Quick Hits: Hardy, Braves, Cardinals, Phillies

Here’s the latest from around the game …

  • Orioles shortstop J.J. Hardy is not currently engaged in extension talks with Baltimore and could make sense to a lot of clubs on the free agent market, says Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (audio link). But he would still fit back with the O’s, with club executive vice president Dan Duquette telling Rosenthal that the team puts a high value on keeping Manny Machado‘s glove at third, seemingly indicating that it may not look to move him back to his natural short. Though Hardy has not repeated his home run tallied from recent seasons, he is still a just-below-average offensive contributor with outstanding defense, and both major methods of calculating wins above replacement see him as having already contributed 2.5 WAR this year.
  • The Braves were close to pulling off a major deadline deal that would have sent center fielder B.J. Upton and a starter (which could have been either Mike Minor or Ervin Santana) to an unidentified club and for an unidentified return. The nature of the hypothetical return has not been revealed, but Rosenthal says that Atlanta ultimately felt it was not receiving sufficient value in return. Ultimately, the conception of the move was intended more to shake up the roster and clubhouse (in addition, no doubt, to shedding Upton’s future obligations), and Rosenthal says that a deal of that type could be revisited in the offseason.
  • The Cardinals should find a way to upgrade the bench in the coming weeks, opines Bernie Miklasz of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. While Peter Bourjos has been an asset even as he sees less action than Jon Jay, Miklasz looks at the numbers on the rest of the non-regulars and sees plenty of room for improvement.
  • The Phillies have found themselves in a seemingly intractable situation in part due to GM Ruben Amaro Jr.’s willingness to bend and then break the organization’s own rules on limiting pitching contracts, writes Mitch Goldich of Baseball Prospectus. Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Jonathan Papelbon, and Cole Hamels were all viewed to some extent as exceptions to the team’s internal guidelines. And while all have had their moments of success, the aggregate commitment (and already-clear lack of back-end value from at least the first three) has played a significant (albeit not exclusive) role in the team’s current predicament.


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49 Comments on "Quick Hits: Hardy, Braves, Cardinals, Phillies"


Paclypse71
1 year 20 days ago

Just getting the other team to take on BJ’s contract wasn’t enough?

rundmc1981
1 year 20 days ago

0-5, 3K again tonight…at the top of the lineup. No man, we need a top prospect for our mistake.

tomymogo
1 year 20 days ago

BJ Upton and Mike Minor for whatever….I like it

Allismileo
1 year 20 days ago

Sufficient return? Flowers and a box of chocolates would have been a fair trade for them. A pitcher for a month and half and a center-fielder who is nothing more than a late inning defensive replacement is not not much of an offer

brian310
1 year 20 days ago

Tyler Flowers?

nightmarerec0n
1 year 20 days ago

The Braves would probably have to include Teheran and Justin Upton to get anyone to take on that B.J. Upton contract

Mike Query
1 year 20 days ago

No.

turnurvern-on
1 year 20 days ago

anyone else think that the anonymous team involved with the braves could have been toronto?

George Bell
1 year 20 days ago

Can’t see Toronto taking on any more big contracts unless Buehrle or Reyes are part of a deal. They were passing around a collection plate to sign Santana in the offseason.

Ted
1 year 20 days ago

Jays have zero use for Upton in the field and can’t afford his contract.

tomymogo
1 year 20 days ago

Seattle maybe

bloodgimp
1 year 19 days ago

I don’t see a fit in Seattle anymore since they picked up Austin Jackson (great trade for them, by the way) and Chris Denofria.

Joe Goodin
1 year 20 days ago

The Braves have to keep BJ Upton until they can extend Justin. They’ll have no shot if they seperate the two.

Gnotorious
1 year 20 days ago

The braves won’t be able to extend JUp either way. He will be 28 when his contract is up and his last chance for a huge pay day. Heyward will also be a FA the same year and I doubt the braves can afford both (if either) and would rather sign the younger, home grown, local talent.

Joe Goodin
1 year 20 days ago

Point taken, but unless there is a legitimate trade partner for B.J., I would hang on to him “just in” case. Plenty of money will be freed up once you’re done paying Dan Uggla and Ervin Santana so perhaps you could theoretically afford both assuming Heyward takes somewhat of a hometown discount

dave
1 year 20 days ago

Don’t worry Bernie, Mozeliak will fix the bench…Because he’s the best GM in baseball. He traded the best hitter they had Allen Craig for some old past his prime pitcher Lackey, and he gets a pitcher with a bad knee in Masterson… Don’t worry the offense will hit!

The_Artist_Formerly_OFIC
1 year 20 days ago

hitting real well today and yesterday….glad you guys don’t have Craig this week…

dave
1 year 20 days ago

That’s why the should have traded for offense and not pitching… Mozeliak is a genius!

cardinalsfan27
1 year 20 days ago

They wouldn’t have had Craig anyways, he’s on the DL.

john sands
1 year 20 days ago

Sox put him on DL …. does not mean the Cardinals would have. He as been hurt all year..

cardinalsfan27
1 year 20 days ago

He re injured his ankle. Not saying it would have happened had he been in St. Louis but not saying it wouldn’t have either.

cardinalsfan27
1 year 20 days ago

Trade for what offense? What offensive player was available outside of Cespedes? And could he play CF?

dave
1 year 20 days ago

Marlon Byrd? Could have used him of the bench, you mean Bourjos/Jay/Robinson is better then Byrd? Ok then, Mozeliak just don’t want to give anyone up… Only reason why they traded Craig is because MO wanted Taverez to play everyday and Matheny didn’t..

cardinalsfan27
1 year 20 days ago

You’re assuming a ton. Amaro was wanting way too much for guys like Lee and Hamels. What makes you think he wasn’t asking for too much for Byrd as well. Then would MO be willing to give up a ton for a guy to come off the bench? Every other team that’s in contention passed on trading for Byrd as well. That should be telling.

dave
1 year 20 days ago

He probley was asking to much but that was just an opinion… Ryan Ludwick was there… I know he plays in the division, I’m sure other bench guys was out there to be had but it is what it is.

cardinalsfan27
1 year 20 days ago

How is that an opinion? I think it’s very telling that no team got Byrd. He’s on waivers right now and nobody’s still going after him.
The Cards and Reds are both in contention and aren’t making a trade with each other.
I’m sure there are other options out there as well but we have no idea who and for what.

dave
1 year 20 days ago

Yeah meant option instead of opinion.. my bad..and yeah… it is what it is.

coreybishop
1 year 20 days ago

BJ Upton and Ervin Santana for a pack of gum would have been nice. Get rid of the contracts!!! This year is shot. Then fire Fredi, Walker, Dascenzo. Bring Snitker back for 3B coach. Make Eddie Perez Manager and let’s find a real hitting coach. Move La Stella to 3B, get Peraza for 2B.

Lennie Briscoe
1 year 20 days ago

Wouldn’t be surprised to see Walker get the boot after the season is done but anything else is asking too much of this organization, especially when needed change is obvious. Until Schuerholz is pressured/forced into retirement, you’ll only see cosmetic changes made by the Braves from year to year.

La Stella doesn’t profile well at all at 3B for a number of reasons. Its a good possibility you’ll see Peraza moved to CF in the offseason to be groomed as BJ’s replacement.

rundmc1981
1 year 20 days ago

“Fredi” is an anagram for “fired” — it’s inevitable. La Stella and his 1 HR and bad arm at 2B make the move to 3B…and we thought Chris Johnson didn’t have enough power for a 3B…

Mike1L
1 year 20 days ago

i would have thought the upton contract was immovable. santana is no better than a 4-5. what type of return could they possibly be looking for?

CT
1 year 20 days ago

Santana as a 4-5 is crazy talk, he’s a 3 at worst. He has been the 2nd best Braves starter this season.

Mike1L
1 year 20 days ago

Santana has an ERA+ of 99 and 1.5 WAR. that’s ok, not shoot the lights out. That’s the pitcher he’s been through his career. ten years, a total of 17.2 war, and a lifetime ERA+ of 100. Always more apparent talent than results.

TDKnies
1 year 20 days ago

Fangraphs has him at 2.4 WAR and pretty good FIP and xFIP at 3.22 and 3.38 respectively. The FIP’s and SIERA put him in the top third of 92 qualified starting pitchers. Guess it depends on which advanced pitching stats you like best.

TDKnies
1 year 20 days ago

Side question as I don’t know much about the advanced stuff, what would cause the FIPs and ERA+ to be so different?

Mike1L
1 year 20 days ago

ERA+ is adjusted for ballpark. he may have had a lot of starts in pitcher friendly ballparks. Edit-he has 11 starts at home, which has a park factor of 95. Under 100 favors pitchers. i’d have to look at the away games

Jeffy25
1 year 20 days ago

Era+ is based on runs actually allowed.

Fip is based on the expected results the pitcher should probably be getting based on how he is pitching (k’s, bb’s, Etc).

Era- agrees with era+

But solid fip and fip-, a solid pitcher, an average 3-4 in most rotations, maybe a 2 in some.

Era+ is also park adjusted. That’s based on actual results. Runs allowed, and adjusted for park and league (100 is league average, over is better, under is worse).

Kevin Kim
1 year 20 days ago

The Upton + Minor / Santana trade could have gone to the Rays for Price, who would get B.J. back in a ballpark he excelled. It would make more sense for Upton + Minor but it could have also been a deal with the Red Sox too.

Mike1L
1 year 20 days ago

Curious, but why would Tampa take on all that salary?

Jeff McCoy
1 year 20 days ago

If the Rays could afford the dead weight that is BJ Upton, they’d just resign Price (and they wouldn’t want Santana whose contract expires after this season).

Unless the Braves were eating 75% of Upton’s salary, that would make no sense for them.

George Yang
1 year 20 days ago

How is Roy Halladay on this list? He only signed a 3 year contract extension when he was traded did he not? And he promptly retired, which means he’s not being a drag on payroll? Even if he hadn’t, wouldn’t insurance pay for the DL stint? Unlike someone who is currently “healthy” and can’t hit worth anything, AKA Ryan Howard?

Jeff Miller
1 year 20 days ago

They generally wouldn’t go beyond a 3-year deal and Doc had a year remaining in his deal when the trade was made basically making it a 4-year deal with an option.

TDKnies
1 year 20 days ago

Wonder if the hypothetical BJ trade to mystery team was a salary dump or bad contract swap? The only way I can see the Braves thinking they weren’t getting enough value (ha) was if they weren’t really saving a worthwhile amount of money, or if they were getting an equally bad (if possible) player / contract in return while having to pitch in extra.

Donskoy
1 year 20 days ago

Let’s hope that the Astros were somehow involved, then we’ll find out.

rick staley
1 year 20 days ago

BJ Upton, Mike Minor, & JR Graham for Brett Gardner & ML prospect in the
off-season ?!?

Eric
1 year 20 days ago

In general when trading for something of value you have to give as well. The Yankees aren’t trading Gardner, a good player with a good contract, for three bad players. I know Minor could turn it around but that’s only worth so much when he has a 5 ERA.

Nathan Justice
1 year 19 days ago

Minor would get shelled at yankees stadium

Eric
1 year 20 days ago

(1) Other team backed out but Braves are acting like it was them. Minor has been horrible and Santana couldn’t find a team last off-season. No team is touching those players without Atlanta throwing some serious cash in.

(2). The Ruben Amaro story is fascinating on a couple levels. First of all, Gillick was really onto something with that 3 year rule. Second of all, Amarao doesn’t have a clue as to what he’s doing. His entire tenure was based on getting Lee and Halladay which was in direct conflict with one of his principles as a GM. How does he rationalize the hypocracy? And to do it for Papelbon as well is just mind boggling.

bloodgimp
1 year 19 days ago

RE: Braves, I just imagine the hold-up being that the other team wasn’t willing to take on enough of BJ’s salary. The Braves are going to have to throw in significant, controllable, cheap prospects/players for that to happen. But if this opportunity arises again, they need to jump on it – get anything for BJ while they can.