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By Connor Byrne | at
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No Soup For Yu!
Nicasio’s spring numbers:
0.00 ERA; 15 IP; 24 SO; 5 BB; 1 HBP; 10 hits (only one, a triple, for extra bases)
Vogelsong’s spring numbers:
6.14 ERA; 14.2 IP; 4 SO; 6 BB; 0 HBP; 19 hits (8 for extra bases, including 2 HR)
Why was there even any debate at all, let alone one as divisive and heated as the article makes it sound, about who should be the 5th starter?
Travis’ Wood
Seriously? Maybe because spring training stats are extremely fluky and almost entirely meaningless? Not to mention a very small sample size. No one takes spring stats that seriously…. Look at Trevor Bauer. Great spring stats compared to tomlin and Anderson yet still demoted to the pen. Why? Cause spring stats don’t matter
chri
And lets add the fact that Vogelsong hasnt had an ERA below 4 since 2012. That’s bad since you consider that he has been in one of the more pitcher friendly parks in the majors during that span.
Granted Nicasio is nothing special, but he gets some kind of mulligan from pitching in Coors the majority of his career.
cxcx
I thought Bauer got demoted because they want to limit his arbitration earnings.
Ray Ray
They do take spring stats seriously when there is a direct competition for a spot, which there was in this case. If spring stats don’t matter at all, how else are you going to determine who wins a battle for a spot? Small samples may be sometimes fluky, but they have caused guys to be out of the league for many years now and will continue to do so in the future. Of course they have also helped lengthen big league careers as well. I cite both Brennan Boesch and Kevin Gregg with the Reds last year. They both absolutely tore in up ST and made the team. And both proved to be fluky, but they still got big league pay for a while longer than if they had a bad spring.
baseball guy
Because it is only spring training
No Soup For Yu!
That argument only works for so long. At some point you have to start thinking that Vogelsong’s 2.7 K/9 this spring isn’t just some fluke and that this is his actual level of talent at this point. Just because it’s spring doesn’t mean he’s a better pitcher than what he’s shown so far.
Lanidrac
That’s probably part of why he ultimately lost the competition. Still, it’s important to consider a guy’s Major League track record (and ERAs in the 4’s are still somewhat decent) alongside Spring Training performances when dealing with these kinds of competitions. That’s why it was such a tough decision.
No Soup For Yu!
Also, welcome to MLBTR Connor! Best of luck!
Connor Byrne
Thank you!
Phillies2017
I like Nolin– He could eventually be solid for Milwaukee
thechiguy
Excellent debut Connor! Six Notes of shut-out level writing!
Connor Byrne
Thanks, chiguy! Very much appreciated.
thechiguy
Poor Red Birds! They seriously can’t catch a break!
Lanidrac
They’re still healthier than last year., though.
Gogerty
Nice write up Connor, looking forward to future post. Maybe supplant that Jeff Todd guy on chats, haha.
Connor Byrne
Hahaha, thanks, Gogerty!
Monkey’s Uncle
Going with Nicasio really is the best move for the Bucs. I think Vogelsong might be more likely to contribute more as a long reliever and spot starter at this point in his career. Worst case scenario, Nicasio flops or can’t stay healthy, and either Vogelsong or Kyle Lobstein fill in at least until Tyler Glasnow, Jamieson Taillon and perhaps other prospects are ready this summer. Even if Nicasio falters, he has the ability and the youth to bounce back.
cxcx
You mean until they comfortably clear the Super Two threshold.
Monkey’s Uncle
Correct, thank you for clarifying that.
mbcardsfan
What am I missing about Matthew Bowman? Poor minor league numbers and poor spring results and they’re giving him a spot?
Putmeincoach12
He is recovering from a major surgery and has a huge upside?
Putmeincoach12
Excited and happy for Jeremy Hazelbaker that he made my favorite team the Cardinals. I have seen him in AAA and this guys is talented and just forced his way on the team. Good look man.
cardfan2011
Man the Cardinals just can’t catch a break lol. Well, Im glad Hazelbaker made the roster, he’s earned it. Bowman, Im surprised they went with him, he doesn’t have very promising numbers, but maybe that’ll change. Remains to be seen, go Cards!
jrollison
Perhaps the debate raged about Nicasio due to what’s on his toolbelt. If you look at his pitch usage over his career he almost flat out ignores a change up and lives off of fastball/slider.
The Pirates say that he has been working on a sinker this spring, which is almost necessary for the Pirates’ defensive philosophy…but we will see if that plays
aff10
Agree 100%. I like Nicasio, and I’m glad that he got a shot at the job, but I probably would’ve left him in the bullpen. His stuff definitely seemed to play there from what games I saw him pitch last year, and his numbers backed it up (although leaving Colorado probably helped out too). If he finds an offspeed pitch, he can work out, but I could see him having some trouble against LHH in the rotation. If, as you said, he has developed his third pitch though (and Pittsburgh seems as good as place to figure it out), then this is the right call.
tom from st pete florida
Let’s see what kind of “team first” player Vogelsong is now.
He showed nothing in ST except that he would make a good batting practice pitcher.
Worse case scenario, let him pitch a couple of innings of mop up duty, and if he hasn’t figured how to get major league hitters out, show him the door, and bring up that guy they got from the Marlins , over the winter.
The Pirates got something with him, IMO.