Odds & Ends: Pirates, Royals, Sizemore, Matsui

Links for Saturday…


Leave a Reply

95 Comments on "Odds & Ends: Pirates, Royals, Sizemore, Matsui"


NYBravosFan10
4 years 8 months ago

Take him Rakuten!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pay half his salary and he’s yours!!!!!

RiverKKiller999
4 years 8 months ago

Please Golden Eagles, take Kawakami!!! What NYBravosFan10 said…^

BG921
4 years 8 months ago

Get a life people, you talk like Kawakami tortures your children all day… I already like Golden Eagles, so it will be awesome to see Kawakami with their staff. Having a potential 1-2 punch of Masahiro Tanaka and Kenshin Kawakami would be awesome!

4 years 8 months ago

anyone crapping on KK should compare his stats and D Lowe’s when KK was demoted. Virtually identical except for W-L. At the time, the pitchers KK went up against had roughly 1.50 better ERA than the pitchers D Lowe faced.

The braves gave up on him far too early but that’s in the past now.

RiverKKiller999
4 years 8 months ago

We don’t have to compare anything, Lowe had his best year with the Braves last season though, IMO it didn’t seem like it.Yes, 4.00 ERA isn’t good but it’s better than what KK would have gotten if he played a full season.

I remember that too, KK got no run support as well.But, come on, he just doesn’t belong here, no offense to KK, though.

4 years 8 months ago

I am aware Lowe had his best year as a brave. I’m saying at the time of KK’s demotion, his stats were identical to Lowe’s. And, Lowe makes 15 mill vs. 6.67 for KK. It’s interesting to me that KK takes such abuse on the message board.

We had Minor in the rotation at the end of the season and he posted close to a 6 ERA. It would’ve been nice to have been able to go to KK in that position. But hey, “he doesn’t know how to win!!!!!” :sigh:

4 years 8 months ago

Let’s not blow Minor’s numbers out of proportion here. He dealt with a tired arm after his first full season of professional baseball, advancing all the way to the big league level.

And as far as KK is concerned, no he didn’t torture my children, but he does torture the Braves ability to spend. I agree that his numbers and D.Lowe’s numbers at the time of his demotion were nearly identical. However, their salaries are not even close to being identical. Neither is their ability to pitch in the ML. Lowe is a proven commodity, and we saw him the last month+ after he tweaked his slider, dominant. I don’t know what happened to KK, but it sure seems like he had some problems with the coaching as well, for him to fall into the doghouse so fast. Remember, the Braves don’t like unruly players or players who don’t take kindly to coaching. Maybe KK didn’t want to do what Roger and Bobby wanted and now he’s on his way out. Just speculation, but something seems to have been behind the way he was treated.

4 years 8 months ago

And the braves are paying KK less than half of D. Lowe’s salary.

NYBravosFan10
4 years 8 months ago

We’ve tried with him many times, he’s just not a fit for the different aspects of american pitching. The guy pitched for 13 years in japan and sometimes it just isn’t gonna happen over here when you’re given a bigger ball that’s made of different materialand forced into a 5-man rotation instead of 6. Yes he has been plagued by lack of run support but even when he gets support he’s bad. I don’t have a personal problem with him and the main reason I’m so adamant about getting rid of him is because I feel bad that he’s lost into obscurity here when he could be doing something useful in Japan.

4 years 8 months ago

I think he was fine. Slightly overpaid, but fine. Again, at the time he was demoted, his #’s were better than the #5 pitcher of at least 10 other NL teams and had better stats than a lot of 4 starters.

I’ll be happy to see him somewhere else. Hopefully he can go to a team where it’s fans appreciate him and don’t base his perception purely on W-L. ‘

Again, other than W-L, his stats were identical to Lowe when he was demoted.

NYBravosFan10
4 years 8 months ago

Except here’s the thing. He was 1-9!!! You don’t get to 1-9 by having bad run support as the only culprit. Usually a guy that will get bad run support but is still effective will have a record like 7-9 or 10-11 or something like that but not 1-9. And unless you’re talking about Cardinals fans you can’t realistically expect fans to appreciate those numbers and when it comes down to it, you can’t let personal feelings towards a player get in the way of what really matters. It’s terrible that it’s like that but that’s what baseball is about sometimes.

4 years 8 months ago

Are you trying to say that I’m letting personal feelings get in the way? I’m looking at stats! You’re the one saying you don’t need to look at them. I have a feeling I’m talking to a wall but let me try to explain it this way – if Tim Hudson had to face Roy Halladay 10 times, Hudson would have a losing record over those 10 games. It’s not because Tim Hudson doesn’t know how to win. It’s because he’s facing a better pitcher.

Thanks for the laugh though. I’m going to work on getting my feelings out of the way and stop looking at those pesky stats.

Brandon Woodworth
4 years 8 months ago

Then you, please contact your favorite teams GM and tell him to trade for this guy. Give us $3m and you can have him. See how you like him at the end of the year.

4 years 8 months ago

I’ll also assume you’re not a big Hanson fan because even though he has great stats, his record was under .500 for the year. I guess he just doesn’t know how to win. K-Rod either.

NYBravosFan10
4 years 8 months ago

I think we’ve hit a stalemate on this. We’re both right. Forget the personal feelings thing I think I worded that wrong. You’re looking at ERA which can sometimes show that a pitcher isn’t getting good run support and I’m looking at the thing that is a direct indication of the outcome of the game and is therefore a more important stat (wins) but can be misleading because of what you are looking at. So it all just goes in one big circle that ends in neither side caring anymore and just coming to the conclusion that he belongs in Japan and coming to America was a failed experiment. Sound about right?

4 years 8 months ago

Not really. I think he can do fine in the states. I wasn’t just looking at ERA. Since you think wins is the most important stats, I’ll take that to mean that you would take Paul Hughes, Justin Verlander, Jon Lester, Carl Pavano, etc. over Felix Hernandez.

4 years 8 months ago

or Phil Hughes even :-)

NYBravosFan10
4 years 8 months ago

Felix Hernandez is a special case. He and Zack Greinke. How they manage to get so many wins on trash teams is nothing short of a miracle. Kawakami was on a playoff team this year and he was bad during the time of year when the Braves were scoring runs in their sleep so you really can’t always compare the two

4 years 8 months ago

Can we compare Hanson & Lowe? Hanson had a sub-500 record. Are you saying Lowe is a better pitcher than Hanson?

4 years 8 months ago

Alright, I’ve got to get off here but you made my point for me. In your last line, you said you can’t always compare the two. However, you can always compare ERA, WHIP, K’s, BBs, etc.

You don’t seem to care that KK went up against MUCH better pitching than Lowe did, in fact over 1.5 runs per game better. I take it into account when I’m judging someone’s performance. As I said earlier, as good as Hudson was, if he had to face someone better than him 10 times, he’s going to be a losing pitcher.

Thanks, though, I enjoyed the discussion.

roberty
4 years 8 months ago

Are you looking at the stats? Kawakami had the worst WHIP of any qualifying pitcher on the team, and he allowed a whopping 10.1 Hits/9. OK, I get it. His strikeout and walk rates are eerily similar to 2009 when he wasn’t that bad. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t suck.

Kawakami was worth a whopping -1.0 WAR in 2010, making him the Atlanta Braves least valuable pitcher, and second least valuable player. Only Nate McLouth was worth less. Derek Lowe was the Braves fourth most valuable pitcher, with a 1.7 WAR, and the Braves ninth most valuable player overall.

If you look beyond the stats and actually watch some of his starts from 2010 you will see why he went 1-10. His pitching style actually hurts the defense and offense. His starts are excruciating. He throws tons of pitches, gives up on batters, allows tons of base runners and is constantly working his way out of jams. Every inning he pitches takes so long that the defense loses its edge, and we finally get to bat again the opposing pitcher is well rested and the hitters eagerly put the first pitch in play in nearly every at bat.

WrigleyTerror37
4 years 8 months ago

So let me get this straight. There is a posabillity that Sandberg’s whole staff in Tripple A might be on the Cubs coaching staff But not Sandberg!!! This just doesn’t add up!

TDKnies
4 years 8 months ago

As much as I dislike ignoring my inner voice of logic and reason, I agree with NYBravo. I know KK was every bit as good as Lowe in that time and I was as big a supporter of him as anyone. Heck, I defended him several times during discussions on the Braves games boards at ESPN’s site. But at a certain point, you put logic aside and do what the rawest of all stats says. And that stat says KK wasn’t winning games. He got less run support and lost for that reason, but how long do you keep stubbornly sending him out there, waiting for what SHOULD happen to happen while it keeps not happening?

Dave_Gershman
4 years 8 months ago

What does “offering big” mean? And as long as it’s something good for my Royals I’m happy.

picked_u_off
4 years 8 months ago

Great question, Span. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Fruitbowl
4 years 8 months ago

Means Moore is about to offer Franceour a 3-year deal for 21$M and the Pirates are offering McCutchen up to any team willing to part with three turds and a 100$ bill.

4 years 8 months ago

Braves should get McCutchen to compensate not getting Carl Crawford to sign for 4/$65 and kick McClouth outta there…

McCLUTCHen
4 years 8 months ago

The Pirates would only trade Cutch to the Braves if they get Tommy Hanson or Jason Heyward in return.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 8 months ago

Good call, and the Pirates would have to ask for one of those two…Maybe Kimbrel.

SteelCityResident13
4 years 8 months ago

The Pirates would ask for both. There is no chance in hell that Clutch gets traded, come on people

louis_09
4 years 8 months ago

Andrew McCutchen gets traded IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. Period.

It ***won’t*** happen…but if Atlanta offered up Heyward+, that trade could happen. There is *ALWAYS* a chance, but it would have to be ML ready talent in excess of what McCutchen provides — not a bunch of “prospects”.

SteelCityResident13
4 years 8 months ago

My deal for you: Heyward, Hanson, and Chipper for 1 season (Fav. Player, only reason) and you can have Clutch. haha

SteelCityResident13
4 years 8 months ago

My deal for you: Heyward, Hanson, and Chipper for 1 season (Fav. Player, only reason) and you can have Clutch. haha

Otis26
4 years 8 months ago

I’m not sure what the Royals would be offering big for. Most knowledgable fans realize 2011 is another throw-away season. Only thing I can think of is they’re trying to bring in someone to put butts in seats to buy another year of patience. It’s not like we’re only missing one piece…

Dave_Gershman
4 years 8 months ago

For our sake, I personally think its best to give the in house guys the 2011 season to play their hearts out and give them one last chance to prove they are worth something. I’m primarily talking about Dyson/Gordon/Getz/O’Sullivan/Pena/Hochevar/Tex/Tejeda/

By the time they play or don’t play well, its Moose/Hosmer/Monty/Duffy/Coleman/Keating/Hardy/Giavotella time anyway, so we’ll see.

McCLUTCHen
4 years 8 months ago

So they are in the same situation as the Pirates pretty much, except the Bucs may be a year ahead but with worse prospects. This year is all about the individual performances and growing into a team

Dave_Gershman
4 years 8 months ago

Both teams have developing systems and should be in contention by 2013…I do agree that the Pirates have a more suited current Major League team, but the Royals minor league system in best in Baseball…It’s going to be awesome and interesting…

dthcm
4 years 8 months ago

Because the source is an agent don’t assume it’s just about free agents. They seem to know when trades are going down too. Even if isn’t one of their clients. Greinke straight up for Upton, and maybe even another player going to the Royals.

DempseyK
4 years 8 months ago

Well, truth be told, I think the Pirates are in the better position. Im scared to say this…because its been quite some time since being able to think like this: The Pirates have tons of major league talent, unfortunately all of the talented pitching is still 1-3 years away.

But when this pitching is ready, this team has the potential to win a few central division titles.

the most amazing part is to hear that these two franchises might financially outbid the red sox and mets…amazing thought to be honest.

Breeno
4 years 8 months ago

I like it, it’s never been this way for my entire life, actual hope! Can’t wait for the over .500 victory parade!

Dave_Gershman
4 years 8 months ago

and let me add…”This year is all about the individual performances and growing into a team” I assume you mean for both teams, and you are absolutley right…It’s going to be the end of consecutive losing seasons for the two after ’11…Things will be exciting!

dthcm
4 years 8 months ago

sorry double post

Breeno
4 years 8 months ago

I agree, it was unclear what he means by offering big, money or players? Offering big money would be great but players, I dint even know who the Pirates can realistically trade

dthcm
4 years 8 months ago

Maybe the pirates will sign their new LF/GM and new WR for the Steelers, Carl Crawford.

DempseyK
4 years 8 months ago

i wish the royals the best. Id love to see winning seasons for both of our underachieving franchises

Dave_Gershman
4 years 8 months ago

pretty soon dude. Royals 2015 World Champions…2014 divison winners. 2013 84 game winners.

DempseyK
4 years 8 months ago

when you get a minute, go look at the pirates wins and losses at home and on the road from last year. I rack that up to terrible management. If Clint Hurdle gets more talent, and manages for 162 games…the pirates have a legit shot of playing .500 ball this year…and if he finishes with 82 wins…he will have a statue erected in his honor outside of PNC Park lol.

chaifetz10
4 years 8 months ago

So the Royals and Pirates are going to bid heavily for Lee or Crawford? I definitely think Crawford would be great for the Pirates…

TheLastPirateFan
4 years 8 months ago

Only in a perfect world would they have a shot of signing him, cant help but imagining that outfield though.

DempseyK
4 years 8 months ago

Im becoming more at ease with Doumit, Jones, Bowker, Milledge, and Pearce splitting time between 1B and RF…

What I really want for Christmas is a real MLB SS and some capable pitching.

Breeno
4 years 8 months ago

I think Cedeno is an issue that can hold off one more season, what people do not seem to be realizing is that the offense was second to last last year, and they need help big time there as well, although the young jitters should improve…main focus should be starting pitchers

DempseyK
4 years 8 months ago

I really believe Brandon Webb could be the best off season signing by any team…I really hope its us. That is just a gut feeling from a guy who has watched alot of baseball. IMO he can lose 1-2 MPH off his velocity and still be incredibly effective. His Sinker is just that nasty. I would love to have him.

SteelCityResident13
4 years 8 months ago

He is another Ohlendorf. That said, I love Ross. When he is hitting spots, he is nasty

louis_09
4 years 8 months ago

Steel: I loved Ross when he was throwing his 4-seam fastball. Kerrigan turned him into a sinker guy. The guy had a canon before Kerrigan…look after 2009’s All-Star break, when the decided he should use his 4-seamer AND sinker!

louis_09
4 years 8 months ago

Steel: I loved Ross when he was throwing his 4-seam fastball. Kerrigan turned him into a sinker guy. The guy had a canon before Kerrigan…look after 2009’s All-Star break, when the decided he should use his 4-seamer AND sinker!

SteelCityResident13
4 years 8 months ago

He is another Ohlendorf. That said, I love Ross. When he is hitting spots, he is nasty

SteelCityResident13
4 years 8 months ago

Im sick of seeing the platoon in RF. I want a package put together to trade for one player, leave the rest on the bench to play on Sundays. It is difficult to play one day and then sit for 2-3, no rhythm can be started.

However, I am also ready for a new SS.

SteelCityResident13
4 years 8 months ago

Im sick of seeing the platoon in RF. I want a package put together to trade for one player, leave the rest on the bench to play on Sundays. It is difficult to play one day and then sit for 2-3, no rhythm can be started.

However, I am also ready for a new SS.

4 years 8 months ago

Grady Sizemore gets that 500,00 buyout and watch him sign with Boston or San Francisco calling it right now.

ThinkBlue10
4 years 8 months ago

Give me Sizemore anyday.

Doc
4 years 8 months ago

Agreed.

Infield Fly
4 years 8 months ago

3 years Buck, Benoit. Pirates, Royals offering big. This is a great market. Angels, Red Sox, Mets could be left behind.

Ha ha…like the Mets getting “left behind” is actually news?! They did a pretty thorough job of that all by themselves these past few years.

missyae
4 years 8 months ago

If Sizemore were available like that, you know the Red Sox would be after him. It won’t happen though.

4 years 8 months ago

Not sure what to make of Paulino to Colorado and what his role will be. Would love to see him as their 8th inning guy who takes over for Street if/when his arm falls off.

hk99
4 years 8 months ago

Anything that any writer (even Gammons) heard from an agent has to be taken with a grain of salt. Gammons isn’t as bad as Scott Boras’s mouthpiece Jon Heyman in this regard, but I still would not put too much credence into this report.