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cardfan2011
The minute I heard the Dozier rumors, they didn’t make sense to me considering how Mo has said he plans on Wong starting at 2nd.. I think that rumor was started so the Dodgers would improve their offer
smelliott00
I agree. If the Cardinals really want to take themselves above the top, they could use a big time power hitter to throw into the middle of that lineup, and, while Dozier fits that mold, I don’t know that second base is the place to add. In addition, there’s not a clear position of a needed upgrade. Perhaps 3rd base? But as of now, there’s not a definite need of an addition for this Cardinals team besides an established backup OF. I really like Chris Coghlan and Seth Smith for that 4th OF spot.
lesterdnightfly
Wow, the Cards don’t need upgrades other than a big stick? And Wong is peachy as their 2B?
Someone’s been buying Mozeliak’s line of goods.
cardfan2011
I didn’t say I liked Wong as the second baseman, I’ve stated before that I think Wong is overrated. I hope he proves me wrong
screwball8
Best thing anyone has said on here about mo and Wong!! First thing the cardinals need to do is fire matheny and mo!
lesterdnightfly
2011: I was responding to smelliott00, not you. At any rate, we agree that Wong is not such a hot ticket as Mo says.
cardfan2011
Sorry my bad lester
wch1974
What about responding to sports articles turns everyone into an argumentative expert/idiot? I’d love to hear the other options that are out there in free agency or trade?
Priggs89
I think you could argue that second base would be a great place to add. Wong is pretty mediocre.
lesterdnightfly
Wong is Gordon Beckham 2.0, only he’s getting $5 million per year for four more years. Terrible extension, Mo.
stl_cards16 2
He’s been a 2 WAR player that’s shown flashes of more. If he’s that, he’s plenty worth the extension.
lesterdnightfly
Big “if” ….
jimmyz
I think someone like rajai davis would be a better 4th OF choice for the cards. That lineup is fine in the batters box but leaves a lot to be desired once they’re on the bases.
stryk3istrukuout
True, but Davis wants to start- or at least start most of the time. He will require a pretty solid chunk of cash, also, for a 4th outfielder. I like the idea, but not sure if they can come to an agreement
davidcoonce74
If Wong really starts at second – and he’s been dreadful the last two seasons – then the Cards have three extra infielders, right? I can’t imagine they’ll be okay keeping Peralta, Gyorko and Adams as part-time players. Matheny seems to have soured on Wong, and he’s a cheap asset if another team still believes in his upside. I’d assume Wong is a trade piece if the Cards really have an interest in Dozier.
Lanidrac
Wong was a near All-Star in the first half of 2015 and was just fine once he returned from his stint at AAA last year. He just didn’t get much playing time down the stretch due to the infield logjam which has now been partially cleared with Moss leaving and Adams demoted mostly to pinch-hitting duty.
Peralta will be the starting third baseman this year.
davidcoonce74
So Gyorko is on the bench? He was better than Peralta last season. Wong has been a below-average offensive player the last two years, although he plays good defense at second. The extension he’s signed to makes him an optimal trade candidate, as it buys out all his arb years.
lesterdnightfly
But Wong’s contract is too big for a marginal 2B for the next four years. Lots of guys cheaper and better. Will be tough to get much for him in a trade.
p.s. What’s a “near All-Star” ? Besides, that was for half a season, two years ago. Means nada.
AddisonStreet
Is Brandon Moss really even an OF?
mateodh
If he isn’t, he’s a DH.
Vedder80
Yes. He will never win a gold glove, but his defense isn’t horrible in the corners.
Dock_Elvis
He’s a gold glove DH
wiggysf
Lol
stl_cards16 2
By the metrics, he’s a better OF than a 1B, believe it or not.
AddisonStreet
He must be pretty terrible at first.
stl_cards16 2
Yep. And slightly below average in LF. Think if LFers in the league, it doesn’t take much to be average. Matt Holliday was until last year, Alfonso Soriano was above average in left.
chesteraarthur
Luckily for Soriano arm strength and accuracy declines later than wheels
cardinalfanforever
The problem with a lot of these players is if they struggle the first month or so of the season and go 15 for 100, for example, they have dug themselves a hole with their average and it is a struggle the rest of the season to get their batting average up to a respectable number. It seems that was what happened to Wong, because I remember him coming off of the bench several times and getting pinch hits
chesteraarthur
huh?
santosPinkyToe
This is the thought of someone who just hit a j. They think they’ve uncovered the meaning of life only to read it hours later when they’re not high and realize it’s a bunch of nonsensical gibberish.
johnnya
Lmaooooooooo
bsb129
I wonder if the cardinals would have any interest in bringing Colby Rasmus back as 4th OF/lefty bench bat?
omahamadness
Hahahahahahahahahahaha wow bsb129, just wow. Ever heard of hell freezing over?
bsb129
I’d be lying if I thought I would get a different answer
stl_cards16 2
I’d take Rasmus as a 4th OF heartbeat.
lesterdnightfly
Lots of teams would like a pitcher who has a season like Arrieta’s “disappointing” one.
Sweet Home Chicago
At first I disagreed with the word “disappointing” and thought “unexpected” would be better, but as I thought about it, disappointing fits. I haven’t seen a Cubs pitcher as unreliable as Arrieta this year since Zambrano.
lesterdnightfly
Missed the point.
Sweet Home Chicago
Ah. Sarcasm is lost in print.
joemendoza23
18-8 and two WS wins is up
there with the best !
Msvhs79
Rasmus really
Bank On It
Bautista should be choice in 1 year deal
chesteraarthur
Has the cubs front office said anything about negotiating an extension with jake, or was that just Boras?
Unless he’s willing to drop his demands a lot, I wouldn’t even bother discussing an extension with him. His walk rate jump and the way he seemed to lose his slider near the end of the season is worrisome.
jimmyz
Yeah doesnt make much sense for them to pay a premium for his decline years. They’d be better off going after danny duffy, cueto if he opts out of his contract or someone similar who’s slightly younger but still a proven asset to a rotation next offseason as opposed to paying jake big money til he’s getting close to 40 years old
Sweet Home Chicago
Last year he said the numbers speak for themselves. I hope he still feels the same way.
jimmyz
Cant wait for the next domino to fall for the Pirates. Seems like they need to make at least one more trade either to acquire another starter or shed a little payroll so that they can be comfortable with adding pieces at the deadline from a financial standpoint. Still holding out hope for a quintana trade but that would almost certainly require another move to accomodate his salary given their budget history.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Trade Cutch for prospects.
Add Glasnow to those prospects and get Quintana.
Use Harrison and Bell in RF when they aren’t playing 2nd and 1st.
Sign Carter or Lind to add 1B depth
Sign Saunders or Rasmus for OF depth.
Trade Watson for another Felipe Rivero type.
Sign Drew Storen to compete with Rivero and Hudson for the closer’s job.
That’s what I’d do.
PS- What might Ervin Santana cost prospect wise if Quintana isn’t happening?
RiseAgainst3598
I think it depends on how much money is eaten but something like Nick Kingham and Juan Nicasio would get it done with twins eating a few million per year.
jimmyz
I doubt the twins would have any interest in nicasio given that his contract will expire before they have a contending club and kingham, though his upside is greater than most of the pirates’ AAA starters, excluding glasnow, is still in need of proving himself coming off tommy john surgery so I’d imagine a chad kuhl and alen hansen/max moroff type package with a low level lottery ticket throw in to be more appropriate for ervin santana.
RiseAgainst3598
I like the structure of that trade for sure, nice job putting that together, I thought about kuhl but wasn’t sure the Pirates would include him. And with pitching I think the twins would prefer upside at this point because they have had mediocre pitching for so long without even any # 2 type starters. (Other than Phil Hughes one good season)
stryk3istrukuout
1) So you have Bell, who is unproven…Cervelli and Harrison, both very light hitters…Kang, who is likely to be suspended or maybe worse (Freese, who is a slightly above average hitter, to replace him)…Mercer, who is maybe an average hitter…and your answer is to remove one of your three respectable hitters and sources of lineup protection for a pitcher? Then, not only that, but to add maybe the best pitching prospect (whom they’ve developed since high school) to that package?
2) Why trade Watson? He’s arguably your best reliever. You seem way too high on Storen and his 5+ ERA in 2016.
3) Though Lind isn’t a bad hitter and has more power, he doesn’t hit lefties. You already have Jaso at first…who also doesn’t hit lefties. All the while, there is little to no depth at 3rd or SS.
4) Saunders and Rasmus are okay, but it just seems silly to let Matt Joyce and Sean Rodriguez walk and then go out and sign one of them.
Quintana would be a good addition, especially as a lefty, but it seems like you’re giving up quite a bit without much worthwhile corresponding moves to round out the team.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
1) Bell might be the best hitter on the team. Harrison and Cervelli have to rebound or else they won’t win, that’s true if they make my moves or not.
Allowing Cutch to walk for nothing is not an acceptable option. His value gets lower each day.
And many scouts now regard Mitch Keller as the Pirates best pitching prospect over Glasnow. Unlike Keller, Glasnow’s service clock has started, so they’d only be trading two years of control with him vs. Quintana, who is a sure thing.
2) Trading 2 months of Melancon got the Pirates 5 years of Felipe Rivero. I’d gladly trade 1 year of Watson for another Felipe Rivero. Again, we can’t let assets walk for nothing.
3) I’d DFA Jaso. Lind and Carter are bargain bin options, no doubt, but they need some power or even just the threat of power in the lineup.
4) I’d have kept both Joyce and (especially) Rodriguez, but they are gone now.
EKocur57
Makes zero sense. Build your rotation and proceed with a patchwork outfield? Baloney. Make the decision: contend now and get Quintana for prospects. Or build for 2019 or 2020 by adding prospects.
It’s pretty simple. But mixing and matching is lunacy
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Any outfield that starts with Marte and Polanco will be good as long as the RF’er has a pulse.
The infield is the greater concern of the two. But there aren’t many readily available upgrades.
Though, I would find out the asking prices for Todd Frazier or maybe Brett Lawrie.
Monkey’s Uncle
Harrison is just terrible defensively in the OF and his bat over the last couple of years doesn’t play well there. Leave him at 2B. They seem set on making Bell into a 1B. If Cutch stays move him to a corner. If he goes, and he should go only if they get a really good return for him, then you sign a FA, but I think a Chris Coghlan or Rajai Davis is more realistic a target than a Saunders or Rasmus. I like the Ervin Santana idea if they can’t land Quintana as this team still really needs a veteran SP. Trading Watson might be a lot more realistic in the summer or in the spring if injuries hit a team’s bullpen: there are still too many FA relievers floating around. I would endorse shopping Bastardo instead as the bullpen is a little too lefty-leaning.
PiratesFan1981
Pirates signing all these FA doesn’t make sense for them. They rely on in house prospects and not FA. Plus a Chris Carter signing makes as much since as signing Pedro Alverez back. Pirates are trying to build themselves as a base hitting club. OBP means more to them than of homers and high strike out numbers of Carter. Carter is a swing and miss guy like Pedro Alverez. Again, Pittsburgh is more of moving base runners around than of strikeout Kings like Carter.
As for closer if Bucs deal Watson, Felix should be considered as a re-sign to potentially be a closer for a few years. Work his value up so when the time comes, they get a better haul of prospects than you would with Watson. Soren as closer? Lay off of what you are smoking!
I believe Harrison was a bad signing when the Bucs extended his contract. They are paying for it now. No team wants him and won’t even give Pirates cash for him. I think he should share time with Frazier at 2nd. See what Frazier is really capable of doing at a position he could possibly take over (if Harrison is departed). See what that kid could do at 110+ games. If anything, return Harrison back to utility role where he was “mediocre”. Frazier is a kid I am curious about going forward. Newman is coming along nicely. If Frazier plays well above expectations, I believe Newman and Frazier make a better duo than of Harrison and Mercer.
Bullpen has a bunch of Lefties like Cubs do. It will be hard to trade lefties since majority of the league has a few lefties in the pen already. Just roll the dice on that pen at the start of the season. They have a few relievers in AAA that can be called upon at any point during the season.
It is going to take more than McCutchen and Glasnow to make a trade for Quentina. Diaz, Craig (hurts to say this name in any trade chip), Glasnow, and Brault. You might get the White Sox to bite on McCutchen, but they want prospects. I doubt they will take anything lower than the prospect I listed. If not Craig moved, they would want Newman. Pick your battles with the choice White Sox would want in return. If Meadows name gets brought up, if I was NH, hang up! Then laugh all the was to the WS
Lanidrac
I don’t think the Cardinals need another outfielder. While it’s true that they don’t have a decent strictly 5th outfielder, they can always move Carpenter to the outfield with either Adams or Gyorko at 1B when necessary.
Cardinals17
Personally, I see the Cardinals standing pat for the rest of the winter. They have a lot of question marks on starting pitching! Sounds good on paper, but not, reality speaking, that good. Peralta will bat clean up. The current line up should be;
CF…. Fowler
SS…. Diaz
1B….. Carpenter
3B….. Peralta
RF…… Piscotty
C…….. Molina
LF……..Grichuk
2B……. Wong / Gyrko
Mo isn’t moving from that until
The trading deadline in July.
lesterdnightfly
Peralta at cleanup…. that’s as impressive as when the Twins used Bombo Rivera there.
Or do you believe old Jhonny is enhancing his power capabilities again?
santosPinkyToe
That lineup wouldn’t excite me very much.
johnnya
Lollll the Cubs must be shaking in their cleats! Smh
stryk3istrukuout
Diaz is a stud. Carpenter is a great hitter. Fowler has OBP. Piscotty is solid. Grichuk has the potential for 30 homers. Gyorko is a nice power bat off the bench. Really not a bad lineup whatsoever. These guys are just turds. Had the pitching been present last year, Cards win 90+ games. Plus, Diaz went down with that injury. With that said, I see the lineup as Fowler, Carpenter, Diaz, Piscotty, Grichuk, Peralta, Molina, Wong. Grichuk gets moved down at the first sign of struggle.
Lanidrac
Oh, come on! Piscotty and Grichuk are both better options to clean up than Peralta. Now that he’s healthy, Peralta works just fine as the #6 hitter.
petedabrave
Flip Wong for Dozier and that lineup looks a whole lot better.
daveineg
Brewers have some needs but adding power isn’t one of them. Sure they lost Carter’s 41 HR but they’ve added Travis Shaw and Eric Thames who figure to combine for 40 to 50. They also have underrated power in CF in Keon Broxton who combined for 17 HR between AAA and majors, Santana figures to hit 25-30 with a full healthy season. People don’t realize that Villar (19 HR, .457 SP) has plenty of power, and as it stands now, they have 2 bench players in Perez and Gennett who combined for 27 HR in 2016. Even Orlando Arcia, who’s being portrayed as a light hitting SS, hit 12 HR combined between minors and majors last year.
stryk3istrukuout
At least wait for Thames to start a game before declaring him as a 30 home run hitter. This isn’t Korea. On another note, I’m not so sure they don’t start Perez. He was incredibly productive last year in the 2nd half.
baseballdeez
He never declared Thames a 30HR hitter. He said 40-50HR between Shaw and Thames, which amounts to a split of 20-25HR each. That’s very realistic. Shaw has 29HR in 700 MLB AB having played half his games in a park that is 380′ to straight away RF. His home/away splits are identical for HR and he goes from a bottom 3 HR park for lefties (Fenway) to the best HR park for lefties (Miller Park). Thames is also a lefty! and has a track record of having power going back to his 27HR in AA. He’s made tweaks to his swing since those MLB years (averaged 18HR between AAA/MLB those 2yrs at 24/25yrs old) and is in a better place mentally and confidence wise; he’s a better overall hitter right now. He’ll be a solid addition. He got a 3yr deal because several teams wanted him.
Between Braun, Broxton, Santana, Thames, Shaw you’ll see 20-30 HR from them all if they’re healthy most of the year. Add in Villar who will be in that greater area as well as Susac having 15HR+ power too. The Brewers don’t need more power they need a better rotation and a couple pen arms.
Perez isn’t starting either. He’ll get his PT rotating around since he can play 7 positions but he isn’t starting in one spot unless there’s an injury. He’s most valuable as a super utility. All 3 points by MLBTR were off the mark too.
Dock_Elvis
Thames was 40-47hr in Korea…so you’d imagine he’d walk into 20 easy back in the states. Power scattered around the lineup. I think Milwaukee just goes under the radar as usual.
stryk3istrukuout
It’s plausable, but it’s still way too assumptive and optimistic. Byung Ho Park went from 50 homers overseas to AAA. Having the potential to do something is not the same as delivering, regardless of whether or not Thames has already played in the US. You’re bringing up a freaking 27 homer season from AA. Furthemore, Shaw also played in the best lineup in baseball. Even factoring in power, they all strikeout a TON. There’s no guarantee they’ll adjust when they’re striking out a third of the time. Perez might not start and may be most useful as utility, but he certainly deserves to work his way into a starting role if he performs as he did last year.
Dock_Elvis
Everything you stated is potentially true…thats why I felt the term “walk into 20 HR” was apt. The power probably has a floor….but yeah….if he’s hitting .220/.290 and the playing time evaporates then there’s no way the 20 jacks happen. I’ll say that if he can hold down a major league job for 500 AB…he’ll hit 20 mistakes….if he adjusts push that another 5. Maybe 20 is the safe projection.
eddiemathews
It is much safer to predict success for Thames before we’ve seen anything of him. There truly aren’t a lot of other options available if he falls flat on his face…Perez is valuable as a utility guy but as a regular first baseman he will be well below average. Just another gamble that you take when rebuilding.
KB R.
Blevins, Logan, Wood, and I think Howell is a LHRP, are all viable options for the Cubs. I won’t be shocked if they sign one of those guys yet……. likely the last one available because he’ll be the cheapest. Also, “in need of left handed relief help”……. is that really a “problem” that needs to be addressed? If that’s your team’s weakness I think you’re doing just fine. Also, when your back end of the pen consists of Davis, Rondon, Strop, and Edwards does it really matter who’s pitching the 6th inning?
lesterdnightfly
Cards need to find upgrades up the middle defensively. Molina’s defense has been in steady decline. Diaz has no range and a shaky glove at SS. Wong and Fowler are passable.
They need to improve OBP drastically instead of hitting solo homers. Fowler will help there, but he’s one guy.
They also need a crash course in effective baserunning and in-game savvy in general. Matheny can’t teach them these things; he struggles with the lineup card alone.
Why do you hide yourself in Florida, Jose Oquendo?
johnnya
Yep and Mo wants to feed us this bullshit that their building their defense around Wong at second. Lmao
ttelbonk
Wong is near gold glove caliber. Offense needs to be given a chance by Matheny. It was fine in 2105.
ttelbonk
2015
lesterdnightfly
Wong is: “Near gold glove caliber.”… “Near All Star….”
“Near” is the equivalent of Warning-Track Power. And just as unlikely to be helpful.
We’ve heard this refrain before. Of course Mo and his minions are talking him up. He wants something useful in a trade to justify the $25 Million deal he gave the guy.
As I’ve said, Wong is Gordon Beckham 2.0 with a bad contract.
Dock_Elvis
Wong has already exceeded Gordon Beckham in my mind…Beckham had like a good half when he was called up as the next Jeff Kent.
I’m not sure you’re analogy works. Warning track power means an out….its no better than infield power. Having NEARLY gold glove defense is valuable, as only one player at the position can actually be the best. Thats like saying a guy NEARLY led the league in hr and didnt so therefore its not value. Warning track power is a 370ft out.