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By Howard Megdal | at
Email a copy of 'Do Owners, GMs Learn From Bad Contracts?' to a friend
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Isaac
No look at Theo
ZAK A.
Oh but the glaring contract that’s having more negative effect than Crawford is that 126 mil man in San Francisco. With pitching that clearly eliminates the need for Zito. If they had that 18 mil extra this year (45 over the next 2 with a 7 mil buyout for 2014) for position players they might get taken seriously this year and last.
tacko
Every big market team has their dead-weight contracts. The Yankees have Posada and Soriano, the Sox have Lackey and Dice-K, the Mets have Bay, the Phillies have Lidge and Ibanez, and the list goes on.
Giants fans should feel lucky their only BIG bust is Zito.
Bled Orange
Dont forget rowand
Bled Orange
And it wasn’t as bad, but tajada for 6.5 mil are you kidding me
nostocksjustbonds
at least Tejada is only one year. The, 2/$22 to Huff isn’t looking so hot now either. But Zito and Rowand are the worst. I’m just glad they didn’t give 3 years to Juan Uribe.
Bled Orange
The zito contract feels like it has handcuffed the giants for a decade. Every year it just feels like were no closer to the end with that guy. It’s so fustrating. It’s rediculous when you are hoping your team throws your highest paid player so deep in the bullpen that you only have to see his face is in a blowout.
On the bright side sabean only signed one multi year deal even after wining the world series so maybe he is learning
dirtydez
No. Cashman gave A-Rod 10 years/275 mil at 31 years old.
Wek
Not Cashman. I dont understand why people like to bash on him. I dont like they guy but I dont hate him like some people do. The A-rod deal was done by Hank Steinbrenner. I believe Cashman even said he would not resign A-rod if he opted out.
Gator4444
To Hank’s defense they wouldn’t have won it all if he left. But now his body is breaking down and he has 5 years left. If the Yanks didn’t re-sign A-Rod in 07′ it would’ve been interesting if another team came even close to that offer. My guess is not even close, Yanks got shafted by Boras on that one.
Wek
I don’t have a problem with the signing, it is not my money after all but I don’t like when people bash Cashman (or anyone else) without even know the facts. And you cant really give all the credit to Boras, I mean it shouldn’t be hard to get a massive contract when you have a retarded owner willing to get pounded from behind.
fitz
I wonder if GM’s have noticed that not many of these 100+ million dollar deals usually play out well for their ball clubs. ..
MattCMoore
Yea, thats what ive been thinking…
East Coast Bias
Depends on your definition of “play out well” though, fitz. If you win a championship from it, even one championship, maybe it’s worth it. Owners and GMs know the player won’t produce what he’s being paid in the latter years, but they have to overpay to guarantee they sign the player during his prime years.
MetsFanXXIII
Crawford wouldn’t have gotten Crawford money if Werth hadn’t signed that insane deal in the first place. Obviously, as the better player at the time, Crawford had to top it.
melonis_rex
Not necessarily. Signing early can mean more money, and the factor of overvalued vs.undervalued skill sets and park factors.
See: the DH market.
MetsFanXXIII
I’m not sure what you’re saying really applies to this specific circumstance. Crawford was the best available outfielder, he could’ve signed whenever, it wasn’t going to hurt his value either way. Crawford was good, but I don’t think he became $142 million good until the market dictated that Werth was $126 million good. If you’ll remember, Crawford signed a few days after Werth. Clearly, the Werth deal was used as a barometer in negotiations. We knew heading in to the offseason that Crawford would get more than Werth, and a crazy deal for Jayson pretty much ensured a crazy one for Carl as well.
Ben Drew
and also that’s why Werth wanted/needed to sign first. Knowing that there were teams who didn’t think they could land Crawford but could probably land Werth, it was essential to sign a deal first otherwise he would probably made significantly less than whatever Crawford would have made had Crawford signed first, ie 90 mil to Craw’s 110. The Nats were the ones to overextend themselves to keep the fans in the wake of Strasburg’s injury thus raising the market for Crawford and all other deals after that.
Boras new this was the way to play it too.
My problem is that each year you hear talk of how Gm’s are gonna cut back on large deals etc and then when the market opens up one of them blows their respective load right off the bat, souring the rest of the winter. Essentially it’s a game of jealousy. Each GM/Owner/Management team wants to get the best players they can. They have X amount of money they can/are willing to spend. When one domino falls, not in their favor, then they freak out and sign the Adam Dunn’s of the league.
ice_hawk1002
they’re both going to make vernon wells look like a bargain
Lastings
Tony Reagins has never heard of a bad contract.
chico65
I’m as guilty as anyone else on here for raggin’ on Reagins, but isn’t it just a bit too easy? It’s starting to lose its fun for me 🙁
Lastings
Yeah, but you gotta make light of another Angels season where they have come up short. He is like the George Costanza of GMs. He does everything the opposite of what is considered “right.” Only the opposite has yet to work for Tony.
chico65
It’s like he thinks he’s in some Bizzaro world
Lookouts400
Soon to be former Orioles President of Baseball Operations Andy MacPhail says there is no such thing as a bad one year contract. Someone above mentioned Tejada’s 6.5 mil, how about Vlad Guerrero’s eight million for this year? If Lee had stayed in Baltimore, he likely would have ended up in the 25 HR range, with 75-90 RBI, not horrible, but Vlad is no where near that level, and of course, is strictly a DH. The only thing going for him is that he is a Type B FA, so if they offer arbitration and he signs elsewhere, they’ll get a pick. But will they take the chance on him accepting arbitration?
Then there’s two huge contracts coming up in the off-season, and both have definite possibilities of becoming bad contracts, Fielder and Pujuls. They might be worth all that money in the short term, but both are expected to get at least six years, what will they be worth in years five or six?
BlueSkyLA
The reason players get overly long contracts, beyond any reasonable expectation that they can still perform, is the huge inequity in spending power between the teams. The wealthy teams can afford to dump the last few years of a bad contract at a loss and move on to the next big contract. So I think the practical reality is, these so-called “bad contracts” only really matter to the teams with modest spending power. The wealthy teams are driving contract lengths.
johnsilver
I always was amazed way back that the Omar Moreno/otis Nixon type players who could do nothing but slap down at the ball, hope it found a hole, then if they got on base try to steal were so valuable back then.
Neither of them could throw, were terrific or anything CF even. Glorified Joey Gaithright types is it. Neijer Morgan types at best, yet back then, the Pirates and Braves thought they were great.
Patrick OKennedy
Dontrell Willis, $ 29 million, 3 years
Carlos Guillen, $ 48 million, 4 years
Gary Sheffield, $ 42 million, 3 years
Nate Robertson, $ 21 million, 3 years
Jeremy Bonderman, $ 40 million, 4 years
Pudge Rodriguez, $ 13 million option picked up
Magglio Ordonez, $ 18 million option vested, and a $ 10 million extension
Brandon Inge, $ 24 million, 4 years- and a $ 5.5 million extension
Kenny Rogers, $ 8 million extension
Todd Jones, $ 6 million extension
Over $ 72 million a year in “bad contracts”- and not a single new free agent player among them. Looks like somebody learned his lesson.
kimofromkauai
Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. – Winston Churchill
BlueSkyLA
Churchill’s misquote of Santayana. Anyhow, the premise of the question is a little strange. You might as well ask why people continue to invest in the stock markets even though they go down a lot of the time. You cannot win if you do not play. GMs understand the risks, which not the same thing as not taking the chance.
TheFreak2011
I think Crawford, with his .253, 11 Hr, 53 RBI totals so far has hurt the top free agents this winter. People will be leery in this economy to offer any of the top guys, Fielder and Pujols, this kind of money. Crawford’s been gawd awful for a $20 million a year player, decent for a $4 million a year player.
chico65
Yeah, that’s right, because the Sox were paying Crawford to hit HRs and be among the team leaders in RBI
TheFreak2011
It was interesting to read his diary, apologizing for his terrible year. He has 18 stolen bases, not very many when you consider Jacoby Ellsbury, who is hitting .319 with 28 HR, 98 RBI and has 37 stolen bases. So, it begs the question, what is Ellsbury worth??? I’m sure Scott Boras won’t have any problem doing the comparison.
chico65
Luckily Ellsbury still has one more arbitration year. Arbs love the counting stats, so I think his career SB totals and seasons of 70+ and 50+ will help alot. I think 10 mil is in reach through arbitration, especially with a handful more each of HRs and RBIs and an MVP (or top 3 finish, which is a lock IMO). He’s having the best leadoff season since Rickey was in his prime, so you know Boras is just salivating at the thought of when he does hit FA. If he comes anywhere close to repeating it next season, I’d have to think 7 years, 160 mil minimum just to stay in the conversation.
Manny
Crawford is one of the most overrated players in the MLB. He didn’t deserve half the cash he was given by Boston. Crawford is nothing but a non-OBP speedy guy with a moderate amount of
power. He’s never been worth more than $8MM per, nevertheless $20MM+. The only difference in the degree of terrible that this deal is when compared to Alfonso Soriano’s contract is the fact that Crawford signed at a time when he was going into his 29 yo season, where Soriano signed going into his 31 yo season. I’d even rate this contract worse than the one given to Vernon Wells. At least Wells had shown true signs of being good enough to earn that kind of a salary. There was justification in giving Wells the massive contract, as he was looked upon as one of the absolute best players in the game all around. His example should have shone a massive light on the major risk at giving guys such long term, ridiculous deals.
I’m actually glad to see deals like this go sour. Maybe the GMs will take note and learn and finally begin reeling in the outrageous salary hikes. When a guys like Jorge de la Rosa get $10MM per, John Grabow gets nearly $5MM, John Buck gets $6M, and Miguel Cairo and Matt Diaz are making $2MM+ it shows that even the basic salaries are out of whack.
Only the truly elite players with excellent all around games and a reasonable amount of youth deserve such a contract. But they are beginning to be handed out a couple of times a year as if they are required to keep the MLB operating.
nostocksjustbonds
Some GMs are just bad at negotiation, particularly with upper tier free agents, though. Brian Sabean is a good example. He gets credit, for example, for signing Huff to a 1 year deal in 2010, but let’s not forget that was after he went after Nick Johnson and was turned down by Adam LaRoche on a multi year offer. He had to get somebody. Then he rewarded Huff with a stupid deal to keep him from going to the Dodgers. He matched the Dodgers’ offer to Uribe, only to be turned down. He got lucky there.
casorgreener
So I guess the answer to the question is “NO”