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By Connor Byrne | at
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dwilson10
The O’s should make a move for Odorizzi. I know they might not want to make a trade within their own division but he would be a huge upgrade over Jimenez in the rotation. A rotation of Tillman, Gausman, Bundy, Odorizzi, and Miley would be pretty solid. Maybe they’d start the offer around Mancini, sense he is blocked in Baltimore for 2-3 years with Trumbo resigning.
chesteraarthur
they don’t have what is required to trade for him
kiermaier
and what would Baltimore offer? Their farm system is laughable, the rays would hang up the phone right away if O’s asked for Odorizzi.
dwilson10
Typical homer fan overvaluing their own teams players. Now I’m not saying he’ll be cheap but he won’t get a huge haul. Probably 1 top 100 prospect but almost every team in the MLB has a good enough farm system to get Odorizzi.
jmi1950
Rays should wait until June and hope that a HOU vs TEX bidding war develops.
kylelohse
They are going to wait until June…and trade Alex Cobb. He’s a free agent next year and they need him to rebuild some value.
aloliver16
The value for Alex Cobb and Chris Archer is down, the latter because of a poor 2016 season. By definition, 9-19 pitchers can’t be aces, and Archer must build on a stronger second half of this past season. His peripherals don’t tell the accurate story of 2016, the strikeouts weren’t happening early in games when Archer wasn’t sharp. The Rays had a terrible year partly due to his disappointing season.
Chris Archer is now 28 years old, and at some point, will need to demonstrate the ability of a real ace. If not, this will be another example of a pitcher with good stuff not translating to results.
Connor Byrne
I’d argue Archer already demonstrated the ability to be an ace from 2013-15. He even brought quite a bit of value in 2016, record aside. Two-hundred innings of 4.00 ERA ball at a $2.75MM cost is a massive bargain. Given the track record and contract, Archer should have astronomical trade value.
therealryan
Steve Carlton and Phil Neikro both had multiple 19 loss seasons and Nolan Ryan had an 8-16 season.
Over the past 3 seasons Chris Archer is top 15 in fWAR, innings, strike outs and xFIP. He’s also top 20 in FIP and top 25 in ERA. We can argue the definition of an ace, but what isn’t arguable is that over the past 3 seasons, Archer is one of the top 20 pitchers. He is also signed to one of the most team friendly contracts in baseball and has huge value, evidenced by the Astros offering 3 top 50 prospects, plus others. The Rays still said no to that trade.
kiermaier
Win and loss record isn’t a good stat to judge pitchers its based on run support a pitcher gets.
davidcoonce74
Are we still using pitcher win-loss records to prove things. Uhhh, it’s not 1956 anymore.
aloliver16
Win-loss records are still part of the evaluation for evaluating pitchers, I never claimed it was the only method. Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, and Nolan Ryan are bad comps for Archer as they were already established starters. And also future hall of famers. And if anyone thinks Chris Archer has a prayer for Cooperstown, I’ve got some Florida swampland to sell you.
It’s a sellers market for pitching, so not surprising teams like Houston would be offering a generous package, poor judgment on the Rays for not accepting that deal. Tampa Bay is working on four straight losing seasons, so their opinion of huge value has to be taken with a grain of salt..
If Archer can finally deliver on his potential in 2017, I’ll gladly give him credit, and we can start talking realistically about value. But he’s no ace, I saw nearly all his starts this past season.
Bruin1012
Win Loss records don’t tell anything really. Archer’s K/9 and walks/9 very similar to the year before the only real difference was HR/9 his ground ball percentage was up too. He plays on a poor team if he was on the Red Sox he might of won 18 games. He is still easily one of the most valuable pitchers when contract is considered in the game.
aloliver16
Won/Loss records do tell a partial story, the better pitchers usually have the records to support that claim. Part of the reason the Rays were a poor team last year was Archer’s disappointing season. Performance will always be the bottom line, even over the contract.
If you watched the Rays last season, especially in the first half, those K’s weren’t happening in the early part of games when Archer didn’t have sharp command. And the walks also came at inopportune times. This is why it’s so important to watch the games.
Bruin1012
Win Loss records tell next nothing all GM’s and knowledgeable baseball people know that Archer is a stud. They all value him very highly more than likely he isn’t going anywhere but if he does he require a Sale type return. The win Loss thing is the same thing people argue with about Quintana and it’s just silly.
davidcoonce74
You’ve heard of bullpens, correct?
therealryan
In 2015, Archer was top 12 in IP, FIP, xFIP, SO, fWAR and top 20 in ERA. Is that not establishing himself?
Did you watch every start of Steve Carlton in 1970 and know that he was an ace at the time and bound for the HOF even while struggling through a 10-19 record?
You say Carlton was established, but he was similarly established as Archer is now. Entering 1970, Carlton had 103 career starts with a 7.1 K/9, 2.9 BB/9, 1.22 WHIP and 121 ERA+. Compare that to Archer who had 93 career starts with a 9.0 K/9, 3.0 BB/9, 1.19 WHIP and 115 ERA+. Archer might not be headed to the HOF, but his stats show a TOR arm playing for a struggling team, much like a young Carlton was. Good to know that Archer can build on his very good 2nd half that saw him pitch 91 IP of 3.25 ERA, 3.29 FIP and 3.15 xFIP.
MB923
Well the writers do. It’s basically the key reason why Porcello won the Cy Young Award
Carry on my Heyward son
I’m rooting for Arroyo, healthy for so long until it all piled up at once. Plus he fought A-rod so there’s that
J.M. Hall
Let Arroyo be the Cubs next “project”, He could be like Trevor Cahill/Clayton Richard. Would be interesting….
davidcoonce74
What’s more annoying, these bot posts or the people still trotting out “rave reviews” comments?