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Gary Graf
Would like to see them give Nyjer Morgan a shot at CF. If he can’t hold down the starting position, he’d make a speedy 4th outfielder/pinch runner
Brv Rocks
No way the Braves sign him. He is a fruitcake. Todd Cunningham at AAA makes a lot more sense.
Gary Graf
Yeah, I know he’s not the best clubhouse presence, but the Braves are definite need of speed. If you look at their best seasons, the common theme is good starting pitching, good d up in the middle, and a speedy guy at the top three batting order.
Brv Rocks
He hasn’t really played in 2 years though. The Braves should get Jose Peraza up sometime next year and he stole 60 bases in the minors last year.
Gary Graf
Agreed 100 percent. I’m just afraid they’re taking the slow approach with him.
blueagleace1
We have a Nyjer Morgan, his name is Jose Constanza!
Gary Graf
Haha Morgan isn’t that bad. At least, he has 30 and 40 SB seasons to his name. Odds are the Braves won’t have much room left in their budget to replace Upton. They’re getting to have to look at these type of cheap low risk / high potential contracts
blueagleace1
Your argument about SB’s makes zero sense… have you seen Constanza’s SB numbers? He would steal just as many if not more bases than Morgan given equal playing time and at-bats.
Gary Graf
But he hasn’t. That’s the point.
blueagleace1
But he hasn’t what? He just stole 30 last year!
Gary Graf
Not at the MLB level, that’s a big difference.
blueagleace1
He hasn’t had the opportunity.
Gary Graf
He’s had his opportunities in the past. Plus, if you can’t beat out BJ Upoton for playing time, well you know…
blueagleace1
Had opportunities?? The most games he’s played is 42 in 2011 (11 of those games were as a defensive replacement) and he stole 7 bases (would equate to right at 30 bags (36 to be exact) over a full season)).
Derek 2
As a Tigers fan I’d trade them Price for Ju Upton/Heyward in a heartbeat. Heck throw in Alex Wood and we’ll give you Kinsler too.
mikeq672
Why would the Braves do that?
Robert Joseph Cerasuolo
First I would trade BJ Upton Tood Cunningham and Alex Wood for Soler and Edwin Jackson then trade Gattis Pastornicky to the Brewers for Scooter Gennett and
Elian Herrera. Then I would sign Santana and Harang back move Beachy and Medlen to the bullpen and use them as spot starts and long extra innings relief
Jeff McCoy
Wood is arguably our best starter and even if the Cubs would deal Soler for him, I wouldn’t do it (besides, to get the Cubs to take on Upton, we’d have to have a better player than Cunningham going to them). Brewers already have a better option at C in Lucroy (and Braun in LF) and while Gennett and Herrera would likely be upgrades over LaStella and Johnson, Pastornicky has almost zero trade value.
We can’t afford to sign Santana to a multi-year contract, and unless Harang is willing to go 1 year at around $5M (he wouldn’t be), I don’t think the risk is worth it for him.
Stoibs
Watching Bethancourt attempt to hit major league pitching over an entire season will be an absolute nightmare for Braves fans. They need to acquire more at the position. Losing Gattis would only multiply this problem. The structure is still there for a very competitive team. First order of business is dumping BJ Upton. Bourjos will be available on the cheap when the Cardinals eventually let him go. Terdoslavich is a more than serviceable backup for 1B/3b, so no need to make any moves there. The bullpen still looks great, so maybe just a minor piece there is required. Maybe you pick up De Aza as a fourth outfielder that can play all three positions. So really we are looking at needing a 2B and two or three starters. Rickie Weeks will be available and will be really affordable. He would be a great option and would compliment La Stella. Baker on another make-good contract fills one of those pitching holes. Maybe the Braves go a little out of their comfort zone and sign Liriano. Club still has the makings of a contender. Small tweaks and they’re right back in the thick of things. This is actually an enviable position that a new GM would be coming into.
tomymogo
I tend to agree that Bethancourt will struggle to hit major league pitching if his minor league numbers are any indication. But what would work is a platoon, he hits lefties well, so what the Braves need is a left-handed hitting catcher. If they can get that in a trade involving Gattis, then it would make sense
Flash Gordon
Do tell who this lefty hitting catcher is that a team would trade for Gattis? You could sign AJ Pierszynski and trade Gattis for some reasonable part.
Brv Rocks
I wrote a long post but it disappeared for some reason. Here is a shorter version. None of those options make a lot of sense for the braves. Weeks is worse than Uggla….and La Stella, Goose and Peraza are better than both of them. BJ can’t be dumped without the Braves paying his salary. Bourjos isn’t very good so I don’t know why the Braves would want him. Terdoslavich can’t play 3B. I do agree that Bethancourt hasn’t shown much at the major league level. IMO, the Braves should give Todd Cunningham a shot at the 4th OF role next year.
Lennie Briscoe
Terdoslavich is Ryan Doumit light…….has that possible power potential but that’s it. Strikes out a lot, slow and below average base runner, and is an absolute butcher with the glove when he’s playing somewhere other than 1B.
And the Braves thought so highly of Cunningham, they didn’t even bother to call him up in September even though he far outperformed Terdoslavich (who shouldn’t have been called up but was). He won’t get a shot unless the Braves literally find nothing on the FA/trade market for 4th OFs. Not disagreeing with you, just saying that’s what I think will happen.
Brv Rocks
I think one of the reasons that Wren/Manno lost their jobs was because of the fact that they sometimes refused to let certain players get a chance at the major league level. With them gone I am hopeful that Todd does finally get his chance.
Jeff McCoy
Bourjos is probably the best defensive CF in baseball. Whatever he can provide offensively is a bonus, though I agree that our huge lack of offense makes him a bad fit for us. If we can upgrade at another position (maybe 3B or 2B), I would love to have him patrolling CF.
Jeff McCoy
Yadier Molina started out as a defense only, light hitting catcher too, but he greatly improved offensively. He deserves a chance to prove he can do the same.
Brv Rocks
If you check the stats Molina was a MUCH better offensive catcher in the minors that Bethancourt. I’m also suspicious that Molina may have had some chemical “help” with his offense.
Jeff Jarlett
Terdo isn’t a third basemen at all. He makes Chris Johnson look like Terry Pendleton out there. Pendleton today would probably make a better 3b than Terdo. That said, Terdo’s bat is good enough to play in the bigs as a backup 1B/LF.
Jaysfan1994 2
Why do Brave fans think anyone’s willing to take B.J. Upton with him providing
-1.7WAR over the last two seasons? He’s almost in Dan Uggla territory when it comes to nobody wanting to touch him with that terrible contract.
Melvin Mendoza, Jr.
Mostly every Braves fan I’ve seen understands that if we want to trade him we are going to have to eat most of his contract or trade him for an equally bad one
Brv Rocks
The Braves will need to add a valuable asset with BJ in order to get the other team to take on some of his contract. Big payroll teams have done things like that in the past.
Flash Gordon
I’m never surprised at what the Braves accomplish but this team has issues. With their limited payroll being held hostage by Upton Sr., Uggla, Johnson and the multiple TJs killing their starting pitching depth it’s hard to see them getting into the playoffs.
LazerTown
A Heyward for Cueto deal would not work at all. Reds would have to throw several prospects in there, that’s an a cy young contender for a sub 0.750 ops right fielder.
slasher016 2
You mean the Braves would have to throw some prospects in there?
LazerTown
Yes. Both players are on one year deals now. Sure it would be great to be on Heyward’s long term potential, being that he is only 25, but for the next year Cueto is a much better player. And that’s not really a knock on Heyward, just that Cueto is an Ace.
Brv Rocks
As a Braves fan I would never trade Heyward for Cueto anyway. Heyward is a good hitter, great defender, great base runner and a team leader. The Braves need to keep him, not trade him.
LazerTown
He is a good player, but I just see the Reds liking their chances with Cueto. I think they would be best served though trading for prospects. Hard to continue when so many guys are free agents at end year.
Brv Rocks
Yeah, I see what you are saying. I don’t think either team makes that trade. IMO, the Braves would be more interested in trading Justin than Jason.
LazerTown
Reds were willing to play Choo in center for a whole year. Not sure they would be the prime candidates to pay the premium for Heyward’s defensive skills in a corner, especially when they now have billy in center.
I could see Upton making sense for them, just it wouldn’t be for Cueto. I don’t see them moving him unless they are giving up, maybe they would go for Latos.
Flash Gordon
Yeah, I agree, I just don’t put a lot of stock in the .750 ops argument. Heyward has skills that go beyond his OPS and playing half his games in Cincy would likely boost his power numbers. However like you said the deal makes no sense for Cincy. Neither of those players are signing long term in Cincy. If your the Reds you might as well roll with the ace for a year as that has more upside than one year of Heyward. If you can get cost controlled talent or prospects for Cueto fine. If not roll the dice as is and collect the draft picks at the end of the year.
LazerTown
Might I reference something I said 2 years ago.
Regarding QO:
“Not something I think is great. Upton at this point is really
someone who is not worth more than $10M aav, and wouldn’t want to also
lose a draft pick for him. I think this has the making of a disaster
contract, his defense is overrated, and he didn’t even get his obp over
.300.
I think he will get more money, but I think it will be a huge mistake.”
Brv Rocks
I said the same thing. Sadly, my Braves were the ones that made the huge mistake.
mikeq672
Everyone said that, except Frank Wren.
Flash Gordon
Lazertown you nailed it……except that 10 million aav. That was WAY to much in retrospect.
tomymogo
If I were Braves GM I would make 2 big trades first:
1. Evan Gattis and Jordan Walden to the Astros for Dexter Fowler, Jason Castro, Brad Peacock and Josh Fields.
2. Chris Johnson, BJ Upton, Anthony Varvaro and Justin Upton +20 million to the Mariners for Kyle Seager and Taijuan Walker.
I follow that up with extending Jason Heyward to 4 years x 60 million, and I also sign Michael Cuddyer from free agency for 2 years 22 million.
I would offer Santana arb, if he accepts I trade him for prospects
CT
Both trades are instant hang-ups, getting rid of BJ and CJ will have to involve swapping of bad contracts. There’s no chance Heyward signs for 15M/yr, 18-20M over 6 years is probably the minimum and he likely would get more on the open market.
tomymogo
Mariners tried to get Justin Upton before, I think having him and Robinson Cano would be very attractive, at the end of the year if they are unable to sign him long-term they can get back draft pick compensation. They also lack right handed power up and down the lineup, that’s why I thought Chris Johnson gives them some value.
And well BJ Upton may be pushing it a little but I am giving them 20 million to pay for his bad contract.
Regarding Heyward, I love the player, defensively he is amazing, but his bat hasn’t developed. Coming off a down year from what I expect he should be, could be a good opportunity to get him at a lower cost. That’s why I thought 15 million made sense.
LazerTown
Seager is a better player than Upton though because of the position he plays, and his close bat. And they control him for 3 more years, compared to 1 for Upton.
Flash Gordon
Kyle Seagar is more valuable than Justin Upton and Tijuan Walker is better than the rest of the package including the 20 million. The other trade makes not much sense for the Astros as Walden is an ok bullpen piece and Gattis is no better than Castro going forward overall. Also, Heyward is not signing for 4 and 60.
tomymogo
So to sum up trade Evan Gattis, Jordan Walden, Chris Johnson, BJ Upton, Anthony Varvaro and Justin Upton + 20 million for Dexter Fowler, Jason Castro, Brad Peacock, Josh Fields, Kyle Seager and Taijuan Walker.
Money wise they would trade 38.7 million – (20.0 million) = 18.7 million – Dexter Fowler 9 million – Jason Castro 3.9 million – Kyle Seager 4.0 million = 1.8 million freed up for 2015, but more money saved down the road and a much more competitive team IMO.
CT
That’s all fine a good but both teams have to agree to the trades, and there’s little chance that happens.
tomymogo
Yeah that’s true. I think it’s very difficult to find a trade partner for Justin Upton. The Yankees, Orioles and Mariners are the only one’s that came to mind.
Jon429
I think there are plenty of teams that would take JUp. Pretty much any team that sees themselves as possible contenders next year, and with the addition of the second wildcard team that’s like 80% of all teams in baseball.
paqza
I’d go so far as to say 28 or 29 teams in the game would prefer JUpton to at least one of their corner OF.
bdpecore
J. Upton would be easy to move. Where it gets complicated is when you try bundling him with bad contracts like BJ and Johnson. All this does is reduce the overall value of the Braves’ return.
LazerTown
And why are other teams giving their prospects up to take on bad contracts?
CT
That Medlen arbitration number is pretty steep for a guy coming off a 2nd TJ. I think a 1 year deal at 3M with an option for 7-10M (if he reaches certain benchmarks) could make sense.
LazerTown
He made $5.8MM this year, and nobody has ever had their salary decreased, that number is pretty reasonable. Can’t see why he would take that deal, he would be taking half the guaranteed money, and he is a free agent at end of year anyways.
Jon429
Arbitration salaries can be decreased but only to like 20% of what they made the previous year. That being said, I doubt the Braves even give Meds that. I’m sure they would love to have him back, but there’s no guarantee he’ll be ready even mid-season. They thought the same about Venters this past year and look what happened. Only way I see Medlen in a Braves uniform come Spring is a non-tender and resign with maybe an option attached, but as you said he’ll be a free agent in a year so why would he even agree to that.
LazerTown
And if he gets non-tendered then he is a free agent. So there no reason he needs to take that deal.
mikeq672
Id bet good money he doesnt make 5.8 million dollars this year.
CT
The Braves aren’t going through arbitration with Medlen. He either signs at a lower price and uses 2015 to show he’s healthy, or he gets non-tendered. I bet would take it to stay with the Braves, avoid being non-tendered and have a guaranteed contract for 2015. It’s a show-me contract like other pitchers coming off major injuries have gotten.
c
He may not even pitch in 2015, so he may want to take a deal with the Braves if he’s comfortable with how they’ve handled his rehabilitation process.
It’s important to note that salaries may only decrease by 20% as a result of an arbitration hearing, but a player may sign any contract to avoid arbitration. It could be a 500% decrease as long as he’s willing to sign the contract.
I think it would be prudent (assuming he wants to stay with the Braves) to work a deal similar to what CT mentioned. One-year with a very low salary and then an option year. I’d make a team, player, and mutual option. Say the team option is set at $7M for 2016, while the mutual option is set at $5M and the player option is $3M.
If he’s terrible or hurt all season, he takes the $3M player option and is glad he has a job paying great money. If he’s good to fantastic upon his return, the Braves get a deal at $7M. If he’s somewhere in between, there’s the mutual option. Works out for everyone.
-C
Brv Rocks
I’m pretty sure that Medlen will be non-tendered. There is no way the Braves play 5M+ for a pitcher that may never pitch at a high level again. Or, as you said, they may offer him a low cost deal with incentives.
Hodor
Braves send Gattis to Tampa Bay for Hellickson and one of our middle infielders, Rodriguez, Forsythe, Beckham, Figueroa, or Lee. Or if you’d prefer an OF, they could send either Jennings, Joyce, or DeJesus.
Brv Rocks
Don’t see the Braves having any interest in Hellickson at all…he’s kind of terrible. They are also stocked full of middle infield types. Gattis for a couple of really good prospects would be better.
Robert Joseph Cerasuolo
I would offer Tampa Elmer Reyes, Gattis Justin Upton and Minor for Matt Joyce and Evan Longoria. Then send Chris Johnson Kyle Wren BJ and Hale to the Cubs for Soler and Edwin Jackson. Then I would resign Bonofacio Harang and Santana move Beachy Medlen to Gwinnett for pitching depth and I’d sign Heyward to a 6 yr 99 million extension
bdpecore
Why would Tampa Bay want to take on additinal salary? Also you want to send two bad contracts while only taking one back and still expect them Cubs to give up Soler for Wren and Hale? This is wishful thinking even in fantasy baseball.
paqza
Not sure why either the Rays or the Cubs would make that trade at all. Longoria and Soler are cost-controlled guys with MVP ceilings.
DarthMurph
Bj Upton for the last two years of Albert Pujols’ contract seems fair and fare more plausible than any of these other scenarios.
LazerTown
They can take Arod.
JRD
I would offer Gattis and BJ to Seattle for a low end prospect. Then, use the savings in salary to attempt to extend both Justin and Heyward.
Brian C 2
The return on Gattis will be huge. One of the premiere power hitters in baseball and he’s cost controlled through his prime. Not another player in baseball that carries his potential value for cost. His defense behind the plate is overblown, he’s at least average, has a good arm and has a desire to improve. 29 teams will be interested if he’s dangled.
Phillyfan425
Depends on your definition of “huge”. Because if you look to a comparison, he’s Trumbo with an extra year. Trumbo got 2 mid-back rotation starters last winter (Hector Santiago and Tyler Skaggs). Also, his defense isn’t overblown. He had -4 DRS behind the plate last year and only caught 20% of potential base stealers. Those aren’t good numbers (no matter how much his “desire to improve” is). If you’re expecting back multiple top 100 prospects or 2-3 average MLB players, you’ll probably be disappointed.
Brian C 2
Most questioned the return the Angels got for Trumbo. But since he’s not a catcher, and not going through the prime of his career on a cost controlled contract, they aren’t similar enough for comparison. And the DRS statistic is only applicable if you understand it’s limitations and have watched/scouted enough to make a proper evaluation. If Atlanta isn’t getting quality prospects or big leaguers, they aren’t trading Gattis, simple as that. So the return will either be huge, or nothing at all.
Phillyfan425
Actually, most loved the return the Angels got for Trumbo (most questioned what the Diamondbacks gave up to get him). And Trumbo isn’t in the prime of his career on a controlled contract? (Gattis has 1 year of pre-arb before going to arbitration – Trumbo was traded going into his first year of arbitration). Gattis isn’t a good catcher – the same way Trumbo isn’t a good OFer. They both belong in the DH spot. DRS has limitations, but that doesn’t make it’s findings less valid. It just supports the idea that Gattis isn’t a good catcher and will probably need to be moved off the position – or be a detriment – before his arbitration years end.
Brv Rocks
He isn’t a very good defensive catcher at all. According to reports/tweets from local beat writers Ervin Santana and Mike Minor both said that they didn’t like throwing to him. Teheran and Gattis got into that staring match in the middle of a game.
I think only AL teams will be interested in him because he is a DH/back-up catcher. That being said, I do think he should bring back at least one top 100 prospect plus a bench player and relief prospect. If he goes to the AL and is used as a DH he could hit 30+ home runs next year and will make league minimum.
paqza
He could likely play 1B well enough to carry his bat, too. I know I’d much rather have Gattis than Cuddyer even though he’d be far more expensive, prospects-wise.
bdpecore
“Not another player in baseball that carries his potential value for cost”. Jonathan Lucroy offers similar value due to his team friendly extension ($14.25M over the next 3 seasons) while providing 6.7 WAR in 2014 versus 2.2 WAR for Gattis. Lucroy also is considered elite when it comes to framing pitches and provides above average defense something Gattis does not.
Brian C 2
Lucroy is definitely a great player. I should have added the caveat that Gattis is potentially available. Certainly if guys like Kershaw, Trout, or some other elite young player became available, they would carry more value. As for Gattis, if you are a rival talent evaluator looking to upgrade your team with players available on the market, Gattis is the one who would have potential to be a ‘game changing’ acquisition because of his cost & control related to potential.
mikeq672
Technically you were still right, Gattis isnt even arbitration eligible next year. Comparing 500k to 5 million gives Gattis the clear edge.
tomymogo
Another course of action for ATL would be this:
Trade Evan Gattis to the Astros or Rays, for prospects. Keep Justin Upton.
Trade BJ + cash to the Cubs for Edwin Jackson.
Sign Aoki from free agency.
Sign Aaron Harang
Call up Kyle Kubitza and Jose Peraza
Sign a backup catcher.
Call up Todd Cunningham.
paqza
At the same time, though, Gattis is one of the few guys in that lineup, along with Freeman and JUpton, you know is definitely going to produce offensively. Who do you get to replace his offense?
petrie000
why would the Cubs want a player who’d be useless every day instead of every 5th day for 1 more year than Ejax with a reputation as a problem child to boot? We’re all full up in the outfield as it is.
Unless the Braves are throwing in enough cash to make Upton cheaper than Jackson or a prospect to make it worth the Cubs while to waste a roster space in the short term it’s a pointless deal for the Cubs… and given the price to make it happen, a pointless deal for the Braves as well.
Vandals Took The Handles
The Upton brothers follow the Young brothers (Dimitri and Delbert) in having a world of talent, being fawned over and making a lot of money. And for a year or two every now and then, they produce some. Some GM’s think that’s the start of something big – but it never is.
Brv Rocks
Every now and then I see a comment like this and I just shake my head. Justin is about ten times more valuable than his brother. They are NOTHING alike. They don’t even look alike. They only thing they share is the same last name.
Vandals Took The Handles
I see….
You think Justin is a middle of the order productive player that anchors a teams offense? The DBacks waited for years for him to do it. The Braves got something, but not at all what they expected for the cost. I’d guess that the Justin trade had quite a bit to do with the GM losing his job.
Brv Rocks
Justin IS a middle of the order hitter. 29 home runs, 102 RBI, 133 wRC+, 3.9 WAR. Most any team in baseball would LOVE to have him. That trade was a STEAL for the Braves and is one of the reasons Towers is no longer a GM. On the other hand, BJ has negative value,
bdpecore
Maybe Towers wasn’t paying attention in 2011 when he was 4th in MVP voting ahead of players like Pujols, Votto and Tulowitzki. He is definitely considered a middle of the order bat by all 30 teams.
paqza
There’s probably about 28 or 29 teams in baseball who’d take Upton over what they’ve got – the Marlins might not.
Overbrook
With bullpens being the new vogue and thus overvalued, Braves should trade bullpen pieces at premium prices. They could dangle Heyward for someone like Quintana. some smart moves could turn this team into a contender quickly, although they lack depth.