Analysis And Background Of The Montero/Pineda Deal

It's not every day that two of baseball's best young stars are swapped for each other, but the Mariners and Yankees pulled off just such a deal today, as Jesus Montero and Hector Noesi went to Seattle in exchange for Michael Pineda and Jose Campos.  Here is some of the early reaction to this stunning trade, plus some information on how the deal came together…

  • "The risk for both clubs is low. The reward for both clubs is outstanding. This could be a transformational deal that will have fans of both clubs buzzing about for a long time," writes MLB.com's Bernie Pleskoff.
  • Replacing pitching via minor leaguers or the free agent market is far easier than attracting top-caliber hitters in Seattle, notes MLB.com's Greg Johns.
  • Mike Salk of ESPN 710 Radio in Seattle outlines the reasons why he "loves" the deal for the Mariners.  Also from Salk (on Twitter), he hears from "a non-M's baseball guy" who believes Noesi is a better long-term option than Pineda.
  • The trade makes the Yankees the favorites in the AL East, writes Scott Miller of CBSSports.com.  Miller talks to two scouts who rave about the Yankees' sudden surplus of young pitching that also includes Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos.
  • Dave Cameron of the U.S.S. Mariner blog sees Montero as developing into a Carlos Lee-type of hitter who is productive but not quite a superstar.  Cameron thinks the deal will look better for the Mariners if they were to sign a free agent starter like Roy Oswalt or Edwin Jackson, since then the team would have Montero's bat plus a pitcher that could match Pineda's production.
  • Yankees GM Brian Cashman feels he took a "huge risk" with the trade, reports The Record's Bob Klapisch (via Twitter).  "I gave up a ton (for Pineda)," Cashman said.  "To me, Montero is Mike Piazza. He's Miguel Cabrera."
  • "Some execs from other AL East teams believe Yankees just made an incredible trade," tweets ESPN's Buster Olney.
  • The two teams were "talking for weeks" about the deal, reports Joel Sherman of the New York Post (Twitter link).  Each side told the other that they had limited funds to address their needs.
  • The Yankees initially tried to acquire Felix Hernandez from the Mariners, reports Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter) and were willing to offer a package that included Montero, Betances, Banuelos and more.


285 Responses to Analysis And Background Of The Montero/Pineda Deal Leave a Reply

  1. Mcgrupp81 3 years ago

    Last note about what the Yanks were going to give up for Felix is interesting.

    • Infield Fly 3 years ago

      Yeah. Still, I’m glad King Félix is staying put. : )

      • I hope the mariners’ sound guy appreciates good humor and plays “Jesus Walks” every time he gets a free pass this year.

  2. Dylan 3 years ago

    “…were willing to offer a package that included Montero, Betances, Banuelos and more.”

    Wow, I understand that Felix is very important to that franchise. But they could have had a rotation containing Betances, Banuelos, Pineda, Walker, Paxton and Hultzen for years to come. Couple that with Smoak, Montero, Ackley, Franklin, and Liddi, they’d have a solid young team to build around.

    • The Yankees wouldn’t do that. Heyman just wants something to write about.

      • Nicholas Stuart 3 years ago

        This is probably the best point in the this thread.  Its easy to sensationalize about trades that didn’t happen.  “I heard they were going to give up…blah blah blah.”  A trade that never happened is just useless information when you don’t really no the terms of the non-existent deal.

    • BDLugz 3 years ago

      Or a bullpen of Betances and Banuelos… too risky to give up Felix for.

      • No, not too risky at all. Montero, Banuelos, Betances, and more is the best they would come by. No other team would offer that deal, and the Yankees wouldn’t either. It’s Jon Heyman.

        • You are delusional, the Mariners wouldn’t do that deal. They would essentially be dealing Felix for Betances and Banuelos, and the right to keep Pineda. No chance.

          • How is it just the right to keep Pineda. That literally makes no sense. In addition to the other pieces, you keep Pineda and receive Montero. You aren’t just keeping him. You are receiving a blue chipper, while maintaining a stud sp with two excellent sp prospects.

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            That still doesn’t change the fact that it’s nowhere near big enough of a pack for Felix.

          • Greg Gallo 3 years ago

            Seriously?  You are a crazy person, Brian.

            Scenario A: Mariners lose Felix, receive Montero, Betances, and Banuelos.

            Scenario B: Mariners lose Pineda and receive Montero.

            How in the world are they not “essentially” receiving Montero in exchange for Hernandez if he’s included in a deal for him wherein they keep Pineda? Complete insanity.

          • Seattle would also get the 20+ million owed to Felix each of the next three years and then two more years of team control of Pineda after that.  They could have taken that money this year and sign Prince Fielder or wait until next year and basically get any player you want.  So to be more accurate, a proper comparison would be Felix for Betances and Banuelos and the right to keep Pineda and Prince Fielder. 

          • Seattle would also get the 20+ million owed to Felix each of the next three years and then two more years of team control of Pineda after that.  They could have taken that money this year and sign Prince Fielder or wait until next year and basically get any player you want.  So to be more accurate, a proper comparison would be Felix for Betances and Banuelos and the right to keep Pineda and Prince Fielder. 

        • BDLugz 3 years ago

          You’re so wrong…

        • PennMariner 3 years ago

          I don’t think you understand the concept that Felix is essentially untouchable. 

        • melonis_rex 3 years ago

          They could and should get more, especially if they concentrated on elite prospects further away from the majors (which they absolutely should do if they decide to trade Felix). 

          Felix is the only  pitcher of his kind in the game. 

    • $3513744 3 years ago

      Those three would be a good start for a package for Felix.  It’s whoever else they would include in the deal that would make it work, and quite frankly it’d be stupid for the Yankees to trade for the deal that would land him because it would have to be massive.

  3. BeansNRice 3 years ago

    Yankees got schooled.

    • Dylan 3 years ago

      huh?

      • Encarnacion's Parrot 3 years ago

        They clearly overpaid for a pitcher who will, in high probability, get annihilated in the AL East. Flyball pitchers + AL East + Rogers Center, Fenway, Yankee Stadium and Camden = certain doom.

        Just look at Brandon Morrow.

        • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

          good lineups pounded him last year and i don’t think that’s going to change until he becomes more than a two-pitch pitcher. they’re great pitches, but good lineups did and will continue to just sit on his fastball

          but we can’t talk about him the way we talk about gio or even latos. he isn’t a finished product by any means, as most prospects of his caliber are doing great if they put up
          his 2011 numbers in AAA

          the best way to view this trade is prospect-for-prospect. NYY should not be expecting him to be a #2 in 2011, but that is a reachable ceiling over the next 5 years if he can develop his changeup

          • Name a 2 pitch pitcher (besides Randy Johnson, who was left-hnded) that has been successful as a SP for a whole career.  I can’t.

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            curt schilling maybe, and that’s because the splitter doesn’t tend to have much of a lefty-righty split. the slider has a huge one

          • Borderline haha.  My problem with Teheran and Pineda is they throw 3 pitches, only 2 of which are above league average.

            Unless they develop legitimate changeups I’m just not sure I can trust them.  You know?

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            yup. then again, if either of those two had legitimate change-ups, they wouldn’t be prospects – they’d be stars

            i do think that’s the best view of this though: prospect-for-prospect rather than prospect-for-#2 pitcher

          • Absolutely.  The Pineda fervor lat year reminded me of Angel Berroa.  Huge numbers early, but they turned out to be false promise.  I don’t know.

            Ps – you’re absolutely right about them being stars with changes.  Unfortunately, power pitchers tend to struggle to do that

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            It’s not unheard of you know?  But you’re right they are risking the odds.  

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            Schilling also actually had a whole bevy of pitches, he just didn’t throw most of them very often.

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            that is exactly how you’d describe ogando’s changeup though

            he “has” it in that he can throw it. but he doesn’t throw it often. it’s a show-me pitch, not a weapon

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            Right, but with Schilling he actually had like 6 pitches and all those ‘other’ pitches that he didn’t throw much actually added up to about 20% of his pitches.

            (In his time with the Sox he threw a fastball, change-up, slider, cutter, splitter, and curve)

            I’d agree that his success was based on his fastball-splitter combo, but one out of every five pitches he threw was something other than the fastball or splitter.

          • What about Steve Carlton? He had a killer slider, his biggest out pitch. I am pretty certain he had other pitchers, still his slider was his best to along with a keen fastball. That and the fact he kept himself in shape for a long time. I will go with Carlton to challenge you.

          • Could Carlton at least throw other pitches?  I mean these guys have 2 legitimate pitches.  That’s it.

          • RedEyedDream 3 years ago

            I expect him to mature quicker than Montero. Look at Nova, he went from a prospect in 09 to a playoff starter in 11. Pineda has already proven he can stay in the rotation, he’s going to have a ton more run support now than with the M’s, it’ll help him a lot. 

        • $3513744 3 years ago

          Brandon Morrow wasn’t exactly lighting it up in Seattle either.  On the M’s side, they’re also picking up a right handed hitter to play at Safeco.  It’s a risk both ways.

          • slider32 3 years ago

            I agree, their is no proof to the theory of moving to a new league makes you worse. Check out pitchers like Jackson who bounce around, their pitching performance is random. I would be more concerned with a pitchers durability. It’s hard to name 10 pitchers that have had 5 good years in a row in any division. Remember the Yanks have a potent line up that scores alot more runs than Seattle.

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            Well exactly, which is why it’s a good deal for both sides.  I think both sides are well aware of the risks for both players, but it at least addresses each of their needs if they pan out.

        • I mean, Jered Weaver has a worse ground ball rate and is an excellent pitcher.  I have concerns about Pineda, he might have a Javy Vasquez type implosion in NY, but this isn’t really an overpay.  Montero is a great talent, but the fact is he doesn’t really fit in with that roster over the next six years and A-Rod & Tex aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            3 of the 4 parks weaver plays in are very pitcher friendly

            4 of the 5 parks pineda will pitch in are very hitter friendly

          • Oh I agree, it will be tough, just trying to play devil’s advocate.

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            Yes, but now he traded places with Montero, so Montero has to play in those parks.  It’s a fairly even trade in terms of risk.

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            true, but it doesn’t really make sense to compare it that way. they didn’t give up montero’s would-be seattle production; they gave up up his would-be NYY production

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            Yes, and like wise for the M’s. It’s risky for both sides.

      • Encarnacion's Parrot 3 years ago

        They clearly overpaid for a pitcher who will, in high probability, get annihilated in the AL East. Flyball pitchers + AL East + Rogers Center, Fenway, Yankee Stadium and Camden = certain doom.

        Just look at Brandon Morrow.

  4. If Montero is “Cabrera or Piazza,” why did you trade him for a flyball pitcher? I understand Pineda is a good pitcher, but I wouldn’t have given up Montero for him.

    • East Coast Bias 3 years ago

      because he wasn’t going to stick at catcher, and Yanks have other catchers coming up in the system. None as good offensively, obviously. 

      Also, being a full time DH just won’t work on this team with aging superstars who will need days off or DH days down the stretch every year. 

      • I understand that point. But for Pineda? Very good young pitcher, but they could have gotten more. They could have had Gonzalez or Garza if they wanted.

        • $3513744 3 years ago

          That’s assuming you think Gonzalez or Garza is better than Pineda.  Seems many disagree with that. Point was they’re not going to get a caliber pitcher for nothing, and Montero was a big chip for them since he’s just a full time DH anyhow.

          • BDLugz 3 years ago

            Garza is immensely better than Pineda… whether it’s worth the 3 years of control you’re losing is another story.

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            You’re not the only one who believes this, but it’s also not the only opinion out there.  Pineda isn’t better at this point in time, but he’s still got the potential to become a lot better.  They’re taking a risk obviously, but there’s no chance they’d make a deal like this for Garza.  He might be a better player at this point in time, but he has nowhere near the value Pineda has.

          • BDLugz 3 years ago

            Totally my point – I have no idea where Pineda will be in 3 years.  I’d rather have Pineda than Garza at this point given their status, but to say Pineda is better now… I can’t agree with.

        • seajtl 3 years ago

          You seriously would want Gio over Pineda?

        • Pineda is better, younger and cheaper than Garza or Gio.

        • Thizzie 3 years ago

          IMO-Pineda is better pick up than both Gio and Garza considering the upside, the minimal $$$ owed and his age.

          • slider32 3 years ago

            Pineda also cost the Yanks less, and he will be good for the Yanks because they average 6 runs a game, plus their pen is better.

          • Thizzie 3 years ago

            agreed, he’ll do real well for the Yanks.  He was a legit #2 starter in his rookie year.  I can’t believe he was traded.

        • Thizzie 3 years ago

          IMO-Pineda is better pick up than both Gio and Garza considering the upside, the minimal $$$ owed and his age.

        • Pineda might already be better than Gonzalez and he has more years of control.  Pineda is much more valuable than Garza, that isn’t even up for debate.

        • Pineda might already be better than Gonzalez and he has more years of control.  Pineda is much more valuable than Garza, that isn’t even up for debate.

        • Tirameenlasbolas 3 years ago

          No way Beane was giving up Gio to the Yanks w/ out getting one of the B’s AND Montero.

    • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

      right. if he’s miguel cabrera, the yankees lost this trade by a good margin

      but i always like when teams talk up the player even after they trade him; that’s good form. can’t stand when fans immediately switch from “he’s so good” to “he’s so overrated” as soon as a guy is dealt

      • I don’t know what to think. I like the deal because Pineda is a good pitcher, but I think they could have gotten more for him. Plus I really loved Montero. Oh, well. I guess I have to love Pineda now!

        • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

          you should. he’s the best pitching prospect they have (even though he’s not technically a prospect anymore)

          if it were me, i’d have preferred to keep montero. but you really can’t criticize this deal for the yankees. long-term, it’s likely pretty even. short-term, they are now easy AL favorites

      • YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

        I agree. It’s like they feel like they have to diminish what they gave up to make themselves feel better. Also, I’m so sick and tired of ppl saying the Yanks need to rest their old players at the DH spot. Arod IS a concern because of his health but that would’ve been a good problem to have assuming Montero was the hitter they felt he would become. No way is Jeter worth a day off and Tex is still young enough to stick at 1b and when he needs a rest,….sit him on the bench. Who else are these “old players” people refer to.

        No down the line, it would’ve been nice to have Montero’s bat in the #3 or #4 spot during his prime years but I can’t help but imagine how good this can work out if Pineda pitches well.

        • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

          2012 is one thing, but in 2013 you’re looking at

          sabathia
          hamels/cain
          pineda
          hughes/nova
          burnett

          that’s going to be pretty impressive. banuelos & co will be knocking on the door too. you have to like what cashman has put together in terms of organizational pitching depth. hitters are a lot easier to acquire on the free agent market

          • Guest 3 years ago

            when are yanks fans going to realize that both hughes and burnett are at best questionable???……i would take nova over those clowns anyday and the fact you don’t have nova a guranteed 4 in your hypothetical rotation is beyond me

          • jjs91 3 years ago

            When are people going to realize notsureifsrs is a redsox fan

          • Guest 3 years ago

            im just saying in general…..how many times have you seen yanks fans say burnett/hughes are good…..i didn’t imply that he was, im just saying in general….

        • $3513744 3 years ago

          You worry too much about down the line.  “Down the line” if the Yankees need another big bat for the 3 or 4 hole, they’ll find one.

  5. East Coast Bias 3 years ago

    Move over Latos and Gio, this has to be the trade of the off-season!

    Losing Montero hurts, but Cash did what was right. Both sides dealt from a position of strength to address an area of need. 

    • Dylan 3 years ago

      Both Gio and Latos were MASSIVE overpays. Yankees played it right and won that deal. Especially if Campos continues to develop and profile as another middle rotation (3-4) starter.

      • Guest 3 years ago

        no kidding……the nats took it up the pooper on the gio deal…..that, unfortantely is the market for starting pitching right now….the yanks got off light imo………

    • Plus Campos is a high-upside guy.  Interesting get.

    • BDLugz 3 years ago

      It is interesting to see Latos pull in 4 strong prospects, while Pineda was worth… 1?  I understand Montero is highly regarded, but he’s a future DH.  It’s just bizarre from the standpoint of the Ms.  Plus to throw in another high ceiling pitcher baffles me.

      • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

        montero is a lot better than any of the prospects traded in either of the other two deals, but latos is quite a bit better than pineda

        • BDLugz 3 years ago

          I understand that, but it’s not like the other deals were pure quantity over quality.  Both had a few top 100 guys involved where Montero is top 10-15?  Just don’t see it, especially throwing in Campos.

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            keep in mind that the mariners were selling really high. pineda kinda surprised everyone in 2011 and di d not have a particularly strong second half of the season. he basically has gio/latos potential, with a very good rookie season under his belt

            i think NY still made the best trade of the 3, but pineda comes with more question marks than the other two

          • BDLugz 3 years ago

            Fair enough, but it’s tough to say Montero doesn’t still have a ? or two.

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            I don’t completely disagree, but it’s not like Montero comes question free.  He hasn’t even played a season at the major league level yet.

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            true, but all of the questions about montero have been about his position and defense. there isn’t a scout alive that expects him to end up worse than an above average hitter – and that’s what he was acquired to be

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            Of course, but just because they expect it, it doesn’t mean it will happen.  He still has to play the game and he’s yet to do that.  It’s a risky move both ways.

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            generally when everybody agrees a guy is going to succeed and it’s just a question of how good he’ll be, we don’t call him a risk

            equating pineda’s risk with montero’s is a mistake. their ceilings may be similar, but their floors aren’t

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            No, it would actually be very naive to call him a no risk. Just because it’s a lower risk doesn’t mean he’s no risk.  Just becuase it’s not equally risky doesn’t mean it’s not risky for both of them.  

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            you’re nit-picking and kinda straw-manning

            “risky” isn’t used to denote “non-zero risk”; it’s used to denote risk of significance

            there’s a non-zero risk with every player, including established stars. but it’s not worth bringing up

            montero’s risk is very limited, especially compared to pineda’s. that was and still is the point

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            Then agree to disagree, becauseI hardly see it being limited risk for a right handed batter to play in Safeco, none the less one that hasn’t even suited up for a full season yet. Plus this is getting ridiculous to read, so we can’t keep going back and forth anyhow.

        • 4theisland 3 years ago

          Latos is quite a bit better than Pineda? Not IMO he isn’t. Pineda is two years younger, throws as hard, and is more mature already. IMO he has more upside than Latos. I think SD hosed Cincinnati in that trade, and would rather have traded Pineda to Cincinnati for the four players they traded to SD for Latos. But for whatever reason it didn’t happen.

          Nobody got hosed in this one. It was one great young player for another. I get that the M’s had to throw in Campos to get the deal done. Everybody says he is a good one but I have not seen him pitch so what do I know?

          I’m sorry from a Seattle standpoint to lose Pineda, but elated to get Montero here. I don’t give a rip if he can catch or not — although Seattle has a great catching coach in Roger Hansen and we will see about that — but the M’s needed a big young bat in the middle of the order and they got one. Supposedly Montero has a bigger upside than Alonso or Grandal, good as they might be.  

          And for the bozos who think the M’s would ever trade Felix — give it up, already, will you? You’re all dreaming. Felix is in Seattle to stay. The dude has four — count ’em, four — major league out pitches. That kind of pitcher comes along once in a generation, That’s Juan Marichal territory. Does anybody imagine that the M’s don’t know what they have?

        • 4theisland 3 years ago

          Latos is quite a bit better than Pineda? Not IMO he isn’t. Pineda is two years younger, throws as hard, and is more mature already. IMO he has more upside than Latos. I think SD hosed Cincinnati in that trade, and would rather have traded Pineda to Cincinnati for the four players they traded to SD for Latos. But for whatever reason it didn’t happen.

          Nobody got hosed in this one. It was one great young player for another. I get that the M’s had to throw in Campos to get the deal done. Everybody says he is a good one but I have not seen him pitch so what do I know?

          I’m sorry from a Seattle standpoint to lose Pineda, but elated to get Montero here. I don’t give a rip if he can catch or not — although Seattle has a great catching coach in Roger Hansen and we will see about that — but the M’s needed a big young bat in the middle of the order and they got one. Supposedly Montero has a bigger upside than Alonso or Grandal, good as they might be.  

          And for the bozos who think the M’s would ever trade Felix — give it up, already, will you? You’re all dreaming. Felix is in Seattle to stay. The dude has four — count ’em, four — major league out pitches. That kind of pitcher comes along once in a generation, That’s Juan Marichal territory. Does anybody imagine that the M’s don’t know what they have?

        • 4theisland 3 years ago

          Latos is quite a bit better than Pineda? You’re just plain flat delusional if you think that.  Pineda is two years younger and throws harder. Plus he’s mature. Latos is a head case.

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            about 7 hours from now you should post yet another reply to that comment. make sure it contains no evidence whatsoever though, so it can match

      • Thizzie 3 years ago

        Agreed, nice points.  I think the Yankees did real well.  I would not have thought Pineda was available, yet everyone knew Montero was

      • I’d buy the Montero DH argument more if Yonder Alonso had any defensive value whatsoever. But anyways, why would an NL team trade for a guy without a position? Teams clearly have different evaluations of Montero, and the Mariners have always liked him.

        • BDLugz 3 years ago

          Alonso is actually average defensively at 1B… LF is another story.

    • BDLugz 3 years ago

      It is interesting to see Latos pull in 4 strong prospects, while Pineda was worth… 1?  I understand Montero is highly regarded, but he’s a future DH.  It’s just bizarre from the standpoint of the Ms.  Plus to throw in another high ceiling pitcher baffles me.

    • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

      it’s gotta be up there. latos is the better pitcher, but he cost a lot more given the years of control here

      • Thizzie 3 years ago

        Latos was terrible for the Padres last year, very inconsitent and very hittable.  No where near the previous year, the Padres fleeced the Reds on that trade.  anybody that watch Latos last year would agree that something wasn’t right with him…

        • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

          “Latos was terrible for the Padres last year”

          stopped reading

  6. Even if Montero is as good as Buster Posey, which he isn’t. However, lets say he is, how in the world is this going to help with the Mariner Anemic Offense? One player isn’t going to do it.

    • Dylan 3 years ago

      Ackley and Smoak will get better and Franklin will provide offsense at SS. I think good things are to come for Seattle. Especially when Walker and Hutzen are ready.

    • East Coast Bias 3 years ago

      A young core of Smoak, Ackley, and Montero (and even Carp) will be great to build around. Sets them up for the future, where they can add FA bats every year if need be, since pitching is coming up through the pipeline for cheap. 

      • Thizzie 3 years ago

        As a Ranger fan, didn’t mind giving up Smoak but I didn’t like losing Bevan.  Smoak is slow, slow hands and slow feet, he’s a little over-rated.  Bottom tier big league firstbaseman.  It’s cool he’s a switch hitter.  Ackley and Montero are very quality guys tho, Carp was a hitting fool last year too.  M’s need to bulk up in the OF and 3B, I’m not a big Gutierez fan either, guess I think they need some work.  They are in a heck of a lot better position than the Astros or Mets tho!  
        Got some decent young arms too, obviously since they can trade away a guy like Pineda

      • slider32 3 years ago

        Good trades are when both sides benifit.

        • FrankTheFunkasaurusRex 3 years ago

          No, good trades are when my team completely rips off the other team

    • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

      they shouldn’t get one good hitter until they have others? that’s quite a riddle to solve

      it works in their favor that montero is an opposite-field masher. right-handed hitters generally go to safeco to die, but montero should be fine there. i like this trade for the mariners as much as i do for the yankees; it really is pretty even

    • $3513744 3 years ago

      That’s assuming that Jack Z actually thinks he’s going to solve their offensive problems.  Chances are if you don’t think he will, neither does he.  It’s just a chance to improve it.  It’s got to start somewhere.

      • Well when the story first broke, they said “Impact Bat”
        Believe me Montero wasn’t the first name that came to mind.
        The other problem is the Mariners still have Olivio and his 3+ million dollar salary.

        PS Weren’t there some rumblings within the past few weeks, that some Mariner Brass thought Pineda wasn’t that good. The bottom line is the Yankee rotation got better tonight and now the Yankees are done shopping all in the matter of an hour.

        • $3513744 3 years ago

          Then you need to stop cherry picking what you’re reading and read more carefully.  The headline was “young” impact bat, and he clearly fits the mold even if he’s not the first to come to mind.  There is no problem with Olivo because Montero isn’t a good catcher.  Of course there were rumblings about that because he’s young and isn’t a polished pitcher.  Montero isn’t exactly a proven star either.

          • This silly new term ” Cherry Picking”. I heard that yesterday or the day before, because I used “WHIP” to evaluate a pitcher, who’s name I already forget.

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            It’s not so silly when you’re actually doing it.

        • radnom 3 years ago

          Check his MLBTR archive, its only a couple articles claiming the Mariners were not considering trading him despite interest. One earlier this month, directly preceded by one last July. Your bias is showing.

        • Guest 3 years ago

          did you not see montero during his end of the year call up?……lefty, you are po’d that the orioles didn’t get him…….you would be doing cartwheels if the o’s got montero and you would be telling us you are gonna go ahead and put reservations on your playoff tickets….

    • Stuart Brown 3 years ago

      He brings immediate relief in the department that they lacked severely, and that’s a right handed bat with power.

    • YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

      Ummm Montero projects to be a better hitter than Posey. Is that a real question? 

    • Guest 3 years ago

      the mariners are trying to do something about it……now, the rumors of prince going there are over, thank god……..i see that window closing for cartman jr……….

  7. I’m not sold on Pineda (or Teheran for that matter).

    That said, interesting trade for both teams.  Seems more teams are willing to do prospect for prospect trades these days.

    • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

      i wish they would happen more often

      • I agree.  I assume it has a lot to do with knowing what you have better than what others have (less risk in keeping your own guys).

        That said, I think trades like Cashner/Rizzo and Pineda/Montero can be incredibly useful to competitive teams

      • YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

        it just seems logical. I love the fact that Pineda is a step above being a prospect though. 

        This trade looks very good if you consider the depth of young mlb pitchers (Pineda, Nova, Hughes possibly Joba) and the depth of mlb ready pitchers (Warren, Phelps, Mitchell) and near mlb ready pitchers (Bans and Bets). Yanks also have some interesting pitching prospects at the A/AA levels too now with Campos, Marshall, Stoneburner, Heredia, Quintana, Nuno and Ramirez. 

        I drool over a possible 2013 rotation of Sabathia + Pineda + Hughes + Nova + Bans/Bets. That’s a lot of young pitching.

        • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

          i just wrote almost the exact same thing in a comment to you upthread. except there’s no way the 2013 rotation is without one of hamels and cain

          • captainjeter 3 years ago

            Expect  both to stay where  they are.

        • jjs91 3 years ago

          Quitana signed a major league deal with the white sox

  8. Tko11 3 years ago

    So if that package wasnt accepted for Felix, he is basically untouchable?

    • For now?  Betances and Banuelos don’t seem like guys the Mariners would like though so maybe they valued them lower?!?!

      • They want Banuelos and Betances. Every team does. But they just need more bats, not pitching. If I could start at over half of the positions on a Major League team, there’s a problem.

        • Banuelos and Betances doesn’t fit the “mold” that the M’s look for is my point.  I know exactly what they were looking for.

          Note – “exactly”, written above, was in reference to them looking for hitting, not pitching. It was not intended to be taken literally. Thanks guys. Super.

          • East Coast Bias 3 years ago

            Well, don’t keep it a secret! Tell us what you know, wise Jeff. 

          • Exactly what they are looking for? I don’t think any fan can say that about their favorite team. I didn’t think the Yankees were looking to trade Montero for Pineda. Do you work in the Mariner’s Front Office?

          • That’s cute.  I meant I know that they were looking for hitting as opposed to pitching.  Glad everyone took that literally though

        • PennMariner 3 years ago

          That’s cute that you think you could start for the Mariners.

          • I think it’s more sad that I could. I might only bat .030, but I’d be their clean up guy.

          • Thizzie 3 years ago

            You should probably stop make ridiculous comments, your losing credibility, the M’s offense is so weak tho, so maybe you could tryout I guess

        • The Mariners are loaded with starting pitching prospects, they would want position players for Felix.

        • BDLugz 3 years ago

          You’re kind of overvaluing these two prospects.  Both scream “possible future set up man or closer” to me.  Banuelos is much more interesting than Betances, regardless of ceiling though.

          • You mean a guy who walked almost 5 guys per 9 innings scares you.  I’m shocked.

          • BDLugz 3 years ago

            Yet look at the return Gio got…

          • I thought that was a moronic trade also.  Especially considering you could have had EJax who’s basically the same pitcher.

          • jjs91 3 years ago

            You arent exactly a scout now are you?

    • $3513744 3 years ago

      Was that never completely apparent?

      • Tko11 3 years ago

        Not from a realistic standpoint. If they can pretty much pick any 4-5 prospects they want from the Yankees farm system why would they not do it? I mean how much higher can his value get?

    • Stuart Brown 3 years ago

      You’d have to think so.

    • I think so, unless Felix Hernandez asks out. I think that he is more likely to be traded after next season.

    • East Coast Bias 3 years ago

      I wonder if a package highlighted by Gardner and Montero would have sufficed. 

      • Tko11 3 years ago

        Gardner is 28, not that hes old or anything but I would imagine the Mariners want younger players to be the top pieces of a package for Felix. Felix is unbelievably only 25! Its hard to imagine what a package for Felix would be but I would have to think it would be one that consists of multiple top prospects in a teams farm system.

  9. I still feel like the yankees shouldn’t have made the deal, I feel like the chance that Montero reaches his potential is much greater than Pineda reaching his. A two pitch fly ball pitcher doesn’t seem all that appealing in the AL East’s small ballparks.

    • BDLugz 3 years ago

      Yankees got Campos as well, another high ceiling pitcher.

    • Thizzie 3 years ago

      Pineda has a whole year under his belt; on a terrible team he was really one of only two bright spots on the entire team.  The word is Montero is weak on D or he’d a been in the show a year earlier, so it seems like Pineda is much closer to reaching his potential as a legit top of rotation starter since he has already done this (#2 starter as a rook) and Montero has played 18 big league games at DH.  Why do you think Montero has a greater chance of reaching his potential?

      • The yankees haven’t been able to develop many pitchers who are successful starters even after being top prospects. But they’ve shown they’re able to develop bats. Also, montero just flat our rakes, I think if he played everyday last year, he could’ve hit .270/360 with 25 homeruns.

  10. Why does it have to be a “win the deal” scenario, I see this as pretty beneficial to both parties.

    • It seems like a “win” for both teams.  

    • BDLugz 3 years ago

      I do agree it benefits both – but I also think the M’s could have gotten more.  However, there may not have been a single better bat available, and they may have preferred quality over quantity, regardless of position played.

  11. PennMariner 3 years ago

    Throwing Campos into the pot kind of irked me, but there’s really no reason for anyone to get hung up about this trade. It fits a need for both parties – and both fits come with ridiculous upside. Take care of Michael, Yankees. On another note, in case you’ve already forgotten: Felix is ours and you can’t have him.

    • Until free agency.

      • melonis_rex 3 years ago

        The Mariners are a higher payroll team. They’re perennially very close to or above 100MM. 

        If Felix is willing to stay in Seattle and it makes sense, I’m sure the M’s can top whatever deal any other team can offer monetarily .

  12. PennMariner 3 years ago

    Edit: Damn you, Disqus!

  13. Guest 3 years ago

    While everyone is sitting here lamenting over the loss of Montero, keep in mind that Mason Williams shot up the list of prospects, he’ll likely be #1 in their whole organization this season. He plays a position of need for the Yankees. Another potential 5 tool player, albeit less power. Really wanted to see Montero, but from the practical business side of it, it just wasn’t going to happen on the Yanks. Some of us always knew this. Romine is far better defensive catcher and he’ll be backing up Martin this season. Sanchez another phenomenal prospect is maybe 2 years away. Good trade for both teams and as I said earlier the best part about getting Campos is to wash away that bad aftertaste of losing Viscaino in the Vasquez deal 2 years ago. I see it as an equal replacement. 

    • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

      a good way to soothe whatever pains people have over losing montero is to remember that he was nearly traded for half a season of cliff lee. instead they now get 5 years of pineda

      • Guest 3 years ago

        Exactly. 3 months vs 5 years plus with other teams being starved for  young pitching, it makes players like Betances and even Banuelos expendable for other impact players. I’m very satisfied. I would not have felt the same way if this was a deal with Garza or Gonzalez. Both good pitchers in their own right, but when you consider the asking price, anything more than just Montero would have been a huge overpay. In Pineda we got the younger, cheaper option. I see Pineda latching on to Cano in the club house. This could be good. 

  14. Guest 3 years ago

    While everyone is sitting here lamenting over the loss of Montero, keep in mind that Mason Williams shot up the list of prospects, he’ll likely be #1 in their whole organization this season. He plays a position of need for the Yankees. Another potential 5 tool player, albeit less power. Really wanted to see Montero, but from the practical business side of it, it just wasn’t going to happen on the Yanks. Some of us always knew this. Romine is far better defensive catcher and he’ll be backing up Martin this season. Sanchez another phenomenal prospect is maybe 2 years away. Good trade for both teams and as I said earlier the best part about getting Campos is to wash away that bad aftertaste of losing Viscaino in the Vasquez deal 2 years ago. I see it as an equal replacement. 

  15. i’m curious as to what exactly that non M’s baseball guy is smoking

  16. Thank God the yankees didn’t get Felix. That would have been really bad news for the Jays (and rest of AL east).

    • MB923 3 years ago

      That’s true, but it also would have taken an even bigger hit on the Yankees farm system. 

  17. Gotta giggle at the “non-M’s baseball guy” who believes Noesi is a better long-term option for the Mariners than Pineda.  Assuming it’s a strict head-to-head comparison that is.  It’s a really short quote.

    *And Twitter confirms that it is.

    • I think they meant to say “non-baseball guy”. It was just random guy they interviewed on the street.

    • alxn 3 years ago

      Salk tends to talk out of his behind. The fact that he would even think that “tidbit” was worth mentioning says it all. It reflects poorly on him to give any credibility to someone who would think that.

  18. jwsox 3 years ago

    this might be one of those trades that is a win for both teams. The M’s clearly traded from an area of strength in terms of young pitching. As stated by their future pitchers coming up and probably coming up very soon now. The yankees traded away a guy who was looking like a DH for them. Catcher is clearly held down by Martin and 1st is obviously locked up with Tex. Essentially they traded a DH for a top of the rotation pitcher. The real question is how do both of these guys translate to their new teams. Montero obviously will see number drop while hitting at home but his away numbers should be just fine. At worst he is a good hitter (better if he sticks at catcher) where as pineda is leaving the park that made him a great trade chip. His road ERA is 4.4 his ERA rose as the year went on(to be expected for a young pitcher)
    there is a ton of risk from both teams, what if Montero truly is just yankees hype and busts and Pineda turns into a true ACE…what if Pineda was a one hit wonder, a good pitcher on a bad team in a pitcher park without true pressure and if Montero turns into a year in year out 30-40 HR .280+avg  .350+OBP 800-900+OPS CATCHER?!?!  no one knows…

    i truly think this is a fair even trade…now if its true that the yankees offered Montero the B-boys plus more prospects for Felix I think they probably should have done that who knows.

  19. Justin Bobko 3 years ago

    garza is not better than pineda. he had a 1.10 ERA this year, garza can only dream about that, and this was pineda’s rookie season. in fact, i would say garza is superior to gio and lato

    • H E I N Z 3 years ago

      Pineda has to prove this by being good in the East. Garza proved that. 

    • InLeylandWeTrust 3 years ago

      Garza:  SIERA: 3.31  FIP: 2.95  xFIP: 3.19  WAR: 5

      Pineda: SIERA: 3.36  FIP: 3.42  xFIP: 3.53  WAR 4.1 

      Garza had the better season

  20. Justin Bobko 3 years ago

    1.10 WHIP*

  21. Just because one side won doesn’t mean the other side had to lose. I don’t know about Montero=Piazza, but there was a lot of value going both ways in this deal. Those other names in the deal are by no means just throw ins, either…

  22. nats2012 3 years ago

    The Mariners should have done the King Felix trade for the 3 prospects, that made more sense.

    • Says the Nats fan who’s team just traded prospects for a guy who’s twin is available as a FA

      • Guest 3 years ago

        im a nats fan and we got double screwed on that one….i know peacock and milone will be awesome and a.j. cole should be a good one and they got a power hitting catcher as a throw in….

    • $3513744 3 years ago

      Thank god you don’t run the team.

    • nats2012 3 years ago

      You guys arent going to win in that division with the 2 teams ahead of who, Pineda is cost controlled for 5 years, and what happens if Felix leaves for more money in free agency. This way you guys would have had Pineda, Hultzen and the 2 young prospects for the future plus Montero.

      • They’ll try to resign Felix the year before his deal is up.  If he doesn’t extend, they’ll trade him.  How hard is that?

        • nats2012 3 years ago

          Yeah but when its that close to free agency you will never get back the type of package you can get now. I like the Mariners, Im not saying it to rub it in, I just like the young rotation you guys were building and Pineda was the last guy I thought you guys would ever move. I saw him pitch against us.

          • Pineda is likely not as good as his rookie year suggested.  Heck, he struggled to some degree in the second half once teams adjusted.

          • nats2012 3 years ago

            Good point. I guess Im just going off the game I saw him pitch in Washington, he looked incredible.

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            I watched every one of his games, and I’m not completely sold.  He has a ways to go still, so the fact that they got a highly rated hitter in return was a pretty good deal.

          • tomymogo 3 years ago

            Fatigue for christ sake….. 98 mph, devastating breaking ball, changeup, impressive physical specimen and good control…. Tim Lincecum first year in mlb, 24 starts 4.00 ERA 146.1 IP 150 SO. Just because 22 year old Michael Pineda wasn’t a CY Young in his rookie year then all of the sudden he doesn’t deserve the hype. Come on, he has all the tools, could be better than Felix.

          • He only has 2 MLB quality pitches

          • slider32 3 years ago

            All pitchers struggle at times, this kid has great stuff.

          • He only has 2 MLB quality pitches

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            I see what you’re saying, and you’re right that they won’t get the same type of package as they would now.  The only problem with that is right now, no team is dumb enough to include a package that’s big enough to get Felix.  

          • Guest 3 years ago

            dude, why would the m’s give felix up when the guy likes the city they play in, he’s is being paid well now and i can see him maybe giving the m’s a discount….they got montero for a pitcher with some upside……they needed a big bat and for it they gave up pineda…..seattle’s pitching prospects are kind of like ours before beane got away with robbery

      • $3513744 3 years ago

        I don’t know who “you guys” are, but I assume you mean the M’s.  Regardless of when they will or will not win, the fact stands that you would rather not do a win-win trade like the one that was done, and would rather give Felix at essentially the height of his value for three prospects just says enough.

        Hate to break the news to you, but a Cy Young winner as young as Felix is, as good as he is, as cheap as he is doesn’t grow on trees. It’s going to take more than that to get him.

        • nats2012 3 years ago

          Agreed, the article says the three prospects and more, I guess we would have to see what the more is. And Im not saying you guys should have traded Felix, Im just saying you should have kept Pineda.

          • $3513744 3 years ago

            I don’t think so either. I honestly think they’re selling high trading Pindeda at this point.  What gets me most is that the article says those three prospects and more, when realistically at this point a trade for Felix would include a package where those three prospects should be the “and more” part.

  23. Mikeschoolerforever 3 years ago

    Don’t know how I feel about this trade? I really liked Michael but Jesus does bring offense and takes us basically out of the Prince race….on paper. I think if Boras isn’t able to use the Mariners as leverage against other teams, since Prince really doesn’t want to come here, it’s a good thing for the rest in his bidding. Since Kirudo signed with the Yanks then that means another one of his agents just lost another destination for his bidding.(E-Jax)

    • My thoughts too—I think that Edwin Jackson may have to take an incentive-laden 2 year deal now. But then again, I wonder if the Red Sox might come back to him to keep him away from Baltimore.

      This could also bode badly for A.J. Burnett, depending on if the Yankees would be willing to eat his salary.

    • PennMariner 3 years ago

      It’s pretty clear that the M’s are out of the running for Prince. If not, then…wow!

      • This is why Dave Cameron’s point about Oswalt or Ejax makes no sense to me.

        This move says, we’re looking at 2013/2014.  Why sign a big money pitcher now?

        • $3513744 3 years ago

          If memory serves me right, I think his proposal had many “ifs”, which included not using money to get Prince and trying to replace Pineda’s production, which in turn essentially puts them in the same place pitching wise, and better offensively without spending “Prince” type money.

          • Got it.  I didn’t read Cameron’s piece so I was just looking at the headline like whaaaat?

        • $18224393 3 years ago

          The idea would be to sign Oswalt for 1/8 and flip him at the trade deadline for more hitting. 

  24. levendis 3 years ago

    People who think the Yankees got a bad deal are crazy. I’m seeing people complain that hes just a 2-pitch pitcher. Uhhh, hes 22 right? Well assuming hes 22, the kid has plenty of time to polish up his secondary pitches. A guy named CC Sabathia was a 2 pitch pitcher his whole time in Clevleand, didnt pick up a changeup until recently. Stuff alone is going to get Pinieda by for the meantime. I here projections of 2-3 starter. The kid has the stuff to be a #1. I love Montero, hes an absolute monster of a hitter and im going to hate to see him go. But this deal is great for both teams, Pinieda is young and under team control for years, theres nothing not to like about this deal. Noesi is a nice pitcher but we have a few Noesi type pitchers (warren for ex) waiting in AAA. Campos has a higher upside, so all in all a great deal for both teams. Ive always loved Montero, and wish him success in the Ms, is he the future Miggy? idk, time will tell, but all I know the kid can hit, congrats Ms fans

    • He doesn’t have secondary pitches to polish.  That’s the problem.

      He throws 3 pitches, FB, SL, CH.  The changeup is a show-me pitch and nothing more.

      • levendis 3 years ago

        but hes 22. He can and most likely will improve his changeup. At least he has two nasty pitches, he can work on the secondary stuff, its not a big deal. and he has pretty darn good control of his pitches, 55 walks for a hard throwing rookie is amazing, which makes me believe he can be succesful.

  25. roberty 3 years ago

    Yankees fans really overrate their own prospects.  It’s not like the Mariners turned down Matt Moore and Julio Teheran for Felix.  If all goes well, Betances and Banuelos project to be solid middle of the rotation starters, not aces. Neither are as good as Walker/Hultzen/Paxton.

    • MB923 3 years ago

      None of the M’s pitchers have pitched higher than AA ball, both Betances and Banuelos, while not ace like in AAA of course, had just as good stats in A and AA themselves. Too early to judge the M’s pitchers on whether they are better, but certainly great potential.

      Funny hearing Braves fans accusing Yankees of overrating their prospects. Do I have to tell you how many times I hear things like “Teheran and Vizcaino and Simmons are untoucable” during those Prado and Jurrjens rumors (not referring to the ones with Adam Jones though)

  26. Steve_in_MA 3 years ago

    What ridiculous hyperbole from Cashman: “To me, Montero is Mike Piazza. He’s Miguel Cabrera.”  Piazza is a first-ballot HOF’er, and Cabrera is a perennial MVP/Triple crown candidate.  Jesus Montero can’t catch and has had exactly one (1) quality month of hitting performance in the MLB.  Otherwise, his AAA hitting has been mediocre to merely good. The Mariners will be sorry, having given up a proven quality pitcher for a dubiously overrated prospect.

    • tomymogo 3 years ago

      First ballot……PED? Suspicion just like Bagwell, and Piazza wasn’t exactly regarded as a good defensive catcher. Comparing him to Miguel Cabrera is out of line….. Talk about over vauling players

    • jjs91 3 years ago

      Piazza and miggy cant catch either, good one about his aaa numbers being medicore.

  27. Taskmaster75 3 years ago

    In my approximation, the Mariners were thinking that with Jesus on their side, anything is possible.

  28. Coollet 3 years ago

    The Jays’ mountain they’re climbing just got a lot taller

  29. JackPackage 3 years ago

    I’d try Jesus at 1B, LF and then failing that he’s a full time DH. The Mariners shouldn’t put him anywhere near C, for one… he isn’t a catcher… at all… and two, if he spends an entire season there, there is a greater chance he picks up some sort of injury. I just don’t understand why they’d even bother trying…

    Seattle still needs more offense, seems like the perfect time to put in a cheeky bid for Fielder, try and get him for 5/100. Hell, make Boras happy and offer 3/36 for E-Jax as well.

  30. Yanks made a good move. Pineda is a young stud and it is hard to find pitchers at 6′ 7” and 260lbs. CC is 6’7” and 290’lbs. Pineda fits the mold. Now for Felix it would have probably cost Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Gardner and Noesi, Phelps or Warren. It was too much for the Yanks. Plus, Russell Martin is at catcher and Gary Sanchez has more potential than Montero and is much better defensively. Sanchez is their future catcher and Montero never was. That’s why he was made available.

  31. The Yankees made a excellent decision in giving up montero and Noesi and now, since they gave up montero there sure fire dh this season they will probably get a prince fielder of Carlos Pena both boras clients and one of boras’ other clients Edwin jaxon can possibly make the squad bc if they get one of the hitters they will get the pitcher as well

  32. CitizenSnips 3 years ago


    Also from Salk (on Twitter), he hears from “a non-M’s baseball guy” who believes Noesi is a better long-term option than Pineda.”

    This is the best quote, considering Noesi is a dime a dozen pitcher.

  33. Tony DiQuattro 3 years ago

    On Montero, wouldn’t a catcher with Carlos Lee type production be a superstar?

    • Its just like Deerk Jeter over the last 7-10 years, if any other shortstop bats .300 with 12 HR and steals 15 bases, there average….but when your a Yankee your an elite shortstop.

      • MB923 3 years ago

        Jeter is 2nd in WAR among SS’s the last 7 years. #justsaying

      • MB923 3 years ago

        Jeter is 2nd in WAR among SS’s the last 7 years. #justsaying

  34. $3513744 3 years ago

    Because they weren’t willing to give up Felix?

  35. I don’t understand this logic, care to explain?  Betances and Banuelos aren’t worth Felix.

  36. I’m pretty sure that Seattle took a win in this deal. Yanks kinda lost on their side.

  37. johnsmith4 3 years ago

    Yep….which suggests Seattle is in danger of having to cough up Felix in the not to distant future.

  38. Guest 3 years ago

    I don’t think seattle really lost…….the yanks and seattle got exactly what they needed……..also to keep in mind if they got felix, he had 3 at 60 left on the contract……..i thought the yanks were trying to stay under the luxary tax threshold……….im sure pineda is cheaper and under team control longer too 

  39. MetsEventually 3 years ago

    It’s a win win. Seattle is more than desperate for some offensive help and felt this was something they needed to do. Good move on both parts. 

  40. BDLugz 3 years ago

    Are you kidding me?

  41. Do you still count brackman in your namesake?

    Cuz that’s awkward…

  42. You might want to read again.  If the Mariners could get Montero for Pineda, the Felix offer would essentially be Banuelos and Betances along with the right to keep Pineda.  That is not enough.

  43. That’s the point.  Pitchers that have literally no control are a lot more risky than control guys

  44. No.  Care to add anything tangible to the discussion?

  45. He’s signed for three years.  They don’t have to win this season.  There is no reason to rule them out as contenders in 2013-2014…and if they aren’t, the Mariners can still flip Felix for a similar return.  What is the incentive exactly?

  46. $3513744 3 years ago

    It doesn’t mean they give him up for a package less than what he should go for.  I personally would have loved to see him go to the Yankees, because it would have been an absolute murder of a package to get back for him. But it didn’t happen because both GM’s are smart enough to know a trade like that can’t be win-win at this point.

  47. PennMariner 3 years ago

    Such an idiotic comment. The package that the Yankees were offering us isn’t 1/2 of what Felix would demand, and it’s nearly all pitchers who are probably going to end up in the bullpen. We have starting pitching prospects with far higher floors than Betances and Banuelos.

  48. BDLugz 3 years ago

    Sure… Felix is worth a hell of a lot more than two B prospects that may be destined for the bullpen.

  49. Banuelos is a very good prospect, I think Betances is a bit overrated.  But yeah, Felix should get a better return. I don’t understand why you’re arguing with me unless you are being sarcastic.

  50. um ok…

  51. $3513744 3 years ago

    I really don’t see it that way.  They both addressed needs by giving up what they had in surplus, and both are taking heavy risks.

  52. johnsilver 3 years ago

    I wouldn’t say that. Seattle got a DH and NY got a #2-3 pitcher.

    How is that a win for Seattle when SP is a premium over offensive only players who are probably not going to be able to play in the field unless they do so as a severe liability at a critical position?

  53. It was a good deal for both teams the Yanks gave up yes Jesus Montero vut they did cquire a young durable startiing pitcher to back Nova.

  54. Being a fan is good, but don’t lose all objectivity of baseball evaluations..and if you can’t help it, at least don’t be shocked when other people think your prospects aren’t a small dunk for King Felix.

  55. Here is an example of when being a delusional fan boy goes wrong.  Look at the Mariners system and their needs.  Do you think those two prospects are the best fits for Felix?  Really?  Seriously?

  56. $3513744 3 years ago

    I was with you until the Smoak part.  He’s still young and can still turn it around, and they’re looking for more guys that are closer to major league ready.  So trading him to get even younger doesn’t make sense.

  57. BDLugz 3 years ago

    Woah, just reread your post – thought you said Felix wasn’t worth Betances and Banuelos… sooooo, yep.  Foot in mouth.

  58. $3513744 3 years ago

    Exactly.  Seriously guy, you can’t expect these deals to be perfect for both sides.

  59. $3513744 3 years ago

    I was going to say you guys were arguing about the same thing.

  60. I think it’s a little early to give up on Smoak given the tough past 18 months he’s had.

  61. $3513744 3 years ago

    It was also his first season.  Not every player breaks out their first year.

  62. melonis_rex 3 years ago

    Too early to tell on Smoak.

    LF and DH exist and are wide open for one of Montero/Smoak/Carp to take. 

    Trading for Montero, arguably the best non-Harper hitting prospect in baseball, says nothing about Smoak’s future.

  63. flickadave 3 years ago

    Unless Felix blows up his arm pitching in meaningless games in the next 2 years. Then the M’s get to go thru even more rebuilding without the haul Felix could get them.

    I would love to see what the Mariners would look like in 3 years if they now traded Felix for the best haul they could get.

  64. tomymogo 3 years ago

    King Felix is a tremendous pitcher, he still very young, very durable. Yeah he has 3 years 61.5 million left on his contract that’s on average more than 20 million per year. Pineda could be like Felix in a year, and if he will earn about 7 million combined in the next 3 years that will be a little over 2 million per year and still have 2 years of team control after that.

    Essentially the Mariners could have acquired Jesus Montero, Manny Banuelos, Dellin Betances + 2 others, and now have the necesarry funds to sign Prince Fielder and Roy Oswalt or Edwin Jackson

  65. MB923 3 years ago

    I agree about the package of Banuelos and Betances not really meeting the M’s needs, but I don’t think you can disagree with me when I”m saying that having 4 of those 5 players is better then having only 2 of the 5

    What the M’s have
    Montero, Felix

    What the M’s could have had
    Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Pineda

  66. Um…. no.  

  67. That they weren’t willing to deal him for Montero, Banuelos and Betances +, if anything, is an indication that they intend to keep him.

  68. mwagner26 3 years ago

    Gotta chime in here, even though this post will never be seen.  Felix has stated time and time and time and time again that he LOVES the city of Seattle and wants to play there for his career. 

    We’ll no doubt work out an extension with him. 

  69. The M’s value control over stuff.  That’s why they drafted Hultzen and traded Pineda and not Felix.  Odds are they don’t value Betances and Banuelos (and his 5 BB/9) as highly as you do.

  70. $3513744 3 years ago

    The only problem is that the M’s have more than just Felix and Montero.  On no planet that exists will Felix be traded for those guys right now. It not would take those three, but a heck of a lot more on top. If you would rather have those guys over Felix, then the great news is that you do, so no worries.

  71. FrankTheFunkasaurusRex 3 years ago

    Why would they want both Banuelos and Betances? Mariners already have Walker and Hultzen who look to be better than both Banuelos and Betances, and Paxton who would probably be better than Betances. A more likely package should be Montero, Banuelos, Sanchez, Romine, + whatever

  72. MB923 3 years ago

    I know they have more than that, I’m saying they could have got a better value in that Felix deal than they did in this deal.

    This deal is an even swap. A Felix deal would have killled the Yankees farm system (which is in the top 7 I believe) by a mile.

  73. $3513744 3 years ago

    Yes, a true Felix deal should have absolutely killed their farm system.  But I don’t see any proposal like that.  I only saw the one that included those three players and it’s just laughable to think that trade would work.

  74. captainjeter 3 years ago

    top 5

  75. MB923 3 years ago

    Well it did say And More, so it wasn’t just those 3.

  76. $3513744 3 years ago

    I know, but a deal with just those three at the center still doesn’t seem like enough.Point is, we agree it would have to be a killer deal.

  77. FrankTheFunkasaurusRex 3 years ago

    agreed. I don’t like how people mark him down to be a DH for sure. I’d bet he could at least handle 1B

  78. FrankTheFunkasaurusRex 3 years ago

    just like how Boston won the division for 2011 before the season even started

  79. FrankTheFunkasaurusRex 3 years ago

    who knows, maybe he’ll actually stick there. Would be highly unlikely, but no harm in trying (unless he gets Posey-ed (Cousin-ed?) or something)

  80. FrankTheFunkasaurusRex 3 years ago

    Jackson was actually worth more than Pineda in 2011. Oswalt wasn’t, but it’s not like he was laughably worse you dolt

  81. jjs91 3 years ago

    Piazza a pretty good catcher? Cabberra not a bad first baseman what are you talking about?

  82. MB923 3 years ago

    lol I’m not the one who made the proposal so not sure why you’re asking me. And if you read the last two words, it says “and more”. So chances are some of those more players are indeed hitters and could possibly include Sanchez or Romine.

    Banuelos is ranked 14th overall. None of the others are even in the Top 40. He is better than both Walker and Hultzen but I will say they are better than Betances.

  83. MB923 3 years ago

    They also won the WS

  84. jjs91 3 years ago

    Odds are most scouts dont think banuelas is wild after one season, when he wasnt een remotly wild at the lower levels. Odds are most value banuelas pretty highly and that is why he is rates so.

  85. flickadave 3 years ago

    Very well put.

  86. raffish 3 years ago

    Felix has five plus pitches.  Pineda has one.  Pineda has to further develop his slider, and totally master his change, and even then he wouldn’t be “like Felix”.

  87. MB923 3 years ago

    People compare many bright star prospects to current all stars and hall of famers. Not just Montero. Don’t single out the Yankees and their fans for doing that.

  88. RedEyedDream 3 years ago

    He did have a lot of power, but the Yankees do not need more power. That’s like emptying a bucket of water into the ocean. They NEEDED pitching, and that’s what they got. 

    I think pitchers tend to mature quicker than (at least) catchers. The Yankees do not need a young DH with ARod, Jeter, and Jones is on the team (plus Nick Swisher possibly). 

  89. nm344 3 years ago

    who cares about wins? He’s a good pitcher, just needs to stay healthy.

  90. nm344 3 years ago

    Montero is no joke, the trade is much closer than you think.

  91. tomymogo 3 years ago

    Slider is already a plus pitch. Needs to improve his changeup. Pineda is a different kind of pitcher than Felix. For starters he throws a 98 mph fastball, Felix tops out at 95, and both have a great slider. Felix has a splitter and a changeup.

    Pineda might not be as great as Felix, but he will be really damn good, and considering the price they would have been better off trading Felix and keeping Pineda.

  92. Nicholas Stuart 3 years ago

    Two good seasons? He’s had 5 good seasons and three great seasons.  He’s 25.  How many good seasons is a pitcher supposed to have at this point?  Lincecum came up older and more developed.  Apples to oranges.  When Lincecum was 19 he was hardly a prospect, Felix at 19 had a 2.67 era in 84 innings.

  93. Nicholas Stuart 3 years ago

    Also, look at Lincecum’s MLB stats up to the age of 25, he had one good season at that point.

  94. Nicholas Stuart 3 years ago

    Safeco field is dead middle of MLB for neutrality.  Look up the park factors.  The notion that its an extreme pitchers park comes from a decade of good pitchers and weak hitters filling Mariner box scores.  Those who say its a pitchers park are the same people who think Seattle gets more annual precipitation than New York and Boston and read too much Peter Gammons.

  95. mwagner26 3 years ago

    Seriously dude, what the hell are you smoking?  Overhyped?  I guess all of baseball must really be wrong in saying he’s a future #1.

  96. raffish 3 years ago

    If you ever watch Pineda pitch, which I’m sure you do, he doesn’t sit at 98.  At times he sits 92.  He can get it up around 100, but that’s the rear-back, heave-ho effort.

    His slider may be plus according to some, but it’s not going to give anyone visions of Jeff Nelson.  It’s a nice pitch that could stand to further improve consistency.  

    “Really damn good” is a best case scenario for Pineda in a year or two.  Felix is “best in the game good” right now, and he can get better.  Pineda has much to work on to become an ace– a well-placed heater and a slider won’t get you there alone.  Calling him anything other than a dominant at times, high-upside work in progress is being overly complimentary.  He is not a #2 at present.

    Now is Felix 20 million/year better than Pineda on a War/$ basis?  Maybe not.  But he’s worth the extra money.  He’s the surefire guy.  He’s the two times in a five-game series bulldog. He’s the ticket to a championship.

    We can afford to pay Felix the lettuce he deserves, so why not keep him.  

    We can always resign him or trade him in a year and a half and clean up prospect-wise then.

  97. ha yeah ok

  98. Radiosurgery 3 years ago

    No, seriously, he is untouchable.

  99. Radiosurgery 3 years ago

    This is patently false. What park factors are you looking at? Safeco suppresses scoring. That being said, Pineda’s splits are not drastic at all and he will in all likely hood a solid starting pitcher. To say Safeco is neutral is just straight up wrong. 

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