Email a copy of 'Jack Of All Trades: Bert Blyleven' to a friend
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By Howard Megdal | at
Email a copy of 'Jack Of All Trades: Bert Blyleven' to a friend
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start_wearing_purple
Wow, I didn’t realize the Jays got Alomar and Carter in the same trade. That’s gotta be a top 5 all time trade for the Jays.
studio179
No disrespect, maybe you were not old enough…it’s kind of a well known trade. Also, it is higher than top 5 in Blue Jay’s history.
Arron
I can agree with that. That trade pretty much set up the Blue Jays World Series run.
Jon
Depends what you mean by set up. The Jays had one of the better clubs in baseball for a number of years before the trade, averaging 91 wins the prior six years, including season winning 99 and 97 and had nine winning season in-a-row. So the Jay had a strong team before the trade.
And the Alomar/Carter trade wasn’t the only move that made from Dec. 1990 until the world series win. The Jays also traded for Devon White, David Cone and Juan Guzman and signed free agents Jack Morris and Dave Winfield. And John Olerud was called up and came into his own.
As for the Alomar/Carter trade itself, Mcgriff would prove to be a better player than Carter; the Jays still got the edge in the trade because Fernandez fell apart as a player while Alomar had a hall-of-fame career.
No doubt getting Alomar helped with two titles but so too did having a strong team to build upon and making a half dozen trades and free agent signings.
bbbman
Until the Alomar/Carter trade, the Jays were considered a good team that could never win the important games. Alomar’s key home run in the 92 ALCS changed that.
Red_Line_9
There’s a reason Toronto GM Pat Gillick is also a Hall of Famer.
start_wearing_purple
You have dishonored me sir. I challenge you to a du-el!
No disrespect taken. I like to think I know a lot about baseball history, but frankly all I really ever studied about the Jays was the current farm system and whether or not they were a threat to the Red Sox each year. By the time of this trade all I really knew about baseball was Roger Clemens was supposed to win when he was on the mound and “Isn’t Mike Greenwell so cool.”
studio179
“You have dishonored me sir. I challenge you to a du-el!”
Maybe not your intention, but an old Homer Simpson reference…I like it!
start_wearing_purple
Actually, that was my intention. Glove Slap!
studio179
As the Colonel would say…I accept your challenge, sir!
BaseballRulez252525
The only downside to Bert going into the Hall of Fame is we won’t hear tear the HoF apart for not making it.
bleedDODGERblue
Lovin the link to the story so that it doesnt take up so much space. Good one
Alex Grady
chances the jays win either WS with Mcgriff and Tony instead of JC and RA?
vonhayesdays
Ha zaa to you Bert old boy , next up Jack Morris
Ortue
I think if anyone really looked at Bly’s record, forgetting his name was on it, they would conclude he wasn’t HOF material.Yeah, he’s a great human being and his popularity has been elevated by his presence as Twins color guy, but please…the HOF selection is so political it drives me nuts….both for and against players.
BaseballFanatic0707
If a sensible baseball fan looked at his numbers without seeing his name, they would immediately conclude he should have been in years ago, since a win-loss record should not be completely indicative of a pitcher’s resume for the HOF. It’s a forgone conclusion among many people that post here.
Either you were being sarcastic, I misread your comment, or you’re just being silly.
ellisburks
Jack Morris is NOT a Hall Of Fame pitcher. Just a good pitcher for a long time. He was never the best in his league in any year and happened to be lucky that he pitched for The Tigers who had very good teams during his time there. If Blyleven could have pitched with the Tiger’s offense and defense behind him he would have won 200 games easily. Jack’s numbers, even his counting stats, are not really Hall worthy. Just good enough for him to be at the window looking in.
jimmymfb
i cant believe how many former indians are named in these trades
Jon
Depends what you mean by set up. The Jays had one of the better clubs in baseball for a number of years before the trade, averaging 91 wins the prior six years, including season winning 99 and 97 and had nine winning season in-a-row. So the Jay had a strong team before the trade.
And the Alomar/Carter trade wasn’t the only move that made from Dec. 1990 until the world series win. The Jays also traded for Devon White, David Cone and Juan Guzman and signed free agents Jack Morris and Dave Winfield. And John Olerud was called up and came into his own.
As for the Alomar/Carter trade itself, Mcgriff would prove to be a better player than Carter; the Jays still got the edge in the trade because Fernandez fell apart as a player while Alomar had a hall-of-fame career.
No doubt getting Alomar helped with two titles but so too did having a strong team to build upon and making a half dozen trades and free agent signings.
Leonard Washington
Congrats to Roberto! I thought he would be first round, then again I thought Larkin would be too.
Guest
I think Gammons said it but the whole spitting episode was probably a good reason.
Red_Line_9
The umpire called him a “motherf**ker”…and he spit on him.
ellisburks
Spitting on a person is NEVER the correct response. If Hirshbeck called him a MoFo then Alomar should have reported it. Horking up a luggy is just plain disgusting.
Red_Line_9
MLB has come a long way in how umpires are monitored and disciplined. The incident was discussed in a book that I read a few years back. The writer….I can’t remember the book title…said that calling a latin player a MoFo might elicit a greater physical response than it would from a caucasion.
All we really saw was Alomar spitting.
wacdog
because alomar said to the umpire i liked you better before your son died
wacdog
alomar said to the umpire i liked you better before your son died
DunkinDonuts
I’m a bit late to the discussion (I stopped following the Hall of Mediocrity inductions religiously several years), but will someone remind me why Roberto Alomar gets a pass from the steroids witch hunt?
T Tucker
Well, Thompson “faded away” due to leukemia. He died later that year.
Guest
I think if anyone really looked at Bly’s record, forgetting his name was on it, they would conclude he wasn’t HOF material.Yeah, he’s a great human being and his popularity has been elevated by his presence as Twins color guy, but please…the HOF selection is so political it drives me nuts….both for and against players.
ellisburks
Or if you look at his career WAR of 90 (13th all-time) or his career ERA+ of 118 or his 3701K’s (5th all-time) or his 287 wins(27th all-time) or his career WHIP of 1.198 or his 60 shutouts (9th all-time) you might conclude that he IS HOF material.
Red_Line_9
I have conservative views on what the Hall of Fame should be….but it’s not my Hall of Fame anyway. I believe the bar should be very high. It shouldn’t take a player more than a decade to get in the Hall. My Hall would allow players one shot before they are passed on to the Veterans Committee where they can be reconsidered after one generation (20 years) have passed. This would allow those players that might get short changed the chance for history to take a look at their records in a new light.
Also, why in this modern age are sportswriters doing the only voting? Am I right, or has this changed?
BaseballFanatic0707
It should not have taken Bret all this time to get in to begin with.
Here are some quick numbers to support him:
13th in WAR all-time for pitchers
5th on the Strikeout list
14th on the innings pitched list
11th in Earned Runs allowed
Hell, 27th in wins despite the record
All but one (Jim Kaat) of the top 10 pitchers with similar careers (not the top 10 all time-the top 10 that are similar to Bret) are in the Hall.
No offense to Jim Rice, but Bret should have gotten in instead of him when Rickey got in. That was literally the worst feel-bad-for-you-for-being-on-the-ballot-so-long story ever. Heck, I’m sure he should have been in much earlier than that.
Red_Line_9
I have very conservative views on the Hall. I don’t mean to diminish Bert Blyleven’s contributions. There are numerous players already enshrined whoI don’t feel are deserving, maybe even less so than Blyleven.
My issue with Bert Blyleven is that most of his stats were are ones that owed more to career longevity that to actual dominance. Don Sutton is a similar story.
goner
I was shocked at how little talent in return the Pirates received for trading Blyleven, until I learned how he got in Chuck Tanner’s doghouse that year after he went AWOL from the team for a couple of weeks early in 1980. I don’t want to speak for the GMs involved, but I would suspect that the Pirates didn’t really care who they got for Blyleven, as long as he was gone.
$6101468
BB was a consistent pitcher who rang up some excellent career numbers. IMO he was a very good pitcher but not a great one. I would also probably exclude about half the players already in the HOF.