Email a copy of 'What Matters In Arbitration' to a friend
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By Ben Nicholson-Smith | at
Email a copy of 'What Matters In Arbitration' to a friend
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Joshua
jose should take the money he was offered by the jays
CitizenSnips
Surely those “complicated” Saber stats are explained in laymans terms in some form. Since baseball is modernizing why can’t the slow shift away from archaic stats begin? Or at least incorporate the other stats.
BlueSkyLA
I think the real message is, the people who run the teams and who have to write the checks don’t see them as useful measures of performance.
Patrick OKennedy
In negotiations between agents and clubs, that is true, but that wouldn’t matter if the agent could convince an arbitration panel that they’re important.
phoenix2042
especially the simple ones like FIP or wOBA. FIP is a pitcher’s fielding independent pitching, so it only takes into account the Ks, BBs, HRs and HBPs because those are the only plays that the defense is not involved in. it removes luck (especially xFIP). wOBA assigns a value to each action a batter can make (single, double, triple, HR, BB, HBP, ROE, etc, etc) and then compares it the average, thus giving a picture of how good of an overall hitter a player is, down to exactly how many more runs they give their team. and even simpler one to explain could be wRC+, which (ignoring how it’s calculated) uses those same outcomes of an at bat and then says how much better (%) it is than average. 100 is average, so 110 is good and 150 is around the MVP. how can intelligent panelists blow off a player just because they know about this stuff?
phoenix2042
especially the simple ones like FIP or wOBA. FIP is a pitcher’s fielding independent pitching, so it only takes into account the Ks, BBs, HRs and HBPs because those are the only plays that the defense is not involved in. it removes luck (especially xFIP). wOBA assigns a value to each action a batter can make (single, double, triple, HR, BB, HBP, ROE, etc, etc) and then compares it the average, thus giving a picture of how good of an overall hitter a player is, down to exactly how many more runs they give their team. and even simpler one to explain could be wRC+, which (ignoring how it’s calculated) uses those same outcomes of an at bat and then says how much better (%) it is than average. 100 is average, so 110 is good and 150 is around the MVP. how can intelligent panelists blow off a player just because they know about this stuff?
Alex
Why should the teams have to worry about alienating arbitrators with advanced metrics? As the article points out, winning or losing a hearing can mean a difference of millions of dollars, teams should be able to point to any and all statistics necessary that might further their case. Why shouldn’t we expect arbitrators to be familiar with sabermetric stats? I trust that MLB is intelligent enough to have people who serve in these positions to be more than familiar with the intricacies of the game and its financial facets. Wins shouldn’t factor nearly as much into a pitcher’s value, for example, as their FIP or ERA+, stats that are much more specific and indicative of success.
BlueSkyLA
Consider that it might be familiarity which causes them to not use these stats as a basis for awarding salary. Just because baseball fans have become enamored with “advanced” stats doesn’t mean that the people who run the teams necessarily are or should be.
Alex
I think even the most anti-sabermetric baseball officials still know enough to realize that wins are an exceedingly subjective statistic. Further, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable request to want arbitrators to at the very least be familiar with sabermetric concepts and statistics, even if they don’t agree with their significance or usage.
BlueSkyLA
I doubt much reliance is placed on wins for pitchers. That’s a totally lame stat. But my point wasn’t that the GMs, team owners, and other officials don’t understand the so-called advanced stats, but that they rely on them so little because they understand their limitations better than most fans.
Patrick OKennedy
They can make the arguments, but they have a limited amount of time to do so. Many long time baseball fans can’t get their heads around the concepts in advanced metrics and statistics, and the arbitrators are used to hearing the same old time worn stats. So, you argue what is familiar to them.
In any case, there are parameters that are set by the number of years and the salary range of what others at that position with similar numbers of games played have earned in the past. Unless a player’s numbers show performance well above the others, he’s going to fall within that range. Performance is only part of the equation. Service time and salary history are huge factors as well.