What’s the purpose of the waiver order going league to league instead of just lumping all of them together? Just an old rule that no one’s felt the need to change or is there a plan to it?
Jeff Todd
I’d guess it’s a holdover from the merger, but I have no real idea.
TDKnies 2
Thank you!
BlueSkyLA
Jeff, do you know of any tracking info on the percentage of waived players who clear waivers, and who actually get traded?
mct1
The short story: 1) this is a vestigial remnant of the days when the AL and NL operated more independently of one another than they do today, and 2) the requirements that a player clear waivers within his team’s own league and in the other league were created at different times for different reasons.
The long story:
At one time, any time a player was traded from a team in one league to a team in the other, he had to clear waivers within his team’s own league. This wasn’t just true after the trade deadline. It was true at all times of year. So if the Indians wanted to trade a player to the Cubs, every other AL team had to be given the opportunity to claim that player on waivers, no matter what time of year it was. Back in the days when the AL and NL operated more independently, the purpose of this rule was to prevent an outflow of talent to the other league. (Before the development of farm systems, when minor league teams were independent, it also acted as a brake on players being traded out of the league to minor league clubs.) These waivers were unique to each league; the player didn’t need to clear waivers in the league he was being traded into. The leagues weren’t concerned about new talent coming in. They were concerned about existing talent going out. So in the Indians-Cubs example mentioned earlier, the player only needed to pass through AL waivers.. He did not need to be offered on waivers to NL teams.
Meanwhile, both leagues introduced trade deadlines in the 1920s, creating the current setup where players traded after the deadline have to clear waivers. Like the interleague waivers discussed in the last paragraph, however, these waivers were unique to each league. Their purpose was to protect the integrity of that league’s pennant races. As such, they only applied to trades involving teams within the same league. So if the A’s and White Sox made a trade after the deadline, those players had to pass through AL waivers. They did not need to be offered on waivers to NL teams.
So, to sum things up, if you made a trade with a team in the other league, at any time of year, the players you were trading had to pass through waivers. If you made a trade with a team in your own league after the deadline, the players you were trading had to pass through waivers. In both cases, it was just waivers within your own league. Players you were trading would never have to be exposed to teams in the other league on waivers.
If you stop and think about it, there is a giant loophole in these rules. Let;s say the Tigers and the Red Sox were involved in a pennant race. If the Tigers tried to bring in a player after the deadline, the Red Sox could block that from happening, just as they can today – but only if the player was coming from another AL team. If the Tigers tried to bring in a player from an NL team, the Red Sox were powerless to do anything about it. That player only had to clear NL waivers. I guess that when these rules were created, there wasn’t a lot of trade activity between the leagues, so the leagues didn’t see a need to address this. But in the 1940s the Yankees front office discovered this loophole, and they used it to acquire players from NL teams several times in the late 1940s and early 1950s. Other teams got fed up with this, and the rules were changed to require any player traded after the deadline to pass through waivers in both leagues – first his team’s own (which had been the original rule), then the other league’s. .
Beginning in 1959, restrictions on trading players between leagues were eased, and in 1986, they were completely eliminated. This meant there was no longer any situation in which a player had to pass through waivers only in his team’s own league. Even though the original reason for one league having priority over the other on past-deadline trades no longer really existed, it remained the rule.
metseventually 2
Thank you for posting this! I’ve had the general concept down but this cleared everything up for me.
adyo4552
I agree! Thanks for this article MLBTR.
Monkey’s Uncle
I remember that Alex Rios waiver claim. The Blue Jays couldn’t have been happier to unload that contract. If I remember right (and this is usually the case with waivers), the White Sox didn’t actually want Rios, but were trying to block Toronto from trading him to another AL wild card contender. In other words, there is a risk in claiming guys off of waivers. Like Jeff said, it doesn’t happen often, but you could end up with a player you didn’t really need and a contract you definitely didn’t want.
CodyGadbois
Ya white sox made a mistake on that one, he played pretty well on the south side tho
Raptors Rampage
So now that we have this are you working on an article about possible august claims and which team might claim them 1st?
As a padres fan I can see Jon Jay being claimed as well as alexi ramierez [depth purposes] and buchter and hand but curious who would potentially claim them first.
cbf82
That would be diffucult as we dont know whos put on waivers. As the article says, a team may put their entire roster on waivers. And even if they are claimed, i dont believe we even know which team it is unless it leaks thru sources or the two teams work on a trade publicly.
Raptors Rampage
We have an idea of possible guys to be put on waivers. Jay and Alexi Ramirez for instance are free agents at end of season
Jeremy Hellickson, Jorge Del La Rosa, Edinson Volquez, Logan Morrison, etc could all be theoretical obvious waiver and claim guys due to being free agents at seasons end.
So I guess narrow the scope to top 10 or 20 free agents to be who could be claimed, by who ideally, and if a deal could be reached.
angelsinthetroutfield
So can team 1 (let’s say the Angels) place sub-par player A on waivers with a plan in place for team 2 (the Mets) to claim him then negotiate a deal for bigger pieces?
Example:
Angels place Shane Robinson on waivers. Mets claim and negotiate a deal for Robinson and Escobar for Nimmo and a lower level prospect.
cbf82
I dont think it works like that. Unless all players involved clear waivers then it can be done. Thats why youre more likely to see 1for 1 swaps or for minor leaguers.
Monkey’s Uncle
Teams can’t have a plan in advance to work out a waiver trade, because they don’t know which teams might put in a claim on your player. In your example, every team in the AL and every team in the NL with a worse record than the Mets would get preference over the Mets if they claimes Robinson. If, say, the Royals claimed Robinson, and no team with a worse record in the AL than Kansas City claimed him, then the Angels could ONLY work out a possible deal with KC. The Mets would be out of the picture. cbf82 is also correct in saying that these are usually smaller deals because the teams only have 48 hours to work out a deal.
angelsinthetroutfield
Understood. But you’d think nobody would claim subpar players and mess up their 40-man hence the circumnavigation tactics
Gogerty
I think the way the trade deadline went, this could be a busy August.
Connorsoxfan
The Dodgers also acquired Nick Punto in the 2012 deal. Most important player!
nymetsfan39
You forgot about Addison Reed. Mets traded for him August 30th last year.
frankthetank1985
Was gonna say that too. He was a huge part of the mets run and is still a huge part of their bullpen success this year.
DEK59
Thanks Jeff, that answered some questions I had
tuner49
I could see teams hanging on to SP they failed to trade in July till after Aug. 15th. See how the standings have played out these 2-3 weeks in Aug. Then see if a contender will now match their demands. Can’t see a non-contender trying to pick anybody up for just a 4-6 week run.
mjw82
If a team has a prospect that is on the 40-man roster but won’t pass through waivers, can they include him as a PTBNL and finalize the trade after the season? Like if the Braves wanted to trade Aaron Blair as a PTBNL for Brian McCann.
fs54
Can a player pass through waivers more than once after getting claimed on his first run through?
metfan57
Excellent article. Not easy to cover. One waiver trade I will always remember is in August 2010 when the White Sox claimed Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers just gave them him to rid themselves of him. It was such a shocl
Comments for this post have been closed by the site administrator.
TDKnies 2
What’s the purpose of the waiver order going league to league instead of just lumping all of them together? Just an old rule that no one’s felt the need to change or is there a plan to it?
Jeff Todd
I’d guess it’s a holdover from the merger, but I have no real idea.
TDKnies 2
Thank you!
BlueSkyLA
Jeff, do you know of any tracking info on the percentage of waived players who clear waivers, and who actually get traded?
mct1
The short story: 1) this is a vestigial remnant of the days when the AL and NL operated more independently of one another than they do today, and 2) the requirements that a player clear waivers within his team’s own league and in the other league were created at different times for different reasons.
The long story:
At one time, any time a player was traded from a team in one league to a team in the other, he had to clear waivers within his team’s own league. This wasn’t just true after the trade deadline. It was true at all times of year. So if the Indians wanted to trade a player to the Cubs, every other AL team had to be given the opportunity to claim that player on waivers, no matter what time of year it was. Back in the days when the AL and NL operated more independently, the purpose of this rule was to prevent an outflow of talent to the other league. (Before the development of farm systems, when minor league teams were independent, it also acted as a brake on players being traded out of the league to minor league clubs.) These waivers were unique to each league; the player didn’t need to clear waivers in the league he was being traded into. The leagues weren’t concerned about new talent coming in. They were concerned about existing talent going out. So in the Indians-Cubs example mentioned earlier, the player only needed to pass through AL waivers.. He did not need to be offered on waivers to NL teams.
Meanwhile, both leagues introduced trade deadlines in the 1920s, creating the current setup where players traded after the deadline have to clear waivers. Like the interleague waivers discussed in the last paragraph, however, these waivers were unique to each league. Their purpose was to protect the integrity of that league’s pennant races. As such, they only applied to trades involving teams within the same league. So if the A’s and White Sox made a trade after the deadline, those players had to pass through AL waivers. They did not need to be offered on waivers to NL teams.
So, to sum things up, if you made a trade with a team in the other league, at any time of year, the players you were trading had to pass through waivers. If you made a trade with a team in your own league after the deadline, the players you were trading had to pass through waivers. In both cases, it was just waivers within your own league. Players you were trading would never have to be exposed to teams in the other league on waivers.
If you stop and think about it, there is a giant loophole in these rules. Let;s say the Tigers and the Red Sox were involved in a pennant race. If the Tigers tried to bring in a player after the deadline, the Red Sox could block that from happening, just as they can today – but only if the player was coming from another AL team. If the Tigers tried to bring in a player from an NL team, the Red Sox were powerless to do anything about it. That player only had to clear NL waivers. I guess that when these rules were created, there wasn’t a lot of trade activity between the leagues, so the leagues didn’t see a need to address this. But in the 1940s the Yankees front office discovered this loophole, and they used it to acquire players from NL teams several times in the late 1940s and early 1950s. Other teams got fed up with this, and the rules were changed to require any player traded after the deadline to pass through waivers in both leagues – first his team’s own (which had been the original rule), then the other league’s. .
Beginning in 1959, restrictions on trading players between leagues were eased, and in 1986, they were completely eliminated. This meant there was no longer any situation in which a player had to pass through waivers only in his team’s own league. Even though the original reason for one league having priority over the other on past-deadline trades no longer really existed, it remained the rule.
metseventually 2
Thank you for posting this! I’ve had the general concept down but this cleared everything up for me.
adyo4552
I agree! Thanks for this article MLBTR.
Monkey’s Uncle
I remember that Alex Rios waiver claim. The Blue Jays couldn’t have been happier to unload that contract. If I remember right (and this is usually the case with waivers), the White Sox didn’t actually want Rios, but were trying to block Toronto from trading him to another AL wild card contender. In other words, there is a risk in claiming guys off of waivers. Like Jeff said, it doesn’t happen often, but you could end up with a player you didn’t really need and a contract you definitely didn’t want.
CodyGadbois
Ya white sox made a mistake on that one, he played pretty well on the south side tho
Raptors Rampage
So now that we have this are you working on an article about possible august claims and which team might claim them 1st?
As a padres fan I can see Jon Jay being claimed as well as alexi ramierez [depth purposes] and buchter and hand but curious who would potentially claim them first.
cbf82
That would be diffucult as we dont know whos put on waivers. As the article says, a team may put their entire roster on waivers. And even if they are claimed, i dont believe we even know which team it is unless it leaks thru sources or the two teams work on a trade publicly.
Raptors Rampage
We have an idea of possible guys to be put on waivers. Jay and Alexi Ramirez for instance are free agents at end of season
Jeremy Hellickson, Jorge Del La Rosa, Edinson Volquez, Logan Morrison, etc could all be theoretical obvious waiver and claim guys due to being free agents at seasons end.
So I guess narrow the scope to top 10 or 20 free agents to be who could be claimed, by who ideally, and if a deal could be reached.
angelsinthetroutfield
So can team 1 (let’s say the Angels) place sub-par player A on waivers with a plan in place for team 2 (the Mets) to claim him then negotiate a deal for bigger pieces?
Example:
Angels place Shane Robinson on waivers. Mets claim and negotiate a deal for Robinson and Escobar for Nimmo and a lower level prospect.
cbf82
I dont think it works like that. Unless all players involved clear waivers then it can be done. Thats why youre more likely to see 1for 1 swaps or for minor leaguers.
Monkey’s Uncle
Teams can’t have a plan in advance to work out a waiver trade, because they don’t know which teams might put in a claim on your player. In your example, every team in the AL and every team in the NL with a worse record than the Mets would get preference over the Mets if they claimes Robinson. If, say, the Royals claimed Robinson, and no team with a worse record in the AL than Kansas City claimed him, then the Angels could ONLY work out a possible deal with KC. The Mets would be out of the picture. cbf82 is also correct in saying that these are usually smaller deals because the teams only have 48 hours to work out a deal.
angelsinthetroutfield
Understood. But you’d think nobody would claim subpar players and mess up their 40-man hence the circumnavigation tactics
Gogerty
I think the way the trade deadline went, this could be a busy August.
Connorsoxfan
The Dodgers also acquired Nick Punto in the 2012 deal. Most important player!
nymetsfan39
You forgot about Addison Reed. Mets traded for him August 30th last year.
frankthetank1985
Was gonna say that too. He was a huge part of the mets run and is still a huge part of their bullpen success this year.
DEK59
Thanks Jeff, that answered some questions I had
tuner49
I could see teams hanging on to SP they failed to trade in July till after Aug. 15th. See how the standings have played out these 2-3 weeks in Aug. Then see if a contender will now match their demands. Can’t see a non-contender trying to pick anybody up for just a 4-6 week run.
mjw82
If a team has a prospect that is on the 40-man roster but won’t pass through waivers, can they include him as a PTBNL and finalize the trade after the season? Like if the Braves wanted to trade Aaron Blair as a PTBNL for Brian McCann.
fs54
Can a player pass through waivers more than once after getting claimed on his first run through?
metfan57
Excellent article. Not easy to cover. One waiver trade I will always remember is in August 2010 when the White Sox claimed Manny Ramirez and the Dodgers just gave them him to rid themselves of him. It was such a shocl