Buster Posey, Neftali Feliz Win ROY Honors

Giants catcher Buster Posey took home the National League Rookie of the Year award today, while Rangers closer Neftali Feliz won it in the AL.

After Posey, Jason Heyward, Jaime Garcia, Gaby Sanchez, Neil Walker, Starlin Castro, Ike Davis, Jose Tabata, and Jonny Venters received votes in the NL.  After Feliz it was Austin Jackson, Danny Valencia, Wade Davis, John Jaso, Brennan Boesch, and Brian Matusz in the AL.  Click here to see the full voting results.


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264 Comments on "Buster Posey, Neftali Feliz Win ROY Honors"


gigantes2425
4 years 9 months ago

well deserved for both guys. and way to top of the season for posey.

rbeezy
4 years 9 months ago

Jackson was robbed, I don’t care what anyone says.

JaySchu
4 years 9 months ago

69.1 innings. He’s a damn relief pitcher. I don’t get it. Why do people place so much value on saves? If he was a middle reliever with 69.1 innings no one would even know his name.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

Well, two things:
There’s a reason he’s not a middle reliever… because he’s awesome.
And yes, they still would know his name because he was one of the biggest prospects in the league…

JaySchu
4 years 9 months ago

He was a prospect as a starting pitcher. As a reliever? Meh. Too much emphasis is placed on the role of closer. Toss any solid middle reliever into the role and they should do the job passably well. Relievers are just too fungible to be of any real worth.

sojuboi
4 years 9 months ago

Closers deserve all that attention. If you haven’t seen, Lincecum and Oswalt both struggled in 9th inning situations. Closers get that title because they are able to withstand the last inning pressure situations and work through it. A lot of other relievers would just fall apart in those situations. Hence, they get paid so much… Rivera, Papelbon, KRod… you get the point? For Feliz to come in as a rookie and be able to withstand all the pressure of the 9th, and be one of the most dominant at it, that’s pretty damn impressive. As a Giants fan, I’m glad Ron Washington didn’t trust Feliz in the World Series. Some of the games could have turned out differently…

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

How? Closers are just used to maintain the lead, unlike a starter or everyday player. I’d take an everyday player like Jackson any day over a reliever. Feliz shouldn’t even be in the bullpen, he’s got ace potential. Maybe if Feliz started game 4 instead of Tommy Hunter, things could have turned out differently.

sojuboi
4 years 9 months ago

Feliz to start a game in the World Series after no starting experience over the season is just absurd. If I can recall correctly, it was game 2 when the Giants had a 7 run 8th inning, killing the chances of any sort of comeback for the Rangers. Maybe if Ron Washington had used him in the beginning of the 8th or at least before all those runs scored, the Ranger’s might have tried a little harder in the 9th inning to make a comeback. But down 0-9, I think they just wanted to go home and sleep it off.

sojuboi
4 years 9 months ago

And that my friend… gave the Giants a 2-0 lead in the WS. Momentum? Giants. Winner? Giants.

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

Obviously, I meant to begin the season in the rotation.

malcolmec
4 years 9 months ago

Lincecum and Oswalt struggled because they’re starting pitchers who were thrust into relief roles. Whenever either of them are on on a given night, they would not struggle going back out to the mound to finish up a CG.

sojuboi
4 years 9 months ago

Exactly. I’m pointing out that not everyone can be just thown into the closer’s role. Teams pay millions to closers. It’s not an easy job.

malcolmec
4 years 9 months ago

And I’m arguing that Lincecum and Oswalt aren’t good examples because they’re not relief pitchers so no manager under normal circumstances would consider using them to close out a game anyway.

malcolmec
4 years 9 months ago

And I’m arguing that Lincecum and Oswalt aren’t good examples because they’re not relief pitchers so no manager under normal circumstances would consider using them to close out a game anyway.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

– an average offensive player with plus fielding
– a closer who got a rookie record 40 saves and had a 0.88 WHIP

Out of the Centerfielders with enough plate appearances (27 of them) Jackson Ranked:
20th in OPS
13th in Stolen Bases
23rd in Strikeout Rates (#1 being the best/lowest, #27, being the worst/highest)
19th in Walk Rates (#1 being best/highest, #27 being worst/lowest)

I’ll admit that he is easily an above average fielder, and that K-Rates aren’t overly important, especially when looking at just how much he helped the team (as opposed to offensive immaturity, or in some cases bad things to come) and also that Walk Rates already factor into OPS, so that was somewhat repetitive…

TwinsVet
4 years 9 months ago

His UZR was only 5.4. He was a good fielder, but don’t let the Jackson crowd fool you into thinking he was dominant.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

I agree, I’m just trying to argue the otherside as well before they jump down my throat.

E.Arturian
4 years 9 months ago

UZR isn’t at all conclusive. It is a flawed stat in a realm where not many exist. Jackson was/is a spectacular fielder. Also, Posey caught only 75 games. Heyward had 114 more at bats with equivalent slash lines. Therefore he was easily more valuable.

This really wasn’t that close. BBWAA was wrong.

TwinsVet
4 years 9 months ago

UZR isn’t perfect, but it’s the best fielding metric we have. And it says Jackson isn’t spectacular. Forgive me if I’m inclined to believe he’s probably, as the metric indicates, good but not stellar in the field.

And this isn’t Rookie MVP. This is “given to the top rookie in baseball”. Writer’s are free to interpret that however they want. I can imagine some pick the guy who was the most dazzling, some the guy who was the most fun to watch, some the guy who made the biggest difference to his team, and some the guy who has the most promise going forward – or better yet, a combination of all those factors.

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

You should start using it right then. It takes a few years to get a good picture of what kind a fielder a player is.

N1120A
4 years 9 months ago

UZR is not the best metric. It is highly unreliable in anything less than a 3 year sample size and even then is probably not as good as PM, which had Jackson at 21 DRS, which is spectacular. Also, RZR had him at .929 (2nd) and 109 OOZ plays (first by 10). The fact that UZR had Julio Bourbon so high, while the others had him as merely above average says a ton. Jackson is a spectacular fielder.

4 years 9 months ago

Posey is a catcher.

Heyward is a corner outfielder.

Posey wins.

N1120A
4 years 9 months ago

I liked this, but Heyward did play a full season, while Posey did not (not Posey’s fault by any means). He also put up a Pujos-esque OBP in his first year in the majors, which is ridiculous. I would still give it to Posey, but not by much.

Jason_F
4 years 9 months ago

So, since they had roughly equivalent offensive numbers, the fact that Posey spent about half a season behind the plate at a premium defensive position doesn’t give him a significant advantage? Not to mention he caught the best pitching staff in the majors and they pitched better to him than they had pitched before he became the full time catcher.

The real issue here is the japanese writer leaving Posey off the ballot completely and Kovacevic doing the same with Heyward. Indefensible…

rbeezy
4 years 9 months ago

Average rookie season now?

181 Hits
34 Doubles
10 Triples

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

Why do I care how many doubles or triples he had? Total Bases, Slugging, Isolated Power, OPS, or even better, wOBA, take those things into account, and all say the same thing: not that great.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

The arguement isn’t Austin Jackson for MVP. It’s Austin Jackson for “Rookie of the Year” that means that you compare what he did vs what OTHER AL ROOKIES DID. When you do that then AJ is easily a top candidate for the award. Now wheter or not he wins is a matter of what you value more, a closer or other candidates. But frame the question properly.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

I’m just trying to establish that he is only a slightly above average player, while Feliz is clearly an above average player.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t have a problem w/ your conclusion that Feliz deserved the ROY over AJ. I have a problem w/ you evaluating AJ as a “slightly above average player” vs comparing AJ to the rest of the ROY candidates. Too often we seem to vote for the rookie who had the most minor lge “prestige” or the most mlb promise rather than simply who performed better in their rookie year.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

I am comparing Jackson to other players.
I am comparing Feliz to the other players.

therefore, If there was a list of the best players in order, Feliz would be higher. That’s why I think he deserves Rookie of the Year.
Whether I’m saying he’s a better player or a better rookie, either way I’m saying he’s better.

N1120A
4 years 9 months ago

Um, you are wrong. Given that both PM and RZR have Jackson as basically a 2 win defender, I will take that over UZR’s half win, especially with a single year sample. That means Jackson was worth nearly 5.5 wins. Feliz was a 1.7 win player at a less important position.

Jackson deserved the ROTY more than Feliz and is clearly a far better player than you make him out to be.

Guest
4 years 9 months ago

The players voted Jackson as ROY. He was robbed.

4 years 9 months ago

I disagree. Julio Borbon of the Texas Rangers lost his rookie status with 28 too many at bats in 09. Had he not had those 28 at bats, and been afforded 180 more at bats this year, he could have put up similar numbers to Jackson. Aside from this hypothetical, Neftali Feliz not only did his job, but did it well. Were any of Jackson’s stats a rookie record? Well, he was 15 shy of tying the rookie record for strike outs.

Bottom line is that Feliz deserved this more than Jackson.

N1120A
4 years 9 months ago

1) No, Feliz didn’t come close to what Jackson did as far as value to his team. I value a closer more than most SABR types, but call a spade a spade. Jackson was a premium CFer this year.

2) Bourbon? Really? He is a solid defender, albeit with a weak arm, but his bat was absolutely horrible.

timmytwoshoezzz
4 years 9 months ago

For once, the most deserving players won. Congrats to both men.

Vivid_Reality
4 years 9 months ago

I didnt expect Starlin Castro to win but only 3 third place votes feels like a snub.

BlueCatuli
4 years 9 months ago

His glove snubbed him. I expect his defense to improve. He has above average range, he just need to learn not to rush. He is too quick for his own good sometimes.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

“Oh but I thought it was all about a SS range”?

-DJ

NYBravosFan10
4 years 9 months ago

i pretty much want to break something right now. Congrats to Jonny V though on getting votes, I figured he had fallen off of the table. Oh well, Freddie Freeman and Craig Kimbrel can do it for the Braves next year!!!

bleedDODGERblue
4 years 9 months ago

I was watching sportscenter when this was announced and they didnt even say Neftali Feliz’s name, apparently he’s just “the texas ranger’s closer”

roberty
4 years 9 months ago

And Neftali Feliz is such a cool name too!

myname_989
4 years 9 months ago

The writers got this right. Congrats to both guys.

NYBravosFan10
4 years 9 months ago

Ok, the BBWAA are a bunch of idiots!!! Posey may have had the better year but he didnt deserve ELEVEN MORE VOTES than Heyward and AJax should have been closer as well.

Slopeboy
4 years 9 months ago

Get a grip. Obviously you’re a homer. Posey as a rookie took over for an established vet like Molina and retained the respect and confidence of a winnng pitching staff at mid season. Not to dump on Heyward, but his impact is not even close.
Jackson had a great year, but aside from individual stats, he made no real impact for the Tigers as a team.

hartvig
4 years 9 months ago

This is Rookie of the Year, not MVP or Cy Young. Where your team finishes in the standings should have no impact on how the voting went unless you were the one responsible for the improvement. You can maybe make that argument for Posey over Heyward, although both teams made the playoffs & both contributed. Feliz did contribute to Texas winning the division but as a reliever with only 69 innings pitched I think his overall contribution was less than Jackson’s. I do think that if Texas makes a starter out of Feliz he will wind up having a better career than Jackson however.

Slopeboy
4 years 9 months ago

Read what I posted to Cody Abbott

4 years 9 months ago

Posey got almost half of his starts (30/83) this year at 1B. Who’s a homer again?

Slopeboy
4 years 9 months ago

Are you serious? You don’t think that the Giants overall finish had anything to do with Buster Posey’s play? Whether as a catcher or at 1B? Did you watch any Giants games during the regular season or only look at numbers? Heyward had a great year and the Braves would not have had as good a record without him, but the Giants don’t make the playoffs, let alone win the WS without Posey. And yes, the writers take that into account.
As for Feliz, he was the final chip in the Texas pitching staff, their bullpen has been simply atrocious forever, look at their history and you’ll see that he saved games throughout the year that Texas used to blow continuously in past years.

BTW I’m a Yankees fan and have no problem giving credit where it’s due.

4 years 9 months ago

I’m just pointing out how “he came in and immediately gained the respect of a pitching staff” isn’t as salient a point as some would like to make it out to be, because he didn’t. He came up and played 1B and then took over after the old guy got traded.Although I disagree with the notion that the ROY award should be treated as an MVP for rookies. But if you wanted to, then you could look at their WARs and see that Heyward is at a 5.0 and Posey is at 3.9. The Giants don’t get to the playoffs without Posey, but the Braves would have been eevn farther removed from the playoffs without Heyward, so I don’t see how that should make any difference in this particular case anyway.

sojuboi
4 years 9 months ago

Posey was a catcher in the minors and the only reason he played first was not because Molina was there but also to preserve Posey’s legs. Rookies tend to tire out faster than players who’ve been around for a few years (look at heyward). The Giants used Posey well.

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

Posey missed 2 months and only had 1.1 wins less? That sounds very good.

adamdm07
4 years 9 months ago

Just so you know, Playoffs have nobearing on votes. They are turned in before the Playoffs start. It was based strictly on the Season, unfortunatley Heyward was there from day one and got ripped off by Posey who was called up later, Better Athlete=JHEY!

Slopeboy
4 years 9 months ago

I know that, as I noted on my post to Cody Abbott. You have to give credit where it’s due. Posey took over a MLB postion that’s much more complicated and difficult a position in mid-stream without a hitch. You can’t really compare a catcher’s duties and responsibilites with an outfielder. What they do doesn’t always show up in numbers and that’s what the BBWAA took into consideration when they voted him over everyone else. The fact that he was called up in mid season shouldn’t detract from what he did on the field.

YourBase
4 years 9 months ago

I love the Giants but I would have been fine with either guy winning. They’re both great players. Besides, if Posey had played the whole year, they probably would have had even closer seasons.

Brandon Woodworth
4 years 9 months ago

God damn it. Heyward deserved the award. I’m surprised Posey didnt take the Silver Slugger from McCann too. Don’t get me wrong, I’m from the same city as Buster and I watched him and Heyward duke it out in the state playoffs in 05, but the guy who has 40% more at bats and battled injuries still gets it for me.

TwinsVet
4 years 9 months ago

That 40% more AB’s cuts both ways. If Posey hadn’t been deprived Super-Two by Sabian, he’d have 30 HR and 100+ RBI. Then Heyward wouldn’t have even pulled 5 1st place votes.

Brandon Woodworth
4 years 9 months ago

Put Heyward in the cleanup spot like they did Posey and tell me he couldn’t do the same. Heyward was shoved into the 2 hole because of his OBP, and Bobby Cox ruined him swinging for the fences by making him take every pitch he saw so he could be on base. Even then, he didn’t let him steal. He had 11 SB, he’s easily a 20 SB guy.

TwinsVet
4 years 9 months ago

There’s alot of “if’s” that we can debate all afternoon – I’d prefer not to. I’ll just say that most baseball analysts judge pitchers/catchers/everyone else by different standards. A catcher isn’t supposed to have stats similar to a right fielder – and if he does, he’s incredibly valuable.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

Well said. To put it in further perspective..

Catchers who hit 18 hrs and had an OBP above .350- McCann, Martinez, Posada and Posey.

RF who hit 18 hrs and had an OBP above .350-Abreu, Bruce, Swisher, Rasmus, Either, Cruz, Werth, Heyward, Hamilton, Bautista.

Posey’s position is a lot more difficult to find that kind of offense and then when you value the defensive responsibilities for a C vs a RF then the weight of his value is even higher.

N1120A
4 years 9 months ago

Well, you leave out that Heyward had an OBP of .393, which is elite as opposed to above average and was tops in the NL among RFers and second in all of baseball (behind Choo).

csg
4 years 9 months ago

not true. Bobby even went to the media saying that Heyward was way too patient at the plate. They wanted Heyward to be more aggressive

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

The ROY award isn’t based on future potential it’s based on how they did this year.

MetsEventually
4 years 9 months ago

Clearly, he didn’t. If the Braves made it to the WS though, it would have been the other way around.

4 years 9 months ago

Votes were taken before the playoffs began.

Brandon Woodworth
4 years 9 months ago

The votes are in before the post season even begins. then again, the Giants impressive finish does push Posey more into the spotlight.

mscali650
4 years 9 months ago

Brandon ROY is not award for what a player does in STATE PLAYOFFs in 05′ Com’on man! To catch for that staff and make it look easy, along with the offensive numbers he put up this these he deserves the award.

Brandon Woodworth
4 years 9 months ago

Please insert face into palm.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

Posey vs Heyward

AB- 406 vs 520
Bat Avg- .300 vs .277
OBP – .357 vs .393
HR- 18 vs 18
HR:AB- 1:23 vs 1:29
OPS+ – 129 vs 131

Factor in that Posey did as a C and w/ fewer mlb AB and he deserved the award over Heyward. Doesn’t mean he will be the better PLAYER long term but definetly had the better first year.

alxn
4 years 9 months ago

WAR factors all that in and Heyward was worth over a win more than Posey. He did not “definetly” have a better year.

MB923
4 years 9 months ago

Heyward played 142 games and a 5.0 WAR, which is 1 win every 28.4 games

Posey played 108 games and a 3.9 WAR, which is 1 win every 27.6 games

If each played 162 games with their current WAR rate

Heyward- 5.70 WAR
Posey- 5.85 WAR

alxn
4 years 9 months ago

Why should Posey get credit for games he didn’t play? That is just a ridiculous argument. He could have also been terrible in those extra games (much like Heyward during a stretch).

MB923
4 years 9 months ago

Why do you think I put it based on average and not total.What’s next you’re going to tell me, a player who has 200 hits in 600 at bats hit better than a guy with 190 hits in 550 at bats? It’s called a better average. And Posey’s WAR rate was better than Heyward’s.Basically yeah, Heyward played over a month more than Posey. But don’t forget, Mauer missed a month last year and got MVP, and Hamilton missed a month this year and could get MVP. It’s no different than this.

alxn
4 years 9 months ago

You’re arguing a hypothetical. Hamilton missed a month and still produced more value than anyone. Posey missed a month and did not produce more value than Heyward.

MB923
4 years 9 months ago

As I proven, based on the amount that each played, Posey’s value rate is more higher than Heywards.As I said, you’re acting as if the top number is the best number, ex. 20 Homers is better than 19 homers, when you’re completely missing the most important things which is a rate done at.5.0 > 3.9But 3.9 in 108 games > 5.0 in 142 games

Frankly I think both were deserving of it though.

alxn
4 years 9 months ago

I completely understand what you are saying. However I fail to see the relevance of rate for an award that is based on total value. If you take away Heyward’s worst month his rate is much better than Posey’s. In your scenario he is being punished for playing a full season, which contradicts the nature of the award. I agree, both were deserving, but I feel Heyward provided more value.

MB923
4 years 9 months ago

Well unfortunately that’s something you can’t do is take away this or add that.

Heyward is not a bad choice, Posey is not a bad choice. Feliz is not a bad choice, Jackson is not a bad choice.

I’m not a huge fan of WAR but I was just responding to those saying Heyward was better because he had a higher WAR.

I mean so many people are going to say they think Cabrera should be MVP. He was 7th in WAR in the AL alone. Even Adrian Beltre had a higher WAR (2nd highest to Hamilton).

Agan I was just respondin to those who use WAR.

I just think WAR puts way too much factor in defense. Which is what makes Beltre 2nd since he plays 3B, but that doesn’t mean he is the 2nd most valuable player (at least in my mind)

Whole_New_World
4 years 9 months ago

Posey missed the first TWO months, actually, and produced numbers that are comparable to Heyward. Posey produced in 4 months what it took Heyward to produce in 6 months. Give credit where credit is due.

No one is saying Heyward is not going to be a phenomenal player. He is very young and very, very good. But to bellyache over Heyward losing ROY to Posey? Really, get over yourselves.

alxn
4 years 9 months ago

It’s just an argument dude. I have no idea why you would even come into a post like this if you are so sensitive to people disagreeing with others. I never said Posey sucks. He is a great young player. It is not true that Posey produced what Heyward did. As I pointed out in another comment, Heyward got on base nearly 100 times more than Posey.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

Heyward got on base about 90 more x because he had 180 more opoortunities. The difference between Posey having a .393 OBP vs the .357 he posted is as simple as 5 HBP, 5 3 and 2 counts that go his way next time and 5 squiblers that get past the SS.

malcolmec
4 years 9 months ago

Not entirely ridiculous if you put worth in rate stats such as OBP, SLG, OPS, etc. which routinely make players who were really hot and then got injured before they could fall back to earth look better. I think of these stats as measures of theoretical value–they indicate how valuable players would be compared to each other if they played the same amount, whereas homers, hits, walks, etc. represent actual value. Both kinds of statistics have some merit, which is why its silly that the sabermetric crowd seems to worship rate stats while writers/fans often revere raw numbers. Both should be considered important.

N1120A
4 years 9 months ago

Why should Posey be penalized for his team robbing him of a year of service time?

N1120A
4 years 9 months ago

Why should Posey be penalized for his team robbing him of a year of service time?

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

I could careless about WAR. The arguement is who had the better year. IMO, getting practically the same offensive production from a C as you do from a RF makes the C a little more valuable. Aside from OBP Posey was just as good as Heyward AND he had FAR MORE defensive responsibilities as Heyward.

Undisputable facts:

A catcher has to handle the pitching staff (5 starters and 5 relief pitchers). He has to attempt to throwout SB threats. He has to not only avoid making his own mistakes (Passed balls) but also has to try and limit or negate mistakes by others (preventing wild pitches and backing up 1B on throws). He also has to block the plate on plays at home and deal with the wear and tear of C 150-200 pitches a game. Posey has to do all that and still manage to hit as many HRS as Heyward in fewer at bats and post a .300+/.350+ line.

alxn
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t think you quite understand what you are talking about. First of all, it wasn’t anywhere near the same offensive production. Heyward provided far more offense by getting on base much more than Posey. Secondly, all of what you said about Posey having to do as a catcher is factored in. Posey is measured against other catchers. Heyward is measured against other RFers. They were basically even in terms of per game value but Heyward was more valuable because of how many games he played.

You can’t say things like “aside from OBP.” That is probably the most important stat.

sojuboi
4 years 9 months ago

The most important stat is winning games. I get what you’re saying in thinking Heyward should have won. I respect that. But looking at the bigger picture, towards the end of the season, everyone heard about the red hot Giants and Buster Posey. Heyward was actually kind of streaky. OBP is great but every other stat, including the most important.. winning games.. I think Posey wins… That’s what I think. Not telling you what to think.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

Get WAR out your head for a second because that really has no value in ANY real life evaluative process.

A C who give you 20 hrs, a .360 OBP and plays good defense is a lot more rare than a RF who gives you 25 hrs, a .375 OBP and plays good defense. Why? Simply because C is a position where defense is a lot more important than offense and when you can find both (offense and defense) at that position then it’s a HUGE commodity.

Do you know the difference between Posey posting a .357 OBP and posting the same as Heyward’s .393? 5 hit by pitches, 5 3-2 count that went the other way and 6 squiblers that have eyes and barely make it past the SS glove.

OBP is a great stat but you can’t say that this 1 stat makes him clearly the better player.

As for an apples to apples comparison. There was exactly 3 other C that had at least 15 hrs, at least a .340 OBP and at least a .275 bat avg (McCann, Martinez, Soto). There were 6 RF (or can play OF) that had at least 15 + HRS, .375 OBP and .270 bat avg (Cruz, Cargo, Bautista, Werth, Choo, Hamilton) and add Wellingham and Ordonez on if they were healthy. There are simply more RF than can do exactly or close to what Heyward does vs C who can do what Posey does.

TheHotCorner
4 years 9 months ago

“5 hit by pitches, 5 3-2 count that went the other way and 6 squiblers that have eyes and barely make it past the SS glove. ”

I don’t care if Posey or Heyward won the award. I think they were both deserving but that line has to be one of the most absurd things I have ever read. Seriously, if you think it is so easy to get on base 16 more times is so easy why not just tell George Brett how easy it should have been to hit .400 in 1980. After all he only needed 5 more “squiblers”.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

I’m not saying how it easy it is to hit .390 I’m showing how simple it could be for the opposite to happen. I don’t get caught up on OBP for 1 year because it’s a thin line between being a “lucky” .390 and being a .357 guy.

sojuboi
4 years 9 months ago

Well said. But IMO, I do believe Posey will be better than Heyward in the long run. Buster Posey is already getting future superstar title and being compared to Joe Mauer. Heyward… Jay Bruce?

JerryJc1973
4 years 9 months ago

I don’t understand how the votes are cast. How can a reliever who doesn’t play everyday get more votes than a player that plays almost every day. I am not going to say that Nefi doesn’t deserve recognition but I don’t believe he should have beat Jackson out. I just believe that it’s another strike against the Detroit Tigers in this horrible year of bad calls and voting. Well, lets hope that Miggy wins the MVP.

TwinsVet
4 years 9 months ago

People really need to get past the whole “but the guy plays everyday!” thing. It’s constantly used to dismiss pitchers and catchers.

Jackson was a solid leadoff man for a .500 team. Feliz was an elite closer for a WS team. Which one do you think is harder to replace?

And yes, Miggy should get MVP. If he doesn’t, I’ll be complaining right alongside you.

JerryJc1973
4 years 9 months ago

TwinsVet, I agree with you to an extent. I guess it does pay off playing for a world series team BUT there should be some consideration in how many games each plays. I am not saying that Feliez wasn’t a great closer for a world series team but you can’t deny that Jackson was a better candidate for the award. That’s like saying the Hamilton should win MVP because he was on a world series team. The post season shouldn’t have any deciding factor on the awards.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

TwinsVet
4 years 9 months ago

I’d argue Feliz was the better choice because he was an All-Star, and worthy of the selection, while Jackson was not (setting aside, for a moment, the flaws in fan-voting for ASG’s).

Unfortunately, playing for a contender does get you more press and media attention, right or wrong. Unless I’m mistaken, voting for individual awards all takes place prior to the post-season – but there’s no doubt more writers are watching a late-season Texas-Anaheim game instead of a Detroit-Cleveland. And when Feliz gets a save there, people take note. A Jackson 3-for-5 night in Ohio doesn’t turn any heads.

theroundsquare
4 years 9 months ago

In response to “which is harder to replace,” both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference say Jackson using WAR. There are reasons for this to have been a close vote, but I would’ve gone the other way.

YanksFanSince78
4 years 9 months ago

It would be nice if they could divide up the ballot and creat an award for ROY pitcher and ROY position player.

MB923
4 years 9 months ago

Yeah I agree with that.

TheHotCorner
4 years 9 months ago

That is funny because I was just saying that to a co-worker today after the results came out. It is just too hard to compare a pitcher and a position player against each other.

MB923
4 years 9 months ago

Aren’t you a fan of WAR? If so, you do realize Miggy was 7th in WAR in the AL don’t you?

TwinsVet
4 years 9 months ago

WAR can be a useful tool, but it’s not the end-all-be-all of metrics. All the compilation metrics (WAR, UZR, etc) are subject to constant reform and are not perfect. I’d be willing to bet 99% of people on this site couldn’t even recite the formula that goes into WAR off the top of their head.

Miggy gets it because he was an offensive beast in the AL, not because he dominated any single metric.

MB923
4 years 9 months ago

Lol I admit I’m one of the 99%, although I hope you don’t think that makes me dumb! lolWhen it’s all said and done, there is no Right or Wrong answer. But it would be more proper to say Player A was better or more deserving than Player B. That’s why all winners are usually amongst the top candidates. You’re never going to see a surprise winner, meaning a player who wasn’t mentioned amongst deserving candidates, ex. let’s say as you mention Jayson Heyward, win the MVP.When it comes to MVP voting, I’m more of a fan of giving it to players on playoff teams first. While it’s true it’s not fair that players like Miggy and Bautista were on bad teams, you can’t say it’s unfair that Hamilton, Cano, etc. were on good teams/playoff teams also.While I don’t think MIggy is a bad choice, I’d go with a player on a playoff team/contender first. Is it right or wrong? No, because there is no right or wrong. It’s all a matter of opinoin on who’s the MVP. Now when it comes to saying who is the better hitter, the better pitcher, etc. then those can be proven with stats. As you first said, WAR can be useufl but it’s not always perfect to use.My top 10 AL MVP candidates in order1- Hamilton2- Cano3- Crawford4- Miggy5- Bautista6- Longoria7- Beltre8- Lee9- Price10- SabathiaI’m not a fan of giving pitcher MVP’s amongst the top of the list unless there is no great offensive player, something that hasn’t happened in about 25-30 years and probably won’t happen againYou may disagree with my list (Heck I just thought of it in 5-10 minutes so mine could even change if I thought harder), but I’m not right or wrong, likewise for you or anyone else.