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By Tim Dierkes | at
Email a copy of 'Offseason In Review: Chicago White Sox' to a friend
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ASapsFables
Great review. This article is summarizing what I have been suggesting for much of the offseason, especially with the following 2 paragraphs which have gotten me plenty of criticism with many White Sox fans:
The outfield/designated hitter situation is the biggest remaining question for the White Sox. The addition of Jackson is balanced by the loss of Thompson, so nothing was really done to address a group of players that provided very little value in 2015. Melky Cabrera, Adam LaRoche, and Avisail Garcia were each below replacement level last year, and the team still needs to give a lot of playing time to at least two of them. One more significant outfield addition would have gone a long way.
In general, a cautious yet active offseason will draw praise. However, the flip side to bargain shopping is that you get less reliable players. Yes, the White Sox addressed their middle infield situation, but Rollins and Lawrie were actually pretty bad in 2015. Ian Desmond would have been a safer bet than Rollins. Avila, Latos, and Lawrie can’t be replied upon to stay healthy; that’s part of the reason they came cheap.
Thanks, Tim.
rayrayner
I think Melky is a bounceback candidate this year. Not much faith in LaRoche and Garcia, but maybe a platoon at DH will help. Sox did well in selling high on Thompson to get Frazier though I think it was Montas that the Dodgers were really high on and he’s hurt now. If Rollins and Lawrie don’t pan out, Saladino and Sanchez should at least be able to be plus defenders.
kidaplus
I think Melky got bit on BABIP in the first half last year. Evened out for a good second half.
Wouldn’t be a surprise to see him rack up around 200 hits this season.
Garcia actually hits .284 vs lefites, so if there is on area you optimistically hope he can have a positive effect on the team, a DH platoon might be it.
thecoffinnail
Melky won’t have another really good season until the last year of his contract. Pending free agency seems to light a fire in him.
Gogerty
Is that one player gonna be a rotation piece of OF?
bigpapi4ever
White Sox had a nice little offseason but when you compare it to the serious reloading the Red Sox did (Price/Kimbrell/Smith/Young/etc) it’s not anything special. Voted the White the White Sox for a B- this offseason.
mikecws91
Yeah, cause every team has a few hundred million dollars lying around.
rayrayner
Agreed, for better or worse, Jerry is not Ilitch. The team will have to win at this payroll level.
ASapsFables
The White Sox wouldn’t have needed “a few hundred million dollars” to give them an “A” grade this offseason. A forfeited compensatory draft pick and $8M could have netted them a proven 30-year old starting shortstop in Ian Desmond while a significant corner OF upgrade like Yoenis Cespedes (no lost pick) or Alex Gordon might have also been available to them for well south of $100M in total contract dollars. It’s been said that both Cespedes and Gordon took took less to remain with their former teams. That being the likely case, the White Sox still had (and have) numerous other trade options that would cost them as much or less in terms of dollars, including reported targets such as left-handed power hitters Carlos Gonzalez, Josh Reddick, Andre Ethier and Jay Bruce along with right-handers Ryan Braun, Yasiel Puig and Jorge Soler, among others.
rayrayner
Here’s the world, soxcess1! Do I get an A?
Btw, I give the Sox a B, too.
Dock_Elvis
The catch is that Hahn likely did check in on most of those trade possibilities and found out that the Sox would have had to eat both cash AND prospects. CarGo isn’t going anywhere from Colorado without that happening. Jay Bruce…I don’t know, maybe..but Cincy probably has better trade partners. Alex Gordon wasn’t going anywhere…he’s like Mauer in Minnesota.
I’m all for the Sox riding out a farm system development…its been their Achilles heal..they leak money on average replacements cause they haven’t developed them from within. I think we see where they are after this season and then we might see some real winning moves made. Sox will never do a full rebuild though…market won’t bear it.
thepapacy
Desmond was not worth losing a comp pick when it was only a 1 year deal.no way no how with our farm system the way it is. I think our biggest mistake was not trading samarzjda(I know spelling) last year at the trade dead line when people where giving up a kings ransom for pitchers.
ASapsFables
The White Sox could have gotten the comp pick back next offseason by offering Desmond a qualifying offer following the 2016 season. If he accepted the QO, then they would have essentially signed him to a two year deal anyway. The bottom line is how the White Sox perform as a team in 2016. If they come close but fall short of the postseason and shortstop is an Achilles heal, they will regret passing on Desmond…and I will be here to remind them of their blunder. (lol)
chisoxfan87
Did Hahn just forget to look at the options? Anyone can dream up a scenario where you net better players. It was probably the paucity of talent in the farm system that resulted in less trade pursuits. I do agree, though, that if the if the reports were true and the compensatory draft pick was all that was keeping the Sox from landing Desmond, then that was a missed opportunity.
And since when are the Red Sox the model of how to construct a team? Championships built on PED users, some pansy with a bloody sock, and the money from a bunch of mindless tourists who want to see a big wall and sing Sweet Caroline. Bah, bah, bah.
thepapacy
And if Desmonds production continues on the downward slide and he struggles I would be afraid to offer the QO and he would walk and we still lost that pic. There’s a reason why no one wanted anything to do with ian desmond. Then again he’s lost so much money maybe he cones back and has a strong year but to me with the farm system the way it is, he just isnt worth it. Especially if the QO next year is in the 16mil range and we have Tim Anderson waiting in the wings. We can spend that money elsewhere
chesteraarthur
Red Sox are still gonna finish 3rd in their division.
kidaplus
They also didn’t do anything as “special” as giving porcello a 100 mil or loading up on Hanley or Panda. (Much to the relief of their buffet table)
They saved their picks and financial flexibility for the future while putting themselves in spot where it’s not inconceivable that they can contend and be in a position to make a move at the deadline.
It’d be great if they could could just write a bunch of checks to cover their mistakes, but they can’t. (or wont)
Steven P.
The Sox did what they could without hurting the future of the club. Right now the White Sox have excellent payroll flexibility moving into the future and might be able to compete this season if things go right. Not a flashy offseason, but a sensible one considering that this isn’t the year to go all in on
ASapsFables
The White Sox have been acting like a team going “all-in” over the past two offseasons after their initial re-tool that began at the 2013 summer trade deadline. Actually, these past two offseasons were the time to do so. The White Sox went with numerous “value” signings instead of more impacting ones with this most recent class of FA’s.
The free agent market looks less promising to add significant talent over the next two winters and what will be available figures to be costly with slimmer pickings. Trades will now likely be the clubs avenue for improvement which WILL cost the White Sox “future” assets.
maxmadsen
And having the #10, #26, and #49 picks this year will help replenish that future. A lot of things happen over two seasons, international signings, non-tenders, surprise breakouts. With their pitching depth in both the majors and minors, they’re positioned to contend for years to come.
ASapsFables
I gave the White Sox a “B” grade for their offseason, same as most fans at the time of this post. It would have been an “A” had they acquired a significant power hitting corner outfielder via a trade or free agency AND had they signed free agent shortstop Ian Desmond when his price tag dropped to the 1 yr/$8M contract he eventually signed to play LF for the Rangers. Those two acquisitions would have given the White Sox the best offseason hands-down and likely made them pre-season co-favorites in the A.L. Central and in the American League.
The White Sox still have an opportunity to trade for that impacting upgrade to their OF and middle of the batting order. The White Sox spent about $20M this offseason for a number of value FA’s including the $2M that Jimmy Rollins will earn when he most likely makes the opening day roster. I would have gladly sacrificed the Jeff Samardzija compensatory pick and ponied up the $8M to sign Desmond instead of settling for a potential platoon at such an important position like shortstop in 2016. The White Sox would still have had the option to move Desmond at the trade deadline for at least equivalent value of that forfeited pick or offer him a qualifying offer following the season. Rollins and or Tyler Saladino would likely have no such comparable value at SS, present or future.
chesteraarthur
Their farm system is bad.
You know that break out thing can go the other way too, right? Sale injury, Q injury. If one of those two go down, the sox are awful.
They took more of a quantity over quality approach to free agency and ended up with two below level replacement players. Do you think they will all improve and no one will regress or get injured? That’s the only way that I could find myself thinking that they are set up to compete for many years
Dock_Elvis
My most honest take is that they are setting up for 2017 without punting 2016. They haven’t done anything to totally bottom out and can make deadline moves, and can also be active next offseason. The Southside demands some creative retooling. Not like over at Wrigley where the organization can intentionally tank to draw the picks and still not take much of a hit at the gate because of the summer tourist trafric or in merchandise sales. White Sox tank and they disappear.
chesteraarthur
I’d say that’s poor planning. The 2017 FA class leaves something to be desired.
Also merchandise sales are split equally between all 30 teams.
Dock_Elvis
Thanks for mentioning the revenue split
.it’s something my mind slipped on. I actually went and researched that. The percentage is charged on wholesale licensees sales…at its not a percentage of straight retail sales. Interesting, thanks.
My point about the Cubs and the Chicago market remains logical, though, I believe. The Cubs have a built in fan base and global presence that doesn’t demand a winner to remain viable in the short term. The Sox basically hinge on being competitive to drive fan interest within the Chicago area.
I’m baffled at how any team can really be called small market at this point though…not if they all make mlb property money and split 5 billion annually…only a small fraction goes into payroll. Teams csn essentially play to empty stadiums and remain cash cows.
maxmadsen
“The addition of Jackson is balanced by the loss of Thompson, so nothing was really done to address a group of players that provided very little value in 2015.”
Wait, what? Jackson had a 2.3 WAR last year, Trayce Thompson had an unsustainable BABIP-fueled 135 PAs. Most of that success coming over two weeks in August, after which he cratered once pitchers figured him out.
I agree they failed to make an impact move in the outfield, but to claim the Jackson acquisition only balances out the loss of Thompson is disingenuous.
Tim Dierkes
My assessment there was based mainly on ZiPS projections for Jackson and Thompson…if you set them each at 600 PA they’d both be right around 1.7 WAR. Thompson doesn’t need to hit anything like he did in 2015 to provide value over a full season in 2016. Both below average hitters with a touch of defensive value.
TheMichigan
I feel Dan Jennings will make the bullpen, with jones, maybe Petricka, have Duke SU and Robby Close
mikecws91
Yup, barring injury, the pen is pretty much set at Robertson, Jones, Duke, Petricka, Putnam, Jennings, Albers.
thecoffinnail
Robby? Do you mean Houdini?
Zcash10
The signing of a guy like Josh Wall was a good under the radar sign. He has been average in the minors and last year at AAA under the Pirates organization he found himself. Now he hasn’t done too well in the majors but I think he has a chance to help the ChiSox out pretty soon.
SupremeZeus
Hahn addressed many holes the past two offseasons. I particularly like the top 3 in their rotation. I think Carlos Rodon is going to make a huge jump this season. That said, IMO the Sox roster is still thin and continues to be a mishmash of players w/ no apparent roster philosophy. As Jimmy Rollins said yesterday, “We are a group of guys that pretty much have to jell in one year,” History tells us that is not a recipe for success. IMO, they are relying on far to many rentals and too many players that must rebound from bad seasons to have a chance at competing. I have the Sox finishing 3rd in the Central, if they have injuries they are in trouble.
chesteraarthur
” IMO, they are relying on far to many rentals and too many players that must rebound from bad seasons to have a chance at competing”
I think this is spot on. They look to be a team that could be really good if everything breaks well, or really bad if it does not. Due to all of these outcomes they have a high volatility.
Dock_Elvis
That’s the history of the team in the past decade. Feast or famine with the roster mojo.
citizen
if only the white sox had a competant manager to manage all these aquisitions they still might finish 3rd in the division.
A'sfaninUK
This White Sox team sure sounds a lot like last years Mariners team. I expect similar results.
sportingdissent
I voted the White Sox offseason an F. It isn’t that they didn’t make a few good moves. It’s that they stuck with their core in an off-season where the path to contention – true contention – was accessible and they continued to operate with their nickel and dime tactics and hope for a lot of luck.
Maybe they’ll compete. They’ll probably finish last. There’s way too many maybes.
Someone needs to tell Jerry Reinsdorf to retire. The days where guys are willing to play for a warm meal and a roof over their heads is long over. Yet he continues to make the White Sox operate that way. It’s a shame they’re wasting Chris Sale’s prime years with this nonsense.
Strauss
They still have Ventura. That’s a BIG drawback.
retirement13
As a life long Sox fan, over fifty years, I have never witnessed such fan displeasure over a manager. This includes the likes of Bevington, Kessinger, Lamont among many others. This is even more amazing because Robin was such a popular player. No doubt he needs to go. When? Why is it taking so long? I suggest his presence is hurting attendance and management credibility!
ASapsFables
I too have been a Sox fan for 50+ years since 1963. It’s been my impression that Sox fans have disliked most of their managers during that time, including some good ones like Chuck Tanner, Bob Lemon and HOF’er Tony La Russa. Some of that, including the three mentioned, was the result of vociferous broadcaster Harry Caray who turned fans against many a manager, coach and player during his decade as the voice of the White Sox.
Robin Ventura is hardly the first popular White Sox player turned manager the fan base has berated. Larry Doby and even 2005 World Series manager Ozzie Guillen received harsh criticism. White Sox fans have had a long history of not supporting their team unless they win. Criticism of Ventura during his rookie year managing was muted because the team contended all season and Sox fans gave him the benefit of the doubt. They primarily blamed ownership and the front office for the hiring of a manager who had no past experience in the role at any level.
Imo, a MLB manager has minimum influence on a team’s fortune over a 162 game season. A manager can make the difference in a close race, but the White Sox have hardly been contenders during Ventura’s last three season at the helm. No manager would have had those teams in the postseason. Ventura will likely have one more opportunity to get the White Sox into the postseason. He is managing in the final year of his contract extension and the club hired former Cub manager Rick Renteria this past offseason as their bench coach. Another poor start and Ventura is likely gone. If the team comes out of the gate strong he will just as likely get another extension from an owner who has no peers when it comes to loyalty, often to a fault.
Dock_Elvis
Be interesting to see how the fans reacted to Konerko in the dugout. Your observations are the ones I’ve seen, though certainly not over 50 years….that’s nice you’ve stuck it out with the Sox like that.
In a way I don’t draw issue with fans telling teams they aren’t happy with lousy play. I’ve never felt it was exceptionally loyal to be too “awe shucks” about losing.
Fred 3
As long as you have that buffoon in the radio booth, you guys ain’t going nowhere
Fred 3
Meant tv booth.
ASapsFables
Yeah, the White Sox fortunes hang on “Hawk” Harrelson. (lol)
Since he will primarily be broadcasting road games in his final season as the voice of the White Sox, they might have a puncher’s chance at the postseason in 2016. (lmao)
thebare
If LaRoach is as bad as last year He Gone- let’s hope for a Dunn type 2nd yr. We did get better w/Eaton playing A corner.Garcie a DH
thepapacy
Why is everyone so high on ajax? The only thing he brings is help in the field because his batting line is on par with avi. Avi was .257/.309/.365/ops+89 with a 23.5 k% and 6bb%while ajax was .267/.311/.385/ ops+ 87. 23.9 k% and 5.5bb%.How is that so much of an upgrade? Avi was hurt 2years ago and just struggled last year along with everyone else except Eaton and Jose. Avi is only 24 and has played only 1 full season and probably should have been in AAA for most if not all of it, whats ajax excuse?? so let’s reserve the judgment a little.
rayrayner
The Sox OF defense was bad last year, Ajax can play CF better than Eaton and he just might hit better than he did in Seattle. If AJax hits the same as he did the past couple of years, that’s okay. Eaton can hit enough to play LF or RF and will definitely field better than Avi. Avi may improve his hitting but he’s probably better suited to be more of a DH. In fact, Avi must improve his hitting in order to stay with the Sox.
Phillies2017
The White Sox would be better off if this team lost this season
Why?
In a fantastic AL Central, they are still incomplete and Latos, Albers Rollins, Avila, Navarro and Jackson are all examples of fantastic deadline chips who are cheap and tradeable and if they play at least to their contract values (which isn’t much) they can bring in pretty nice prospect hauls– enough to give the White Sox an even stronger foundation than any team in the division with the exception of the Twins (as KC, Detroit, and Cleveland have relatively weak systems)–
If they win, then they are faced with essentially the same problems with prospects solving just shortstop and maybe rotation– they would still need Garcia to step it up, which is a huge gamble, or they would need to sign an outfielder, they would need to sign another regular catcher and they would need to hope that they could piece together a good BP–
Regardless
Assuming all of those guys played as well as we know they can:
Albers could get: a top 30 (15-20) in organization plus a lotto
Jackson could get 2 top 30 (one 10-15, one in last 25-30) in organization guys
Latos could get 2 top 30 (both potentially 10-15) and a lotto
Rollins could at least snag either a low level minor leaguer with a high ceiling or a high level minor leaguer with a low ceiling
Navarro and Avila could each get a lotto type guy
if they were to make all of those moves (which is a longshot I know) they would have added 5 new top 30 guys and 5 lottos
thepapacy
I say we trade quintana to the cubs and raid their far system. Schwarber, soler, baez, McKinney, Contreras would all be good fits and fill needs so a combo of any of them and I would be happy.
I know we are in “win now” mode but we are so deep with pitching and specifically left handed pitching I think we can afford to part with him to fill a few holes.
retirement13
Deep in pitching? If you trade Q all you really have left is Sale and Rodon to start. The bull pen is good. But Danks is weak, Turner got shelled his last start and Latos is a question mark.