Yankees Notes: Montero, Cashman, A-Rod, Sabathia

You knew there would be a lot of Yankee news the day after the Bronx Bombers were eliminated from the postseason.  Ben Nicholson-Smith already gave us one batch of items out of New York today, and now here are a few more tidbits as the Yanks look ahead to next year…


Leave a Reply

273 Comments on "Yankees Notes: Montero, Cashman, A-Rod, Sabathia"


Guest
3 years 8 months ago

for four years they are both equally safe. for six-seven years, neither is even remotely safe.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

the rolls on his neck the give away?

Member
cubsfan97
3 years 8 months ago

Id be more comfortable giving CC 4 years than Reyes.  Id be equally worried about 6 years for either of them, and Id rather have Reyes for 8.  If I were negotiating with CC, and I had the pocket book that Steinbrenner has, Id be willing to give him 5 years 125 million, and then throw in a few option years depending on DL stints, inning pitched, etc.  If I were really paranoid, I would even require a physical examination for the options to kick in.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

There is absolutely NO CHANCE the Giants would trade Matt Cain for Jesus Montero.  None.

Member
notsureifsrs
3 years 8 months ago

“in a deal featuring montero”

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

Granted I misread it..But still..I don’t think the Giants would trade Cain even in a deal featuring Montero…ONLY if the Yankees absolutely blew their socks off…But I just don’t see it happening…

Member
Lunchbox45
3 years 8 months ago

so what you’re saying is, that the san francisco giants won’t trade Cain to the Yankees for a package which included Montero… unless they liked the deal the yankees offer..

hmm, interesting theory

Member
slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Great trades a one’s that are good for all teams involed.  Yanks-Grandy Arizona-Kennedy and Tigers- Jackson,Coke is an example of a great trade.

Member
crashcameron
3 years 8 months ago

Coke on your pitching staff? Hey, it’s the ’80s all over again!

Member
Guest
3 years 8 months ago

Tigers also got Scherzer let’s not forget
and the D’Backs got Edwin Jackson, who they later traded for Daniel Hudson

Member
3 years 8 months ago

Good analysis there LB45

Member
dirtydez
3 years 8 months ago

The Giants would be idiots not to make that trade with Cain having 1 year left on his deal.  They need OFFENSE!

Member
johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

Do the Giants need a DH in a league that only has a use for one like 18 times and also.. Lets make sure the kid Montero is everything he is supposed to be before the Giants give up a top 8-10 pitcher in the national league one would thing and btw… Why has not SF signed this guy LT? Hitters are far easier to find on the market than dominant starters.

Member
Steve_in_MA
3 years 8 months ago

No, the Giants would be idiots to trade a world class starting pitcher for a guy who cannot play defense, and occasionally hits a homer.  How many homers have won playoff games this year?  Guess what, the homer ain’t taking you to the WS.  Pitching does that.

Member
hrbomber1113
3 years 8 months ago

Breaking down Montero’s value into a guy that “occasionally hits a homer” is incredibly short sighted and dumb. He’s been compared to guys like Frank Thomas and Miguel Cabrera. Were they that great at defense? No, but the Giants need offense and putting him at 1B with Belt in the OF makes a ton of sense. I mean Aubrey Huff is awful and you don’t have much of anything in the OF.

Member
crashcameron
3 years 8 months ago

outfielders and first baseman are easier to find. and i’m not so sure the Giants are as deep in pitching as people instantly assume they are (Zach Wheeler for a rental is likely to haunt them)

Member
MB923
3 years 8 months ago

“Guess what, the homer ain’t taking you to the WS.  Pitching does that.”

Not always the case. Look at the Phillies in the postseason this year. And the Yankees did not advance Not because of their pitching but because of no clutch hitting. Now I know it wouldn’t have taken them to the WS if they beat Detroit, but a step closer nontheless, same for the Phillies.

Neither the Philles nor the Yankees lost because of pitching.

Member
notsureifsrs
3 years 8 months ago

did they lose because of a lack of hitting, or did the other teams win because of pitching?

in the case of philly’s game 5 last night, i don’t think you can really say that team needed more hitting. sometimes you just have to say damn, great game. they were good enough to win, but lost by a run. getting outplayed in a short series happens

Member
MB923
3 years 8 months ago

But again, I guess the way to breakthrough each series (since they are short) is to go game by game, the Yankees outscored the Tigers by 11 runs. The games they lost, they failed to come up big in the end. They had the tying or winning/go ahead run at the plate in the 9th inning of all 3 games they lost. Yes you credit Tigers pitching in that case, but simply put, the Yankees lost that series due to not being clutch. When they won, it was blowouts, when they lost it was “failing” in the 9th. I don’t know if you consider it “luck” or not, but with the exception of Benoit and Valverde’s Game 5, the Tigers bullpen did not pitch well this series at all.

I’m just simply stating that if Nick Swisher or A-Rod get a base hit with the bases loaded, the chances are, the Yankees win that series. Instead, each struck out, and the Yankees don’t score except for the bases loaded walk. I don’t know if you can call it “good pitching” or “luck pitching” when a reliever allows base runners, some to score, but hold on (such as Game 2).

Crazy year this has been, while the Tigers/Rays did not go the distance, all final games of each series were won by a run.

Again, my main point was, neither the Yankees nor the Tigers lost their Game 5’s due to their own team’s pitching.

Member
notsureifsrs
3 years 8 months ago

i hear you. all i’m saying is a lack of timely hitting is different than a lack of hitting talent. yankees and phillies had plenty of hitting talent, but it didn’t come through in a short series

that can happen with pitching too, of course, but good pitching is a lot less streaky

Member
slider32
3 years 8 months ago

The Yanks had a higher batting average than the Tigers .260-.228, and had a lower ERA3.27- 5.73 and lost the short series because they didn’t hit with men on base in the games they lost.

Member
MB923
3 years 8 months ago

That was my point

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

 You need clutch players to win championships. The is why the yanks need to get rid of nick swisher he doesnt get the job done in the postseason PERIOD. Obviously AROD deserves to go but whod take him!

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

You can’t rate a player simply based on what he does in a short 5 game series. If that were the case then logic would dictate that the Yanks resign Posada for 2012 simply based upon the exceptional series he had vs the Tigers.

Which one would you want?

A player that performs above average w/ a 3.8 WAR or the guy that had a great 5 game series but had a below average full season with a -0.4 WAR?

Member
slider32
3 years 8 months ago

When it comes to a 5 game series it is randon who is going to perform better, there is no formula!

Member
TannedTom
3 years 8 months ago

That’s not fair to Posada. Swisher is a fine hitter, who, over 38 career post season games has “hit” .169, with an OBP of .295 and slugs .323. These are pathetic numbers and very much out of line with his regular season numbers. The conclusion is inescapable that he doesn’t come through in the clutch.
Jorge’s numbers over 125 post season games are .248/.358/.387. These are not Ruthian stats, but come on, they are at least professional numbers, and are somewhat comparable to Swisher’s REGULAR season line of .254/.360/.466.
“Which one would you want?” That’s a no-brainer, I’ll take Posada.
Now I know Posada is unlikely to be back due to his age and the limited at bats he’d get, but a better move would be to refuse the option on Swisher and let him leave. Then move either Rodriguez or Jeter to LF, and Gardner to RF.

Member
Slopeboy
3 years 8 months ago

 I agree with just about everything you said. You had me until you went to the fantasy baseball world of plugging two future HOF’ers who are at an advanced BB age into a new position.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

So you would rather have below average production over 162 games inorder to get a 5 game hot streak? Great move.

Swisher led the team in OBP, was 4th in hrs and provided good defense this year with a 6.9 UZR. To think Arod or Jeter can do anything like that never having played the OF is ridiculous.

Member
MB923
3 years 8 months ago

As YFS78 said, it’s a small sample size. Plus do you realize Swisher led the team in OBP? .10 points higher than Granderson.

Member
Slopeboy
3 years 8 months ago

I’m not certain that it’s a small sample size with Swisher. We are talking 3 yrs of post season play here. ’09 gets overlooked because NY won, but he didn’t hit in ’10 and in this series aside from the HR, he disappeared again.

It’s a shame because he’s an easier target than A-Rod or Tex to pick on, but they have a slightly better track record. A-Rod did stand out during the ’09 post season and Tex brings the glove if nothing else. Swisher can’t even claim that.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

“Tex brings the glove if nothing else. Swisher can’t even claim that”.
6.9 UZR, but continue…..you amuse me (stroking my chin).

Member
Slopeboy
3 years 8 months ago

My point had to do more with post season performance than overall play. Though we both know that UZR with outfielders is somewhat skewed to say the least. And we both have been seeing Swish play the outfield since he got to NY. Possibly you stopped, but I still hold my breath when Swisher has to run after a fly ball in the OF. I will acknowledge that his defense has improved from atrocious  when he arrived to mediocre at present time. I don’t mean to dump on the guy because he’s been a great addition to the team, the fans and the clubhouse, but he’s just not my guy.

Member
MB923
3 years 8 months ago

But to answer your question, I call it lack of hitting if you keep leaving base runner after base runner.

Member
slider32
3 years 8 months ago

If the Yanks play the final game on Saturday and the temp is 80 then the ball Jeter hit is going over the fence rather than falling three feet short, there are just too many factors to consider.

Member
woadude
3 years 8 months ago

Carpenter throwing a CG is in my opinion the Phillies losing because of pitching.

Member
woadude
3 years 8 months ago

CG shut out by the way.

Member
MB923
3 years 8 months ago

Um, as I siad, the Phillies lost Game 5, simply because they had no offense. When you’re pitching only gives up 1 run, chances are you probably will win the game. The opposing pitching shut down the Phillies, but the Phillies did not lose because of Their pitching. Get it?

Member
Steve_in_MA
3 years 8 months ago

Actually, both lost because of pitching.  The Yankees pitching was not very good, and the Phils simply got outclassed by Carpenter on the final game.

Member
MB923
3 years 8 months ago

The Yankees pitching was not very good? Even slider said, the Yankees had a 3.27 ERA which was the lowest amongst all the playoff teams.

Neither the Yankees nor the PHillies lost because of Their team’s pitching. Are you saying the Game 5 loss for the Phillies is Hallday’s fault?

Member
Steve_in_MA
3 years 8 months ago

Correct, the Yankees did not pitch very good.  That statistic you guys are tossing around is very misleading.   For instance, Garcia had something like a 6.35 ERA in his outing in game 2.  The same for CC in game 3, 6.35.  CC and Nova combined for an ERA of 5.40 in game 5.  Their starting pitching fell short of “sucking,” but it sure wasn’t very good.

I am not blaming Halladay.  I am simply stating he was outclassed and outmatched on that particular night by a superlative performance by Carpenter.

I stand by my conclusion.  It is pitching that wins these things.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

“Guess what, the homer ain’t taking you to the WS.  Pitching does that”.
Granted, pitching plus defense usually = playoff team.

In reality, Giants starters ranked 2nd behind Philly. The defense ranked 5th in the NL. The team ranked last in Runs scored, OBP and 2nd last in OPS. They didn’t make the playoffs. Last year was a perfect storm and this year reality hit. Ignore the offense again and the same results will happen.

I’m not saying that Montero is the answers and in truth, I don’t want Montero to be traded, but the Giants can’t ignore the offensive holes again.

Member
slider32
3 years 8 months ago

The Yanks had the lowest ERA in the playoffs and they lost!

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

That’s sort of my point. Great pitching is the main ingredient but you also need the other components.

Member
johnsilver
3 years 8 months ago

Remember back in the 70’s when the Red Sox would lead the world in offense (opposite) but no pitching other than Luis Tiant up until ’78 and that season they had Dennis Eckersley, but nobody else in the rotation worthy whily the NYY were loaded. It was always pitching that would win it rather than having the worlds best lineup.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Right but one of the main problems the Yanks have had for a while is that they hit in clumps but all seem to struggle at the same time. We win a lot by 6 or 7 runs but not enough when the score is 4-3.

This year, including the playoffs, the pitching was good DESPITE not having any big names other than CC. In this case perception of no pitching was not the reality.

Member
Steve_in_MA
3 years 8 months ago

That’s highly misleading.  They had two strong performances, one from Nova and one from Burnett.  But they had 3 poor performances out of Garcia, CC and CC/Nova combo.  The statistic you are throwing around does not prove your supposed point that the pitching was not the reason for their losses.  The ERA of the Yankees starters over the specific 16.1 innings I am referencing was something like 6.06.

Member
deadsy
3 years 8 months ago

I guess you would know best since your native team made it to the playoffs. 

Member
Steve_in_MA
3 years 8 months ago

Maybe if I was the GM of the BoSox, your criticism would make sense.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

 Yeah just ask the Phillies Pitching gets you straight to the SHIP

Member
Steve_in_MA
3 years 8 months ago

Just “having” pitching is not enough.  They’ve got to show up and pitch well.  Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt failed them by offering poor performances (Lee 5 runs over 6+ IP; Oswalt 5 runs over 6 IP).  If their pitching had performed up to snuff, they would have won that series.

Member
55saveslives
3 years 8 months ago

Sabean has to at least listen to offers.  If we don’t get some offense, Cain is out when he becomes a free agent.  Montero plus some other top prospects.  Then he goes to first and Buster behind the plate.  Plus we could trade them up once in a while to give Posey a rest.

Member
hrbomber1113
3 years 8 months ago

I submit the Yankees wouldn’t even entertain trading Montero for Cain. Cain in Yankee Stadium and the AL East isn’t even close to the pitcher you see for the Giants. He doesn’t strike out a ton of guys and his underlying numbers are most impressive in suppressing home runs. Something that undoubtedly would change in the AL East and as a right handed pitcher in Yankee Stadium. Especially since he gives up a TON of fly balls. Add in that he has 1 year left on his deal and I have no idea why the Yankees would really give up much for Cain, none the less 6 years of one of the best hitting prospects in all of baseball.

Member
Hubbs2
3 years 8 months ago

Among active pitchers, Cain is 25th in k/9 and 11th in WHIP. Cain has learned to pitch to contact, he walks far less guys than when he came up. But it is still a nuetral park, he is still a top 10 pitcher.

Member
hrbomber1113
3 years 8 months ago

You didn’t even respond to what I was actually saying. WHIP isn’t exactly the best stat in the world but his k/9 would definitely drop without seeing the pitcher and actually facing good lineups. Last year his HR/FB also dropped well below a sustainable rate and will most likely return to normal. You really think there isn’t a massive difference for a right handed fly ball pitcher pitching in the NL West in a ballpark that suppresses home runs to right field and pitching in the AL East in a ballpark that allows a ton of home runs to right field? And he’s walking less but also striking out less. Contact is a good thing in a weak hitting division in a large park. Pitching to contact in the AL East in Yankee Stadium will get you killed. Add in the 1 year left on his deal and it’s not worth it. Not even close. If you can’t understand why trading a top 5 or so prospect for someone switching from one of the most ideal places to pitch for his skill set vs one of the worst with 1 year left on his deal then I dunno how to even argue the point with you.

Member
Hubbs2
3 years 8 months ago

His k/9 was 7.3 last year, the previous two years were 7.1. His career is 7.4, I fail to see how his k/9 dropped. Cain’s hr/fb ratio has always been abnormal, and his peripherals have always been great. Cain is known for pitching up in the zone, don’t you think that has something to do with the ballpark he calls home? I’d rather keep Cain if the return is Montero, especially considering the Giants don’t have the luxury of DH. Bet the Yankees would have loved to have him in the playoffs this year, especially considering what he did last year

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

You are still missing some valid points. I still think Cain would be a good pitcher in the AL but he probably won’t be the same.

Montero can also play 1b so to keep acting as if he wouldn’t be useful is simply a joke.

You can’t ignore the differences between the NL and AL though.

Member
Hubbs2
3 years 8 months ago

the giants have belt at first who is an above average defender there, montero has nowhere to play

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

I know where Belt plays. He can also play the OF as well. The suggestion made by others was that Montero could play 1B, Belt the OF and Posey @ C. However, my thought was that Huff would be a problem because he’s due another $13 mil or so for next year plus the buyout for 2013.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

I know where Belt plays. He can also play the OF as well. The suggestion made by others was that Montero could play 1B, Belt the OF and Posey @ C. However, my thought was that Huff would be a problem because he’s due another $13 mil or so for next year plus the buyout for 2013.

Member
Hubbs2
3 years 8 months ago

His k/9 was 7.3 last year, the previous two years were 7.1. His career is 7.4, I fail to see how his k/9 dropped. Cain’s hr/fb ratio has always been abnormal, and his peripherals have always been great. Cain is known for pitching up in the zone, don’t you think that has something to do with the ballpark he calls home? I’d rather keep Cain if the return is Montero, especially considering the Giants don’t have the luxury of DH. Bet the Yankees would have loved to have him in the playoffs this year, especially considering what he did last year

Member
hrbomber1113
3 years 8 months ago

You didn’t even respond to what I was actually saying. WHIP isn’t exactly the best stat in the world but his k/9 would definitely drop without seeing the pitcher and actually facing good lineups. Last year his HR/FB also dropped well below a sustainable rate and will most likely return to normal. You really think there isn’t a massive difference for a right handed fly ball pitcher pitching in the NL West in a ballpark that suppresses home runs to right field and pitching in the AL East in a ballpark that allows a ton of home runs to right field? And he’s walking less but also striking out less. Contact is a good thing in a weak hitting division in a large park. Pitching to contact in the AL East in Yankee Stadium will get you killed. Add in the 1 year left on his deal and it’s not worth it. Not even close. If you can’t understand why trading a top 5 or so prospect for someone switching from one of the most ideal places to pitch for his skill set vs one of the worst with 1 year left on his deal then I dunno how to even argue the point with you.

Member
slider32
3 years 8 months ago

Bottom line is that Cain will be a free agent in a year and unless he is willing to sign a long term contract the Yanks will not trade for him. The Yanks need a #2 pitcher and will be looking to put a package together for one with Montero in it.  The Giants need hitting and the Yanks need pitching so they might be a match.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

I feel the Yanks need to get more than a 1 year rental. A deal for Cain would probably demand Montero plus others. After 2012, the situation would dictate the Yankees pay at all costs to retain Cain and that, IMO, compounds the cost of Cain. 

IF Montero were to be traded it would almost have to be for a pitcher of the caliber and the contract of a guy like James Shields, Jon Lester, etc. That prospect price has to be offset by performance and the ability to retain that talent over a 3 or 4 year period at a fixed price or a young pitcher with 3 years of team control left.

Member
slider32
3 years 8 months ago

The Rays would never trade with the Yanks!

Member
MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

If the Yankees offered them the best package I bet they would.

Member
MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

If the Yankees offered them the best package I bet they would.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Wow….I did say “like” Shields as well as “like” Lester. OBVIOUSLY, most Al teams aren’t looking to trade with the Yanks. The operative words were “like”.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Wow….I did say “like” Shields as well as “like” Lester. OBVIOUSLY, most Al teams aren’t looking to trade with the Yanks. The operative words were “like”.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

 Intelligent post

Member
Mr_Anderson1017
3 years 8 months ago

yeah, the only thing the giants have going for them is pitching.  And don’t they already have Buster Posey?

Member
Jon
3 years 8 months ago

I hope the Padres don’t trade away Latos.

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

“There is absolutely NO CHANCE the Red Sox will trade Nomar. None. Nomar is a lifer!” Well, you get what my point is…

Member
jwsox
3 years 8 months ago

You have to admit montero for Cain makes no sense if the giants neith posey and belt assured to start next season at C and 1st.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

The only problem with fitting Montero in a lineup with Posey and Belt is Huff and his $12 mil that’s owed (assuming they decline the 2013 option and just pay the buyout).

Guest
3 years 8 months ago

Yeah, but, Nomar never pitched 21.1 innings of post season baseball allowing no earned runs while helping lead his team to a World Series title either….

Member
Guest
3 years 8 months ago

wait, so you’re saying it’s NOT a great idea to give a player a massive, exorbitant, ridiculously irresponsible contract???  gosh, i sure do feel bad those poor yankees.  what a tragedy.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

Not if his name is Zito. 

I think ppl have to put aside risk for a second. Pitchers like CC don’t come along often and when they do, they get paid and they get paid way past their prime. Yanks can afford to pay that price.

If he opts out I can see the Yanks offering, and Sabathia signing, another deal at something like:

2012: $24 mil, 2013: $24 mil, 2014: $24 mil, 2015: $20 mil, 2016: $20 mil, 2017: $18 mil, 2018: $18 mil

That’s 7/$148 mil and I can’t see any team beating that deal. He gets a slight raise for what is the tail end of his “prime” years and overall an additional 3/$56 mil. It would end at age 38 which is the same age (about) that Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay’s deals end and I think those are comparable pitchers.

Member
MaineSox
3 years 8 months ago

Serious question: do you think the Yanks might be better served to let CC walk and go after 2-3 other guys?  I know CC is an outstanding pitcher (one of the best lefties in the game right now), but he is going to be extremely expensive and his skills are likely going to be greatly diminished years before his next contract is up. 

I’m just thinking that they might be better off to go after Wilson, Darvish, and maybe a Buehrle/Jackson/or trade for someone.

Member
YanksFanSince78
3 years 8 months ago

It’s unrealistic to think the Yanks are going to get 3 quality pitchers and chances are there still not going to be as good as CC will be over the next 3 years. I completely understand that CC will not be the same guy in 4 years but that’s the price you pay. The Yanks have some luxuries some are overlooking.

Other than CC and AJ the rest of the staff is relatively inexpensive. AJ has two years left on his deal and everyone else is relatively inexpensive over the next couple of years as Hughes and Nova are cheep and there are a host of 3 -4 guys that can be added to the 2013 staff. 

The key is to develop the rest of the staff so that whatever they commit to CC for his age 35-37 seasons to be a #4 type starter is offset by cheap but higher performance of the others. 

Signings like Wilson and Darvish are going to come close to $100 mil and there’s no reason to think they will outperform what CC has given you.