Analysis And Background Of The Montero/Pineda Deal

It's not every day that two of baseball's best young stars are swapped for each other, but the Mariners and Yankees pulled off just such a deal today, as Jesus Montero and Hector Noesi went to Seattle in exchange for Michael Pineda and Jose Campos.  Here is some of the early reaction to this stunning trade, plus some information on how the deal came together…

  • "The risk for both clubs is low. The reward for both clubs is outstanding. This could be a transformational deal that will have fans of both clubs buzzing about for a long time," writes MLB.com's Bernie Pleskoff.
  • Replacing pitching via minor leaguers or the free agent market is far easier than attracting top-caliber hitters in Seattle, notes MLB.com's Greg Johns.
  • Mike Salk of ESPN 710 Radio in Seattle outlines the reasons why he "loves" the deal for the Mariners.  Also from Salk (on Twitter), he hears from "a non-M's baseball guy" who believes Noesi is a better long-term option than Pineda.
  • The trade makes the Yankees the favorites in the AL East, writes Scott Miller of CBSSports.com.  Miller talks to two scouts who rave about the Yankees' sudden surplus of young pitching that also includes Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos.
  • Dave Cameron of the U.S.S. Mariner blog sees Montero as developing into a Carlos Lee-type of hitter who is productive but not quite a superstar.  Cameron thinks the deal will look better for the Mariners if they were to sign a free agent starter like Roy Oswalt or Edwin Jackson, since then the team would have Montero's bat plus a pitcher that could match Pineda's production.
  • Yankees GM Brian Cashman feels he took a "huge risk" with the trade, reports The Record's Bob Klapisch (via Twitter).  "I gave up a ton (for Pineda)," Cashman said.  "To me, Montero is Mike Piazza. He's Miguel Cabrera."
  • "Some execs from other AL East teams believe Yankees just made an incredible trade," tweets ESPN's Buster Olney.
  • The two teams were "talking for weeks" about the deal, reports Joel Sherman of the New York Post (Twitter link).  Each side told the other that they had limited funds to address their needs.
  • The Yankees initially tried to acquire Felix Hernandez from the Mariners, reports Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter) and were willing to offer a package that included Montero, Betances, Banuelos and more.


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285 Comments on "Analysis And Background Of The Montero/Pineda Deal"


Mcgrupp81
3 years 7 months ago

Last note about what the Yanks were going to give up for Felix is interesting.

Infield Fly
3 years 7 months ago

Yeah. Still, I’m glad King Félix is staying put. : )

3 years 7 months ago

I hope the mariners’ sound guy appreciates good humor and plays “Jesus Walks” every time he gets a free pass this year.

dylanp5030
3 years 7 months ago

“…were willing to offer a package that included Montero, Betances, Banuelos and more.”

Wow, I understand that Felix is very important to that franchise. But they could have had a rotation containing Betances, Banuelos, Pineda, Walker, Paxton and Hultzen for years to come. Couple that with Smoak, Montero, Ackley, Franklin, and Liddi, they’d have a solid young team to build around.

3 years 7 months ago

The Yankees wouldn’t do that. Heyman just wants something to write about.

Nicholas Stuart
3 years 7 months ago

This is probably the best point in the this thread.  Its easy to sensationalize about trades that didn’t happen.  “I heard they were going to give up…blah blah blah.”  A trade that never happened is just useless information when you don’t really no the terms of the non-existent deal.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

Or a bullpen of Betances and Banuelos… too risky to give up Felix for.

3 years 7 months ago

No, not too risky at all. Montero, Banuelos, Betances, and more is the best they would come by. No other team would offer that deal, and the Yankees wouldn’t either. It’s Jon Heyman.

3 years 7 months ago

You are delusional, the Mariners wouldn’t do that deal. They would essentially be dealing Felix for Betances and Banuelos, and the right to keep Pineda. No chance.

3 years 7 months ago

How is it just the right to keep Pineda. That literally makes no sense. In addition to the other pieces, you keep Pineda and receive Montero. You aren’t just keeping him. You are receiving a blue chipper, while maintaining a stud sp with two excellent sp prospects.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

That still doesn’t change the fact that it’s nowhere near big enough of a pack for Felix.

RipeOn
3 years 7 months ago

Seriously?  You are a crazy person, Brian.

Scenario A: Mariners lose Felix, receive Montero, Betances, and Banuelos.

Scenario B: Mariners lose Pineda and receive Montero.

How in the world are they not “essentially” receiving Montero in exchange for Hernandez if he’s included in a deal for him wherein they keep Pineda? Complete insanity.

3 years 7 months ago

Seattle would also get the 20+ million owed to Felix each of the next three years and then two more years of team control of Pineda after that.  They could have taken that money this year and sign Prince Fielder or wait until next year and basically get any player you want.  So to be more accurate, a proper comparison would be Felix for Betances and Banuelos and the right to keep Pineda and Prince Fielder. 

3 years 7 months ago

Seattle would also get the 20+ million owed to Felix each of the next three years and then two more years of team control of Pineda after that.  They could have taken that money this year and sign Prince Fielder or wait until next year and basically get any player you want.  So to be more accurate, a proper comparison would be Felix for Betances and Banuelos and the right to keep Pineda and Prince Fielder. 

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

You’re so wrong…

PennMariner
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t think you understand the concept that Felix is essentially untouchable. 

melonis_rex
3 years 7 months ago

They could and should get more, especially if they concentrated on elite prospects further away from the majors (which they absolutely should do if they decide to trade Felix). 

Felix is the only  pitcher of his kind in the game. 

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Those three would be a good start for a package for Felix.  It’s whoever else they would include in the deal that would make it work, and quite frankly it’d be stupid for the Yankees to trade for the deal that would land him because it would have to be massive.

BeansNRice
3 years 7 months ago

Yankees got schooled.

dylanp5030
3 years 7 months ago

huh?

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 7 months ago

They clearly overpaid for a pitcher who will, in high probability, get annihilated in the AL East. Flyball pitchers + AL East + Rogers Center, Fenway, Yankee Stadium and Camden = certain doom.

Just look at Brandon Morrow.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

good lineups pounded him last year and i don’t think that’s going to change until he becomes more than a two-pitch pitcher. they’re great pitches, but good lineups did and will continue to just sit on his fastball

but we can’t talk about him the way we talk about gio or even latos. he isn’t a finished product by any means, as most prospects of his caliber are doing great if they put up
his 2011 numbers in AAA

the best way to view this trade is prospect-for-prospect. NYY should not be expecting him to be a #2 in 2011, but that is a reachable ceiling over the next 5 years if he can develop his changeup

3 years 7 months ago

Name a 2 pitch pitcher (besides Randy Johnson, who was left-hnded) that has been successful as a SP for a whole career.  I can’t.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

curt schilling maybe, and that’s because the splitter doesn’t tend to have much of a lefty-righty split. the slider has a huge one

3 years 7 months ago

Borderline haha.  My problem with Teheran and Pineda is they throw 3 pitches, only 2 of which are above league average.

Unless they develop legitimate changeups I’m just not sure I can trust them.  You know?

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

yup. then again, if either of those two had legitimate change-ups, they wouldn’t be prospects – they’d be stars

i do think that’s the best view of this though: prospect-for-prospect rather than prospect-for-#2 pitcher

3 years 7 months ago

Absolutely.  The Pineda fervor lat year reminded me of Angel Berroa.  Huge numbers early, but they turned out to be false promise.  I don’t know.

Ps – you’re absolutely right about them being stars with changes.  Unfortunately, power pitchers tend to struggle to do that

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

It’s not unheard of you know?  But you’re right they are risking the odds.  

MaineSox
3 years 7 months ago

Schilling also actually had a whole bevy of pitches, he just didn’t throw most of them very often.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

that is exactly how you’d describe ogando’s changeup though

he “has” it in that he can throw it. but he doesn’t throw it often. it’s a show-me pitch, not a weapon

MaineSox
3 years 7 months ago

Right, but with Schilling he actually had like 6 pitches and all those ‘other’ pitches that he didn’t throw much actually added up to about 20% of his pitches.

(In his time with the Sox he threw a fastball, change-up, slider, cutter, splitter, and curve)

I’d agree that his success was based on his fastball-splitter combo, but one out of every five pitches he threw was something other than the fastball or splitter.

3 years 7 months ago

What about Steve Carlton? He had a killer slider, his biggest out pitch. I am pretty certain he had other pitchers, still his slider was his best to along with a keen fastball. That and the fact he kept himself in shape for a long time. I will go with Carlton to challenge you.

3 years 7 months ago

Could Carlton at least throw other pitches?  I mean these guys have 2 legitimate pitches.  That’s it.

RedEyedDream
3 years 7 months ago

I expect him to mature quicker than Montero. Look at Nova, he went from a prospect in 09 to a playoff starter in 11. Pineda has already proven he can stay in the rotation, he’s going to have a ton more run support now than with the M’s, it’ll help him a lot. 

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Brandon Morrow wasn’t exactly lighting it up in Seattle either.  On the M’s side, they’re also picking up a right handed hitter to play at Safeco.  It’s a risk both ways.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

I agree, their is no proof to the theory of moving to a new league makes you worse. Check out pitchers like Jackson who bounce around, their pitching performance is random. I would be more concerned with a pitchers durability. It’s hard to name 10 pitchers that have had 5 good years in a row in any division. Remember the Yanks have a potent line up that scores alot more runs than Seattle.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Well exactly, which is why it’s a good deal for both sides.  I think both sides are well aware of the risks for both players, but it at least addresses each of their needs if they pan out.

3 years 7 months ago

I mean, Jered Weaver has a worse ground ball rate and is an excellent pitcher.  I have concerns about Pineda, he might have a Javy Vasquez type implosion in NY, but this isn’t really an overpay.  Montero is a great talent, but the fact is he doesn’t really fit in with that roster over the next six years and A-Rod & Tex aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

3 of the 4 parks weaver plays in are very pitcher friendly

4 of the 5 parks pineda will pitch in are very hitter friendly

3 years 7 months ago

Oh I agree, it will be tough, just trying to play devil’s advocate.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Yes, but now he traded places with Montero, so Montero has to play in those parks.  It’s a fairly even trade in terms of risk.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

true, but it doesn’t really make sense to compare it that way. they didn’t give up montero’s would-be seattle production; they gave up up his would-be NYY production

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Yes, and like wise for the M’s. It’s risky for both sides.

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 7 months ago

They clearly overpaid for a pitcher who will, in high probability, get annihilated in the AL East. Flyball pitchers + AL East + Rogers Center, Fenway, Yankee Stadium and Camden = certain doom.

Just look at Brandon Morrow.

3 years 7 months ago

If Montero is “Cabrera or Piazza,” why did you trade him for a flyball pitcher? I understand Pineda is a good pitcher, but I wouldn’t have given up Montero for him.

East Coast Bias
3 years 7 months ago

because he wasn’t going to stick at catcher, and Yanks have other catchers coming up in the system. None as good offensively, obviously. 

Also, being a full time DH just won’t work on this team with aging superstars who will need days off or DH days down the stretch every year. 

3 years 7 months ago

I understand that point. But for Pineda? Very good young pitcher, but they could have gotten more. They could have had Gonzalez or Garza if they wanted.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

That’s assuming you think Gonzalez or Garza is better than Pineda.  Seems many disagree with that. Point was they’re not going to get a caliber pitcher for nothing, and Montero was a big chip for them since he’s just a full time DH anyhow.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

Garza is immensely better than Pineda… whether it’s worth the 3 years of control you’re losing is another story.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

You’re not the only one who believes this, but it’s also not the only opinion out there.  Pineda isn’t better at this point in time, but he’s still got the potential to become a lot better.  They’re taking a risk obviously, but there’s no chance they’d make a deal like this for Garza.  He might be a better player at this point in time, but he has nowhere near the value Pineda has.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

Totally my point – I have no idea where Pineda will be in 3 years.  I’d rather have Pineda than Garza at this point given their status, but to say Pineda is better now… I can’t agree with.

seajtl
3 years 7 months ago

You seriously would want Gio over Pineda?

3 years 7 months ago

Pineda is better, younger and cheaper than Garza or Gio.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

two out of three anyway

Thizzie
3 years 7 months ago

IMO-Pineda is better pick up than both Gio and Garza considering the upside, the minimal $$$ owed and his age.

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Pineda also cost the Yanks less, and he will be good for the Yanks because they average 6 runs a game, plus their pen is better.

Thizzie
3 years 7 months ago

agreed, he’ll do real well for the Yanks.  He was a legit #2 starter in his rookie year.  I can’t believe he was traded.

Thizzie
3 years 7 months ago

IMO-Pineda is better pick up than both Gio and Garza considering the upside, the minimal $$$ owed and his age.

3 years 7 months ago

Pineda might already be better than Gonzalez and he has more years of control.  Pineda is much more valuable than Garza, that isn’t even up for debate.

3 years 7 months ago

Pineda might already be better than Gonzalez and he has more years of control.  Pineda is much more valuable than Garza, that isn’t even up for debate.

Tirameenlasbolas
3 years 7 months ago

No way Beane was giving up Gio to the Yanks w/ out getting one of the B’s AND Montero.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

right. if he’s miguel cabrera, the yankees lost this trade by a good margin

but i always like when teams talk up the player even after they trade him; that’s good form. can’t stand when fans immediately switch from “he’s so good” to “he’s so overrated” as soon as a guy is dealt

3 years 7 months ago

I don’t know what to think. I like the deal because Pineda is a good pitcher, but I think they could have gotten more for him. Plus I really loved Montero. Oh, well. I guess I have to love Pineda now!

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

you should. he’s the best pitching prospect they have (even though he’s not technically a prospect anymore)

if it were me, i’d have preferred to keep montero. but you really can’t criticize this deal for the yankees. long-term, it’s likely pretty even. short-term, they are now easy AL favorites

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

I agree. It’s like they feel like they have to diminish what they gave up to make themselves feel better. Also, I’m so sick and tired of ppl saying the Yanks need to rest their old players at the DH spot. Arod IS a concern because of his health but that would’ve been a good problem to have assuming Montero was the hitter they felt he would become. No way is Jeter worth a day off and Tex is still young enough to stick at 1b and when he needs a rest,….sit him on the bench. Who else are these “old players” people refer to.

No down the line, it would’ve been nice to have Montero’s bat in the #3 or #4 spot during his prime years but I can’t help but imagine how good this can work out if Pineda pitches well.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

2012 is one thing, but in 2013 you’re looking at

sabathia
hamels/cain
pineda
hughes/nova
burnett

that’s going to be pretty impressive. banuelos & co will be knocking on the door too. you have to like what cashman has put together in terms of organizational pitching depth. hitters are a lot easier to acquire on the free agent market

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

when are yanks fans going to realize that both hughes and burnett are at best questionable???……i would take nova over those clowns anyday and the fact you don’t have nova a guranteed 4 in your hypothetical rotation is beyond me

jjs91
3 years 7 months ago

When are people going to realize notsureifsrs is a redsox fan

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

im just saying in general…..how many times have you seen yanks fans say burnett/hughes are good…..i didn’t imply that he was, im just saying in general….

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

You worry too much about down the line.  “Down the line” if the Yankees need another big bat for the 3 or 4 hole, they’ll find one.

East Coast Bias
3 years 7 months ago

Move over Latos and Gio, this has to be the trade of the off-season!

Losing Montero hurts, but Cash did what was right. Both sides dealt from a position of strength to address an area of need. 

dylanp5030
3 years 7 months ago

Both Gio and Latos were MASSIVE overpays. Yankees played it right and won that deal. Especially if Campos continues to develop and profile as another middle rotation (3-4) starter.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

no kidding……the nats took it up the pooper on the gio deal…..that, unfortantely is the market for starting pitching right now….the yanks got off light imo………

3 years 7 months ago

Plus Campos is a high-upside guy.  Interesting get.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

It is interesting to see Latos pull in 4 strong prospects, while Pineda was worth… 1?  I understand Montero is highly regarded, but he’s a future DH.  It’s just bizarre from the standpoint of the Ms.  Plus to throw in another high ceiling pitcher baffles me.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

montero is a lot better than any of the prospects traded in either of the other two deals, but latos is quite a bit better than pineda

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

I understand that, but it’s not like the other deals were pure quantity over quality.  Both had a few top 100 guys involved where Montero is top 10-15?  Just don’t see it, especially throwing in Campos.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

keep in mind that the mariners were selling really high. pineda kinda surprised everyone in 2011 and di d not have a particularly strong second half of the season. he basically has gio/latos potential, with a very good rookie season under his belt

i think NY still made the best trade of the 3, but pineda comes with more question marks than the other two

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

Fair enough, but it’s tough to say Montero doesn’t still have a ? or two.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

I don’t completely disagree, but it’s not like Montero comes question free.  He hasn’t even played a season at the major league level yet.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

true, but all of the questions about montero have been about his position and defense. there isn’t a scout alive that expects him to end up worse than an above average hitter – and that’s what he was acquired to be

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Of course, but just because they expect it, it doesn’t mean it will happen.  He still has to play the game and he’s yet to do that.  It’s a risky move both ways.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

generally when everybody agrees a guy is going to succeed and it’s just a question of how good he’ll be, we don’t call him a risk

equating pineda’s risk with montero’s is a mistake. their ceilings may be similar, but their floors aren’t

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

No, it would actually be very naive to call him a no risk. Just because it’s a lower risk doesn’t mean he’s no risk.  Just becuase it’s not equally risky doesn’t mean it’s not risky for both of them.  

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

you’re nit-picking and kinda straw-manning

“risky” isn’t used to denote “non-zero risk”; it’s used to denote risk of significance

there’s a non-zero risk with every player, including established stars. but it’s not worth bringing up

montero’s risk is very limited, especially compared to pineda’s. that was and still is the point

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Then agree to disagree, becauseI hardly see it being limited risk for a right handed batter to play in Safeco, none the less one that hasn’t even suited up for a full season yet. Plus this is getting ridiculous to read, so we can’t keep going back and forth anyhow.

4theisland
3 years 7 months ago

Latos is quite a bit better than Pineda? Not IMO he isn’t. Pineda is two years younger, throws as hard, and is more mature already. IMO he has more upside than Latos. I think SD hosed Cincinnati in that trade, and would rather have traded Pineda to Cincinnati for the four players they traded to SD for Latos. But for whatever reason it didn’t happen.

Nobody got hosed in this one. It was one great young player for another. I get that the M’s had to throw in Campos to get the deal done. Everybody says he is a good one but I have not seen him pitch so what do I know?

I’m sorry from a Seattle standpoint to lose Pineda, but elated to get Montero here. I don’t give a rip if he can catch or not — although Seattle has a great catching coach in Roger Hansen and we will see about that — but the M’s needed a big young bat in the middle of the order and they got one. Supposedly Montero has a bigger upside than Alonso or Grandal, good as they might be.  

And for the bozos who think the M’s would ever trade Felix — give it up, already, will you? You’re all dreaming. Felix is in Seattle to stay. The dude has four — count ’em, four — major league out pitches. That kind of pitcher comes along once in a generation, That’s Juan Marichal territory. Does anybody imagine that the M’s don’t know what they have?

4theisland
3 years 7 months ago

Latos is quite a bit better than Pineda? Not IMO he isn’t. Pineda is two years younger, throws as hard, and is more mature already. IMO he has more upside than Latos. I think SD hosed Cincinnati in that trade, and would rather have traded Pineda to Cincinnati for the four players they traded to SD for Latos. But for whatever reason it didn’t happen.

Nobody got hosed in this one. It was one great young player for another. I get that the M’s had to throw in Campos to get the deal done. Everybody says he is a good one but I have not seen him pitch so what do I know?

I’m sorry from a Seattle standpoint to lose Pineda, but elated to get Montero here. I don’t give a rip if he can catch or not — although Seattle has a great catching coach in Roger Hansen and we will see about that — but the M’s needed a big young bat in the middle of the order and they got one. Supposedly Montero has a bigger upside than Alonso or Grandal, good as they might be.  

And for the bozos who think the M’s would ever trade Felix — give it up, already, will you? You’re all dreaming. Felix is in Seattle to stay. The dude has four — count ’em, four — major league out pitches. That kind of pitcher comes along once in a generation, That’s Juan Marichal territory. Does anybody imagine that the M’s don’t know what they have?

4theisland
3 years 7 months ago

Latos is quite a bit better than Pineda? You’re just plain flat delusional if you think that.  Pineda is two years younger and throws harder. Plus he’s mature. Latos is a head case.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

about 7 hours from now you should post yet another reply to that comment. make sure it contains no evidence whatsoever though, so it can match

Thizzie
3 years 7 months ago

Agreed, nice points.  I think the Yankees did real well.  I would not have thought Pineda was available, yet everyone knew Montero was

3 years 7 months ago

I’d buy the Montero DH argument more if Yonder Alonso had any defensive value whatsoever. But anyways, why would an NL team trade for a guy without a position? Teams clearly have different evaluations of Montero, and the Mariners have always liked him.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

Alonso is actually average defensively at 1B… LF is another story.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

It is interesting to see Latos pull in 4 strong prospects, while Pineda was worth… 1?  I understand Montero is highly regarded, but he’s a future DH.  It’s just bizarre from the standpoint of the Ms.  Plus to throw in another high ceiling pitcher baffles me.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

it’s gotta be up there. latos is the better pitcher, but he cost a lot more given the years of control here

Thizzie
3 years 7 months ago

Latos was terrible for the Padres last year, very inconsitent and very hittable.  No where near the previous year, the Padres fleeced the Reds on that trade.  anybody that watch Latos last year would agree that something wasn’t right with him…

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

“Latos was terrible for the Padres last year”

stopped reading

3 years 7 months ago

Even if Montero is as good as Buster Posey, which he isn’t. However, lets say he is, how in the world is this going to help with the Mariner Anemic Offense? One player isn’t going to do it.

dylanp5030
3 years 7 months ago

Ackley and Smoak will get better and Franklin will provide offsense at SS. I think good things are to come for Seattle. Especially when Walker and Hutzen are ready.

East Coast Bias
3 years 7 months ago

A young core of Smoak, Ackley, and Montero (and even Carp) will be great to build around. Sets them up for the future, where they can add FA bats every year if need be, since pitching is coming up through the pipeline for cheap. 

Thizzie
3 years 7 months ago

As a Ranger fan, didn’t mind giving up Smoak but I didn’t like losing Bevan.  Smoak is slow, slow hands and slow feet, he’s a little over-rated.  Bottom tier big league firstbaseman.  It’s cool he’s a switch hitter.  Ackley and Montero are very quality guys tho, Carp was a hitting fool last year too.  M’s need to bulk up in the OF and 3B, I’m not a big Gutierez fan either, guess I think they need some work.  They are in a heck of a lot better position than the Astros or Mets tho!  
Got some decent young arms too, obviously since they can trade away a guy like Pineda

slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Good trades are when both sides benifit.

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
3 years 7 months ago

No, good trades are when my team completely rips off the other team

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

they shouldn’t get one good hitter until they have others? that’s quite a riddle to solve

it works in their favor that montero is an opposite-field masher. right-handed hitters generally go to safeco to die, but montero should be fine there. i like this trade for the mariners as much as i do for the yankees; it really is pretty even

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

That’s assuming that Jack Z actually thinks he’s going to solve their offensive problems.  Chances are if you don’t think he will, neither does he.  It’s just a chance to improve it.  It’s got to start somewhere.

3 years 7 months ago

Well when the story first broke, they said “Impact Bat”
Believe me Montero wasn’t the first name that came to mind.
The other problem is the Mariners still have Olivio and his 3+ million dollar salary.

PS Weren’t there some rumblings within the past few weeks, that some Mariner Brass thought Pineda wasn’t that good. The bottom line is the Yankee rotation got better tonight and now the Yankees are done shopping all in the matter of an hour.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Then you need to stop cherry picking what you’re reading and read more carefully.  The headline was “young” impact bat, and he clearly fits the mold even if he’s not the first to come to mind.  There is no problem with Olivo because Montero isn’t a good catcher.  Of course there were rumblings about that because he’s young and isn’t a polished pitcher.  Montero isn’t exactly a proven star either.

3 years 7 months ago

This silly new term ” Cherry Picking”. I heard that yesterday or the day before, because I used “WHIP” to evaluate a pitcher, who’s name I already forget.

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

It’s not so silly when you’re actually doing it.

radnom
3 years 7 months ago

Check his MLBTR archive, its only a couple articles claiming the Mariners were not considering trading him despite interest. One earlier this month, directly preceded by one last July. Your bias is showing.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

did you not see montero during his end of the year call up?……lefty, you are po’d that the orioles didn’t get him…….you would be doing cartwheels if the o’s got montero and you would be telling us you are gonna go ahead and put reservations on your playoff tickets….

Stuart Brown
3 years 7 months ago

He brings immediate relief in the department that they lacked severely, and that’s a right handed bat with power.

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

Ummm Montero projects to be a better hitter than Posey. Is that a real question? 

3 years 7 months ago

As opposed to what? My “World” Famous Fake Questions?

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

the mariners are trying to do something about it……now, the rumors of prince going there are over, thank god……..i see that window closing for cartman jr……….

3 years 7 months ago

I’m not sold on Pineda (or Teheran for that matter).

That said, interesting trade for both teams.  Seems more teams are willing to do prospect for prospect trades these days.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

i wish they would happen more often

3 years 7 months ago

I agree.  I assume it has a lot to do with knowing what you have better than what others have (less risk in keeping your own guys).

That said, I think trades like Cashner/Rizzo and Pineda/Montero can be incredibly useful to competitive teams

YanksFanSince78
3 years 7 months ago

it just seems logical. I love the fact that Pineda is a step above being a prospect though. 

This trade looks very good if you consider the depth of young mlb pitchers (Pineda, Nova, Hughes possibly Joba) and the depth of mlb ready pitchers (Warren, Phelps, Mitchell) and near mlb ready pitchers (Bans and Bets). Yanks also have some interesting pitching prospects at the A/AA levels too now with Campos, Marshall, Stoneburner, Heredia, Quintana, Nuno and Ramirez. 

I drool over a possible 2013 rotation of Sabathia + Pineda + Hughes + Nova + Bans/Bets. That’s a lot of young pitching.

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

i just wrote almost the exact same thing in a comment to you upthread. except there’s no way the 2013 rotation is without one of hamels and cain

captainjeter
3 years 7 months ago

Expect  both to stay where  they are.

jjs91
3 years 7 months ago

Quitana signed a major league deal with the white sox

Tko11
Tko11
3 years 7 months ago

So if that package wasnt accepted for Felix, he is basically untouchable?

3 years 7 months ago

For now?  Betances and Banuelos don’t seem like guys the Mariners would like though so maybe they valued them lower?!?!

3 years 7 months ago

They want Banuelos and Betances. Every team does. But they just need more bats, not pitching. If I could start at over half of the positions on a Major League team, there’s a problem.

3 years 7 months ago

Banuelos and Betances doesn’t fit the “mold” that the M’s look for is my point.  I know exactly what they were looking for.

Note – “exactly”, written above, was in reference to them looking for hitting, not pitching. It was not intended to be taken literally. Thanks guys. Super.

East Coast Bias
3 years 7 months ago

Well, don’t keep it a secret! Tell us what you know, wise Jeff. 

3 years 7 months ago

Exactly what they are looking for? I don’t think any fan can say that about their favorite team. I didn’t think the Yankees were looking to trade Montero for Pineda. Do you work in the Mariner’s Front Office?

3 years 7 months ago

That’s cute.  I meant I know that they were looking for hitting as opposed to pitching.  Glad everyone took that literally though

PennMariner
3 years 7 months ago

That’s cute that you think you could start for the Mariners.

3 years 7 months ago

I think it’s more sad that I could. I might only bat .030, but I’d be their clean up guy.

Thizzie
3 years 7 months ago

You should probably stop make ridiculous comments, your losing credibility, the M’s offense is so weak tho, so maybe you could tryout I guess

3 years 7 months ago

The Mariners are loaded with starting pitching prospects, they would want position players for Felix.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

You’re kind of overvaluing these two prospects.  Both scream “possible future set up man or closer” to me.  Banuelos is much more interesting than Betances, regardless of ceiling though.

3 years 7 months ago

You mean a guy who walked almost 5 guys per 9 innings scares you.  I’m shocked.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

Yet look at the return Gio got…

3 years 7 months ago

I thought that was a moronic trade also.  Especially considering you could have had EJax who’s basically the same pitcher.

jjs91
3 years 7 months ago

You arent exactly a scout now are you?

$3513744
3 years 7 months ago

Was that never completely apparent?

Tko11
Tko11
3 years 7 months ago

Not from a realistic standpoint. If they can pretty much pick any 4-5 prospects they want from the Yankees farm system why would they not do it? I mean how much higher can his value get?

Stuart Brown
3 years 7 months ago

You’d have to think so.

3 years 7 months ago

I think so, unless Felix Hernandez asks out. I think that he is more likely to be traded after next season.

East Coast Bias
3 years 7 months ago

I wonder if a package highlighted by Gardner and Montero would have sufficed. 

Tko11
Tko11
3 years 7 months ago

Gardner is 28, not that hes old or anything but I would imagine the Mariners want younger players to be the top pieces of a package for Felix. Felix is unbelievably only 25! Its hard to imagine what a package for Felix would be but I would have to think it would be one that consists of multiple top prospects in a teams farm system.

3 years 7 months ago

I still feel like the yankees shouldn’t have made the deal, I feel like the chance that Montero reaches his potential is much greater than Pineda reaching his. A two pitch fly ball pitcher doesn’t seem all that appealing in the AL East’s small ballparks.

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

Yankees got Campos as well, another high ceiling pitcher.

3 years 7 months ago

He’s 3 years away though, and guys that far down fizzle out more times than not

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

That doesn’t mean he lacks value

Thizzie
3 years 7 months ago

Pineda has a whole year under his belt; on a terrible team he was really one of only two bright spots on the entire team.  The word is Montero is weak on D or he’d a been in the show a year earlier, so it seems like Pineda is much closer to reaching his potential as a legit top of rotation starter since he has already done this (#2 starter as a rook) and Montero has played 18 big league games at DH.  Why do you think Montero has a greater chance of reaching his potential?

3 years 7 months ago

The yankees haven’t been able to develop many pitchers who are successful starters even after being top prospects. But they’ve shown they’re able to develop bats. Also, montero just flat our rakes, I think if he played everyday last year, he could’ve hit .270/360 with 25 homeruns.

3 years 7 months ago

Why does it have to be a “win the deal” scenario, I see this as pretty beneficial to both parties.

3 years 7 months ago

It seems like a “win” for both teams.  

BDLugz
3 years 7 months ago

I do agree it benefits both – but I also think the M’s could have gotten more.  However, there may not have been a single better bat available, and they may have preferred quality over quantity, regardless of position played.

PennMariner
3 years 7 months ago

Throwing Campos into the pot kind of irked me, but there’s really no reason for anyone to get hung up about this trade. It fits a need for both parties – and both fits come with ridiculous upside. Take care of Michael, Yankees. On another note, in case you’ve already forgotten: Felix is ours and you can’t have him.

3 years 7 months ago

Until free agency.

melonis_rex
3 years 7 months ago

The Mariners are a higher payroll team. They’re perennially very close to or above 100MM. 

If Felix is willing to stay in Seattle and it makes sense, I’m sure the M’s can top whatever deal any other team can offer monetarily .

PennMariner
3 years 7 months ago

Edit: Damn you, Disqus!

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

While everyone is sitting here lamenting over the loss of Montero, keep in mind that Mason Williams shot up the list of prospects, he’ll likely be #1 in their whole organization this season. He plays a position of need for the Yankees. Another potential 5 tool player, albeit less power. Really wanted to see Montero, but from the practical business side of it, it just wasn’t going to happen on the Yanks. Some of us always knew this. Romine is far better defensive catcher and he’ll be backing up Martin this season. Sanchez another phenomenal prospect is maybe 2 years away. Good trade for both teams and as I said earlier the best part about getting Campos is to wash away that bad aftertaste of losing Viscaino in the Vasquez deal 2 years ago. I see it as an equal replacement. 

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

a good way to soothe whatever pains people have over losing montero is to remember that he was nearly traded for half a season of cliff lee. instead they now get 5 years of pineda

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Exactly. 3 months vs 5 years plus with other teams being starved for  young pitching, it makes players like Betances and even Banuelos expendable for other impact players. I’m very satisfied. I would not have felt the same way if this was a deal with Garza or Gonzalez. Both good pitchers in their own right, but when you consider the asking price, anything more than just Montero would have been a huge overpay. In Pineda we got the younger, cheaper option. I see Pineda latching on to Cano in the club house. This could be good. 

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

While everyone is sitting here lamenting over the loss of Montero, keep in mind that Mason Williams shot up the list of prospects, he’ll likely be #1 in their whole organization this season. He plays a position of need for the Yankees. Another potential 5 tool player, albeit less power. Really wanted to see Montero, but from the practical business side of it, it just wasn’t going to happen on the Yanks. Some of us always knew this. Romine is far better defensive catcher and he’ll be backing up Martin this season. Sanchez another phenomenal prospect is maybe 2 years away. Good trade for both teams and as I said earlier the best part about getting Campos is to wash away that bad aftertaste of losing Viscaino in the Vasquez deal 2 years ago. I see it as an equal replacement. 

3 years 7 months ago

i’m curious as to what exactly that non M’s baseball guy is smoking

FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
3 years 7 months ago

more like Smoak-ing amirite

3 years 7 months ago

Thank God the yankees didn’t get Felix. That would have been really bad news for the Jays (and rest of AL east).

MB923
3 years 7 months ago

That’s true, but it also would have taken an even bigger hit on the Yankees farm system. 

3 years 7 months ago

Gotta giggle at the “non-M’s baseball guy” who believes Noesi is a better long-term option for the Mariners than Pineda.  Assuming it’s a strict head-to-head comparison that is.  It’s a really short quote.

*And Twitter confirms that it is.

3 years 7 months ago

I think they meant to say “non-baseball guy”. It was just random guy they interviewed on the street.

alxn
3 years 7 months ago

Salk tends to talk out of his behind. The fact that he would even think that “tidbit” was worth mentioning says it all. It reflects poorly on him to give any credibility to someone who would think that.

jwsox
3 years 7 months ago

this might be one of those trades that is a win for both teams. The M’s clearly traded from an area of strength in terms of young pitching. As stated by their future pitchers coming up and probably coming up very soon now. The yankees traded away a guy who was looking like a DH for them. Catcher is clearly held down by Martin and 1st is obviously locked up with Tex. Essentially they traded a DH for a top of the rotation pitcher. The real question is how do both of these guys translate to their new teams. Montero obviously will see number drop while hitting at home but his away numbers should be just fine. At worst he is a good hitter (better if he sticks at catcher) where as pineda is leaving the park that made him a great trade chip. His road ERA is 4.4 his ERA rose as the year went on(to be expected for a young pitcher)
there is a ton of risk from both teams, what if Montero truly is just yankees hype and busts and Pineda turns into a true ACE…what if Pineda was a one hit wonder, a good pitcher on a bad team in a pitcher park without true pressure and if Montero turns into a year in year out 30-40 HR .280+avg  .350+OBP 800-900+OPS CATCHER?!?!  no one knows…

i truly think this is a fair even trade…now if its true that the yankees offered Montero the B-boys plus more prospects for Felix I think they probably should have done that who knows.

Justin Bobko
3 years 7 months ago

garza is not better than pineda. he had a 1.10 ERA this year, garza can only dream about that, and this was pineda’s rookie season. in fact, i would say garza is superior to gio and lato

H E I N Z
3 years 7 months ago

Pineda has to prove this by being good in the East. Garza proved that. 

inleylandwetrust
3 years 7 months ago

Garza:  SIERA: 3.31  FIP: 2.95  xFIP: 3.19  WAR: 5

Pineda: SIERA: 3.36  FIP: 3.42  xFIP: 3.53  WAR 4.1 

Garza had the better season

3 years 7 months ago

Why’d you have to bring stats into this?

Justin Bobko
3 years 7 months ago

1.10 WHIP*