Odds & Ends: Jays, Haren, Nolasco, Lee, Hunter

Some links before Cliff Lee makes his Rangers' debut this evening…


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90 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Jays, Haren, Nolasco, Lee, Hunter"


not_brooks
5 years 1 month ago

I’d tell Torii Hunter that you’re supposed to get the best return possible, especially when you’re trading a gut like Cliff Lee.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. Everyone knows the Rangers were the best team in that division prior to the Lee trade. Now everyone knows that no one else has a chance. Look for the A’s to start selling soon.

HerbertAnchovy
5 years 1 month ago

I would agree. There is no unwritten rule! What makes Torii Hunter’s opinion valid? I think if he was ever a GM, he would want the best package as well.

mrsjohnmiltonrocks
5 years 1 month ago

You trade for the players that best fit your needs. If that’s within your division, you do it. Because of the potential future consequences, I would make sure to charge a premium for the trade. I think Seattle did that. Then the Rangers turned around and had Lowe added, so they’d have at least one pitcher that will stick around to cover the loss of the other pitchers in the deal.

The Rangers can take this chance because they have a solid farm system.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

It’s really irksome when a team makes the trade they want, instead of the trade your team wants.

baseballz
5 years 1 month ago

I still don’t know which package i would have prefered: One with Montero or Smoak ? Though, I think it would have been a no brainer had they included Nunez but what an overpayment, relative to the other Lee trades in the past year. I don’t think you can be too mad at the Mariners for how they acted because everyone knows the name of the game in baseball is to get the Yankees involved in any type of transaction – free agent or trade – so as to help jack up the price. Cashman knows he’s used more as a pawn in discussions with other teams more often then he is actually successful in trade talks or signings. Though i wonder how the players involved in each deal will progress. It may look as bad as all those people who swore the Twins would have no need for Jon Lester as Bucholz is sooo much better, i bet those people are laughing at themselves right now.

This deal looks like the one made when Santana was traded except instead of waiting and biding their time Jack Z took advantage of an enviable situation and didn’t wait for the deal to come to him. Sure it may not have been ethical, but, when you look at the Sanatana trade debacle any GM must be worried now about waiting too long and losing leverage on a depreciable product.

whitesoxfan424
5 years 1 month ago

I’m surprised the M’s didn’t trade to Yanks or Twins… with either Montero or Ramos, they’d get another solid catching prospect (although montero may not stay behind the plate). Rob Johnson doesn’t seem to be doing much and I’m not sure the M’s farm has much promise at catcher.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

They need a bopping first baseman as much as they need a catcher, and I’d rather get a true star possibility like Montero or Smoak than get a merely good player that fits a need like Ramos.

Dan Wohl
5 years 1 month ago

Roger Clemens was traded from the Blue Jays to the Yankees.
Kevin Millwood was traded from the Braves to the Phillies.
Mike Piazza was traded from the Marlins to the Mets.
Aramis Ramirez was traded from the Pirates to the Cubs.
Cliff Floyd was traded from the Marlins to the Expos.
Ellis Burks was traded from the Rockies to the Giants.

These are just off the top of my head. THERE IS NO UNWRITTEN RULE. Anyone who keeps echoing this falsehood (and I’ve noticed that there are certainly more than just Torii Hunter) is being willfully ignorant.

fishfan4life
5 years 1 month ago

Delgado from the Marlins to the Mets

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

LoDuca too. And Leiter.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

LoDuca too. And Leiter.

fishfan4life
5 years 1 month ago

Delgado from the Marlins to the Mets

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

Jeff Francoeur from the Braves to the Mets (best trade ever)
Johnny Estrada from the Phillies to the Braves
Scott Olsen from the Marlins to the Nationals

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

Jeff Francoeur from the Braves to the Mets (best trade ever)
Johnny Estrada from the Phillies to the Braves
Scott Olsen from the Marlins to the Nationals

raffish
5 years 1 month ago

torii hunter broke the unwritten rule by accusing others of breaking the unwritten rule. they really should write this stuff down.

alxn
5 years 1 month ago

let’s all freak out over 1 player’s opinion

14 Rocks
5 years 1 month ago

Wahhhhh….the Yankees are upset that another team got a player that they wanted. Now they know how the rest of the baseball world feels every time they go on a spending spree and buy up the best free agents.

damnitsderek
5 years 1 month ago

Being butthurt because two of your division rivals helped each other and it didn’t benefit your team isn’t an unwritten rule, Torii.

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

Haha I think that’s exactly what he meant.

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

Haha I think that’s exactly what he meant.

5 years 1 month ago

Its only an unwritten rule if the player is going to be around for a few seasons and will have a large impact on the divisional races. Texas has the AL West without Lee so the addition isn’t a slight to the Angels or Oakland. It doesn’t have long standing effects as Lee will most likely be out of the division next season.

Belandsexo
5 years 1 month ago

Man, Torii Hunter is stupid. The guy has an opinion on everything and seems to have no idea what he’s talking about most of the time.

5 years 1 month ago

Which is why he is a millionare and you are not.

scottandwtb
5 years 1 month ago

It’s an unwritten rule if you’re trading to the division leader while you’re still in striking distance or if the player will be under team control for more than half a season, but at this point the Mariners have no shot at winning the west.

Philip Marlowe
5 years 1 month ago

Yes, but it could end up really blowing up in the Rangers’ face. If Smoak reaches his potential, he’s under Mariner control for a long time, and that spells bad news for the Rangers, and of course, for Torii Hunter’s Angels. Hunter’s just ticked that two of his division rivals helped each other out and the Angels are still sinking without a decent 1B.

Philip Marlowe
5 years 1 month ago

Yes, but it could end up really blowing up in the Rangers’ face. If Smoak reaches his potential, he’s under Mariner control for a long time, and that spells bad news for the Rangers, and of course, for Torii Hunter’s Angels. Hunter’s just ticked that two of his division rivals helped each other out and the Angels are still sinking without a decent 1B.

fatjedi19
5 years 1 month ago

So let me get this straight. The Yanks thought a “deal was done” but thought the M’s were stalling because they were asking for a player the Yanks didn’t want to part with? Sounds to me like a deal wasn’t done. The Yanks were trying to shop a player who has an injury that could potentially linger for a long time. How come nobody’s complaining about the ethics surrounding that? As for the timing and Jack “using” the Yanks for a better deal, that’s why there’s a trade deadline. So you can let things develop and hopefully let better offers come along. There were a handful of players Jack targeted and the Rangers offered one of them up, plain and simple. Just because the Yankees didn’t get who they wanted for once, doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy. I don’t think we’re terribly worried if the Yanks don’t want to trade with us again.

Zack23
5 years 1 month ago

How is it not ethical? They didn’t hide the injury. It’s an ankle sprain; not like he’s a pitcher with a messed up shoulder or elbow.

fatjedi19
5 years 1 month ago

“Yankees officials went to bed after Thursday night’s game believing a deal had been finalized with the Mariners for Lee, pending acceptance of the physical reports on Yankees prospects Jesus Montero, David Adams and Zach McAllister.”

Operative words, “pending acceptance” In other words, deal not done. It wasn’t until the physical reports that the Mariners knew of Adams ankle injury. That to me is unethical.

Typical Yankees. Rub it everyone’s faces when they get who they want, and cry like babies when they don’t. Hate to tell it to you, there are 29 other teams in this league.

fatjedi19
5 years 1 month ago

“Yankees officials went to bed after Thursday night’s game believing a deal had been finalized with the Mariners for Lee, pending acceptance of the physical reports on Yankees prospects Jesus Montero, David Adams and Zach McAllister.”

Operative words, “pending acceptance” In other words, deal not done. It wasn’t until the physical reports that the Mariners knew of Adams ankle injury. That to me is unethical.

Typical Yankees. Rub it everyone’s faces when they get who they want, and cry like babies when they don’t. Hate to tell it to you, there are 29 other teams in this league.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

If Babe Ruth can be traded within a division, Torii Hunter can shut his pie hole.

icedrake523
5 years 1 month ago

Babe Ruth was actually sold which is even worse.

icedrake523
5 years 1 month ago

Babe Ruth was actually sold which is even worse.

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

People are against trading withing the division because of Ruth’s success in New York and the century of shame it brought onto the city of Boston. Sure, it is certainly a worst case scenario that you might trade the most popular athlete in the history of sports to your divisional rival, thus cementing their status as the most popular and valuable sports franchise in the world… but hey, you never know. That’s why you don’t trade within your division. Unless his name is Jeff Francoeur.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Shouldn’t they just be against making stupid trades? Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen wasn’t any less dumb because of the league change.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Shouldn’t they just be against making stupid trades? Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen wasn’t any less dumb because of the league change.

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

People are against trading withing the division because of Ruth’s success in New York and the century of shame it brought onto the city of Boston. Sure, it is certainly a worst case scenario that you might trade the most popular athlete in the history of sports to your divisional rival, thus cementing their status as the most popular and valuable sports franchise in the world… but hey, you never know. That’s why you don’t trade within your division. Unless his name is Jeff Francoeur.

D09
5 years 1 month ago

Desmond Jennings for Cliff Lee. Now we know why he isn’t a Ray.

icedrake523
5 years 1 month ago

There should be a written rule that Torii Hunter keep his mouth shut.

BaseballFanatic0707
5 years 1 month ago

I got it. Everytime Torii opens his mouth, the Angels forfeit a draft pick!

No? Not a good enough punishment?

icedrake523
5 years 1 month ago

They would run out of draft picks.

icedrake523
5 years 1 month ago

There should be a written rule that Torii Hunter keep his mouth shut.

johnsilver
5 years 1 month ago

That Sherman story is quite funny. The mariners just pulled a typical Scott Boras maneuver by shopping around the best offer they had available to them. So now the Yanks get FA’s (Tex last recall) the same way from having best deals shopped to them and now it’s not ok to have one they made shopped around? How ironic George Sherman.

johnsilver
5 years 1 month ago

That Sherman story is quite funny. The mariners just pulled a typical Scott Boras maneuver by shopping around the best offer they had available to them. So now the Yanks get FA’s (Tex last recall) the same way from having best deals shopped to them and now it’s not ok to have one they made shopped around? How ironic George Sherman.

fishfan4life
5 years 1 month ago

Haren is never gonna get dealt is seems.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Based on what? Their GM has been on the job ten minutes. How fast do you expect him to be able to trade the team’s second most valuable commodity, let alone actually do it?

fishfan4life
5 years 1 month ago

I just meant with all the rumors that have been circulating the past year or so. His name constantly brought up.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Based on what? Their GM has been on the job ten minutes. How fast do you expect him to be able to trade the team’s second most valuable commodity, let alone actually do it?

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

Haren has 2 more years plus an option. He will be dealt eventually. He is owed about $30 million which is reasonable for 2 + years of a guy like him, but I think a lot of teams are wary of taking on payroll right now.

I think the Reds would be a good fit for Haren, a rotation of Haren, Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Chapman would be pretty nasty.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

You think they could get Haren without trading one of those guys? I don’t think Bailey, Wood, etc. are enough for the Diamondbacks.

5 years 1 month ago

I think Alonso or Fransisco, Frazier, AA prospect, and Bailey would be sufficient for Haren

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

I disagree.

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

I was looking at the Reds top prospects and their top talent is largely position players. They only have a couple pitchers in their top 20 prospects, and most of their names are Chapman and Leake. I guess they don’t really line up if the D-backs are looking for young, controllable, quality arms. Yonder Alonso is a good trade piece, he is blocked by Votto at first base.

Homer Bailey sucks. He has no trade value.

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

Alonso isn’t that good, though. He was drafted high, but he has no defensive value, troublesome platoon splits, and hasn’t hit for power at the upper levels at all, when that was supposed to be his calling card. Francisco has no defensive home and swings at everything. Frazier has no defensive home and hasn’t hit. Mesoraco is hitting for the first time since being drafted. There’s no reason for the Diamondbacks to trade Haren to the Reds without getting one of the young big league starters.

5 years 1 month ago

I think Alonso or Fransisco, Frazier, AA prospect, and Bailey would be sufficient for Haren

aap212
5 years 1 month ago

You think they could get Haren without trading one of those guys? I don’t think Bailey, Wood, etc. are enough for the Diamondbacks.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

Agreed, though I think he’d look better in Phillies’ red :)He’s owed 12.75m for each of the next two seasons, with a 15.5m option for 2013 (3.5m buyout). Even with his numbers dropping a bit this year, that’s a very reasonable price.

Muggi
5 years 1 month ago

Agreed, though I think he’d look better in Phillies’ red :)He’s owed 12.75m for each of the next two seasons, with a 15.5m option for 2013 (3.5m buyout). Even with his numbers dropping a bit this year, that’s a very reasonable price.

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

Haren has 2 more years plus an option. He will be dealt eventually. He is owed about $30 million which is reasonable for 2 + years of a guy like him, but I think a lot of teams are wary of taking on payroll right now.

I think the Reds would be a good fit for Haren, a rotation of Haren, Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Chapman would be pretty nasty.

fishfan4life
5 years 1 month ago

Haren is never gonna get dealt is seems.

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Alright, looking at the prospects that Seattle got for Lee… Smoak is a stud, and Beaven is just going to be a 3rd starter at best… and the other two are garbage…

CrustyJuggler
5 years 1 month ago

Lueke can be a nice piece in the pen. He is running like a 12+ K rate. The guy misses bats and has a good idea where the ball is going. He’ll probably see the bigs this year since the Mariners bullpen is in shambles.

CrustyJuggler
5 years 1 month ago

Lueke can be a nice piece in the pen. He is running like a 12+ K rate. The guy misses bats and has a good idea where the ball is going. He’ll probably see the bigs this year since the Mariners bullpen is in shambles.

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

Leuke looks nasty! Did you look at his stats? He has a career 1.176 whip with 11.4 SO/9. He has 62 SO in 38.1 IP in 2010, which is 14.9 SO/9. He also has 12 saves. He is 25 though, which is kind of old for a AA player.

Lawson is OPSing .809 in AA. He has the highest OPS of all of Frisco’s regular position players in 2010. He is 24, which is also kind of old.

Beavan is having a decent year in AA and is only 21, but he has averaged only 5.2 SO/9 over his minor league career. He doesn’t walk a lot of batters, he is averaging 1.0 BB/9 in 2010 and 1.4 for his career. I find him the least interesting prospect in the bunch.

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Yes, I should have worded that a little differently…

I was just judging them by their age, and the fact that they’re at fairly low levels.
Also based on the fact that Baseball America did not place Lawson or Leuke in Texas’ top 30 prospects list, while Beavan is at No.17…

It pretty much says he threw hard in high school, and he’s had some trouble with velocity lately, but he’s starting to regain some… that, coupled with his rankin and his success this year, is why I regard him 2nd only to Smoak…

Guest
5 years 1 month ago

Yes, I should have worded that a little differently…

I was just judging them by their age, and the fact that they’re at fairly low levels.
Also based on the fact that Baseball America did not place Lawson or Leuke in Texas’ top 30 prospects list, while Beavan is at No.17…

It pretty much says he threw hard in high school, and he’s had some trouble with velocity lately, but he’s starting to regain some… that, coupled with his rankin and his success this year, is why I regard him 2nd only to Smoak…

roberty
5 years 1 month ago

Leuke looks nasty! Did you look at his stats? He has a career 1.176 whip with 11.4 SO/9. He has 62 SO in 38.1 IP in 2010, which is 14.9 SO/9. He also has 12 saves. He is 25 though, which is kind of old for a AA player.

Lawson is OPSing .809 in AA. He has the highest OPS of all of Frisco’s regular position players in 2010. He is 24, which is also kind of old.

Beavan is having a decent year in AA and is only 21, but he has averaged only 5.2 SO/9 over his minor league career. He doesn’t walk a lot of batters, he is averaging 1.0 BB/9 in 2010 and 1.4 for his career. I find him the least interesting prospect in the bunch.

damnitsderek
5 years 1 month ago

Bold words, dude. Bold words. Don’t forget how young Beavan still is, he’s got plenty of time to grow and develop, and Seattle’s pitching depth can allow them to be extremely patient with him if necessary. Like these other guys said, Lueke’s ceiling isn’t high, but he could always turn out to be a Mike Adams-type of pitcher who experiences success as a middle reliever. I wouldn’t be shocked if Lueke were a September call-up. Lawson’s numbers are good, but given his age, it’s more than likely he’ll be a utility guy if he makes the bigs. As a Mariners fan, that’s totally fine with me because Seattle is lacking a defensive-minded utility guy who can swing the stick from time to time.

It may not be the prettiest package of prospects ever acquired, but I’m more than happy with the return at this point.