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Email a copy of 'Astros To Acquire Ken Giles' to a friend
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TheMichigan
Brett olberholtzer? The heck
rob361
Hes decent, he can eat innings
jakesaub
Smart decision by the Phillies, no need to hang onto a young closer in this reliever market.
184729
Why, blue jays need to get a pieace of all theae trades
ThorsHammer34
Get used to it, Shapiro/Atkins combo love to watch from the sidelines. That’s all they did in Cleveland.
JT19
What do they have to trade? They almost gutted the farm with the moves they made last year.
Mark 20
Gutted the farm system? The blue jays still have Pompey (top 100 prospect), 1st round pick Harris, Reid-Foley, Pentecost (another 1st round pick) as well as young guys in Devon Travis and others.
jedihoyer
yeah thats like 1 package. and they arent trading their starting 2b. so its rather underwhelming. as you can see first round picks just arent worth as much as prospects in the upper minors.
mlbagent
Blue Jays farm system is depleted. Look at their rotation, they can’t afford to deal Jon Harris. And lots in baseball view him as a reliever longterm. And don’t forget the whole college fast track concept doesn’t apply with Harris who got shelled in his pro debut.
Pentecost has value with Catching position around baseball a mess, but he missed all of 2015. Simply, Jays system is depleted & needs to be restocked.
SabermetricsForLife
Good job ‘Stros! Who is the last prospect?
philtheez
Derek Fisher. Ugh
degeneration nation
D Fish could turn into a stud and move through the minors quickly. Went 20-30 in A ball and played well in the AFL. Nice add for Phils
A'sfaninUK
Fisher and one more prospect….wow this is just like the Kimbrel package.
tankadelphia
one station is reporting the last prospect is derek fisher
tom brunanskys black sock
Solid point guard
lastros
Can they turn around and trade him to the Rockets?
bringoutthegimp
No Bobby Fisher! Checkmate!
Juansbz
AL west is definitely the most COMPETITIVE division of all
Brixton
What about the NL Central?
Overbrook
NL Central = most overrated division. 40% of that division isn’t even trying to win. That equals inflated records.
Juansbz
Yes, that’s why I put COMPETITIVE and not the BEST
southbeachbully
Only 5 teams in the NL Central had 90+ wins. 3 of those 5 came from the NL Central and they had the 3 best W/L records. How are they not the most competitive divisions. While we can say that the Brewers and Reds are in rebuild mode we can absolutely, without equivocation, say the same for the Rockies and Padres in the West and the Phillies and Braves in the East.
southbeachbully
I meant there were 5 teams in the NL with 90+ wins…..
A'sfaninUK
An excellent, top 75 MLB SP prospect, a reclamation project SP and the Astros 1st rd draft pick from 2014. Pretty good, but after AZ’s package today almost all other packages are going to look light. I think I’d rather have Boston’s package for Kimbrel than this, but I guess both are almost equal when you take into the slight risk with Giles, who hasn’t been good as long.
southbeachbully
Who’s the reclamation SP?
southbeachbully
Oh I miss read it. Oberholtzer
Brixton
Phillies go with Nola, Velasquez, Eickoff, Hellickson and Oberholtzer as the rotation to start, along with Morgan, Thompson and Eflin by midseason.
Bullpen should look something like Araujo, Otero, Hernandez, Russell, Gomez, Garcia and Hinojosa.
A'sfaninUK
That bullpen makes me sad.
So very, very sad…
Brixton
The upside is actually pretty good, but it could get ugly… really ugly..
Atleast we have Jimmy Cordero to look forward too out there. He can touch 103.
SabermetricsForLife
What are you expecting from your team this year? Embrace the abysmal for 2-3 years. You get great draft picks as a result.
Brixton
The Phillies were really bad last year because of that rotation — headlined by Aaron Harang, Sevy Gonazalez, Jerome Williams, Kevin Corriea, Alec Asher, David Buchanan, o’Sullivan and Billingsly. That cast of charactors combined for 104 starts last year. The lowest ERA of the bunch was Harang’s 4.86. Everyone else’s was over 5.
This year they have a full year of Nola, Eickoff, Velasquez, and top prospect Thompson should debut at some point.
jedihoyer
they were really bad because of a lot more than the rotation, they are still going to be giving consistent ab’s to ryan howard, carlos ruiz, and the crap infield other than franco.
R.D.
I expect better years from both the Braves and Phillies this year. More time being given to talented young mlb ready players will do both teams good.
phillyphanatic819
Don’t forget about matt harrison when he gets healthy
Brixton
Its very unlikely he pitches much this year. He has major injuries still.
No Soup For Yu!
Not when, but if.
No Soup For Yu!
I’d argue that Morgan has just as much of a chance at a rotation spot as Oberholtzer, if not more. Neither pithcer was overly impressive last year.
James7430
I agree. Morgan’s wheels will eventually fall off I’m afraid. He may be better suited in the bullpen than as a SP.
Brixton
I actually expect Morgan to get better. Last year was his first year off TJ. He was a former top prospect for the Phillies. I think he can be a 30 start a year, ERA under 4-type.
James7430
I hope so. He could end up being the odd man out though, which would necessitate a move to the bullpen or elsewhere. That’s a good problem to have though. Better than trotting out Sean O’Sullivan, Kyle Kendrick, or the likes every fifth day.
oofa
It is sad to see Giles go. Hopefully Cordero is the real deal.
cxcx
I certainly hope not. Why would the Phillies burn control over Velasquez when they aren’t competitive when they could just start him at AAA? Makes zero sense.
jb19
Great trade Astros. All three were expendable… Immediate improvement to the ML roster, for both teams, plus Derek Fisher to the Phils system.
I’m glad we held onto AJ Reed.
sflomenb
Sounds horrible for the Phillies 🙁
Brixton
Its not terrible. Velasquez has pretty good potential. He definitely has more potential than Nola or Eickoff does.
Oberholtzer… well… hes a backend starter/ LH reliever. Nothing special, but servicable.
Fisher has a really good bat and can really run. Hes nothing special defensively (from what I read), but definitely a high-upside bat.
Phillies are getting a 4th player though, so theres that.
gibbs58
Where are the numbers that show he definitely has more potential than Nola? Plus, Nola’s upside is a 2, VV’S is a 3, and considering he hasn’t pitched 2 full season’s worth over the past 6 years, I don’t see that either. I hope I’m wrong.
Matt St.
An additional bonus with Fisher is that he is a local kid. Reading is practically home for him.
dejota
Seems like a win win, especially if Velasquez or Olby do well and can be flipped.
LH
If Velasquez does well he’ll be held onto. But yeah I agree it’s a win win.
koldjerky
Why would the Phillies flip these guys when they have years of control yet? Giles was a luxury, these guys will be a part of the future (hopefully).
dejota
Both of their ceilings is MoR if they are pitching well I think the Phils would be wise to trade them at peak value. I’m an Astros fan and that’d what the three known pieces are in my eyes.
formerlyz
This looks like a great deal for the Phillies. Still, Houston did get 4 years of Giles, with a couple of years at the league minimum. I like what Philly has done in the last few months
James7430
Actually it’s 5 years. Through 2020.
rob361
Prospects man, prospects. They come they go.
rob361
When luhnow gives up on prospects you know whats up! :p i like this deal! The Astros needed a closer asap.
philly435
The Phillies made out incredibly well here
Brixton
2012 the Phillies we had Victorino and Pence
2013 we had Hamels and Lee
2014 we had Hamels, Lee, Utley, Byrd and Papelbon
2015 we had Byrd, Papelbon, Hamels, Utley, Rollins, Revere and Giles
Who are Phillies fans going to make fantasy trade proposals about this year? J Hellickson? ew
stoi
Fisher being included in this trade makes this look awesome for the Phillies!
Brixton
It does look awesome, plus theres a fourth guy. If hes anything of significance, that would be a huge win-win by both sides. Its a win-win either way,
swiftymcswifts20
kudos to the Phils, these are the moves you need to be making
Weighed
I would try to steal Tyler White. #30 prospect but from what I hear, he will be the gun for Houston.
Matt Galvin
Other Prosoect coming from Astros.
koldjerky
Who is the 4th!?!?
coldgoldenfalstaff
Seems a ton to give up, but a hard thrower is a need and he’s locked up for a long time. At least we didn’t give up McCullers.
Hate to see Fisher go, Eventually he’s going to be a solid contact bat in the bigs.
bobo678
looks like a fair trade for both sides…..I hate to see 100 miles giles go he just turned 25 and is lights out with 5 years control let….looks like a fair trade for both sides though
southbeachbully
The price for a dominant closer is really, really high. I see why Cashman is at least fielding offers for Miller.
I’m not sure if I would like this deal for the Astros. If Velasquez becomes a front of rotation SP then you’ve effectively traded 6 years of his service for 4 years of a closer. Add to the fact that last year was kind of a “flukey” year for the Astros and maybe this was a bit presumptive for them to make a move like this. Maybe they feel they have a brief window of opportunity with the Rangers and Angels not really separating themselves from the pack?
gobraves46
Wow. No offense to Giles, but the Astros majorly over paid on this one. I feel like they could have gotten Fernandez with a package centered around Velasquez, Appel, and fisher, (albeit a fair amount more would have been needed). Meanwhile the Phillies all of a sudden have one of the best farm systems in baseball now, expecting to see a rotation with Nola, Appel, Velasquez, and Jake Thompson at some point this year.
dieharddodgerfan
Yeah, Nola, Appel and Velasquez could make for a very good 1-2-3 in a few years. About the time when the free agency market will be ripe for big spenders like the Phillies.
The Phillies are doing a nice job of rebuilding.
rob361
Appel was a dud. one of those picks you REGRET getting and are so ashamed of you trade him away. All astros needed was a good closer.
gobraves46
Yes, Appel has struggled. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t still have value, He finished the year a lot better than he started. also, because he was a good college pitcher, he is a pretty polished prospect, and is still close to big league ready. Wait until he’s actually set foot in the big league before you call him a “dud” or a bust
raykraft88
So maybe Appel isn’t Kershaw, but sometimes these guys end up way more valuable than they seem. Check out Wade Davis 3 years as a starter (never had an ERA under 4 and WHIP over 1.3) in comparison to his 3 years as a reliever (under 2.50 ERA).
baseball-reference.com/players/d/daviswa01.shtml
MaineBaseball
Appel too?
dieharddodgerfan
So the Phillies get two possible pieces of their future rotation in Velasquez and Appel for a very good reliever? Wow, that’s a good trade for them!
DannyQ3913
The Phils robbed the Astros, this is beautiful deal for Philly!
TJECK109
The Phillies pick up 3 young SPs in this deal… Wow
flyerzfan12
Jonathan Arauz is actually a really good young SS prospect, he’s not just some throw-in. I don’t like seeing him included in the deal, but still like this deal for both sides. Astros get a young, top tier closer with 6 years of control and the Phillies continue to add pitching depth to their system.
PhilliesFan012
Idk if I like arauz being part of it but I guess that tells us they are gonna be all on with Crawford, and if he doesn’t I’ll be devastated. But snagging Velasquez and Appel are great adds and if Crawford pans out then this deal is a great one for philly, even if oberholtzer and Velasquez turn in to shut down relievers.
flyerzfan12
I don’t like losing Arauz either but he’s so far away anyway that they could draft another young SS or sign another young international SS that would be on the same track this summer. He’s got a ton of upside, but is far enough away that he can be replaced. I’d rather he not have been included, but I like the return.
PhilliesFan012
If he doesn’t pan out ***
A'sfaninUK
Five players traded for a relief pitcher, what a time to be alive.
A'sfaninUK
Oops, missed the part about Arauz – wish I could edit my posts but this new format doesn’t allow it.
rusignola
Grammar error — should be “Astros’ second best prospect” not “Astro’s second best prospect”.
R.D.
The nats and mets are in the midst of clearing out their farms with promotions and here come the braves and Phillies looking to duke it out in a few years.
Oh yeah and the Marlins are somewhere.
jabmets
Mets pitching in the minors is much thinner but a slew of position players is on the way. Amed Rosario, Dilson Herrera, Dominic smith, nimmo, bacerra. Oh and if Murphy signs elsewhere mets will get an extra pick barring them signing a big time free agent. 2 picks in first 30 not bad. Also if mets sign cespedes they don’t have to use a pick.
A'sfaninUK
Its funny that in all of their title seasons the Giants were mocked because they basically only had one elite position player and one elite pitcher. The Marlins have one elite position player and one elite pitcher, they have about the same chance of winning a title as the Giants did in those previous years.
greatd
The Giants are fundamentaly sound
and have decent guys through out their line up.
raef715
would love to find out what happened with Fisher; heard great things about J. Arauz this year but oh well.
now, do the Phils have a coach who can bring the best out of Appel?
if not, it’s still a deal where the Phils got a lot of parts they can use, while the Astros gave up parts that werent critical to their future success to get a closer who will be.
tac3
my guess is the Phillies took Goddell in the rule 5 draft, picking him over Fisher. Fisher’s numbers come out of a hitters friendly league, so the numbers are inflated by most experts opinions. I can seee that. Maybe they went back tot the table after the rule 5,. If not, ehhh phillies get a #1 draft pick for an out of nowhere closer. Appel could turn it around. I hope he’s not a headcase like Jesse Biddle is.
bobbycurls
like the trade for both teams. Appel looks like a bust so keeping Fisher and getting Arauz is a big coup for the ‘Stros. But regardless, Phillies should feel good.
scottaz
This is the second trade in a week involving a No. 1 – 1 Draft Pick.. The D’backs took major heat and ridicule for including Dansby Swanson in the trade for Shelby Miller. This trade sheds some light on the value placed on prospects, and particularly on No. 1 – 1 Draft Pick prospects. Everybody assumes that 1 – 1 prospects are future superstars. But this trade of Appel once again proves that assumption is flawed. A 1 – 1 is not a 1 – 1 is not a 1 – 1, they are not all the same. Different drafts are rated good, bad, deep, top heavy, etc. in defense of the D’backs, the 2015 draft was considered a weak one, with no superstar at the top. Maybe the Braves didn’t totally fleece the D’backs after all?
Brixton
D’Backs got fleeced because Inciarate might have more value than Miller alone.
Appel hasn’t produced and he could really benefit from a change of team.
dylanp5030
While you have a point there, I think the argument is more that they could’ve got a much better player than Shelby Miller for that package. Two years ago if the Astros traded Appel, they would’ve been crucified.
Maybe Swanson doesn’t pan out and the trade looks Okay for Arizonr then. But as of right now, it looks like a steal for Braves.
greatd
Appel’s numbers in the minors don’t impress.
Although he could drastically change.
Not a control guy or a high strike out guy.
He seems to be a 3-4 starter at best.
They probably saw him enough to give him up.
Swanson on the other hand hasn’t seen any pro action yet.
The fans probably wanted to see him play a bit.
Can’t blame the Arizona fans for being upset as well.
Towers traded away Upton / Cook / Parker / Bauer for nothing
They traded away 32 war to get 13 back during his reign.
firstbleed
Don’t forget Adam Eaton.
Ray Ray
Why is everyone convinced that Appel is a bust? He hasn’t even had a chance to prove himself in the majors and everyone is already writing him off. He is still a top 100 prospect. There have been guys in the past that outperformed their minor league numbers once they reached the big leagues. Getting a guy with the talent of Appel along with everything else for nothing but a reliever is just silly good.
phillysports215
I know right. They should go on baseball reference and see Ken Giles minor league numbers lmao not as bad as Appels but they aren’t good either.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
Because he has done NOTHING since getting drafted first overall
Ray Ray
He was drafted first overall 2 years ago not 6 years ago. This is not the NBA, 1st overall picks are not going to help you immediately.
J32
That wasn’t the point, he’s hardly impressed in the minors also. Stuff is reportedly still pretty good, but mediocre results thus far, I know he’s in the PCL, but even the K/BB numbers don’t point to anything special
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
I never said they would. But Mark Appel has done nothing in the minors since being drafted. If some guy drafted in the 10th round were to post the exact same results as Appel over the last 2 and a half years they would be seen as a non-prospect.
Ray Ray
Well obviously people in the know disagree with you because he is still the #43 prospect in the entire minor leagues. And a guy in the 10th round wouldn’t be rushed like Appel was either.
AndThisGameBelongsToMySanDiegoPadres
He is only ranked that high because he was drafted first overall. It takes a while to slide down the prospect boards after being taken that high.
dswaim
I wonder what Jeurys Familia’s return would be in this market?
gooberz
I still can’t believe even before the accusations, why the bumbling reds couldn’t get more for aroldis Chapman.
I guess When the rest of the national league thinks you’re a bunch of bumbling idiots, you get the middle finger. Why the reds won’t get a fresh body to gm, is beyond me. This Dick Williams guy is nothing but a pawn.
Chapman would bring a kings ransom if he was with any other team.