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justinept
If their interest was at 7 years / $161 million, then they were better off not making an offer. Forget hindsight, there was never any reason to think Price would go for $50 million less than Scherzer.
alexvz3
That’s true, but there was said to be mutual interest between the two. If Price wanted to go to the Cubs, who will contend for World Series titles in the coming years, then he would have to take a discount to play for them.
bruinsfan94 2
How so? Its still a huge offer so you can’t call it an insult. Its worth a shot. Maybe Price really likes playing for Maddon and would have thought about taking less ( not likely but some guys know they can live on a 100 million$). What happened if the Red Sox traded for an ace other teams went other directions? Ya never know, mine as well throw out the number.
JT19
They were probably hoping to sell him on taking a slight discount to play for Maddon again, and saying that with the few dollars they save, they could use it to upgrade it at other positions or extend some of their core guys. While it could easily be perceived as a lowball offer, its easy to defend as the most the Cubs were willing to go.
greatd
They tried with the budget they had.
Boston in a couple of years will regret the deal.
End of story.
bighiggy
I feel like the cards are waiting too long to sign someone. Need to trade for freeman and tehran then sign gordon
kbarr888
Nobody is getting Freeman. Braves fans will boycott if they trade him….lol. Like the Gordon idea…….or they could trade for Ozuna. Miami is done with him, I think…..huge upside there….
jwhales44
I agree, they’ve spent too much time giving out 2nd or 3rd best offers.
mattsmattedin
Agree on waiting too long. This week will be telling. I would not be surprised if Mo and staff leave Nashville without doing anything, though. Heyward might take awhile.
mrshyguy99
I know the Reds are rebuilding but trading a fan favorite in Frazier would surely make some fans mad
chicubbies1
that’s how rebuilding works though.
RedsNut1967
I agree Jeremy. After his first half and performance at the Home Run Derby, it’d be a damn, damn shame. Have to keep Votto, Frazoer, and, dare I say it–Cozart ? If Suarez goes to left, depending on who possibly might replace BP, the infield would be set. Where did you go, Me-so-ra-co ?
Matt Galvin
Angels get Frazier,Diamondbacks get Chapman,Bailey and Reds get Owings,one of DBACKS OF not named Pullock,Cam Bedrosian,Drury and so on?
JT19
Wait what? What are the Angels giving up? Doesn’t make sense for the D’Backs to give up their prospects so Frazier can go to LA.
JT19
Missed the inclusion of Bedrosian, but still stands that the D’Backs shouldn’t be giving up all their prospects for essentially an All-Star closer, an injured #3 pitcher and for another All-Star to be sent to another team when that team is only giving up minimal pieces. I’m sure that trades like this have happened in the past, but still seems crazy to me.
Ry.the.Stunner
So the Angels give up one terrible pitcher and get Frazier in return?
bobbleheadguru
Fun fact:
Pelfrey had a FIP of 4.00 last year. Jeff Samardzija had a FIP of 4.23.
I think defense matters. If Romine starts at 3rd and Maybin starts in LF for Pelfrey’s starts, the Tigers will have above average defenders at all 8 positions.
With that defense, Pelfrey should be the statistically equivalent of Rick Porcello at 60% off the price tag.
justinept
Well… Porcello is an average pitcher who basically f’d up the pitching market with that insane deal last year.
bobbleheadguru
Pelfrey with a 4.00 FIP in Detroit should give him a 3.60 ERA which is perfect for a #4.
mookiessnarl
How quickly they turn on Shane Greene. I though he was the next great thing?
JT19
Greene played well in the beginning of the year, but struggled as the season went on. He’s still in consideration to be the #5 pitcher so they haven’t given up complete hope.
mookiessnarl
They should. His early work last season was better than anything he’s ever done before. Guy may have a future as a swing man but he’s probably headed to the pen.
bobbleheadguru
Good memory! I agree that I thought that Greene would turn into that. He hasn’t. Could be an injury issue that he is over now.
If someone wants to give an above average reliever for him, I bet the Tigers would take it.
benharvey26
I think that Greene and the other young arms are still in the mix for rotation time, yet it is always great to have depth. Lobstein went down last year, leaving a huge hole, so having a bit of a surplus can only work in Detroit’s favor
mookiessnarl
So Price is worth 161 over 7 and Lester is worth 155 over 6? Tough to see what the Cubs were thinking here. Price is clearly a step above Lester.
alexvz3
Obviously no one thinks that Lester is better than Price. If they were both available last winter, the Cubs would’ve offered Price a more expensive contract than Lester.
mookiessnarl
I’m sure they would have. But given the fact that he’s a better pitcher, one year shouldn’t really cause the offer to go down. Even if they were the exact same guy the offer should have gone up some. It’s not like the market was flooded with ace’s this year.
justinept
I don’t know where Levine is getting this figure since he reported earlier in the week that the Cubs didn’t even make an offer to Price. The existence of numbers seems to contradict his own report. Regardless – you’re 100% right. That number represents a fairly insulting offer.
Mikel Grady
Lester would reply to you but he keeps fat fingering with his 2 World Series rings.
SaladFingers69
I was fat fingering your mom last night
justinept
That escalated…
mattsmattedin
Quickly.
NickinIthaca
Hilarious, but I’m surprised it lasted this long. Mods must be on break….
mattsmattedin
Damn long coffee break.
justinept
Edinson Volquez just won a WS while serving as a team’s top starter… Is he better than David Price, too?
mookiessnarl
Only one of which he really played well enough to take a lot of responsibility for. Lester may be the post season hero of 2013, but regular season should get you paid too.
chesteraarthur
It was said to be an “interesting” offer. I’m guessing that it was largely front loaded or something like that, making the present value of the contract higher because that definitely seems like a low-ball offer.
chicubbies1
Tough to see what they were thinking? Really? Since you’re new here I’ll explain it. Price has said he would like to play for the Cubs and their very young and promising team to potentially have long term success with, and to reunite with a manager he loved playing for. Having this nugget of knowledge, and some might use a fancy word like “leverage,” they lowballed him an offer. He could have come back with another number if he really wanted to play here, but instead Boston does what Boston does and shot their load all over a big name free agent (they have a history of that and it usually ends up badly…. Crawford…. Lackey….. Sandoval… Ramirez…. Porcello….. etc.). Had Price truly wanted to come here he’d see the offer, counter, and go from there. However, Boston came a yelling over and threw insane money at him to get his attention and he took it. Cubs would’ve looked like mad geniuses had they signed him to, say, 7 years and $175M-$182M after going back and forth. With Price and Greinke getting $31M and $34+M AAVs the Cubs are looking like geniuses already by getting Lester last year to $25M AAV…… only $3M more than Zimmermann. The way this offseason is going Lester would’ve gotten nearly $30M AAV had he been a FA this year instead of last year. One year too late Lester. And let’s quit acting like $161M is insulting to play a game for a living.
bmcc5411
The Cubs need to either sign span or parra and trade soler for pitching like carrasco or miller and then sign heyward for RF, or, sign heyward to play CF until almora is ready and then trade soler away for pitching similar to carrasco and miller and move heyward to RF. Outfield defense the the Cubs biggest problem, not pitching. Either of those scenarios gives us heyward almora and probably schwarber in the outfield in a year. If contreras turns out to be great behind the plate, keep schwarber in LF and that still gives u good outfield defense. If contreras gets hurt or doesn’t stick, schwarber moves to catcher and we sign a LF. Simple plan. Also gives us a rotation of arrieta carrasco/Miller Lester lackey and hendricks. Unstoppable, affordable if we can get rid of hammel’s contract, and sustainable for years save lackey
chicubbies1
Or they could just trade Baez and a prospect or 2 for (better IMO) pitcher Danny Salazar from Cleveland. Lets say Baez, McKinney, and Vogelbach. That should be more than enough, and possibly too much for Salazar….. but the Cubs can afford it. They still have Castro for 2B, Vogelbach is blocked for as long as Rizzo is in a Cubs uniform, and McKinney….. while a top prospect, the Cubs only have like 6 other top OF prospects in the game in Almora, Happ, Dewees, Eddy Martinez, Zagunis, and Eloy Jimenez.
So hypothetically they trade for Salazar for Baez, McKinney, and Vogelbach
Then they sign Heyward to play CF on a 10 year $190-200M deal with an opt out after 5 years. Pay structure would be:
2016-$15M
2017-$17M
2018-$18M
2019-$19M
2020-$21M
opt out? (likely)
2021-2025 $20-22M annually
The fact Heyward will be wrapping up his age 30 season when he reaches that opt out year he will still be in his prime and still have the ability to enter free agency and garner at least a 6 year deal and likely a 7 year deal for waaaaaay more than $100-110M which is what would be left on my hypothetical deal…. unless he declines dramatically over the first 5 years. Odds are it would likely end up being (essentially) a 5 year deal for $90M because he’d opt out of the remaining 5 years to go chase mo’ money.
Sign Heyward to what will ultimately be not that crazy of a deal
Since the rotation with the addition of Lackey and Salazar makes it look like Arrieta, Lester, Salazar, Lackey, and Hendricks, Hammel is expendable. It’s no secret that Papelbon loathes Washington and Washington doesn’t like him because he put their pretty boy Harper in his place (which was awesome… loved every minute of it). I say trade Hammel to Washington for Papelbon. Nats get some competition for their 5th starter spot in Hammel behind Scherzer, Stras, Gonzalez, and Roark all while shaving $2M off the payroll (P-bon=$11M, Hammel=$9M). While the Cubs get a very strong reliever to add to their already extremely strong bullpen of Rondon, Strop, Ramirez, Grimm, Wood, and one of CJ Edwards, Rex Brothers, and Clayton Richard. Throw Papelbon in there as either the closer or as ANOTHER setup man and the cubs then have 3 shutdown, setup man quality pitchers in Papelbon, Strop, and Ramirez….. and you could make a case for Grimm. However you shake it out the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings will be nightmares for opposing teams.
Trade Hammel for Papelbon
Then sign utility man Kelly Johnson to a 1 year $4M deal? Maybe?
My hypothetical 2016 Cubs
LINEUP
CF Heyward – $15M
2B Castro – $7.857M
1B Rizzo – $5.286M
3B Bryant – $550K-ish
RF Schwarber $530K-ish
LF Soler – $3.67M
C Montero – $14M
SP
SS Russell – $530K-ish
BENCH
C Ross – $2.5M
2B/3B – La Stella – $600K-ish
1B/2B/LF – Kelly Johnson – $4M
OF Coghlan – $3.9M
OF Szczur – $520K-ish
ROTATION
SP Arrieta – $10.6M
SP Lester – $25M
SP Danny Salazar – $550K-ish?
SP Lackey – $16M
SP Hendricks – $530K-ish
BULLPEN
CL(a) Rondon – $3.6M
SU(a)/CL(b) Papelbon – $11M
SU(b) Strop – $4.9M
SU(c) Ramirez – $520K-ish
RP Grimm – $1M
RP/SP Wood – $6.4M
RP Brothers?? – $1.42M
That 25 man roster costs $140.5M just about… only about a $20M increase from last year…… pending other additions they make that start the year in the minors…. like likely candidate Clayton Richard who’s signed to a $2M deal. Very attainable. There’s gotta be a world series in this roster….. right? On paper that lineup is STOUT. That bench is solid. That rotation is NASTY. And that bullpen… good luck opposition, that’s all I have to say about it.
Ben
I like it, Salazar definitely isn’t BETTER than carrasco, I agree with you though that he’s better relative to his price in prospects, however. Also, I don’t want paplebon under just about any circumstance. Hes not a good person and even though he may be familiar with a lot of the people the Cubs now have from the Red Sox, I don’t want him around. Plus he’s old. But I do like that scenario. If we’re trading hammel away I want his salary gone, that would be the only reason I want him gone to make room for heyward, so acquiring paplebon for him defeats the purpose