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DarthMurph
The Jays players didn’t get injured and stop performing because they didn’t trust the ownership, though having a guy like Gibbons manning the helm can’t help morale.
Stonehands
How can Bogaertz be called a star after a less than stellar rookie season? Granted I have high hopes for him too but let him prove himself before calling him a star
chris hines
I think you missed the end of that sentence.
“though Bogaerts obviously still work to do to establish himself on that level”
LazerTown
I really don’t understand why the Jays stood still last winter. 2 Winters ago they took that big gamble and shipped several prospects out to get better, but never really were they complete. They should have been big movers last winter, and they probably could have been true contenders.
Joe Valenti
Isn’t Bogaerts considered a bad defensive SS? Hence him playing 3rd any chance they get
Jeff Hill
Actually he was playing 3rd because they had a more capable SS in Stephen Drew for the last 2 years.
Joe Valenti
And they signed Drew because they weren’t confident in Bogaert’s ability to handle short effectively
Jeff Hill
Yea that was Farrell’s decision to pursue and bring him back. The front office felt he was more than capable playing SS but Farrell didn’t think he was.
Brady 2
he is a worse 3rd Baseman and it hindered his offense
Joe Valenti
I’m pretty sure MLB pitching hindered Bogaerts hitting
Tko11
“A young, controllable star at shortstop.” Slow down there Mac, not exactly sure when Bogaerts became a star. He’s shown flashes but hasn’t exactly put it together yet. So potential star? Yes. Currently a star? No.
LazerTown
I was told here last winter that Bogaerts was a 6 WAR player now. That sounds like a star to me.
Brady 2
by who? 6 WAR might be his ceiling in his peak years. Even if he has a dWAR of 0.0 there are only a select few with a 6+ oWAR. I have no doubt when he puts on some muscle on that rail-like body he will hit 30+ homers with .290+ middle of the order bat.
Stonehands
You are defending a player who hasn’t proven anything at the major league level for more than a few weeks at a time and saying “he will hit 30+ homers with a .290+ average.” How about tempering expectations and not saying he will be Tulo. There are not many players like that.
chris hines
Seems like everyone missed the part where he said “though Bogaerts obviously still work to do to establish himself on that level”
Randy Jay Pena
As a Red Sox fan I’m not sure I want Shields for 5 years, the guy is in his 30s and doesn’t deserve 20 mil a year when he’s terrible in the Postseason.
Flash Gordon
I would rather have them give Lester 7/140 than give Shields 4/80
Randy Jay Pena
Exactly at least Lester is proven to win in the Regular season and Postseason.
TheRealRyan 2
Taking away the names, here is a comparison of the two players over the last 3 years.
SP A: 638.1 IP, 3.65 ERA, 3.49 FIP, 3.60 xFIP, 111 ERA+, 8.3 rWAR, 13.5 fWAR
SP B: 683.1 IP, 3.29 ERA, 3.51 FIP, 3.51 xFIP, 121 ERA+, 10.1 rWAR, 12.0 fWAR
Which one would you rather give 7/140 to rather than 4/80 for the other again?
Justafan
in fairness Lester had, hands down, his worst year in 2012 and in turn I’d consider it to be an outlier. Hard to knock him too much especially considering that was the only full year in which he had a WAR under 3. Replacing 12 with 11 would probably skew the results quite a bit
Flash Gordon
Yeah, I’ll take player A. Lester is the better pitcher right now and going forward. Those numbers include Lester’ s uncharacteristically bad 2012. He’s you get and has better peripherals than Shields.
Tko11
Id prefer having Lester back but if it cant be done they have to get one of Scherzer or Shields in which case I think Shields would be a better signing. Id also like to see them give Masterson a 1-2 year deal. He can attempt to rebuild his value and the Sox really need all the pitching they can get. McCarthy is another guy to consider.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Actually, according to my statistics the Green Monster and his father has a better WAR here! =P
DarthMurph
“Big Game James” continues to flounder in big games. Definitely has me rethinking how well he’d hold up as ace of the Sox.
bobbleheadguru
Nice nickname, but Lester is twice the pitcher.
TheRealRyan 2
How do you figure? Since 2010 these two players have almost identical stats.
Lester: 1038 IP, 3.54 ERA, 3.48 FIP, 3.52 xFIP
Shields: 1136 IP, 3.53 EAR, 3.62 FIP, 3.46 xFIP
d-blaque12123
Pedro Martinez said it best: Shields loses focus as the game progresses.
bobbleheadguru
I doubt the Red Sox sign Shields, or Scherzer, or Lester. The “dollars after age 30” are too big in all three cases.
The Red Sox won the World Series with ZERO $20MM players. They need to build from the middle of their roster, not the top.
DarthMurph
All three of the Sox recent WS teams have featured elite talent that made between 13-16 million a season. Though Pedro’s deal was the largest at the time he signed it, by 04 that was no longer close to being the case.
That kind of talent isn’t available anymore for that price.
Brady 2
and if you compare the market from 2004 to now Pedro would have made close to 20 if not more. in todays market he would be a 30 million player.
JacobyWanKenobi
The Sox need arms, they have the money to spend, they’ll probably spend it.
WIlliam 2
“How much of a step forward Bogaerts can take at shortstop will have quite a bit to do with how much of a step forward the Red Sox can take in the American League East,” MacPherson writes.
even if Bogaerts plays to the potential that he has given his age, it is completely unfair to put how successful the red sox will be on his shoulders. there are more than enough players on that team to make the red sox successful.
Flash Gordon
Fair or not when you look at their lineup it’s evident he has to hit at an above average rate. If not they might as well go with Devon Marrero and his defense. Although many people will disagree and its far from settled, I think he’s a 3B.
AmericanMovieFan
Melky is so up and down season to season that it’s impossible to know what you’re gonna get the following season no matter what his performance was. So if I’m the Jays, or any team for that matter, I split the difference in my offer. If “Healthy Melky” shows up for the season, he’s probably worth $14MM per season. If he’s “Perenially injured and underperforming Melky” he’s worth maybe $4MM per season and that’s pushing it for his veteran status.
Therefore, I think he’s getting paid close to what he deserves. But he won’t settle for anything less than a fat raise so I’d offer him 3 years/$30MM, period. Because either you’ll overpay him or underpay him, but rarely will you pay him for what he’s truly worth.
Flash Gordon
He’s been pretty good 3 of the last 4 years offensively with the exception of 2013 when he was playing with that messy back condition. Still with his shaky defense, PED history and the fact that he is entering his thirties I’d be gun shy to give him too much.