that interim GM Jerry DiPoto is asking for two starters plus bullpen help in exchange for Dan Haren. Wow.
  • Another GM says every member of the D’Backs is available “except Justin Upton and maybe Ian Kennedy.”
  • No team appears willing to commit to the $25MM or so remaining on Roy Oswalt’s contract. Some GMs believe Oswalt wants his 2012 option picked up at $16MM if he is traded.
  • A few GMs believe the Mets make sense as a destination for Ted Lilly.
  • One GM doesn’t get the impression that the Blue Jays would move young starters like Shaun Marcum.
  • People connected to the Cubs expect manager Lou Piniella to retire after the season when his contract expires. Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg could replace Piniella as Cubs skipper.


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103 Comments on "Heyman On Haren, Oswalt, Lilly, Piniella"


Ferrariman
5 years 1 month ago

wait, the two starters and BP help, are they referring to 2 minor league starters and BP help or 2 guys already in the majors.

icedrake523
5 years 1 month ago

If the latter, I’m sure the Mets could spare John Maine and Oliver Perez.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Would the Tigers pony up Turner, Oliver, and one of their young flamethrowers?
Would the Cardinals pony up Miller, Garcia, and Sanchez?
Would the Reds pony up (pick ’em)?
Would the Twins pony up a package headlined by Gibson?

I have no idea where teams’ threshold for pain is in terms of their farm systems.

Ferrariman
5 years 1 month ago

i can tell you right now that Garcia alone is an overpay for haren.

jwredsox
5 years 1 month ago

A pitcher with a low K rate whose early season success was due to high high GB rate which has since lowered? A pitcher who strikes out only 7.2 per game and has as low of a GB% as he has had recently doesn’t have much upside in the majors. Plus he is walking over 3 per game too. Point: It isn’t overpay.

Ferrariman
5 years 1 month ago

im confused who is the pitcher with the low K rate? surely ur not referring to shelby miller who is “only” striking guys out at a 12.7k/9 inning clip. and that was before yesterday when he had a 5ip line with 8 K’s.and it cant be eduardo sanchez who is also striking out guys at a 9.4K/9inning clipwho is this mystery person??and u can’t seriously be faulting a guy coming off TJ surjery to be perfect in his first year back, can you? besides, Garcia is cost controlled for a long long time. while haren makes over 10million a year.

jwredsox
5 years 1 month ago

Yes I’m faulting Jaime. Not that I expect him to be perfect but he can’t still be feeling the affects of TJ surgery, he wouldn’t be pitching if he did.

Ferrariman
5 years 1 month ago

ok fine, fault a rookie. shows how much patience you have.

but please inform me who those other mystery players you were referring to were.

jwredsox
5 years 1 month ago

All of those were about Jaime

Ferrariman
5 years 1 month ago

ok fine, fault a rookie. shows how much patience you have.

but please inform me who those other mystery players you were referring to were.

jwredsox
5 years 1 month ago

Yes I’m faulting Jaime. Not that I expect him to be perfect but he can’t still be feeling the affects of TJ surgery, he wouldn’t be pitching if he did.

Ferrariman
5 years 1 month ago

im confused who is the pitcher with the low K rate? surely ur not referring to shelby miller who is “only” striking guys out at a 12.7k/9 inning clip. and that was before yesterday when he had a 5ip line with 8 K’s.and it cant be eduardo sanchez who is also striking out guys at a 9.4K/9inning clipwho is this mystery person??and u can’t seriously be faulting a guy coming off TJ surjery to be perfect in his first year back, can you? besides, Garcia is cost controlled for a long long time. while haren makes over 10million a year.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

And I could tell you right then that Haren alone was an overpay for Mulder. God Bless America!

Dermick
5 years 1 month ago

it would probably be Lance Lynn instead of Jaime Garcia

mrsjohnmiltonrocks
5 years 1 month ago

The D’Backs would, and should, say no to that.

Dermick
5 years 1 month ago

it would probably be Lance Lynn instead of Jaime Garcia

5 years 1 month ago

Turner AND Oliver? No. How about Galarraga and Oliver?
Want Dan Schlereth back?
Galarraga, Oliver, and Schlereth for Haren and Drew?
Substitute any position player prospect for any of the above.

Dermick
5 years 1 month ago

why would someone want a 28 year old righty who hasn’t been really successful?

jdub220
5 years 1 month ago

No thanks.Galarraga… well, he isn’t good. Has been putting up an xFIP over 5 for two years now.And Schlereth… he walks everybody. That’s why we traded him away in the first place.Galarraga, Oliver, and Schlereth isn’t enough for Haren, let alone Haren and Drew.Why would the D’Backs trade Haren, an ace, for a #5 starter/long reliever, a good but not great pitching prospect, and a reliever?

jdub220
5 years 1 month ago

No thanks.Galarraga… well, he isn’t good. Has been putting up an xFIP over 5 for two years now.And Schlereth… he walks everybody. That’s why we traded him away in the first place.Galarraga, Oliver, and Schlereth isn’t enough for Haren, let alone Haren and Drew.Why would the D’Backs trade Haren, an ace, for a #5 starter/long reliever, a good but not great pitching prospect, and a reliever?

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Galarraga is a back of the rotation starter. Yes, Turner and Oliver. Turner hasn’t done anything in pro ball yet. If a rental of Cliff Lee gets Smoak AND Beavan, then a locked up below market Haren should net AT LEAST that.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Galarraga is a back of the rotation starter. Yes, Turner and Oliver. Turner hasn’t done anything in pro ball yet. If a rental of Cliff Lee gets Smoak AND Beavan, then a locked up below market Haren should net AT LEAST that.

ToledoFan
5 years 1 month ago

Turner, Oliver and say Weinhardt would be doable.

The question is, what would the Dbacks think is fair to get Drew?

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

I still think the Tigers would have to get really creative to get both Diamondbacks. It’d be a huge package. Turner, Oliver, one of the big young relief arms, and Sizemore maybe?

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

I still think the Tigers would have to get really creative to get both Diamondbacks. It’d be a huge package. Turner, Oliver, one of the big young relief arms, and Sizemore maybe?

Sniderlover
5 years 1 month ago

I agree with that one GM who thinks it`s unlikely Jays will move Marcum. It would have to take a really blow-me-away offer to acquire Marcum. Jays staff is too young and inexperienced and Marcum is a great young pitcher who is a great mentor for the kid and he is awesome in the clubhouse.

Next year may be a possibility though.

HerbertAnchovy
5 years 1 month ago

Agreed. He has the most experience (albeit 81 starts) out of anyone in the rotation.

5 years 1 month ago

Homer Bailey, (pick from Matt Maloney, Matt Klinker, Sam Lecure), and (pick from Enerio Del Rosario, Nick Masset, Daniel Herrera, or Jared Burton)

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Not nearly enough.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Not nearly enough.

5 years 1 month ago

Homer Bailey, (pick from Matt Maloney, Matt Klinker, Sam Lecure), and (pick from Enerio Del Rosario, Nick Masset, Daniel Herrera, or Jared Burton)

PujolsHollidayWestbrook
5 years 1 month ago

There isn’t a team in baseball that would pay that if it is the way it sounds. Especially if they are having to take on Haren’s contract as well. The Cardinals don’t have the goods to get him. I would be much happier to look at other D-Backs, especially Stephen Drew. What about Stephen Drew and Rodrigo Lopez for Brenden Ryan, Lance Lynn, Fernando Salas, Daryl Jones, and maybe lower level guy? What do you think?

PujolsHollidayWestbrook
5 years 1 month ago

There isn’t a team in baseball that would pay that if it is the way it sounds. Especially if they are having to take on Haren’s contract as well. The Cardinals don’t have the goods to get him. I would be much happier to look at other D-Backs, especially Stephen Drew. What about Stephen Drew and Rodrigo Lopez for Brenden Ryan, Lance Lynn, Fernando Salas, Daryl Jones, and maybe lower level guy? What do you think?

nnother1
5 years 1 month ago

From TFA:
“2. Joakim Soria, Royals, relief pitcher. It’s a long shot that he’ll go anywhere… But if he becomes available — and that’s a big “if” — it’ll be a feeding frenzy.”

You could write the same thing about Mariano Rivera.

jwredsox
5 years 1 month ago

Yes but Mariano isn’t going to be traded while there is a chance Soria will.

jwredsox
5 years 1 month ago

Yes but Mariano isn’t going to be traded while there is a chance Soria will.

PileOfSandwich
5 years 1 month ago

what “feeding frenzy” would there really be for an aged over rated closer really?

5 years 1 month ago

lol, overrated? I don’t think so.

5 years 1 month ago

He is so overrated, when i was watching the all-star game the announcers kept saying that if it was a close game to the end the NL had a chance to win because no Mariano to close it out, I mean come on there are plenty of other players that could close a game its just BS to give him that much attention and saying you cant win because hes not pitching is a joke.

PileOfSandwich
5 years 1 month ago

They treat him like a god, but he has choked more times then I can count. He WAS amazing…. like 10 years ago. Now he is just living off of what he used to be. Don’t be a homer he is an average reliever now.

bjsguess
5 years 1 month ago

Dude – I can only hope that you are joking.

Rivera hasn’t posted a FIP above 3 since 2000. Right now he is sitting at 2.27 with an ERA just a bit over 1. How is that overrated?

Rivera has been just as crucial to Yankee success over the past 15 years as Jeter or Posada. The guy is an absolute stud. And this is coming from a Yankee hater.

bjsguess
5 years 1 month ago

Dude – I can only hope that you are joking.

Rivera hasn’t posted a FIP above 3 since 2000. Right now he is sitting at 2.27 with an ERA just a bit over 1. How is that overrated?

Rivera has been just as crucial to Yankee success over the past 15 years as Jeter or Posada. The guy is an absolute stud. And this is coming from a Yankee hater.

Sleepykarl
5 years 1 month ago

Trivia, what pitcher holds the record for the best career ERA+? Overrated closers are guys like Feliz and recent Papelbon.

Sleepykarl
5 years 1 month ago

Trivia, what pitcher holds the record for the best career ERA+? Overrated closers are guys like Feliz and recent Papelbon.

BentoBox
5 years 1 month ago

If my team have a reliever that is as reliable as Mo, I’d treat him like a God too.

BentoBox
5 years 1 month ago

If my team have a reliever that is as reliable as Mo, I’d treat him like a God too.

PileOfSandwich
5 years 1 month ago

They treat him like a god, but he has choked more times then I can count. He WAS amazing…. like 10 years ago. Now he is just living off of what he used to be. Don’t be a homer he is an average reliever now.

icedrake523
5 years 1 month ago

Rivera isn’t overrated. He’s not in his prime anymore, but he’s still the best closer in the game. There’s no one I would rather have as my team’s closer.

5 years 1 month ago

I understand and completely agree he is in fact the best closer, but what i am trying to say is that people cant just say that just because Mariano is not pitching your team has zero chance to win. Come give other people in the game credit they are all stars for a reason?

5 years 1 month ago

I understand and completely agree he is in fact the best closer, but what i am trying to say is that people cant just say that just because Mariano is not pitching your team has zero chance to win. Come give other people in the game credit they are all stars for a reason?

5 years 1 month ago

He is so overrated, when i was watching the all-star game the announcers kept saying that if it was a close game to the end the NL had a chance to win because no Mariano to close it out, I mean come on there are plenty of other players that could close a game its just BS to give him that much attention and saying you cant win because hes not pitching is a joke.

PileOfSandwich
5 years 1 month ago

what “feeding frenzy” would there really be for an aged over rated closer really?

mrsjohnmiltonrocks
5 years 1 month ago

Ted Lilly would be perfect for the Mets! Fly ball pitchers play well at Citi Field. He can play under intense scrutiny- Cubs fans are rough and tough on players, and they love him. He’s a fierce competitor who won’t wilt in the bright lights. He’s only under contract for the rest of the year, easy to let go, or if he does well, you get a leg up on bringing him back.

He is so perfect for the Mets, I’d say Minaya is negligent if he DOESN’T at least attempt to bring him in.

oleosmirf
5 years 1 month ago

I agree but it depends what they want in return…even though he is a type A, im not willing to give up Mejia, Thole, Flores, Havens or Nieuwenhuis.

oleosmirf
5 years 1 month ago

I agree but it depends what they want in return…even though he is a type A, im not willing to give up Mejia, Thole, Flores, Havens or Nieuwenhuis.

mrsjohnmiltonrocks
5 years 1 month ago

Let me add here, after looking at what the D’Backs are asking for Dan Haren, I’d say he’s really not available. That’s what the D’Backs are telling you by their demands, he’s yours ONLY if you make us an offer we can’t refuse.

He’s still under contract for 2 more years; the D’Backs can always but him out there next year or the year after too.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Unless they’re setting the bar really high and would be happy with something a tick below that if that’s the best they can get.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Unless they’re setting the bar really high and would be happy with something a tick below that if that’s the best they can get.

YanksFanSince78
5 years 1 month ago

I’m some what proud of the pitcher IPK has become in AZ. Obviously, the NL West is very condusive to his ability. I don’t think he would’ve faired the same in the AL East. Most surprisingly is the fact that the kid with the much maligned 90 mph fastball gas managed to amass a nifty 8 ko/per 9 rate and is sandwhiched in between some pretty good company (Latos and Jiminez). Good for you IPK. Oddly, of the three big Yankee prospect pitchers from 2007 (Hughes, Joba and IPK), the one with the best pure stuff is the one struggling the most right now (Joba). I truly think the Yankees messed things up by moving him back and forth. I’m almost willing to send him down to the minors for a month or so and let him regain his confidence.

5 years 1 month ago

Does Joba still have options? Because if not, he’d get claimed in an instant…

5 years 1 month ago

Does Joba still have options? Because if not, he’d get claimed in an instant…

YanksFanSince78
5 years 1 month ago

I’m some what proud of the pitcher IPK has become in AZ. Obviously, the NL West is very condusive to his ability. I don’t think he would’ve faired the same in the AL East. Most surprisingly is the fact that the kid with the much maligned 90 mph fastball gas managed to amass a nifty 8 ko/per 9 rate and is sandwhiched in between some pretty good company (Latos and Jiminez). Good for you IPK. Oddly, of the three big Yankee prospect pitchers from 2007 (Hughes, Joba and IPK), the one with the best pure stuff is the one struggling the most right now (Joba). I truly think the Yankees messed things up by moving him back and forth. I’m almost willing to send him down to the minors for a month or so and let him regain his confidence.

bjsguess
5 years 1 month ago

Shocked on Oswalt … only been saying that for a few months. You either get a team to assume the entire contract (which will include the option) OR you pick up a portion of the contract and get some decent talent back. No way someone pays all the freight on Oswalt AND pays for talent.

The DBacks must not realize that Haren is not the same guy this year as he has been in years past. That nifty 4.36 ERA is the highest of his career since 2004. He has been unlucky as FIP is showing a more generous 3.74. In any event, a team is not going to assume all of Haren’s contract + give up 2 ML Starters + another ML talent. Simply won’t happen. Way too steep of a price for Haren.

And Kennedy is untouchable? The guy has a FIP near 5. Once his BABIP regresses you are looking at a pitcher with an ERA in the 4.5 range. Not bad, especially at league minimum, but hardly untouchable.

bjsguess
5 years 1 month ago

Shocked on Oswalt … only been saying that for a few months. You either get a team to assume the entire contract (which will include the option) OR you pick up a portion of the contract and get some decent talent back. No way someone pays all the freight on Oswalt AND pays for talent.

The DBacks must not realize that Haren is not the same guy this year as he has been in years past. That nifty 4.36 ERA is the highest of his career since 2004. He has been unlucky as FIP is showing a more generous 3.74. In any event, a team is not going to assume all of Haren’s contract + give up 2 ML Starters + another ML talent. Simply won’t happen. Way too steep of a price for Haren.

And Kennedy is untouchable? The guy has a FIP near 5. Once his BABIP regresses you are looking at a pitcher with an ERA in the 4.5 range. Not bad, especially at league minimum, but hardly untouchable.

5 years 1 month ago

I’d love the mets to try to get a 3 way trade with the cubs and another team that would need an outfielder. Then maybe they can unload franceour if hes even worth anything and let Pagan play.

5 years 1 month ago

I’d love the mets to try to get a 3 way trade with the cubs and another team that would need an outfielder. Then maybe they can unload franceour if hes even worth anything and let Pagan play.

YanksFanSince78
5 years 1 month ago

Dan Haren is still an excellent pitcher. He simply has gone thru a rough start. Since June over the course of 8 starts he’s avg’d 7 IP and 2.5 ER. His walk to ko rate is still excellent (2nd in the NL behind Halladay) and his Ko/9 is still amongst the best (8th in the NL). Factor in that a team can have him for 3 years at less than market value (assuming he returns to TOR status) thru his 30, 31 and 32 age then 2 starting pitching prospects and a reliever seems reasonable.

YanksFanSince78
5 years 1 month ago

Dan Haren is still an excellent pitcher. He simply has gone thru a rough start. Since June over the course of 8 starts he’s avg’d 7 IP and 2.5 ER. His walk to ko rate is still excellent (2nd in the NL behind Halladay) and his Ko/9 is still amongst the best (8th in the NL). Factor in that a team can have him for 3 years at less than market value (assuming he returns to TOR status) thru his 30, 31 and 32 age then 2 starting pitching prospects and a reliever seems reasonable.

5 years 1 month ago

Why the hesitation to trade prospects who dream of growing up to be like Dan Haren, when you can have the real deal? Prospects are just that. Two blue chippers is too much, though, if they’re not picking up any salary in the deal.

For Oswalt, the Strohs still have to eat some salary if they expect more than a couple of B level prospects back. As a fan, I’d rather my owner pay the full salary and keep the prospects.

Gumby65
5 years 1 month ago

So, with no ground to stand on, Oswalt can “demand” a trade AND demand his next team pick up his option. Brilliant!

bjsguess
5 years 1 month ago

Oswalt isn’t demanding a trade (from what I’ve read). Instead he gave permission for the Astros to look for a trade partner. As for having his option picked up – that’s pretty standard for guys who have a NTC. It’s compensation for them waiving the right to be traded.

bjsguess
5 years 1 month ago

Oswalt isn’t demanding a trade (from what I’ve read). Instead he gave permission for the Astros to look for a trade partner. As for having his option picked up – that’s pretty standard for guys who have a NTC. It’s compensation for them waiving the right to be traded.