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By Jeff Todd | at
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halos101
Is it safe to say yet that the dbacks should be embarrassed about the Miller-Swanson trade?
Jorge Soler Powered
No, not until Swanson has actually done anything in the bigs.
southi
Seems you are forgetting Aaron Blair and Ender Inciarte too. It is very early but there are more factors involved in determining value besides just Miller and Swanson.
Ray Ray
Well considering Aaron Blair has been worse (or at least, as bad) than Shelby Miller this year, he probably doesn’t count for much just yet. Inciarte is not exactly setting the world on fire either.
chesteraarthur
This just isn’t true. Blair has been bad, but Miller has been a dumpster fire.
theo2016
How Swanson pans out isn’t relevant. They gave up way too much value, value that could have been used for multiple upgrades.
Ray Ray
Value is a 100% subjective term. What is valuable to one team is not to another. For example, the Rockies might not value a young pitcher with a great curve ball as highly as the Red Sox due to the lack of break in high altitude. The Red Sox might not value a speedy left fielder due to playing in the smallest left field in the league, but the Rockies would value him significantly higher due to their immense outfield.
The Diamondbacks took three pieces that they didn’t deem necessary for their team and got one piece that they did deem necessary. The people that run the Diamondbacks are not really idiots. Dave Stewart knows baseball and especially his team a whole lot better than you and me combined. Yeah it looks like the trade might be a mistake, but it has just been two months. You can’t accurately judge a trade until several years down the line.
Math&Baseball
Since Aaron Blair has pitched as badly as Miller has it’s a sunk cost at this point. For instance, they could have kept Blair to get the same production, have Inciarte to cover for the Pollock injury, and still have Swanson. They could also look to improve during the trade deadline by shopping Swanson for whatever they need.
Since the Braves just have Miller and not Inciarte or Swanson it’s a loss for the Dbacks at this point.
Lance
Ray is correct. Different needs. Plus, it sometimes takes a while to judge a trade, FA signing or draft pick. Will Swanson be a stud or a dud? Who knows? Maybe Miller comes back off the DL and turns it around.
davidcoonce74
Other front offices would have given up more than Shelby Miller for the package the D-Backs were offering, according to multiple sources. So, in that sense, the trade was definitely a loss for Arizona. Comparing Blair, who is a rookie starter going through the normal pains of being a rookie, to Miller, who is a veteran pitcher is a bad comp.
jkunkle
For the same 3 players, they could have probably gotten Gray, Garrett Richards, Carrasco, Salazar, Matz, Tyson Ross, heck maybe even Chris Archer. Thats where the Dbacks messed up. Could have gotten a much better piece than Miller. But as a Braves fan, im glad they went with Miller.
chesteraarthur
It never takes time to judge a trade. That is just using hindsight. Evaluation of trades should be done at the time they are made, with the information available at that time.
If you want to argue that maybe arizona has some information about miller t hat the rest of the world doesn’t, that makes sense. However, after getting miller and breaking him, it’d seem that they were probably just wrong and overpaid like everyone said they did.
Niekro
Why do people say this? none of those pitchers were for sale this is not a super market you can not buy stuff that is not for sale this isn’t a video game.
chesteraarthur
Pretty sure the indians had discussions with the cubs about carrassco/salazar, so I’m not sure how true that is.
And even if you are right, and they were not, then the dbacks should have just kept their pieces. They did not need to overpay for a pitcher.
jkunkle
Most teams would listen if Arizona would have come to them with that package, Everyone (Including Trout, and Kershaw) can be had for the right package.
Niekro
No GM changes his plans on the whim of a trade offer with the exception of maybe Preller, those teams were all set on contending trading their best pitcher was not going to happen, and the Indians came out and said they are not moving any of their cost controlled pitchers. You think you are smarter than La Russa and Stewart but you aren’t you have to have a huge ego to think they didn’t check around first.
jkunkle
I dont think I’m smarter than Stewart, although I do believe he is the least qualified GM in baseball. I do believe the Rays would have listened and maybe worked something out if the Dbacks offered the same package for Archer. Its how they have to do business.
Metsfan93
If they checked around, and that was the asking price for Shelby Miller-types, then they should’ve stood pat and kept Inciarte. Miller was never worth this type of haul from the getgo. Have you listened to Dave Stewart? I do not think it’s at all a stretch to believe a lot of people are smarter than him. His comments on Miller – “The guy was traded for Jason Heyward just last year, and he’s gonna get 200 million, so I think we got a good deal” – and others are asinine. How he values draft picks as nothing and then says they can’t upgrade because they need to save prospects is contradictory. They shelled out too much of their prospect capital for Jean Segura and Shelby Miller, and now they’re stuck, and that’s their own fault. Greinke was an overpay, although a deal I don’t blame them for making too much since he’s an actual bona-fide ace. Miller was a disastrous trade, Segura was a mediocre one, and the Arroyo/Touissant deal was dumb too, IMO. I absolutely don’t think they checked around too much. If they came calling the Mets and offered that deal or something similar for Matz, I’d think the Mets would’ve bit at it, and I would not have been upset. I’d rather have Matz for the next few years than Miller.
hojostache
I doubt the Mets would have taken that deal for Matz, as they loved his stuff and he is a lefty. That doesn’t take away from the fact it was an extreme overpay for Miller, whom I wouldn’t have traded straight up for Matz last year, let alone this year. Miller is who he is…..a solid #3. It’s a shame that he is going to be dogged for years to come about not living up to a top end #2 package.
theo2016
To the guy who said teams value players differently, of course they do. However the total value of the package is not just what each player means to a team at the ml level, as assets have an essential defined value. You can use the acquired assets in a package for something you value more at the ml level. Dave Stewart’s comment after the deal said it all. They heard the marlins offer for fernandez, got the braves on the phone and went with that, they didn’t shop around this package. It certainly would have netted them blake snell and Alex Cobb.
One Fan
Dave Stewart knows baseball you say? Hahaha
joedirte4life
I hope the Braves go after Ramos but who knows they probably will sign a pitcher to be the catcher, and they will have a pitcher be 3rd base and a pitcher be the bat boy and a pitcher will be the pop corn vender.
stymeedone
You forgot to say that those pitchers will have gone thru TJ surgery.
BoldyMinnesota
It’s not gibby’s fault that his team is underperforming this year. He has about two relievers he can trust and ones a rule 5 pick.
Metsfan93
Think the bit on Ramos should say 21 K, 13 BB not the other way around.