Email a copy of 'Rockies Interested In Extension For Carlos Gonzalez' to a friend
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By Steve Adams | at
Email a copy of 'Rockies Interested In Extension For Carlos Gonzalez' to a friend
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JFactor
4/80 would be plenty fair
KillahAC
Trade him to the Red Sox. Perfect DH.
Cam
Why? He still has value in the field. The Red Sox need the DH spot in the future for the likes of Sandoval and Ramirez.
A'sfaninUK
Every time someone mentions the A’s being cheap and always trading stars for prospects, I always think of how much Cargo would have helped them from 2012-14 and shudder about how dumb it was for them to trade a prospect for a star player, and wish people never said that dumb thought.
dutch1008
They really do not have a hole at Catcher. Tony Wolters is fantastic behind the dish and slashed .321/.374/.488 in the 2nd half. Tom Murphy destroyed the PCL last year. Nobody thinks he’s Johnny Bench behind the plate but scouts believe he has enough skill to play there. While the sample is small he has slashed .266/.341/.608 across his 1st 32 MLB games.
Jeff Bridich’s wish list will be 1B, the bullpen and perhaps a back end SP to buy some more development time for Jeff Hoffman and German Marquez.
g55s
Why would he want to stay on a team that will never win? Seems like a LOT of teams would pay him more than fair.
JFactor
Maybe he likes it there? He is a person after all, he may have his own reasons and motivations
A'sfaninUK
Yes, like a career 1.008 OPS at Coors vs .750 OPS away from Coors.
As much as I rued the A’s trading him, he really isn’t a superstar, he’s more of a Coors mirage-types.
astrosfan4life
I’ve always viewed him as a slightly above average player who is a “star” because of the Coors Field factor. His home/road splits are very telling. Either way, I’d be willing to see if I am wrong and have him in Astros uniform.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
7 years 80mil. Why didn’t he want more? He could have gotten 180mil
stl_cards16 2
No he couldn’t have. He wasn’t a Free Agent.
ChaplinBaseball
It’s hard to predict he will accept an extension since the market is very friendly in compensation terms… 70-30 % chances that he fulfills this year and have a breakout season… which will put him in a very nice 2017 FA class.
Lance
take him out of Coors and he’s a very mediocre player.
JFactor
How can you possibly know that?
My assumption is that you are basing this off of his road numbers. That’s not sufficient evidence to draw such a conclusion.
dorfmac
Well, if we are talking about his performance away from Coors, and we aren’t allowed to base these opinions off of his road numbers, what exactly should we be referencing…?
Z-A 2
Exactly. It’s not like he has 50 ABs on the road. 522 Games at Home, 521 Games Away. .323 BA @ home vs .258 BA Away.
JFactor
The point is that you can’t know what he is as a hitter for another team because Rockies hitters are the worst road hitters (collectively) by a huge margin. Because there are huge disparities in what it takes to adjust to and from Colorado on a weekly basis.
Some hitters hit way better after leaving Colorado than they did as a Rockie on the road (Walker, Holliday) some are the same, some are worse.
The point is that it hasn’t proven as any frame work or what sort of hitter someone is going to be after leaving the Rockies.
You can’t look at his road numbers and say that’s the sort of hitter he is going to be if he played elsewhere
Lance
Walker and Holliday never produced elsewhere what they produced for the Rocks. We’ve seen what Tulo has done,. He was a 299 hitter for Colorado and a 320 hitter at Coors,. Only 250 since leaving for Canada on a team loaded with good hitters,. Matt hit 20 points higher for Colorado than he did for STL. Walker hit 60 points higher than for STL and Mon. Then let’s talk about Dante Bichette, Andres Gallaraga, Vinnie Castlla and Ellis Burks! CarGo is great—-for Colorado. But no reason for any other team to give up a lot of talent for a guy who is a ,260 hitter outside Coors.
JFactor
This is entirely my point.
Matt Holiday as a road hitter from 2004-2008 while a Rockie hit .280/.348/.455 – .348 wOBA, 108 wRC+
Since leaving Colorado, Holliday has hit a combined .292/.379/.490 – .377 wOBA, 139 wRC+
You can’t judge Rockies players based on their home/road splits because as a whole, their road numbers are artificially suppressed, just like their home numbers are great.
No Rockies players hit well on the road outside of a season here (Blackmon this year) or there.
Larry Walker is the only player above a 125 wRC+ career road hitter as a Rockie (131). And as good as he was as a road hitter for them, he was still a career 140 wRC+ even with spending so many years as a Rockie (he likely learned to handle the adjustment of the travel and movements and conditions).
Basically, ever Rockies hitter is better after they leave Colorado than their road numbers (Tulo is in fact one of the only exceptions who is actually been worse – I speculate injuries are a bigger issue) and Justin Morneau who actually hit better on the road than he did at home for them.
My point is you can’t use home/road splits for Rockies players. It’s not enough information.
Lance
I don’t understand how Matt’s road numbers as a Rok were “artificially supressed”. His home numbers at Coors, like so many others, ARE artificially inflated. Same for CarGo and so many others as I’ve pointed out. Castilla, Walker, Helton, etc put up Hall of Fame type numbers with Colorado. Holliday had a decent career with STL but nothing to compare with his years in Denver. So why should any team give up a lot of talent for Carlos when history shows he’s not going to be the player he was? There IS plenty of information available based on the players I’ve mentioned,.
JFactor
There has been plenty of evidence to support the challenges of hitting on the road as a Rockie and adjusting to the differences in ball movement, air, etc. This isn’t new information.
Look who the worst road hitting team in all of baseball is since 1993 when the Rockies showed up
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&…
It’s them by a good margin.
.240/.306/.379
Basically, as a team, they hit like Leonys Martin. You can’t judge them based on their road numbers. There is more to it than that.
Every hitter hits awesome in Colorado as a home player. No team expects him to hit like that when he leaves. But he also isn’t as bad as his road numbers.
2017 Cargo in another uniform is probably a .280/.330/.475 hitter.
Better than his career road numbers, not as good as his career home numbers or overall raw numbers. This is 20-30 home runs. He isn’t a bad ball player, but not worth mortgaging your farm for either. He can hit 40 home runs in Coors. And so could Michael Saunders.
brewcrewontherise
Cargo is no mediocre player. Obviously everyone who hits in coors is going to have home/road splits. But 40 homers is no joke, even there. He’s a well above average player no matter where you play him.
astros_fan_84
He’d be great for the Astros. A Gonzalez for AJ Reed deal could be interesting. By interesting, I mean highly controversial for both sides. Reed could be a dud, but CarGo could get hurt.
gojira15
That makes a lot of sense. Astros wouldn’t have to add much for this to be fair.
I wonder if Colorado isn’t bluffing a bit. Maybe the trade market for Cargo hasn’t been to their liking and they are trying to create bargaining leverage by saying they want to extend him. Then again, the Rockies love extending their star players.
theo2016
add? cargo ain’t cheap money wise. it’s prolly an overpay by the Astros.
gojira15
I think Reed’s stock took a minor hit with his ML failure this past year. He’s also too large to play anywhere but 1B. Colorado needs a 1B, true, but one-prospect-for-one-star swaps are rare. The closest example I can think of is Brett Lawrie for Shaun Marcum before 2011.
Z-A 2
Most HRs outside of Coors Field is at Chase Field – so DBacks? Otherwise, it’s best for his career if he just stays in Coors.
timyanks
i smell a sign and trade
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
That doesn’t happen in baseball. It would be more like trade then sign his new team would work out the extension. He’s 31. He has two years left on his current deal. So the acquiring team would have to give him minimum 4 years and 80-88mil. Maybe an option for a 5th year and possible opt out.
Soxman81
The Rockies sure are stupid. You don’t need Cargo. He’s no longer in his prime. You have alternatives at his position. TRADE HIM!
You should have after 2015 when his value was at its peak.
Except….. you’re the Rockies, so you have this strange loyalty to players that have helped you win exactly nothing. Year after year you finish in 4th or 5th place of a division that even the lowly Padres have won in the recent past.
Get younger. Get better. Build around Story, Gray, etc. You traded Tulo and haven’t missed him at all, it’s time for Cargo to go as well.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
You do know he’s in his prime right now don’t you? Or do you think his prime only lasted 3 years?
Lance
each player is different of course but typically, the “prime” years for a baseball player are between 26-31. there is historically a big drop for players after 31. Griffey, Mantle, Mathews, Texiera, Snider, Andrew Jones are classic examples. Of course, there are those exceptions like Bonds, Aaron, Ruth, ARod and Mays whose “primes” lasted long past 31.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
A-Rod = cheater
Bonds = cheater
Habk Aaron averaged only 45ish hrs a year and stayed healthy. He’s the HR King.
Mantle couldn’t stay sober.
CarGo is still productive and will be for 4-5 more years.
Lance
Hank was hitting 44hr’s each year….Carlos only hit as many as 40 HR’s once. He’ll probably be productive so long as he is in Denver but never Aaron productive. But he could also drop off the wall like Johnny Callison.