Gammons On Martinez, Red Sox Bullpen, Crawford

Peter Gammons of the MLB Network and NESN made his weekly appearance on WEEI's The Big Show earlier today, and DJ Bean has the transcript. Let's round up the good stuff…

  • Gammons thinks the Victor Martinez situation could get dragged out all winter because the Red Sox do not want to sign him for four years as a catcher. That's the logic behind their two-year offer, they view him as a first baseman/designated hitter after the first two seasons and don't want to pay a premium for a guy playing a non-premium position.
  • The Manny Delcarmen trade was the first step in recreating the bullpen. Gammons notes that Boston once landed Bronson Arroyo "for a dollar," and the club could try a similar approach with the pen this offseason. Basically, they'll just bring guys in and see what sticks rather than sign one player to a big contract. Matt Fox may have been claimed with that very idea in mind. 
  • Gammons doesn't believe the Red Sox can afford to sign Carl Crawford, who he thinks will get seven years and $140MM. There is also some concern about the lineup being too lefty-heavy in a division with several top-of-the-line lefthanded pitchers.


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105 Comments on "Gammons On Martinez, Red Sox Bullpen, Crawford"


dizzle4
4 years 11 months ago

Doesn’t it feel like if you flip the calendar back a year, you could just replace “Victor Martinez” with “Jason Bay”, and “catcher” with “left fielder” and have the exact same situation?

dizzle4
4 years 11 months ago

Doesn’t it feel like if you flip the calendar back a year, you could just replace “Victor Martinez” with “Jason Bay”, and “catcher” with “left fielder” and have the exact same situation?

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

Sox need some changes. I see beltre leaving. But who could we play at third?

dizzle4
4 years 11 months ago

I see Beltre staying, for more or less that reason. I think Theo Epstein will try to get creative this off-season. I see them looking to deal Ellsbury and Papelbon to bring back some premium-position talent, and then going to free agency to try and sign Jayson Werth, an upgrade over Ellsbury anyways, and Scott Downs, to take the setup role under Daniel Bard.

EdinsonPickle
4 years 11 months ago

I don’t think they will be trading Ellsbury this offseason. He’s been injured for pretty much the whole season, and they’d have to sell real low if they were to trade him this offseason. Although, I could see them looking at potential deals for Papelbon, but considering his season and salary they may not be able to get a terrific return.

elclashcombo
4 years 11 months ago

Yeah, neither of those players are really top value right now (injury, waning performance). Shame about Ellsbury because I really wanted to see what kind of progression he would have had this summer.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

I don’t want werth at all! Next pat burrel in the A.L. Plus we don’t know if he could hit and he’s in his 30’s. I see alot of risk in werth. Same with beltre. He’s gunna want alot of money and he’s 31. We NEED to sign vmart, soriano, and maybe Fuentes and/or putz. Then sign ortiz to a 1-yr 6-8mm offer.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

If we get soriano/putz/Fuentes trade papelbon+cash to the braves for mike minor or to the cards for rasmus. Or trade elsbury for minor. or elsbury, bowden for James loney. Then we trade for either miggy or wright. What could youkilis bring in? (prospects wise)

cookmeister
4 years 11 months ago

Paplebon + cash for Minor? Even if they pay all of his salary the Braves would do that

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

So ur saying no money and the braves would do that?

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

But why? You trade a valuable closer for an unproven starting pitcher when you already have 5 guys signed to start for next season and 4 for 2012 with Doubront, Kelly, ect. in the minors. No need to get Minor.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

Then I would trade minor for a bat. I would only deal papelbon if we got soriano, Fuentes, or putz or Marshall.

Sleepykarl
4 years 11 months ago

Just like the Braves have no need for Papelbon. Why would they trade a promising mlb ready starter for a closer undergoing strong regression and is set to have a 1/$12mm contract when they already have cheap in house guys (Venters and Kimbrel) who can produce at the same level. At least you didn’t side with the Rasmus argument, that one is even worse.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

Almost no chance Mets would trade Wright, and same with the Tigers and Miguel. And Loney isn’t worth trading for imo. Youk is better and you aren’t going to get a lot for Youk due to age. Non of those trades make sense to me.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

Just thinking here, what If we get loney, then trade loney, Kelly, reddick, bowden, navarro for Miguel cabrera? The tigers would have to be tempted.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

Also for David wright: trade papelbon, elsbury, bowden, navarro, and a ptbnl.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

I just don’t see it cause the Sox would have to give up 2-3 prospects for Loney and then Loney + 2-4 prospects for miguel. So you end up giving up 4-7 prospects (including a top prospect like Kelly probably) for Miguel Cabrera which is probably too much (even if they include Youk. I would love to see Miguel on the Sox but The Sox would have to give up too much just for an upgrade at 1B when there are other needs atm (like 3B, C, a LFer for 2012). Plus you have to factor in Miguels huge contract and the fact the Red Sox have only 40 mil to work with to get to the payroll for this year.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

Look at it this way, if the sox don’t start getting big name players their attendence will drop, they willnt be selling up merchendice. See when u look at other teams they have a standout player(jeter, Crawford, hunter, mauer, hamilton) but see we don’t have that standout guy. We have alot of good players. Remeber when manny ramirez was our big name player. By gettin a wright or cabrera, our attendence will rise through the roof, sales will be up. All the merchendice we sell bc of him, that will pay for his contract.
Now for prospects. I know we like our prospects alot! But they’re just prospects. Arnt we tryin to win NOW? How many people care bout the future? When they buy a ticket they want to see them win, not a whole bunch of prospects like tnights game. Look at the hanley trade. Ya sure we gave up a hell of a player but look at what we go in return, a WORLD SERIES! I would trade our prospects now if it meant we were gettng all star talent in return.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

Yeah but we got Josh Beckett as improvement over a bad starting pitcher and he was the last piece they needed (a legitimate ace), Miguel would be replacing something that is fine for now. And I would say Pedroia and Lester can be described as big name players. Having Miguel would be great (and I admit I would scream like a girl if we got him) but Beltre + Youk is better than Miguel + a B level 3B (seeing as there are no other good alternatives on the FA market this year). And the longterm plan (2013-14) for the Sox imo is an IF of Pedroia, Iglesius, Youk or maybe Rizzo (Lars?), a decent catcher, and a 3B probably from the FA market. An OF of Ells, Kalish, and (hopefully) Crawford. Pitchers, Lester, Buchholz, Kelly, Lackey, Beckett with a bullpen that has Bard as closer. They have accumulated all these prospects over the past few years for a reason and to trade them for one lone guy isn’t in their plan I don’t think.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

I like what ur saying, but do u think the Boston fans will still show up for those games without alot of exciting games? They want to win now. They don’t care what we may have in the future. If I wa theo, and I had the optertunity to trade prospects for a MVP type of guy I would do it. I also think we should not resgn beltre. 1. He’s wanting a ton of money, 2. He’s in his 30’s 3. Notice how the only time he does amazing is in contract years? 4. Funny how he hasn’t had any DL time but last year that’s all he was. Injured. It’s a warning sign.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

I think the Sox will still have enough players for a good team (plus they will hopefully be healthy). And I see the Rays taking a small step back next year. And I’m on the fence with Beltre. On the resign we have the fact this is the first time he has played in a hitters ballpark and though he was hurt last year he is tough as freakin nails. He ruptured his (hold your breath) testicles in 08 (?) and finished the game. Last year he hurt his shoulder but played a while before opting for surgery to clear out bone chips. Other than that his injury list isn’t too long. But it would be bard for him to keep up this batting average next year. And I obviously don’t know the guy but he is just doesn’t seem like the guy to take years off and turn on the switch during contract years. I honestly have no clue, I guess it comes down to how many teams want him.

Joe L
4 years 11 months ago

I can’t believe you’re serious about trading for Wright or Miggy.

chowdah219
4 years 11 months ago

Not true about Beltre..Had his worst year last year in seattle and that was a contract year..Beltre is is incredible shape for 31yr old and plays everyday.. and a 4 year deal, IMHO, would not be risky..hes made to hit in fenway..He’ll give you 25 hr a 280+avg and 80-100 rbi ..people are also forgetting about Ronato(spelling) rhp from LSU we just got..he”ll prob be ready b4 Kelly will…

4 years 11 months ago

The Red Sox have big name players. Pedroia, Youkilis (who is one of the best 1st base men in baseball), Lester, and Beckett (is one when not injured). Not to mention the other players that fans Red Sox fans love to watch like Beltre, Martinez, Bard, and Ellsbury (hopefully Beltre and Martinez will be back in Red Sox uniforms next year.) And attendance is already through the roof, the Red Sox have sold out over 550 consecutive games. Attendance most likely will only drop if the Sox have a terrible year (which didn’t stop the Sox from selling out every game in 2006) or the recession that we are in. And Red Sox fans were given the title of best fans in baseball by Forbes based on ticket sales, attendance, merchandise, etc.

And those prospects will be filling seats in the future if they live up to their potential but the trades you suggest are stupid, giving up like 7 good to top prospects for either Wright or Miggy, I wouldn’t give up that many prospects for any player unless they weren’t my systems top prospects. The Sox can still put together a team that can win it all next year. They may have done it this year if it wasn’t for all the injuries. Oh and Jeter is no longer a standout player, he is just a standout name.

4 years 11 months ago

ONLY 40 million to spend this off season. that is why the MLB needs a salary cap.

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 11 months ago

salary cap sucks, its breeds mediocre teams

baseballdude
4 years 11 months ago

you r only saying that cuz u r a yankees fan and any yankees fan would say no salary cap

moonraker45
4 years 11 months ago

the salary cap is ruining the nhl… blackhawks win the cup and then have to trade 405 core players in order to get under payroll for the next season.. I agree that spending needs to be a bit fairer, but a salary cap in baseball would ruin it

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 11 months ago

no, salary cap is communist and its unethical to tell someone you can spend a x amount, its not right

Sleepykarl
4 years 11 months ago

Years taken for 8 different teams to win;
9 years- MLB and NHL
10 years- NFL
30 years- NBA
Salary Cap totally breeds parity!!!

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 11 months ago

parity sucks, because their are no dynasties, just a huge amount of mediocre teams

4 years 11 months ago

Red Sox fans are still trying to get Miguel Cabrera I see…

MaineSox
4 years 11 months ago

You don’t want him on your team?

4 years 11 months ago

To be honest I don’t care if he was. I’m just telling you you aren’t going to get him.

Edit: A package of Doubront, Tazawa, Reddick, Lars Anderson, Navarro for Cabrera is lopsided. An idiot GM would take that trade. Doubront hasn’t proved much in his major league stint, Tazawa has control issues and has been injured, and I don’t see him being a starter in the future, Josh Reddick, with all due respect, is very overrated, Lars Anderson has lost all trade value with a sub-par Triple-A year, and Yamaico Navarro isn’t anything but a probably career minor leaguer or a much bounced around platoon player. Not a decent prospect. If I were to trade Cabrera I’d go and steal, err, trade for Tampa’s young pitching.

4 years 11 months ago

To be honest, I don’t care. And a package of Reddick, Anderson, Navarro, Tazawa, and Doubront for Cabrera is stupid. Those players have either lost value(Anderson),are overrated(Reddick), have proven nothing in the Majors(Anderson, Reddick, Doubront),have been injured(Tazawa)or are nothing more than career minor leaguers(Navarro). I’d much rather steal, err, tradefor Tampa Bay’s young pitching.

MaineSox
4 years 11 months ago

I didn’t say anything about who the Sox should trade for him, and to be honest I think the idea of the Sox trading for him is very far fetched, my point was don’t act like it’s only Sox fans who want their team to trade for superstars, any fan of any team would love to see their team add a superstar or two.

alphabet_soup5
4 years 11 months ago

The Tigers aren’t trading Miguel Cabrera and I doubt the Mets are trading David Wright.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

U never know, we sure could give the mets a few descent pitchers.

Joe L
4 years 11 months ago

No, fail again.

EDIT: Also I love how you say that they could offer “a few decent pitchers.” I’d just like to thank you for furthering my point.

4 years 11 months ago

Actually he is right. The Red Sox could drastically improve the Mets minor league system especially after those players develop some more over the next 1 or 2 years. I wouldn’t want wright anyways because I honestly don’t think he is as good as many people think.

Joe L
4 years 11 months ago

Actually, he IS wrong and you are also wrong for defending him. I would love to hear why you and Potrzeba believe the Mets would trade the face of their franchise, who is not only affordable, has said he would love to retire a Met, and who is also their best player? You know, trading Jon Lester would improve the Red Sox minor league system as well, maybe the Sox should shop him?

Joe L
4 years 11 months ago

Actually, he IS wrong and you are also wrong for defending him. I would love to hear why you and Potrzeba believe the Mets would trade the face of their franchise, who is not only affordable, has said he would love to retire a Met, and who is also their best player? You know, trading Jon Lester would improve the Red Sox minor league system as well, maybe the Sox should shop him?

Joe L
4 years 11 months ago

Oh boy..I’m hoping this is a joke? First off, paps and his entire salary paid for wouldn’t get you Minor or Rasmus. “Then we trade for either miggy or wright.” Amazing how entitled you feel as though you can trade for any team’s superstar. Please wake up from fantasyland..

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

look at what the twins gave up for capps. if a team wants papelbon bad enough, they will trade to get him.

Joe L
4 years 11 months ago

And yet I would be willing to bet just about anything that if the Sox do in fact trade Paps, they will receive an inferior package compared to what the Nats got for Capps.

chowdah219
4 years 11 months ago

easy bro..every fanbase does this..some just think they can trade for whoever they want like fantasy baseball..I myself dont get mad but quite entertained..some actually do have some good trade ideas…unfortunately most dont…

4 years 11 months ago

Papelbon for Minor? That’s a horrendous deal! I don’t know where that talk started but… Papelbon has no value at this point AND the Braves can’t afford him. Besides Jonny Venters has done a pretty good job, and I’m pretty sure the Braves can find much cheaper, and no offense to Papelbon, but much better options

baseballdude
4 years 11 months ago

MIGGY AINT GOING TO GET TRADDED!! R U CRAZY??

4 years 11 months ago

The Red Sox could get him if they wanted. No one is untouchable, it just takes the right package. I mean if the Red Sox offered Buchholz, Youkilis, Bard, and Lester the Tigers would do it immediately. I know that’s a stupid trade and the Sox would never do it but I just like proving that no one is untouchable. The Sox could even put together a prospect only package that could land Miggy. If the Tigers can get some really good FA’s this off season and put together a tremendous team then they should keep him but if they can’t get really good FA’s or the players they wanted then they should consider it because they won’t compete next year without some other big name players coming in and if they traded Miggy they could have a team with a legit shot to compete in 2 to 3 years.

Joe L
4 years 11 months ago

“but I just like proving that no one is untouchable.” Well sure, if you go by the definition of untouchable as Team X COULD theoretically offer Team Y the necessary package to land said superstar, but the reason that player is untouchable is because Team X would never offer such a package. So technically you proved your own point untrue because you yourself said that the Sox would never do that. I would also predict that the Sox would never offer the Tigers the necessary prospect package in order to land Miggy, so again, he is untouchable because it would have to be such a lopsided trade that the Sox would not do.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

I agree on Werth. But I doubt they will go after Soriano and shouldn’t. No use paying closers money for 2 bullpen guys (Papelbon). And Soriano is a bust candidate to me. He has been lucky this year on balls in play, his K/9 is down, and he is an extreme flyball pitcher which isn’t too good for Fenway. Plus he is also 31

malcolmec
4 years 11 months ago

Werth is much more athletic than Burrell, won’t have to adjust to being a DH, and should benefit from batting right handed in Fenway Park. Just don’t count on him to carry your offense: the guy’s a walking strikeout with men on base.

4 years 11 months ago

The problem is, Papelbon and Ellsbury won’t get them a premium position talent player you are looking for.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

Sox need some changes. I see beltre leaving. But who could we play at third?

5_tool_MiLB_fool
4 years 11 months ago

can someone tell me what exactly the “premium positions” are in baseball? all positions on the diamond are very important and if you have a guy playing above average offense/defense at it then why does it matter?

4 years 11 months ago

Premium positions are up the middle. C, 2B/SS, CF. They’re the most important defensively and to have someone with strong offensive skills while still able to handle the defensive responsibilities is difficult.

moonraker45
4 years 11 months ago

because a guy who hits 18 hr’s and bats .250 is good when they are a good defensive catcher.. if you get that out of your 1b then you have a problem.

Encarnacion's Parrot
4 years 11 months ago

$20-million a year? Only if the Yankees are in on it. He’s a damn good player, but you generally stretch out the term to make the yearly salary drop. $16-million/7-years seems more likely to me.

elclashcombo
4 years 11 months ago

I balked at that figure too. Carl Crawford at $20M/yr is not a $20M a year player.

moonraker45
4 years 11 months ago

He might be now.. but so much of his game is his legs, which are bound to start to slow down with age.. That being said, i really don’t think he gets more then 15 mil a year for 5 years. .The yanks will pursue him, but realistically they won’t go overboard they don’t need him desperately. With out the yanks driving up the price, other teams will stay in check as well.

My guess is a 75 mil/ 5 year deal with the angels

Sleepykarl
4 years 11 months ago

Not saying Crawford is worth it, but isn’t that kind of like the pot calling the kettle black? When baseball only has two teams exceed the luxury tax, is it odd to criticize the spending of the other (keeping in mind the 28 other teams)? Even in most articles these days from cities outside of Boston group the two when talking about high salaries. (For example, Oakland complains they can’t compete with the payrolls of the Yanks and Sox, no longer just the Yanks.)

Encarnacion's Parrot
4 years 11 months ago

I do not have a problem with any of the 28 other teams making a lucrative deal. It’s just with the Sox and Yanks, it’s become predictable to hear their names in FA talk. All I was saying is Crawford is not worth $20-mill a year, which you agree with, and was using up the overworn pun with the Yanks. With the emergence of Gardner, the Yanks don’t have to go out and sign him – they don’t need Cliff Lee either with some of the young pitching they have coming up.

If the Yankees let most of their pending free agents go and fill those spots with internal options, I will gain a tonne of respect for them. The Red Sox have shown themselves that they don’t need to sign all the big name free agents with most of their starting 9 hurt at one point and still winning games.

Sleepykarl
4 years 11 months ago

Before you complain about caps, go look at the leaked records and maybe start with a salary floor. A premium FA won’t go to other teams because they won’t pay him (by other teams I mean Oak/Flor and so one). What the Red Sox do is no different than the Yankees in general, just a different route. The Sox bully the draft, use those pieces to trade for guys that the team can not afford after the year, and then sign them to a big extension. Still money whipping teams. Also, the Yankees actually do produce pretty solid guys internally (Gardner and Cano stand out as 5 WAR guys). Everyone talks about Boston doing it internally and NY just by FA, but if you look at the WS clinching games of ’04 and ’07, Boston played a combined total of 7 guys they drafted (1 and 6 respectively), while NY played 7 in last year’s game 6.

4 years 11 months ago

“The Sox bully the draft, use those pieces to trade for guys that the team can not afford after the year, and then sign them to a big extension.”

False. Name one example please.

Also, I agree the Yankees have produced some solid talent, but the Red Sox have produced more, this isn’t even up for arguing. It isn’t about how many guys you produce, its about the impact. In 2007, Pedroia, Lester, Ellsbury, Youk, Papelbon, etc. were the core of the team. The Yankees have built through free agency, if you take away their free agent signings (Sabathia, Burnett, Teixeria) they aren’t a playoff team. If you take away the Red Sox big signings (Drew, Matsuzaka, Lackey) they would thank you. Anyways, I have no problem with what the Yankees and Red Sox do, but you are obviously a Yankee fan and your bias is embarrassing…you don’t have to apologize for your teams spending by trying to crap on everything the Red Sox do. Saying they bully the draft is laughable.

Encarnacion's Parrot
4 years 11 months ago

I’m content with no salary cap or floor right now and wish not to get sucked into that debate as mine nor your opinions matter.

johnsilver
4 years 11 months ago

So Boston regularly spends 10M on the Rule 4 draft and that is bad, just so they can avoid giving out 3/40M contracts to people like Ollie Perez, or horrid contracts to the likes of Gil Meche, Jose Guillen and other mediocre at best talent signed to albatross contracts when that same money could fund 4+ years worth of TOP draft picks?

Why not invest in a GOOD scouting department, ran with knowledgeable people who know what they are doing when 25 other teams refuse to do it and grab the cream of the draft, let them sign these middle aged and useless FA’s to fill holes.

Get so tired of people here whining over the fewer than half dozen teams smart enough to exploit the draft and avoid these same players their own team’s fan base loathes that get signed year after year. Don’t like it? Stop signing the same bums and hire a decent scouting department and staff, it is far cheaper/efficient in the long run.

4 years 11 months ago

So are you saying when the Yanks fill they’re positions instead of free agents with home grown talent you will gain a ton of respect for them? Let’s see… Besides the Yanks signing Tex, CC, and A.J. for 2009… The Core Four were all drafted by the Yanks, and are all home grown. Robinson Cano and Brett Gardner are very proud home-grown players. Phil Hughes is home-grown. So of they’re starters right now… 4 of the 9 starters not including the pitcher are home grown. The Yanks rotation, believe it or not, will be mostly home grown. Not counting CC or A.J., Phil Hughes will be there, and the Yanks have Dellin Betances, Manny Banuelos, Andrew Brackman, and Jeremy Bleich(though injured)coming up. They also have solid pieces in Triple-A in Ivan Nova, Hector Noesi, and David Phelps. The Yanks also have a surplus of catching(that has to be one of the best catching departments in the minors). It’s other positions that they lack including the OF, and some of the infield is why they are ranked low. I would say that the scouting and development department would turn they’re attention to SS, 3B, and the OF, since they are set on C, even if Montero doesent catch Btw here’s a thought, wouldn’t you like to see Eduardo Nuñez become a starter? I love to watch that kid play, hits well, plays great defense, and runs well.

4 years 11 months ago

This is the first year in a while that the Red Sox are #2 in payroll so…

Sleepykarl
4 years 11 months ago

What’s awhile? One or two years? I’m not saying the Red Sox are just as guilty as the Yankees, but they are still very guilty. It’s like if one guy murdered a person and another murdered two people, one is worse than the other but they are both guilty of the same thing.

4 years 11 months ago

The Red Sox are no more guilty than the LA teams, Chicago teams, the Mets, and the other big market teams. The Mets spent over 20 million more than them last season. The Red Sox are just like every other big market team when it comes to resources, and have a leg up on every mid/small market team. But they don’t have an advantage on every other big market team too. The Mets can spend just as much, the Angels, Dodgers (before the divorce fiasco lol), Cubs, White Sox, Phillies…all these teams are in the same league. The Yankees are in a different league from everyone. I’m actually ok with that too, the only problem I have is with the small market teams turning a huge profit and never raising the payroll (yeah I see you Marlins & Pirates).

Encarnacion's Parrot
4 years 11 months ago

The Sox were second in 2008, but were $60-million behind.

Yankees: $218.3-million
Red Sox: $155.4-million

4 years 11 months ago

The link I have says they were fourth…maybe they added payroll and finished second? Either way, they are spending around the same as every other big market team…Tigers, Mets, Angels, Dodgers, White Sox, Phils, etc. To suggest its the Red Sox, Yankees and 28 other teams isn’t accurate. Its the Yankees, a group of 6-8 other teams, and then the 20+ teams. To be clear I’m a Sox fan and fully acknowledge their financial muscle helps them, but it’s not like they are going out there and consistently winning bidding wars. If the Dodgers wanted JD they could’ve, if the Angels wanted Lackey they could’ve…just like if the Red Sox wanted Pedro or Bay they could’ve, but another team overpaid. IDK, I think the biggest problem with Theo is his free agent signings, and his ability to consistenly develop talent is what has kept this team in contention since they won in 04.

EvilEmpireMember
4 years 11 months ago

Gammons doesn’t believe the Red Sox can afford to sign Carl Crawford, who he thinks will get seven years and $140MM.

Crawford will not be getting a 7/140 million dollar contract from the Yankees, Cliff Lee on the other hand……..

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

Lee will probably get 5/100 I think. 7 years is way too long for a 31 yr old.

The_Silver_Stacker
4 years 11 months ago

that is a gm’s death wish

johnsilver
4 years 11 months ago

I would compare him to a 2003-4 Johnny Damon with more speed.. He is really a tremendous athlete and all around player, but his legs are what makes him and when they go, he goes with them. 20M a year? 3 years at that figure maybe, but no chance even from the Yanks for 7. 5@16-17per is best can see, only then if Anaheim gets really involved.

Notin J. Notin
4 years 11 months ago

I would not be surprised at all if Crawford gets $20mill per year, and that doe not limit him to the Yankees.

There have been 22 $100mill contracts in MLB history. The Yankees have given out 5. Three teams gave out 2 (Mets, Cardinals, Rockies). And 11 other teams all have signed a player toa deal of $100mill or more, including the Twins, Blue Jays, Reds, and Astros.

And these totals don’t include Daisuke, who could be viewed as a $100mill contract, but really wasn’t one. Arguments on both sides are accepted. Becasue it doen’t change my point that lots of teams can and do give out ridiculous contracts, not just the Yankees.

They do give out more of them than anyone else, however.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

If they are too lefty heavy at the top of their lineup they could move Scutaro up to leadoff (who is fine), Crawford 2, /maybe/ Pedroia 3rd (not a fit really but who knows), Youk 4, ect with Ellsbury in the 9 spot where he has the best chance of being on base for Scutaro and Crawford. But I see a problem with Pedroia and Crawford. Crawford does not want to lead off and Pedroia isn’t really a top of the order guy (he is more valuable at 2) so I don’t know how this lineup would piece together with Crawford. I mean I don’t like having to move either of those 2 to the bottom 4 in the order.

dc21892
4 years 11 months ago

I usually agree with Gammons, but this time I can’t. The Red Sox have plenty of money coming off the books and would deffinately be able to afford Crawford. One of the few teams who could actually give him his big contract and go out and get more pieces around him. I believe if we miss out on Crawford, Werth will be a nice second option to look at. He would be a nice left fielder. A nice free agent market out there this year, let’s not get outbid.

4 years 11 months ago

Why does BOS need Crawford? Last I checked they needed a power bat.

JWRedsox: You wouldn’t get a lot for Youk? You’re crazy. Teams would be all over a GG caliber, 3b/1b, 300ba, cheap, player like him! 31 or not, Youk is in a high level echelon in MLB. You’re name is questionable with a comment like that.

BOS needs a guy like Werth. Signed like a Bay type contract, 4/66, he would kill Fenway, plus speed, and defense. BOS will resign Beltre. Ells will be back. Paps will be back also.

MaineSox
4 years 11 months ago

What team doesn’t “need” Crawford? Last I checked the Sox were 2nd in Hr’s, or have they dropped to 3rd now?

As far as Werth is concerned I really hope Theo doesn’t go out and get him this winter. I really don’t understand the fascination with the guy, he had a career year last year and now he is the answer to all of Bostons woes? Before last year the most HRs he had was 24 and the most RBIs was 67, actually before last year his production was strikingly similar to J.D. Drew’s just with a lower average and OPS (career .270/.365/.476 for Werth; .281/.388/.499 for Drew). Don’t get me wrong I’m actually a J.D. fan but no one is going to argue that he could be some big hitter and change the whole offense for some team and if you took away his high OPS and dropped his average he would quickly lose the few fans he does have in Boston.

Crawford on the other hand, while he may not be a power hitter, he really can change the look of any offense, and is a premium defender as well.

There are plenty of options out there for them to add power to their offense I just don’t think Werth is the option they should go after.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

I agree totally with u on the werth subject. hes in his 30’s and may be the next pat burrel in boston. umm what other power options are avalible? i would like to see whos out there. Thanks

MaineSox
4 years 11 months ago

I guess I should have been a little more specific, I was thinking mostly of people available through trade. They are sure to try again to trade for Adrian Gonzalez (although I read today that the pads owner said he wouldn’t be traded in the offseason) they could be in on Fielder (hopefully only with the idea of extending him and moving him to DH in a couple years) Dunn may not sign an extension with Washington and could be available, Pena will be a free agent (please no Theo), Jose Bautista could become available again, Paul Konerko (I believe) will be a free agent, and I’m sure there are other guys no one has thought of that they could attempt to trade for.

Notin J. Notin
4 years 11 months ago

Have to agree on Youkilis. The man is so underrated it is ridiculous.

How many people realzie that since the start of 2008, Kevin Youkilis has the highest OPS in the AL at .964. That is higher than Miguel Cabrera, Joe Mauer, Mark Teixeira, Josh Hamilton, Justin Morneau, and well, the rest ofthe AL. In fact, during that stretch only Albert Pujols and Manny Ramirez have a higher OPS than Youkilis.

So among players NOT suspended 50 games for testing positive for masking agents, Youkilis has the second best OPS in the majors over the last 3 years…

dc21892
4 years 11 months ago

Yup. Since he came up he has been. I’ll agree, when he first came up I wasn’t pleased with the time he was getting because I felt they could have been using someone else. The more you watched him play though, the more he started to come into his own. He has worked so hard to get where he’s at and he has turned into a great player.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

Yeah that was my mistake. Not thinking right really. But Youk will be 32 before next season and has never played over 147 games in a season because he has a tendency to get nagging injuries in the 2nd half. Idk I’ve never really looked at his trade value because I don’t expect him to be traded.

4 years 11 months ago

1. Drop it Red Sox will never get Cabrera or Wright. No you don’t never know. Don’t you think the reason the Tigers and Mets signed their players Miggy and David was to build around them? Much more attract fans?2. Papelbon at this point isn’t worth a middle reliever. My words maybe controversial to some but, he has done a horrible job closing this year, and is prone to give up Homeruns. 3. Doubt the Sox would get CC. The Angels, A’s, and maybe the Yankees will push harder. And Theo has been known to lowball so many free agents it’s not even funny. It’s a possibility though.4. Youk is very underrated. People don’t give him alot of credit for anything. But he is the heart and soul of the Sox, and the Red Sox will not trade him.5. I thought Peter Gammons was a Red Sox expert. The sox could afford to get Crawford and Werth for 3-5 year deals with each making 15-18MM each year. They already have overrated John Lackey wth his albatross contract.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

What FAs (with actually value) has Theo lowballed? The aging Jason Bay? V-mart with a 2 year deal though we don’t actually know the real offer? He outbid everyone on Teixeira until the Yankees came in at the last second so if Theo really wants him he won’t lowball. And I disagree on Papelbon. I could see teams wanting him, I mean, look at the Capps trade, the Nationals got value for a guy who may be having a good year but is volatile (look a 2009 year). And while Pap has declined he hasn’t had a year where he wouldn’t be valuable to a team. If the Sox find a team that needs a closer and has money (Angels for example) they would get value for him.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

I agree totally. if their is a team wanting papelbon bad enough, they will give up the propsects. which teams wiould want papelbon? i thought the braves, cardinals, maybe the phillies.

4 years 11 months ago

Ryan Franklin, though aging, is a solid closer for the Cards. The Braves have Venters who has done a good job actually. People are saying Mike Minor for Pap but that would never happen. The Phils might though. They just need that one closer to finally deplete their already depleted farm system and then sign him to a 3 year deal and 2 years from now being the team with the oldest players averaging them over 30 years. Their core, Utley, Howard, and Rollins are already in their early 30s. The Phils chose a bad time to extend Howard.

4 years 11 months ago

Jason Bay is a pretty good example of a low-ball, actually. The “aging” Jason Bay just happened to carry your team to the playoffs. Without him, you guys would have had a bad first half.

MaineSox
4 years 11 months ago

Why does what he did last year matter at all? Do you think he would have carried the Sox to the playoffs this year? Darnell McDonald has better numbers than him this year.

4 years 11 months ago

Hitting in a very hitter friendly park as opposed to city field yes

MaineSox
4 years 11 months ago

You think batting in Fenway for 81 games would have added 30 home runs and 80+ RBIs to his total? The guy is a flop this year, and the Sox either some how saw it coming or (most likely) got lucky, either way he isn’t worth his contract. He made a huge payday off of a career year, and good for him, I’m just glad it wasn’t from the Sox.

4 years 11 months ago

Uh, see you’re not making sense. Jason Bay is playing(well not really, currently injured)81 games at Citi Field, as opposed to 81 games at Fenway. Citi Field takes a real power hitter to hit in that park. Fenway, anyone can hit there. It would add to his stats because first, he’s not being protected in that Mets lineup, and Second that park is a hitter’s nightmare. In Boston he would be thiving killing the Green Monster, and is also being protected by Papi, Beltre, Victor, and Youk earlier in the season.

MaineSox
4 years 11 months ago

No, sorry, you aren’t making sense and are likely making assumptions. Have you looked at his numbers for this year? He’s actually hitting BETTER at Citi Field than on the road, .277 average at home .243 away, .830 OPS home .680 away, .182 ISO home .111 away. He also isn’t pulling the ball like he used to, 3 of his 6 home runs are to right field one to center and two to left center. And when he does manage to pull the ball he hits it on the ground, 58.8% of his hits to left have been on the ground, and his ISO to left is only .079! If you overlay his 2009 Home runs over Citi Field’s dimension (there’s a chart at mccoveychronicles.com), and assuming he would have hit 100% of his home runs at Citi, he would have lost at most 10 and only 5 of those were pulled toward the green monster, so the green monster only “gave” him 5 Home runs last year, and looking at his hitting chart at mets.com only about 5 of his fly outs at home this year could have turned into home runs in Fenway, assuming they were hit high enough to clear the monster.

Potrzeba
4 years 11 months ago

I belive in order to compete with the yankees, WE HAVE TO SPEND MONEY AND SPEND PROSPECTS. I HATE seeing the yankees wining this year and watching Boston do nothing to compete. sure the injuries raped us, but i couldn’t belive when the trade deadline passed, and the red sox did nothing. If we dont get some mvp type of players, fans will just stop paying high ticket prices. I hate seeing our lineup and its basically a spring training game. (although i like seeing kalish, reddick, anderson playing).

chowdah219
4 years 11 months ago

All the sox need to do is find a rh bat fix the catcher situation,which is either Vmart or a salty/tek combo and the pen..No need for a major overhaul…

4 years 11 months ago

“If we dont get some mvp type of players, fans will just stop paying high ticket prices.”

MVP players like, I dunno, Dustin Pedroia? MVP caliber players like Youk? Cy Young caliber pitchers like Lester or Buchholz? The Red Sox do have these type of players, they’ve just been hurt. The Red Sox don’t need any one player to sell tickets…they need a contending team. By turning on the caps lock and saying the sox need to spend money and prospects, it makes you look ignorant. First of all, the Red Sox spent more money this year than any year in their history by far, and look how it turned out. How’s John Lackey doing right now? Spending big doesn’t guarantee anything. Also, the Red Sox were wise to not do anything at the deadline, this team wasn’t going anywhere. You are flat out wrong saying the Red Sox need to spend prospects to win. The only way they compete with the Yankees is to develop superior talent. They won in 07 because they developed prospects. 2004 was won through free agency, but then they couldn’t re-sign everyone, got old, and had to retool. You can’t sustain winning through free agency unless you are the Yankees, its that simple.

4 years 11 months ago

The Red Sox would be in contention without injuries…does anyone disagree with this? Don’t let this year fool you, this team is still built for success over the next few years. They finished in third place in 2006 with far less injuries, and followed that up with a dominant 2007, in which they were the best team in the MLB from start to finish. I’m not saying they will win it all next year, but they will certainly be in contention.

4 years 11 months ago

Who the hell is going to give Crawford that kind of money, he’s berely worth half that

Notin J. Notin
4 years 11 months ago

Tony Reagins.

Doubt me? Ask Gary Matthews, Torii Hunter, or Juan Rivera…

angelsfan67
4 years 11 months ago

Hunter was overpaid by about 15M, Rivera was a bargain last year at 3.25m, not so much this year at 4.25m. We have to wait and see about next year, but will most likely be overpaid, but Matthews goes on Stoneman, not Reagins.

Guest
4 years 11 months ago

Wait, what? $140mm over 7 years for Crawford?

I was thinking something more in line with $56mm over 4 years.

4 years 11 months ago

Salary cap huh… is that really gonna stop other teams from being financially challenged in a reccession no so I don’t think so