10:32pm: Arenado will receive another guaranteed year on his contract for roughly $15MM, per MLB Network’s Jon Heyman, who adds that he could waive his no-trade clause as early as Saturday.
8:51pm: The Cardinals and Rockies have swung an enormously impactful trade centering on Colorado third baseman Nolan Arenado, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic was among those to report. The Rockies will send around $50MM to the Cardinals in the deal, according to Rosenthal, who adds that it likely won’t be official tonight and perhaps won’t go through this weekend.
Arenado has a full no-trade clause, though Rosenthal and Nick Groke of The Athletic reported earlier this week that he is likely to waive it in order to join the Cardinals. The five-time All-Star also has an opt-out clause in the seven-year, $234MM extension he signed with the Rockies before the 2019 campaign. But Arenado would still be able to opt out after 2021, he’d get an additional opt-out after ’22 and he would keep his full no-trade clause, Rosenthal tweets. He still has $199MM left on his pact over the next six years.
This has been a low-profile winter for St. Louis and the rest of its competition in the National League Central competition, but the Cardinals have suddenly come alive after a long slumber. Before agreeing to acquire Arenado, they re-signed right-hander Adam Wainwright, and indications are that they’ll bring back catcher Yadier Molina. Of course, in terms of impact, Wainwright and Molina pale in comparison to Arenado, one of baseball’s highest-profile stars. The well-rounded Arenado, who will turn 30 in April, has batted .293/.349/.541 with 235 home runs in 4,558 plate appearances since he debuted in 2013. Arenado has also totaled a whopping 120 Defensive Runs Saved and a 56.4 Ultimate Zone Rating at third base, where he has won eight straight Gold Gloves.
While Arenado was hugely successful in Colorado, his relationship with the team was – in a word – rocky over the past couple years. The Rockies were a playoff team from 2017-18, but they’ve dropped off drastically since. After the club fell well shy of a playoff spot in 2019, Arenado made it known he was unhappy with the direction of the franchise, saying he felt “disrespected.” Arenado frequented trade rumors then, but the Rockies retained him during what turned into another subpar year for the organization. It was also a disappointing campaign for Arenado, who slashed a career-worst .253/.303/.434 with eight homers in 201 PA.
Even though 2020 didn’t go as planned for Arenado, the Cardinals are clearly banking on him to serve as their long-term solution at third base. The team primarily used Matt Carpenter and Tommy Edman there last season, which was a playoff year. However, Carpenter went through his second straight below-average year, and he’s only signed for one more season. Carpenter is due to earn $18.5MM in 2021, while his $18.5MM option for 2022 is sure to be bought out for $2MM if he’s still with the Cardinals. Meanwhile, the versatile Edman could be the Cardinals’ pick at second base.
The Arenado pickup will obviously be a significant investment for the Cardinals, whose chairman, Bill DeWitt Jr., drew ire last summer for saying baseball’s not a “very profitable industry.” But the Cardinals suddenly do look as if they’re aiming to take over the NL Central in 2021, especially with none of their other division rivals – the reigning champion Cubs, Reds, Brewers or Pirates – doing much to better themselves this offseason. Certainly, if the Arenado trade is finalized, it will be the biggest acquisition in the division this winter.
The Rockies, on the other hand, looked to be in for a third consecutive lean year in 2021 before trading Arenado, and that’s all the more true with the face of their franchise on his way out the door. They’ll likely acquire lefty Austin Gomber as part of the return, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports. Rosenthal names first baseman Luken Baker, outfielder Jhon Torres, and righties Jake Woodford and Angel Rondon as other possible names the Rockies could acquire. Gomber debuted in the majors in 2018 and has posted a respectable 3.72 ERA over 104 innings, though that production obviously falls quite a bit short of the impact Arenado has made.
With Arenado leaving, the question now is whether the Rockies will deal shortstop Trevor Story, who’s entering his platform year. Story would no doubt bring back a sizable return in a trade, as he is among the top players in the game at his position. It would seem to make sense for the Rockies to part with him if they’re not expecting to contend in 2021, but they may be interested in extending him, Mark Feinsand of MLB.com relays.
Brandon Karam
WOW, $50 MIL going to St. Louis? Are the Rockies gonna have any money to build a team in the future?
1bertu
yeah theyll be very competitive by 2028
Hosmer for HOF
Lol this poor team might as well do what the Pittsburgh Pirates are doing. Props to the Cards for thinking big
Gwynning's Anal Lover
I thought he was going to the Pirates.
jturk
cwalla24
Yeah did I miss an article that said Neil Huntington is working for the Rockies now?!?
jdgoat
They better be getting an unreal package back or else this is embarrassing. You’re trading your best player in franchise history, and chipping in 50 million dollars to do so? Bold strategy.
ABCD
Rox won’t be getting much back.
YourDreamGM
For 50 million they better be getting back much.
ABCD
It’s a salary dump on Colorado’s part.
camdog23
For the money back? Obvious to me that they just paid for better prospects but okay dude
YourDreamGM
Sure is, but no need to eat that much money. They are getting value back.
rct
They’re sending $50 million (or 1/4 of the $200 million remaining). Not much of a salary dump. They should be getting some decent pieces back.
dbisawesome
They should have tried to get Gorman smh
Yankee Clipper
It may also include Woodford or Rondon according to Rosenthal.
ABCD
So, in other words, the Cards get Arenado by taking on 3/4 of his salary and sending no top prospects.
Pretty good for the Cards if Nolan’s bat holds up and he doesn’t opt out. He’ll always field like Brooks Robinson if he doesn’t get injured.
Balk
I think you’re right. At least one of them
Balk
Negative jocpedersonsmom…place my bets they grab one of woodford or Rondon for at least some of the 50 mill.
rct
@jocpedersonsmom: No. The Cardinals are getting a top talent at a 25% discount. That costs prospects. You’re acting as though Arenado isn’t any good.
VonPurpleHayes
…salary dump and yet they’re still paying 50mm? doesn’t quite add up. Cards have to be giving them something.
ABCD
Nolan is great. He’s just paid too much.
Chemo850
Uhhh you might wanna look up the definition of a salary dump. It usually doesn’t involve you paying 50 million. They’ll get decent players in return here. They wouldn’t have agreed to pay 50 million otherwise. He was a lock to opt out of that contract after this season, hence there wouldn’t have been anything to “dump” since his salary up to his opt out would have been significantly less than the 50 million they just paid out. Whichhhhhhhh tells me Nolan just agreed to waive his opt out option and finish his contract for the Cardinals since the 50 million amount indicates the Cardinals expect to pay him his salary beyond his opt out year. Boom. Mic drop. Get schooled son. I’m here Monday-Friday 8-5 pm EST.
rct
@jocpedersonsmom: So please explain what you think the Cardinals sent back to acquire Nolan Arenado on what is now (after the $50 million discount) a 6 year, $150 million deal. You don’t think any good pieces are heading to Colorado?
The Natural
Arenado can be a bit of a Richard Cranium, they dumped salary and attitude.
SashaBanksFan
The Poet Laureate?
ABCD
I don’t think top prospects like Carlson, Liberatore, Gorman, Herrera will be involved.
ABCD
Article says Nolan is picking up an additional optout in order to come to STL.
norcalblue
You don’t get it man. They gave him away and had to pay to do it.
Cap & Crunch
Salary dump or prospect buy….we shall see
I think the latter but Ive been wrong before. These are strange times
mac1brad
Moron. No way he’d opt out of his contract after this season!
Yankee Clipper
Can anyone please tell the Rox that a little team called the Yankees is looking for a SS, preferably for team prospects in the 20-50 range? And, we will accept, meh, 10M along with him. Git R Dun
fox471 Dave
Cubfever- not sure many got the richard cranium reference. You are obviously not from Illinois. Well played.
mattmooney33
Not sure how Arenando is getting paid too much. The Rockies agreed to the contract and signs the pay checks. You mean the Rockies offered too much?
themed
Hey mom you changed your name from schwabers mom I seen. Cards just went miles ahead of the cubs didn’t they?
Flyby
Gleybar for Story and the rox kick in the difference to keep the yanks under the salary cap.
ABCD
Nice pickup for the Cards, but miles ahead? Don’t get cocky, themed. Gotta still play the games.
1984wasntamanual
A lock to opt out, huh? Yeah, you’re certainly schooling people. So much stupid….
Chemo850
After what Rendon got last year you don’t think this guy can pull 150 million in free agency? Hell, Springer just pulled 150 million and he’s half the player. Seems to me sir like you are the M.O.R.O.N
themed
Should have kept your name mom and changed teams. Your team is falling fast. One and done for another 108 years. Can’t stop laughing.
gregorym
Um question. After the Yankees signed DJ where does Story fit. Gio Torres DJ Voit. Go Yankees.
looiebelongsinthehall
First Stanton. Now more money with Arenado moving. Mid to small size teams need to think twice about long term commitments. If San Diego doesn’t soon win am I the only one who sees them dumping Machado in two years? Philly is large enough to absorb a lot of costs but if DD doesn’t win in his time there, I expect Harper to soon be after Machado. Just my take.
Prospectnvstr
cubfever7: The Rockies “dumped” $50,000,000.00 IN ADDITION to Arenado. The money is well over what they would be paying him this season. The Rockies will be getting some decent pieces back, not the top guys from the farm system, but decent pieces.
Very Barry
A salary dump due to a looming opt out date. No other real option left.
The Natural
Thanks. Born and raised in Chicago though.
Lol Trumpets mad
He’ll be a bust outside of coors. My prediction.
Cap & Crunch
Whoes gonna be the buyers looie?
Yankees already have Stanton , Dodgers wont want to go that route, and I think the Red Sox are over that route as well. Z in Sf isnt thay type of fellow…..
Sd will need Sd to pull that trade off….or get trader Jerry on a bender again
realsox
Chemo850: Better not give up your day job yet, son. As a prognosticator you have a lot to learn. In these uncertain times, the chances of Arenado opting out after this season and turning his back on the remaining $175 million are slim. And if the Cardinals win the division and advance in the playoffs, the chances are slimmer still.
northsidecrossrifles
@themed how are the cubs falling fast? Losing Darvish hurts, but this time last year his contract was nearly untradeable and he has an extensive injury history. They easily won the central with their 5 best offensive players drastically underperforming and to expect that to happen next year isn’t realistic. Lester, chatwood, and schwarber weren’t difference makers; 2 back back of the rotation/swing man types and a guy who never lived up to the hype. They need another decent starter (preferable 2) on a one year pillow contract, and another solid veteran bullpen arm, and even without that they’ll be competitive in the weak NL central. Pederson is a slight upgrade from Schwarber, and Davies is a serviceable 3/4 starter. Arenado should make STL the clear favorite, but they still aren’t far ahead of cubs, reds, or brewers. You also have to remember Arenado barely has a 780 OPS outside of Coors, so his bat isn’t exactly a sure thing. Another factor down the road is this adds a massive payroll commitment to STL future payroll, which could hinder their aggressiveness in terms of realistic ability to add impact talent in what is going to be a historic 2022 FA class, while Chicago has barely 40 mil in future payroll after 2021. I still like the move for the cards, but I wouldn’t be counting the reds, brewers, or cubs out just yet
Mrivers
Rockies won’t do that trade.
Hammerin' Hank
Exactly. They’re not getting any top prospects back. They had to chip in 50 million just to ensure that the Cardinals would take the rest of the contract off their books.
jturk
Read his home away splits as a hitter. No doubting his elite glove, but he won’t be the same hitter
looiebelongsinthehall
Not really sure he would have gotten as long or huge contract if he played it out. To get one extra year at $15m, CO had to cover $50m of the overall contract. In the COVID world and it’s hopefully soon aftermath, would he really have opted out?
looiebelongsinthehall
Cap, once the pandemic ends and fans return, I believe big market clubs including Boston will become aggressive as they try to regain fannies into seats. Many will jump back but others have been lost and some who may want to, simply can no longer afford to go to games like they did before. Combine that with how the Red Sox bought AO. It will be interesting to see the return going to CO given they had to kick in so much money. I think smaller clubs who don’t draw like Oakland and Tampa will be squeezed big time especially if the next CBA is not as favorable to them. Look already at how they’ve lost valuable players this off season.
StlSwifty
I looked em up and they make me a little skeptical. Hope he holds up!
letmeclearmythroat74
Mac1brad … is it necessary to name call? This is a baseball discussion amongst fans… are we on the back of the school bud in 3rd grade? Just because someone doesn’t agree with your take in a subject, you get satisfaction of calling them a name. I think most of the people on here would quickly discredit anything you post … just saying, I wouldn’t type something that you wouldn’t say if the person was right in front of you…. it makes you look completely classless.
Spike 13
I don’t think anyone opts out of a 199/6 contract given the current financial-health climate. Especially when you tack on 15 extra for your 37 years old season. I could be wrong.
1984wasntamanual
150m would be less than what’s remaining on his contract after this year. But please, keep making yourself look stupid.
beerncheese
@northside you are spot on. Not often I agree with a cubbie fan but NL Central is still wide open even though Cards making strong moves this week.
Jos signing shows Cubs will compete. Off-season still in progress.
BTW You will like Davies. Wish brewers still had him. He is a great piece for any rotation.
ChiSox_Fan
Rockies are getting nada.
SimbaHOF2019
He was not a lock to opt out because he would not get near the money he already has coming. he probably would lose $50 million! hence the pay down.
Of course the Cards want to keep him. They’ve wanted him for years..
Boom.
VonPurpleHayes
@jturk Every single player in the game has better home stats than away stats. It has less to do with where you play than you think. Nolan is going to be just fine in Saint Louos.
Mikel Grady
He is .253 8 hr good
Mikel Grady
It separates cheeseheads from Richard cranium (Dick Heads) the Wisconsin Illinois state line
Mikel Grady
Cubs lineup still seems better to me . Of course trading Bryant or Contreras changes things . If Cubs add Wong even better. Other than goldschmidt dejong(meh) and arenado what do they have ? Bader Molina and two other bum outfielders and second baseman ? Cards will win with pitching if they win division and then swept in playoffs . This may make Cubs decide to trade Bryant and Contreras sooner than later . Trevor Bauer still out there for Cubs ?
Mikel Grady
How many teams would love that 1 World Series . Love the white six enthusiasm but only one team wins each year . Baseball tougher than nba and football just ask buccaneers fans . Only 4 teams have won a real 162 game World Series since Cubs did. Only one wins this year so everyone will be win Cubs watching someone hoist trophy .
Mikel Grady
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Names possibly going to Rockies include LHP Austin Gomber, 1B Luken Baker, OF Jhon Torres. Return also might include RHP Jake Woodford or RHP Angel Rondón. Exact package not confirmed. twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/13553459191857438…
Mikel Grady
Northsidecrossrifles good post , Cub haters if Darvish stayed would be man he played all central teams in 2020 who suck if he pitched against dodgers and braves and Padres he would get shelled . Now Cubs trade him he is the best Pitcher in all of baseball. I think Davies will put up comparable numbers to Darvish and Darvish last year will be a albatross. Getting 17 year olds in trade was for when Cubs will be great again . In line with last couple drafts . If traded for current stud prospects their clock would start before Cubs reload .
Benjamin Young
Machado has potential for that. I think Harper less-so. The latter is a lot younger and tbh, these guys still have a ton of production in the tank. The market is going through a ton right now but these teams have money to spend on FAs. That goes for San Diego just as well as Colorado really.
Skeptical
Bull. I was looking at some splits over at fangraphs the other day. Josh Bell’s splits have him significantly better on the road. Ballparks matter. Arenado was significantly better at home than on the road.. Not sure how Busch plays but I can’t imagine it plays as well for batters, especially power, as Coors does.
jbigz12
You’re taking Josh Bell as one piece of anecdotal evidence. I could list DJ lemahieu aa a guy who hit much better at home in Colorado and left and ended up doing even better.
Arenado won’t get the Coors boost but almost everyone hits better at home. His splits could easily not be as drastic once he moves to another stadium. We all know the glove plays. We’ll see what level we get w the bat.
drasco036
It will be interesting to see the return and how the money will be paid to St. Louis. The Cardinals added another opt out clause and another year with 15 million or so in guaranteed money…
It’s a good move by the Cardinals (which I hate)…
Iago407
They’re not trading Todd Helton.
paddyo furnichuh
@JDGoat, “ arguably”their best player in history. If Arenado produces with more even splits(at a slightly lower level) on another team, then that claim may hold true.
jimmyz
Have to think Todd Helton still has something to say about being the franchise icon. Arenado is certainly in that conversation but seems to me there’s a little recency bias baked in there too.
Signed,
Not a Rockies fan but a family member of mine is so I follow them a bit
jbigz12
Todd Helton is the best player in Their history. Recency bias is certainly baked in. Arenado did have a chance to be that guy had he stayed another 5 years and produced. But Todd did it for 16 in Colorado.
Vasool
They didn’t trade Larry walker…what are you talking about.
stlcards0911
They did to trade Larry walker? St. Louis 2004 at the deadline
Dock_Elvis
Best player in franchise history is a bit of a stretch. Larry Walker built a Hall of Fame career there. Todd Helton wasn’t too shabby. I’d add Matt Holliday, Andres Gallaraga, and Troy Tulowitzki in. But Arenado is certainly special.
damascusj
Best in franchise history?! Not likely. The todd heltons, tulowitzkys, cargos, and Larry walkers of the world would have a few words with you
Francys01
Great. This is very surprising for me, I didn’t think he was going to be traded. I feel very good having Arenado with the Cardinals. All we need now is Yadi. After that we can sign someone to play second base.
outhaus33
Thats what Tommy edman is for
Buster79
I hope they add carpenter to the deal, that’s the only way he’ll stop playing him.
Lanidrac
Carpenter can also play 2B when needed if he’s not part of the trade and manages any kind of a rebound. The Edman/Carpenter platoon they’ve essentially had the last couple years just shifts from 3B to 2B.
oldmansteve
Carpenter hasn’t played 2B since 2018 and hasn’t looked good defensively there since 2015. There is no way Carpenter gets meaningful innings there this season. It is Edman’s job to lose right now. Carpenter’s only shot for playing time is at DH potentially or as a lefty replacement for Goldy or Arenado.
Balk
Steve Nebraska No way in hell carpenter is a lefty replacement for Goldy or arenado! Dude will be playing on off days maybe.
oldmansteve
That’s what I mean. He is a bench bat to give them a day off ideally versus a RHP. I think you assumed I meant a platoon bat. Absolutely not. He’ll get a start a week unless the DH is in the NL
Benjamin Young
Aren’t both Edman and Carp lefties? Man I miss baseball haha I couldn’t answer that for myself. How would that platoon work?
oldmansteve
Edman is a switch hitter
stlcards0911
I mean if he bounces back and hits 25-30 home runs he will(I know not likely)…. the 4 other infielders… Molina dejong nado and goldy were all gg finalists last year…. If carp hits at all he will play a lot of 2nd
fox471 Dave
Why Yadi? His best years are a few behind him.
Francys01
Yadi is a leader in the Cardinals organization.
mcmillankmm
I am assuming that’s over the course of Arenado’s remaining years?
RedbirdJodella
Scares me to think who we’re giving them for that money!
User 4245925809
Or reasons to watch now.. I can recommend putting a 20YO Warren Zevon song on endless loop tho: “Things to do in Denver when ur dead”. It fits perfectly that Rockie team now.
GoLandCrabs
This right here is why owners like Munfort should not be allowed to own a team. Arenado is a star and under no circumstance should you be eating 50 million to trade him.
Dock_Elvis
Wont pay to field his own team, but will pay another 50M to field his All Star 3B for them. Baseball has some very serious economic issues to work out..the disconnect is deafening.
Four4fore
Saved $149 Mil and got back 1 serviceable Major league pitcher (Gomber) probably another prospect pitcher (Rondon/Woodford), Baker has power that could one day play at Coors and Torres who can go get it in CF.
If they wait they get an opt out or get to pay another $199 mill. Could be a good return in the long term.
bighiggy
I feel like the Rockies went more quantity over quality like most teams have this off season. But I think gomber, baker, woodford and Torres are good gets. Rondon has a big upside but not sure how his stuff would play in Coors. Gomber and woodford both have groundball tendencies which could be great. Torres has a huge amount of potential and was our only legit outfield prospect after carlson. Baker is just a moonshot hitter who cant run or field, so who knows. But I think the return was good
1984wasntamanual
They’ve been just outside the top 10 in payroll the last couple years, how is that not paying to field a team?
larry48
Whoever goes to Colorado they will suck for the next decade, maybe not in 2032.
Benjamin Young
Good post. Torres and Woodford make this a good start from an upside perspective. Monfort and the GM did a well enough job. Absent Carlson, Gorman or Liberatore, these prospects represent the system’s upside.
Deadguy
Golandcrabs the Rockies got 50 mil in young controllable pitching in Gomber and Woodford alone both of them are under arbitration control for 5 years.
GoLandCrabs
Rockies shouldn’t have to buy them…they are giving up Nolan Arenado ffs.
1984wasntamanual
Money matters. It’s Nolan and his bad contract.
iverbure
Just like with the Stanton trade the simpletons don’t understand leverage, NTC and opt outs. Rockies are the clear winner just like the marlins clearly won the Stanton deal.
jbigz12
The difference is Nolan Arenado is highly productive and a low injury risk. Only a “simpleton” would compare the two. Mega deals typically don’t have surplus value. So the 50 MM kicked in helps the Cardinals in that aspect. A pretty good deal for them here.
GoLandCrabs
Stanton had almost 300 million left on his dead lol. Cardinals just got Arenado below market value. You don’t think he is worth 150 mil??? This must be an owners burner account.
GoLandCrabs
Deal**
jbigz12
The risk that Arenado falls off a cliff is obviously there. But it is for any player you sign to a deal like this. Could go bad—that’s the risk you take when you give out 7 figure deals. But they gave up B level prospects and only paid 150 or so million for the 2nd best defensive 3B in the game. Who typically swings it pretty well too.
Deadguy
Seems like a pretty good deal for both ends. For many years the Cardinals have been needing to deal from starting pitching to acquire somebody who can hit. Gotta love this. Woodford, and Gomber both can pitch. Rockies will have both of them under team control for half a decade at least? I could have seen both in crowded Cardinals rotation for years. With Arenado sure to Opt out after 2021 if he remained with the Rockies it made sense to get pitching while you still could. Wonder if Arenado stays with the Cardinals long term?
giantsphan12
Well, I’m a Cards fan, but not one who has complained that Mo and DeWitt were ssoooooo lame this off-season like many on this board. To all of you who have been so bummed about the “do nothing Cardinals” enjoy! Arenado is a huge acquisition for the Red Birds! They just (likely) won the NL Central with this one move!
seamaholic 2
It’s not going all at once obviously. And if Arenado opts out next year, the Rockies will be free and clear. To me, the report that Arenado did NOT waive his opt out is the most interesting part of the trade. Watch out St Louis.
iverbure
Lol he ain’t opting out. Be hilarious though. Opt out and then he can’t find that contract on the free market and all the marks here for Boras complain that baseball is broke.
Mjshof
Opt out and lose like Realmuto and Sprewell who turned down better deals than they signed
Redstitch108* 2
Meanwhile, the Los Angeles Angels continue to…………do nothing to bolster their subpar pitching staff.
Loling @ you
This just in cardinals are still bad, what rotation relying on the corpse of wainwright and miles mikolas? Outside of arenado (who still needs to disprove coors effect) and goldy that lineup is bad. I expect arenado to opt out after 1 season of getting spanked by Braves, mets, padres and dodgers.
Cardsfanatik redux
your bitterness is showing. Cardinal’s have pitching…. and plenty of it. their lineup is now one of the best in the N.L. No, I didn’t say THE best, I said ONE of the best. Your life so miserable you have to make things up in chats to troll? Every single team has holes, even those you just mentioned.
iverbure
And that’s got to do with this deal how?
ctyank7
The Arenado deal is a sad betrayal of some very loyal fans by an ownership that is incapable of building a winning team.
chippahawk
Wish my gm made trades like this for icons like Matt Holliday, goldy, and now arenado. What a treat but I guess we get Hardee’s so there’s that.
xalz
Braves have made moves for shorter contract impact bats like Josh Donaldson, Ozuna, and… Markakis (eureka). Starting was locked up early in the offseason. They also locked up Albies and Acuna to long term deals and are back in a competitive position putting pennant banners in the rafters. There is plenty of room to play in the market every year the way the Braves are managing.
I still expected Atlanta to put another big contract or two in the books in the coming years. The team is not just now in 2021 what many of us thought would be its true playoff window either, meaning the last two years has worked out great.
Once the right deal presents itself, the franchise will make more splashes. Freddie will extend, the DH will likely be in the NL come 2022, and there is a deep Free Agent class next year. Look to more trades and a couple more signings this season with a possibility of a big trade. It’s a great time to be a Brave.I
Bold move by Saint Louis and others to move on the acquisition market, while society at large adapts to a changing economic settings. Arenado definitely improves their outlook.
southsidebatman
Holy guacamole’
Dotnet22
Awesome awesome awesome
Oddvark
wowza
min19
Go big or go home!
ron swanson 2
Waste of money. They will regret this. He’s barely above league average outside of Coors.
Brew’88
You can’t win the GG every year by only being average on the road.
Yankee Clipper
Isn’t that what the platinum gloves are for? The “only gold glove at home” guys?
MrMet1979 2
I believe he’s talking about Arenado’s splits outside of Coors Field.
cards81
People always talk about the split…I will simply say look at Matt Holiday…and people quiet down
ron swanson 2
Clearly meaning offensively, the Coors Field effect.
fox471 Dave
Check out Larry Walker’s road record. Enough with the splits.
Jeff Zanghi
I feel like steroids also played a role in Larry Walkers numbers… so yeah he had his best years at Coors… I don’t think he can be used as a comp to players today because he pretty obviously was juiced up once he got to Col
AVinny GarSac
Did YOU check out Walker’s splits?
1995: 80 points higher in BA, 40 points higher OBP, double HR at home
1996: 250 points higher BA, 230 points higher OBP, double HR at home
1997: 40 points higher BA, 20 points higher OBP, 9 fewer HR at home
1998: 110 points higher BA, 80 points higher OBP, triple the HR at home
1999: 180 points higher BA, 150 points higher OBP, double the HR at home
2000: 100 points higher BA, 75 points higher OBP, double the HR at home
2001: 110 points higher BA, 70 points higher OBP, 2 more HR at home
2002: 50 points higher BA, 70 points higher OBP, double HR at home
Literally the only season Walker had in Colorado where his road stats were remotely close to his home stats was 1997. It’s also the only year where his road stats reflected that of an All Star, let alone a HoFer. Awful funny that Walker was never thought to have such potential through age 28 with the Expos… but turned into a hitting god in that thin air. Without Coors Field, Larry Walker has to buy a ticket to get into Cooperstown just like the rest of us.
Now go check the splits of Helton, Bichette, Castilla, Tulo, CarGo. There’s a reason all but Helton performed far worse when not wearing a Rockies uniform. The only reason Helton didn’t is because he was too intelligent to leave. In fact, the only player to leave Colorado and not have a significant reduction in offensive production has been LeMahieu. Even Holliday fell from being the next Larry Walker to a mere Magglio Ordonez with less power.
Every single former Rockie not named LeMahieu, performed equal to OR BELOW his road stats after leaving Colorado. Why should we expect Arenado to be any different? He doesn’t have the same set of tools, ability, and approach that DJL does, As such, he doesn’t have the same likelihood of holding up.
Nolan should still fair well, but the odds are against him hitting at an All Star level outside of Colorado.
jlmini10
It’s true that almost every player for the Rockies has severe home/road splits. This is due to the fact that breaking balls break less and balls fly further in Colorado than in any other park. Colorado players play half their games there, and it is hard to adjust to the differences in pitch movement on the road, less balls fall in for hits (smaller fields than the massive Coors), and less homeruns are hit due to the ball not flying out as easy.
While I wouldn’t expect Arenado to achieve his same stat line in STL, I would expect his WRC+ to be similar due to this stat being adjusted for park factors. When players move from Colorado elsewhere, they aren’t subjected to these extreme park effects half the time, and their splits become much less pronounced.
Ryan W
Andres Gallaraga
larry48
With no one to protect Arenado, he may hit with bases empty, but he will walk if the batter behind him sucks. Arenado will get irritated and start chasing pitches and the average goes down.
justkidding
You could argue that Yankee stadium is as much a hitters paradise as Coors field when looking at DJL’s stats.
crumpy24
What about DJ Lemahieu?
Yankee Clipper
Same, he sucks outside Coors also… don’t you watch baseball?!
crumpy24
That’s what I mean. Players sometimes become better once they leave Coors
YourDreamGM
Name 3 besides DJL.
jk
holliday
pierre
fowler
crumpy24
I probably shouldn’t have said much better but Dexter Fowler, Matt Holliday, and Andres Galarraga are examples are 3 players that I can name off the top of my head that did just fine after they left the Rockies
cards81
Matt holiday and DJ are all that is needed…that’s all I heard when the cardinals signed Holiday….the splits blah blah…Holiday is one of the best hitters to put on the cardinals uniform and that says a lot
Joe Carters walkoff
Well Larry Walker was equally good everywhere he played. Numbers similar to expos. Just off top of my head. Not a rockies guy though
stan lee the manly
Matt Holliday, Larry Walker, Corey Dickerson. Walker is more of a “continued to mash” rather than got better, but these three all hit the crap out of the ball after leaving Colorado.
MrMet1979 2
All three of those players had their best years in Colorado. They were good when they left but not nearly as good. Big Cat hit .370 one year at Coors Field. Fowler has been an average player his whole career. His strength is getting on base and scoring runs. Holliday was a solid player after he left put up solid numbers in STL
MrMet1979 2
No he wasn’t as good. Larry Walker never came close to hitting .370 with 49HRS and 130 RBI in an Expos uniform. That’s a fail bro.
MrMet1979 2
All their best years were in Colorado. You need to look up Walker’s numbers before you post bro
YourDreamGM
Not seeing anyone being better listed. Maybe slightly with cherry picking the young player and late bloomer. Mostly not as good. Some close to being the same. I don’t hate Nolan. Just coors is best case scenario. Batting average is likely to go down. Fans look at the players leaving. Baseball people look at visiting players. Research whoever you want. Buster Cody Goldy… Players hit better at coors. Doesn’t mean coors players can’t hit elsewhere. To expect to be better outside of coors is too much to ask.
fox471 Dave
Right about Walker.
Jean Matrac
Andres Gallaraga – 126 OPS+ in Col., 141 OPS+ in Atl.
Ellis Burks – 128 OPS+ in Col., 151 OPS+ in SF
Matt Holiday – 131 OPS+ in Col., 138 OPS+ in StL.
MrMet1979 2
Ellis Burks had a year in Colorado when he hit .344 40 HRS 120RBIs 40 2Bs and 142 runs scored. Just saying.
Jean Matrac
MrMet:
Do you not understand OPS+? That year in Col., 1996, he had an OPS+ of 149.
In 2000, he hit .344/.409/.606 with 31 HRs in SF for an OPS+ of 163.
Plus, that RBI stat is not a reliable. It depended too much on players getting on base in front of Burks.
MrMet1979 2
Also I don’t know if its fair to compare The Big Cat two years in Atlanta to five HOF level seasons in Colorado. But I understand your point he and Burks were still hitting a high level on other teams although their best years were still in Colorado.
seamaholic 2
Give me a list of players who declined (park adjusted) after leaving Coors. The only one I can think of is Tulowitski, and he started sucking before the Rockies traded him.
MrMet1979 2
Vinny Castilla, Brad Hawpe and Garrett Atkins comes to mind off the top of my head. A lot of their sluggers usually finish their careers in Colorado or play there well into their 30s.
AVinny GarSac
@JK Wrong, wrong… and wrong.
mydadleftme
You mean the guy who went to the other little league park and still has some pretty drastic splits?
802Ghost
To be fair, DJ has some pretty skewed stats (power wise) at home vs away in 2020 and 2019.
Dodgerbleu
This. I think NY is much worse. Forget DJLM, Aaron Judge has the worst home/road splits I’ve ever seen. 3x to 4x more dramatic than Arenado. No one says he sucks.
Yankee Clipper
They’re getting an extra year as well. That’s only because he injures himself every time he plays on the road.
ctyank7
Judge is injury prone and thus, unreliable.
larry48
Lemahieu was pitched to because of the Yankees line up, go look who batted after Lemahieu.
YourDreamGM
Limited sample but he always did good at Busch. If he puts up 950 ops then the coors theory is done. I think he will be 850.
Brew’88
Trying to distinguish the between Busch and Coors is frankly a watered down conversation when you could just be drinking’ a quality microbrew.
Lanidrac
Arenado is a career .263/.322/.471 hitter outside of Coors Field. That is quite a bit worse than his career averages but still significantly above league average. Besides, those numbers will likely go up once he adjusts to playing almost all his games away from Coors.
Besides, that’s not even considering his great defense.
Ma4170
And those numbers count his first couple of years as a young guy acclimating to MLB… his road splits 2017-20 are much better.. I believe 846 ops and a 36hr 103rbi 162 game average… but people love to look at the full career to make a point.. if his shoulder is healthy, he’s a beast, and may be the best defender in the game.. mad my Mets didn’t get him
MrMet1979 2
I’m not. Arenado might’ve flopped in NY. No media pressure in Denver
oldmansteve
Players do not care about “media pressure”. This is a dumb myth New Yorkers invented to make themselves feel more important than they are.
MrMet1979 2
Then why do All Stars have great careers in small markets and then come to NY and flop. It’s a totally different environment bro especially when it comes to baseball. Have you ever heard of Jason Bay, Jeff Kent, Jack McDowell, Kenny Rogers, Terry Muholland, Carlos Baerga, Randy Johnson, Sonny Gray, Jacoby Ellsbury,Edwin Diaz, Roberto Alomar. It’s a little more than a myth I’m afraid.
oldmansteve
So older players go to New York and aren’t as good as when they were younger? I’m shocked! SHOCKED!
Also Edwin Diaz was great last year, what are you talking about?
MrMet1979 2
Diaz was great in 2020 after they took his ass out of the closers role. He’s been garbage as a Met he and Familla kept them out the postseaon in 2019.
stormie
Every team has made trades where the players they got weren’t as good anymore, you act like that’s some sort of unique phenomenon that only NY teams have to deal with.
Hammerin' Hank
It’s mostly just a myth. Arenado will be fine wherever he plays.
MrMet1979 2
A .799 OPS is significantly above average? Wtf? But yes the platinum glove at 3B is awfully tempting
oldmansteve
That isn’t significantly above average. MLB average is around .780. He has a career 108 wRC+ on the road, that means his is 8% above average. His career wRC+ is 128, I think. So he is only 80% the player on the road as he is at home.
Yankee Clipper
One can get too caught up in numbers as well. I look at it this way, great players (Arenado, Holliday, DJL, etc) are simply that. We can try to say it’s small stadium, Coors stadium, or whatever other factor we believe plays into their hitting. But, it’s simply great hitting, otherwise many other players would mirror their numbers, and they cannot do it.
SalaryCapMyth
It’s almost as though MOST players have better home numbers than road numbers.
Mike Trout
Home: .284/.450/.656
Road: .298/.428/.635
Mookie Betts
Home: .314/.408/.977
Road: .275/.373/.853
Freddie Freeman
Home: .276/.368/.552
Road: .313/.419/.547
Francisco Lindor
Home: .289/.349/.513
Road: .280/.322/.523
Cody Bellinger
Home: .304/.402/.650
Road: .306/.410/.608
Christian Yelich
Home: .347/.451/.750
Road: .312/.409/.597
Anthony Rizzo
Home: .354/.459/.571
Road: .233/.351/.469
Xander Bogaerts
Home: .337/.409/.592
Road: .282/.359/.518
These are 2019 numbers for these players. There are exceptions but generally speaking, players are better at home than on the road. Colorado is certainly going to lead to larger home road splits than other parks I imagine but we make to much out of it.
Yankee Clipper
Whoa! Rizzo is huge!
oldmansteve
Keep in mind this is just one season. Takes about 3 to see any statistic trend
SalaryCapMyth
It IS multiple data points, though, so you can develop a hypothesis. If you feel my examples are misleading than please feel free to post opposing evidence to the contrary. Not intending to be snarky with that last comment.
YourDreamGM
If you don’t cherry pick stats most players splits are fairly close. If you play at home in Colorado Boston Milwaukee etc you will usually see a big difference. Works the other way as well though not as drastically. But look at Yelich splits from Miami, much better road splits. A short porch in ny will boost your hr numbers. The green monster in Boston is great for your batting average and doubles.
Your numbers at home should be better. Usually are. Some ball parks just really inflate numbers for most players. A coors hr is legit. Its the giant outfield that boost batting averages and triples. Nolan could hit 30 40 hrs anywhere.
SalaryCapMyth
@YourDreamGM. What you call cherry picking I call examples for my argument. What are you even disagreeing with when you say yourself “Your numbers at home should be better. Usually are.”? Especially when I am not arguing about differences but rather degrees. But hey, if you would like to demonstrate statistically that I’m wrong, I welcome it.
YourDreamGM
Trout Lindor Bellinger are fine examples. Rest of your examples are cherry picked or simply not the best examples to use. Why not look at freeman’s entire career? What not bryant or baez instead of rizzo? Yelich hit better on the road. Brewers seen this and how his swing fits perfect for their park and acquired him. How about devers a left handed hitter in Boston instead of two righties. Let’s wait and see mookies splits in 2021 2022, might be closer not bashing balls off the green monster. Not that his are as far apart as bogarts. Just saying some of your choices are obvious to why their home numbers are better.
But yes players generally should be better at home. If it’s possible you try to draft and certainly sign free agents whose game fits your ball park and division. There are mysteries though like rizzo. My wild guess is he doesn’t sleep well on the road. Stanton, maybe just a fluke or less pressure on the road. Judge, I can’t even take a wild guess. I know with bogarts though it’s the giant wall in left field.
EamusCatuli!!
Undoubtedly players overall hit better at home than they do on the road. They have their routines, familiar surroundings, equipment, the crowd, etc. Coors, however, is the only ballpark in MLB in which visitor OPS increases.
Compare Arenado’s home v road splits for his career:
HOME: .322/.376/.609
AWAY: .263/.322/.471
That’s not one season of cherry-picked numbers, it’s his career – 4555 PAs.
He is a talented player, a great defender. He will likely put up solid, acceptable offensive numbers, but his slash line is going to take a dive. I would project him at .270 with 25 HR and 90 RBI and a GG. He may outperform that.
jawinks
Prospects going back don’t matter, Rox won’t start them anyway
Dodgerbleu
They will if they’re 30 and not very good defensively
SalaryCapMyth
Which all-star and MVP caliber players can you think of that WEREN’T prospects?
Jean Matrac
SalaryCapMyth:
Actually, there’s a rather lengthy list of guys that made the AS team that were never a top 100 prospect. Well maybe rather lengthy is an exaggeration, but there are a number of them.
Jean Matrac
JD Martinez
Jose Ramirez
DJ LeMahieu
Josh Donaldson
Jacob deGrom
Kyle Hendricks
Paul Goldschmidt
Justin Turner
Luis Castillo
Brandon Crawford.
To name a few. Not sure all were ever on an All-star team though.
fstop13
Pujols
SalaryCapMyth
You misunderstood what I said. The point I was making was that ALL all-star and MVP caliber players were at some point prospects and had nothing to do with a top 100 prospect list. I never said anything about top prospects.
mydadleftme
Well damn
Oddvark
Cardinals obviously scared after the Cubs picked up Pederson. Had to make a move.
TheRickestRick
Ha
So true!
3Rivers
No way that had anything to do with this signing smh
degeneration nation
Well it sure as hell wasn’t because of any moves the Pirates made!
eddiemathews
Duck! Something’s going right over your head!
cards04
Oh yeah so scared of a career .230 hitter and .190 last year
allweatherfan
Surprise. Someone in the Central is trying win.
Megatron2005
Please tell me the Rockies at least took away their pitching prospects
oldmansteve
For $50mil I’d bet Gorman and Liberatore could be involved. At least one of them should be in the return
cards81
Definitely not both
kylegocougs
Whoa, surprising. Wonder what will happen with the opt out? Does he waive it? Are there PTBNL based on if he stays or opts out?
MikeGrr19
SOL
baseballpun
If the Rox are sending $50 million he must’ve waived the opt-out.
YourDreamGM
The cards won’t get the 50 million if he opts out. It will be spread throughout the length of the contract. So he may or may not have edited the contract.
FSF
Even if he plays well, he’ll probably opt in just to spite the Rockies and leave them on the hook for 50 sticks..
cards04
Well he’s already getting paid 38 million or something like that so how much better could it get?
Greenmamba559
Whoa! It actually got done.
davemlaw
I know the Rockies didn’t want to deal within their division but Arenado would have been great in SF. Move Longoria, some prospects and have the Rox send cash the last 2 years of Arenados contract. Done.
And I’m sure Nolan would have preferred California to Missouri.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
As much as I would like to agree, no he doesn’t fit. In order to acquire him it would be a lot of money and I don’t even think Longo’s horrendous contract would cover it. They would have to definitely pay off part of the contract. I feel like we would have to give too much in terms of prospects and we would regret it in the future
atuck_sfg
The Giants can clear $95.4 million off the books after this season, the payroll will not be an issue, but yes to keep him in the division would have cost the Giants a lot of prospects. I am glad to see him out of the division though, pretty sure every top defensive highlight he’s ever had was against the Giants haha
Sadler
Arenado has hit .291/.354/.556 with 31 homers and 104 RBI in 132 games against the Giants. And that doesn’t cover the vacuum he has on his glove hand.
The Giants probably win 2 more games next season with him leaving the division.
stan lee the manly
“And I’m sure Nolan would have preferred California to Missouri.”
If this were true, Arenado would be heading to the west coast, he didn’t waive his no trade clause to go somewhere he doesn’t want to be lolol
Lanidrac
I’m sure Nolan cares more about winning, and the Giants are years away from that at this point.
Anthony Princeton
California’s top state income tax rate is 13.3%, while the highest state income tax rate in Missouri is 5.4%. Not only does Arenado get a legit shot at winning a division, he gets to pocket a few mil extra dollars playing for the Cards.
SF is a disgusting open sewer anyway. So is LA where I have family. California has really declined in the last decade.
jkinser20
LETS GOOO
joeyrocafella
Wow good move… Him and Goldy are a great 3-4
larry48
But that all no offense outside of the Arenado and goldy
The Natural
I think he’ll be well above league average for the Cards. But Busch tends to favor pitchers. Don’t think you’ll see 40 HRs again. But great move. Worries me as a Cub fan.
baseballpun
Busch is pretty neutral. Nolan won’t have Coors anymore, but he won’t have most of his road games in those big NL West parks, either.
YourDreamGM
He hit well everywhere but LA.
larry48
La pitching, defense, and large park have a lot to do with his average, There are a lot of players that don’t hit very well in La stadium.
Dotnet22
Exactly, Cincy, Wrigley, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh aren’t exactly pitchers parks.
AVinny GarSac
That’s why Arenado has sub .250 BA and sub .300 OBP in both Wrigley and PNC, right?
brockswipessecond
He’ll be playing plenty of games in Wrigley, Miller Park, and Cincy. Plenty of home runs to be had.
revolver
Wrigley doesn’t belong with those other 2 stadiums. It is historically neutral.
MetsFan22
Do the cards think they are contenders? Ignore the Mets for a second this isn’t about them. But this doesn’t even put them close or dodgers or Braves.even Padres are still better.
fannclub6
All they have to do is be better than CIN, PIT, CHI and MIL. After that, it’s a crap shoot
MetsFan22
You’re completely right. I take it back. Playoffs is great bc anyone could win.
802Ghost
Especially when you have 200′ infield fly’s working in your favor…
fannclub6
Ah. A bitter Braves fan as entered the convo
larry48
Braves lost because they don’t run base well and their defense sucks. They got beat by a better team, and the Braves won the division because everyone else sucked.
C-Daddy
Make the playoffs and anything can happen (the 2006 Cardinals are a great example). The Central is ripe for the taking.
MetsFan22
True. I changed my mind.
bighiggy
Doesnt put them close to those teams on paper. Long season. Injuries happen, players slump. Being good on paper doesnt usually win the world series. Just have to make the playoffs and be hot.
MetsFan22
You’re completely right.
AndyMeyer
They’re better than the Mets 😀
MetsFan22
I wouldn’t say that. (On paper) But they’ll probably make the playoffs.
baseballpun
You’re an idiot.
kreckert
Wow. Guess somebody in the Cards’ front office saw all the comments about them being dormant this off season and decided they needed to get some stuff done. Or maybe they were just patient and doing a really good job. Never doubt that this is the best run franchise in the sport.
PutPeteRoseInTheHall
I doubt
YourDreamGM
Yet they missed all the comments about not wanting this below 800 ops over rated coors product.
Of course now the cards fans will be thrilled and tell us how they locked up the central and are serious contenders and Nolan is now great with 200 higher ops.
Hammerin' Hank
He’s a great player in any park. Deal with it.
YourDreamGM
No way man. He is trash. Only good in Colorado. Everywhere else he stinks.
MrSharx
Who did we lose,I wonder
arthur blank_for owner
Good job AA! Killing in it!…Go Braves!
InPolesWeTrust
That’s a lot of cash to change hands. The union is okay with that? Rockies are so smrt.
GriffeyJrFan
As long as Black is managing the Rockies it won’t matter if they send the best prospects to the Rockies. Bud Black will run Ian Desmond and resign Cargo.
gbs42
Managers don’t sign players.
PoloGrounds62
Cards just won the Central
DrDan75
Particularly if the Brewers follow up by trading Hader.
MikeGrr19
I wonder if Gorman is going back to COL
$50 mil sounds like enough for a top guy
Rangers29
It doesn’t look like the Cards gave up anything either… such a great move by the Cards as it stands…
iverbure
That’s what people said when Yankees acquired Stanton. When a mid market franchise gets rid of nearly 200 million in salary they win the deal regardless of return, every. Single. Time. Money is king
RunDMC
Good for STL. They found a way.
doxiedevil
Braves should go get Charlie Blackman !
RunDMC
Story. He’s a free agent at the end of the year, but is a much better player than Blackmon. I’d rather trade for Story and possibly sign Ozuna.
steelerbravenation
You really think AA would get both ???
Come on you know better than that
Now the Cards passes us up too
What a shame we were right there
RunDMC
They’re not in the same division, so they can’t pass us. Story, not Blackmon, should be the target, imho. Everything will be alright.
iverbure
What’s your problem? As it stands right now the braves are the clear winners of the offseason. They’ve avoided all the landmines of the offseason. Landmines are muti year contracts. Those are always bad, way too much risk. Fans don’t even know how to cheer for their favourite team anymore. They suggest moves that are actually bad for the team and make it harder to win, it’s very odd.
larry48
Why Charlie Blackman sucks defensively, offensively, salary, and his age.
Bart
It will be unpopular for a couple of years but its probably a smart move. Get a bunch of prospects and get out from under that contract. They can now resign Story. Five years from now I think this will be seen as a great move by the Rocks.
1984wasntamanual
They’d be better of trading him too. Signing him puts them right back in the position they’re in now.
Dodger Dog
I’m pretty sure this means that they will not be signing Story, but for fans sake I hope I’m wrong.
larry48
Do you think Story will resign in Colorado who is going to rebuild and won’t be a contender for the next decade?
dbisawesome
Arenado for a bag of peanuts
loyalmarlinsfansince1993
A sad day for baseball!
nmahan1984
Why exactly?
dirkg
Just the opposite actually
cobbalicious
And no Gorman, liberatore, or Carlson in the deal. Thank god.
californiaangels
wow. so German Marquez to the Angels seems possible now. Story could be next as well….
Jmayo75
I’m not sure I’d be confident to say the Cardinals are contenders. I find more talent on the Rockies team with Blackmon, Story, Marquez, McMahon, etc. Arenado must have just been really pissed at the Colorado heads.
bighiggy
The cards made the playoffs last year, and do almost every year. So I would say they are contenders. You think those players you mentioned are better than the cards talent. I think stats say otherwise
Jmayo75
They do somehow always find a way, lol. I hope he does succeed and prove he doesn’t need Colorado’s home field advantage like LeMahieu has done.
mlb1225
In the NL Central, they are certaintly a contender. The Cubs are starting a rebuild, the Pirates have been in a rebuild, the Reds haven’t really done anything major and have been speculated to sell more than buy and the Brewers also haven’t done anything after finishing below .500 last year.
Jmayo75
Yes, very good point mlb1225. Now is the time to make the splash!
stan lee the manly
This cannot possibly be a real take can it? The Rockies are HORRIBLE without Arenado, they couldn’t even win with him
Lanidrac
You seem to be ignoring the pitching side of the equation, where the Rockies can’t hold a candle to the amount of talent the Cardinals have.
RunDMC
Now ATL needs to go after Story and COL gets the prospects they need and triggers a rebuild.
SalaryCapMyth
It seems like they at least SHOULD trade him since they traded Arenado. What’s the point of keeping Story for his last season of control since they aren’t going to compete?
mlbfan9764
@RunDMC – There would have to be an ask for Swanson in that Story deal to Atlanta and of course 2 of the 5 prospect outfielders and 1 or 2 50 or 55 rating pitching prospects. I would also think that that sort of deal would be a 2 for 1 special by including Blackmon or Jon Gray.
RunDMC
Why would dealing Swanson have to be an ask? They have the prospects to pull off the deal and ask one to play another position. if you can play SS, you can play anywhere besides C and P. ATL gets the mid-order bat and could still bring back Ozuna or another or play Riley in LF.
SalaryCapMyth
Story is a rental. He’ll be expensive but not THAT expensive. Even Betts only cost the Dodgers 2 top 100 prospects.
Hammerin' Hank
Based on what the Indians got for a year of Lindor, I doubt the Braves would have to give up all of that.
iverbure
Where do these people come up with the value of these players? Do they even watch baseball outside of their own team? If you’re saying to yourself every trade in the offseason “that’s it” then you have no idea what the value of any player is.
VinceColemanStoleMyHeart
19 Gold Gloves for the Cardinals this week. 0 stolen bases.
Lanidrac
Assuming Molina resigns soon, that’s actually pretty accurate (Molina – 9, Arenado – 8, Wainwright – 2). Don’t forget that Molina and Arenado each have 4 Platinum Gloves (8 together), as well.
However, Molina actually swipes a decent number of bases (relatively speaking) despite his lack of speed, although I’m not sure if he can still keep that up at his age.
CuddyFox
You forgot that Goldschmidt also have 3 GG on his mantle. I wish the Cardinals also sign Wong, but that will be a dream it seems like now. That will be 1 killer defense.
Lanidrac
Sure, but he/she was talking about the players being added this week. Bader, DeJong, and Carlson could possibly see some Gold Gloves in their future, as well.
dabrewcrew
Joke of an organization that I placed my faith in all these years
dirkg
They’re retooling. Dodgers and Padres are beasts, so they’re using their best asset to get better. The return package is what is going to be of interest.
dabrewcrew
Retooling without a plan is no fun. We should be trading Story not our best player in franchise history – solely because of money.
fannclub6
So much for everyone thinking the Cards weren’t going to do anything…
YourDreamGM
So much for being a rumor. 50 million will bring back a good haul you would think.
towinagain
Kudos to the Cards. Wow that is an infield. Re-acquire Wong and they have had a great off season!
Lanidrac
I don’t think they have room (positionally or financially) for Wong with this move. They’ll probably just resign Molina and call it an offseason save for an additional minor league signing or two.
msqboxer
Gorman, Woodford are center pieces that’s why Colorado though in the extra $$’s.
oriole10
Woodford may go in this deal but Gorman will not. He is insurance in case Arenado opts out and they can’t re sign him.
leftcoast11 - pyramidsuccess
Great move,best 3b in the game.Future HOFer.He will kill those central division stadiums.Sf,LA& SD all are considered pitchers yards.Another SoCal kid raking and cashing cks.
Hammerin' Hank
Yes he will. He’s a dominant player and will be fine away from Coors.
chicagofan1978
Checkmate! They are the nl central team getting swept out of the playoffs
Jal179
How many years remaining on Arenado’s contract?
ldoggnation
6. But he has an option after next year.
Dotnet22
Word is he’s getting a 2nd opt out in 2022 with this deal, per Ken Rosenthal
NuckBobFutting
Rockies get Austin Gomber, Luken Baker, Jhon Torres
DarkSide830
it’ll be more then that with how much they are sending over in salery
msqboxer
Lol…top prospects are involved.
mlbfan9764
@Nuck – Torres is the best one but there’s a difference between the player development staffs in Colorado’s organization than the Cardinals’ organization.
SouthernBuc
If the 50M is over the life of the contract, might it change significantly if he opts out? Over the life of the deal that still leaves a lot of salary commitment on the Cardinals.
NuckBobFutting
Arenado needs to waive his no trade and his opt out for the deal to be done
CNichols
Yeah there has to be safeguards in there for the opt-out right? If they sent $50M to STL and then he opted out that would make no sense for COL
YourDreamGM
It’s not a lump sum. Little each year.
mlbfan9764
@CNichols – they’re probably thinking about Arenado choosing to opt out. The $50 million does cover the particulars of the contract as security. If they do work it out, does it affect his free agency and how the Cardinals could receive compensation for signing with another team?
YankeesBleacherCreature
When the Yankees traded for A-Rod, Texas was sending $67MM of the $179MM A-Rod was still owed. When A-Rod opted out, the Yankees lost about $21M of the remaining installment payments. I say lost because the Yankees extended him and Texas was off the hook.
kc38
Confused on many fronts with this one…. I know the cardinals see the division as very winnable but compare them to the top teams of the NL and they’re a joke. Rockies just shipped off their superstar with a $50 million dollar kicker…. OUCH. And not that I put much into it because I get the change of scenery and not being comfortable can cause this but Nolan’s Home/Road splits are not very good at all
bighiggy
Just because other teams improved drastically doesnt mean the cards should give up. They beat a much better Braves team 2 years ago in the playoffs. Just goes to show that the best team on paper doesnt always win it all.
kc38
If there was 1 other team then sure. But there is many others…. And the cardinals aren’t some youth movement team coming up the ranks… the team is getting older and going the other way…
bighiggy
So they should give up? Rebuild just because other teams improved? Blow it up? I can appreciate them trying, while also appealing to the fans. You say they are getting older and I disagree. Fowler, Carp, miller, yadi(if he signs) and wainwright will all be gone next year. Besides goldy and arenado who is old. Oneill, bader, carlson, edman, dejong, knizer, flaherty, hudson, hicks….I mean who?
Dotnet22
They don’t have to beat all of them. That’s not how the playoffs work.
Lanidrac
The Cardinals still have plenty of youth on their pitching staff and in a few position players like DeJong, Bader, and Carlson. Meanwhile, some expensive older players (Carpenter, Fowler, and Andrew Miller) are off the books after next year.
CNichols
Did he agree to not exercise his opt-out after 2021 as part of this? That’s always seemed like the biggest hurdle to trading him.
theland44145
I would assume. Don’t think Rockies pay for two years unless he pushed back at least one year
themed
Hello favorites of the NL Central. And certainly no ceiling on how far they can go in the playoffs. Bye bye cub fans!
1984wasntamanual
Round 1.
chicagofan1978
I love how happy you are to have the best team in a horrible division. It’s just embarrassing at this point
DarkSide830
and your happy your team could have simply brought in a serviceable SP to perhaps be the favorite and didnt even do that?
chicagofan1978
My team is the white Sox.
DarkSide830
oh so not a Cubs fan. hard to tell ya know.
chicagofan1978
Remember two teams in Chicago, I don’t exactly hate the Cubs but I’m a realist with them, I’m a homer for the Sox
jdgoat
The amount of rent they have in your head cannot be very healthy.
DarkSide830
go figure
303rox
Being a Rockies fan just continues to be frustrating. The team squandered the best years of Blackmon, Arenado and Story with poor free agent signings and an unwillingness to put in the effort to win. Now Story will be dealt mid-season and they’ll start all over again only to do the very same thing with the next core. Bridich has no business being in that role but ownership has it good with a ballpark that stays pretty full despite the embarrassing product on the field. The fans suffer for it but the brass just doesn’t care. So disheartening
YankeesBleacherCreature
I feel for you Rockies fans. I have no idea which direction the club has been heading for the past decade or so. The Arenado-Bridich debacle was the icing on the cake. I don’t even know how the brass allowed it to become public since no one wins. For $50m, you can spend well on draft picks and int’l signings on lottery tickets. Too bad Arenado already had one foot out the door.
playball6000
Yeah, sorry. I’d be disappointed in them too.
User 2802304835
big if true
DarkSide830
Some history of COL guys going to STL…
Luke Strong
STL seems like one of the best run organizations in the league. They are competitive from year to year, they invest in quality players and never stuck themselves with a dead weight contract, like Pujols. Before this, they had only two players on the payroll beyond 2023 for only $28M in commitments. Arenado is still very much a franchise player, plus getting that cash covers STL for decline in his age 34-35 seasons, this was a robbery no matter what any of those prospects do.
gbs42
Goldy and Mikolas combine to make $43M per year.
iH8PaperStraws
Matt carpenter, Carlos Martinez, dexter Fowler, Those are all dead weight contracts. Mozalok is an idiot and while this seems awesome on paper, he probably got fleeced here, like every other move he’s made. I love Arenado, but this deal makes me think his Bhutto last year is bigger than we know.
Lanidrac
Martinez’s contract is still good if he can make it back into the rotation (and not terrible if he’s just a quality setup man), and while Fowler is overpaid he’s still a decent player and not dead weight at all.
T8Rcheese1
Wow! Rox ate alot of cabbage, surely some high ceiling type prospects coming back. At the 149 over 6 thats a solid deal. Lets say yes coors numbers are what they are but if they get him at Scott Rolen type numbers they’re pumped. Glove plays everywhere and if he puts up .275 30 and 100 with that glove, hard to compain about that trade for the birds.
bravos4life
How didn’t the Braves make this deal. We have 20 outfield prospects yet don’t want to trade any of them.
RunDMC
What they took on of Arenado is essentially Freeman’s extension – as there have been rumors that Goldy’s extension provides framework for a Freeman extension. It’s not the players given up – though that list hasn’t been confirmed yet – ATL could part with those, though they have lower depth issues (in part, because of the sanctions), but it’s the dollars/risk involved.
theodore glass
Unless the Cardinals make other moves I don’t see how Arenado alone pushes them to the top.
baseballpun
Top of what? The were arguably already top of the division with Darvish and Bauer gone from Chicago and Cincy.
Dotnet22
Also Iglesias, Archie Bradley, Jameson Taillon, Josh Bell. Other central teams got weaker or stood pat.
Dbacks fan
Dbacks need to trade for Charlie Blackman as they need a CF.
theodore glass
Blackmon doesn’t play CF anymore.
theodore glass
Blackmon doesn’t play CF anymore.
RMSMITH
If what I heard was true. Mo stole him. Colorado gets Gomber and Baker
Ronk325
This is a pathetic move by the Rockies. They should have just traded Arenado a couple years back and received a stronger return instead of giving their fans the facade that they were committed to keeping him long term
iverbure
That’s what all mid markets should be doing. Keeping the star player never works out for these franchises. Fans should want the star player traded too if they want the team to win but they don’t even know how to be fans properly.
RMSMITH
I think he signed a 6yr $199 mm so, 5 years left?
Eatdust666
His deal was an 8 year $260 million extension
LarryJ4
And the cardinals still won’t matter. Does nothing for them tbh. Not like the moves they’ve made will push them passed the big 3 of the NL.
baseballpun
Idiot. You win the division and each series is basically a coin flip. If nobody tried to win unless they were a guaranteed top-3 team on paper, the whole league would fold.
Cardsfanatik redux
Never watched much playoff baseball huh?
beyou02215
Time to trade Story. Why stop now?
mlbfan9764
@beyou – they’re okay with keeping Story so that their infield is McMahon, Story, Hampson and Rodgers.
Lanidrac
Depending on who’s going to Colorado, the following lineup isn’t bad:
Edman
Carlson
Goldschmidt
Arenado
DeJong
Fowler
Molina? (or currently Knizner)
Bader
Pitcher (assuming no DH at this point)
VonPurpleHayes
Rockies still pay 50mm??? What is going on here?
playball6000
Thr Cards did nothing all Winter. They resign Wainwright then are handed Arenado with 50 million toward his salary. That’s how badly The Rockies wanted to unload him! Have not seen what Stl gave up yet. Guessing it’s not a ton.
Balk
Damn, gonna miss seeing this dude compete in the NL west. He was fun to watch! Great fit though for the Cards
mlbnyyfan
It’s horrible that the Yankees can’t find a taker for Stanton by sending most of his salary away. Cashman so over rated.
OCTraveler
Person with biggest smile: Justin Turner. Unless you want Rios at third full time, the Dodgers better sign him again.
GarryHarris
STL is going to pay…
Dotnet22
With mid level prospects…..whoop de do
GarryHarris
Which ones?
iverbure
Looks like the Rockies paid.
halos2017
Don’t get over excited. His home/away splits are bad. Goldschmidt didn’t turn out as hoped. You’re welcome for taking Pujols out of your hands. Luckily this is his last year of contract. No playoff wins in his first 9 years. I was fine with the contract beforehand believing we would get some playoff wins but that didn’t happen.
bighiggy
Goldschmidts numbers last year were awesome. His numbers in 2019 were down but still not terrible.
halos2017
52 runs and rbis in 58 games. Not awesome. It’s about scoring runs and he didn’t generate a run a game. only 6 home runs.
dirkg
It’s a good day when Baseball City USA gets a stud like Arenado.
jbc1972
I don’t see the return hurting the Cards too much with the 2 opt outs and taking on 3/4s the contract. Gomber is the only name I’ve seen so far.
trigato
How does Rockies front office keep their jobs after this disaster. A deal recently signed that’s already $50,000,000 wrong…
Cap & Crunch
Buying prospects…….if its a rebuild coming this is a great use of capital to kick start it
Jal179
Would you rather have Springer for 150 million over 6 years or Arenado for 150 million over 6 years (plus 3 non-top prospects subtracted from your farm system)?
George 31. Nolan 30.
Cap & Crunch
Nolan easily but they wont be non prospects but Still Nolan
jbs32
As a Jays fan, Nolan. Quite easily. Better defense, won’t need to move off the position, offensive drop off leaving Coors is overstated.
Eatdust666
Yes, because it didn’t hurt Holiday and hasn’t done so for LeMahieu, though he is in yet another very hitter friendly environment.
cwsOverhaul
Springer is money in big games. So many wilt under pressure.
Anthony Princeton
Nolan and it isn’t particularly close.
Frickster1402
Wonder if Blackman was involved if that much cash is going to St Louis….
Cap & Crunch
Excited to see the package, this is pretty damn innovative sending 50 mill
I had Nolans 5/164 left after this year- about 15 mill in the red from my proj 5/150
Lets see what 35 mill of prospects looks like……….Big fan of this route by Col. Should be a haul, wonder if they go mlb ready or AA players or a sprinkle of both
Im guessing Fowler and Carp both said No to being included in a trade and thats why we are seeing this 50 burger
Deleted Userrr
If Nolan opts out do the Rockies still have to pay?
Cap & Crunch
No
dazedatnoon
wow….go Cards. I’m a Arenado fan too
chicagofan1978
So this puts noodle arm Carpenter back to second right?
mlbnyyfan
Rockies better get Gorman or Carlson back in return
gbs42
No chance of Carlson going to Colorado.
gbs42
Edman at 2B.
stgpd
Holy crap. Take that Mozelak haters
Mario93
I’m guessing if the Rockies are willing to eat 50 million, I’d assume they’re getting a whole lot back. Major league ready players included. Without a doubt… or this is the worst gm in baseball. Period. Rockies should be getting back a really nice haul.
oldmansteve
Rockies don’t need MLB ready players, they need high upside players. They are in total rebuild
Mario93
If I can get a young player under 5-6 years of control, included, why not.
oldmansteve
It is kind of like this. If I told you, you were moving to Florida. You could go out and buy a thick winter coat, but what would be the point when a bathing suit is available?
Mario93
I understand your point. Rockies due for a complete rebuild. But if that’s your true goal, I could care less if one of those assets I acquire is a ready big leaguer. For three years you’re paying them minimum salary. Those players have tons of value, even on under performing teams. And it may not take the Rockies a decade to rebuild, they may be ready in 3-4-5. It’s baseball. I don’t know.
Moneyballer
I wouldn’t assume that. I think the BIG 3 cards prospects are safe and keeping them and gaining Arenado would be quite a coup for the redbirds.
Deleted_User
So much for Pads Fans aka Koamalu’s theory that Nolan would waive his opt out as part of a trade. Not only did he do nothing of the kind, he got a second opt-out added.
bazbal
I guess this is the Cardinals’ response to the Brewers’ huge acquisitions of Daniel Robertson and Jace Peterson..
arne23
I still see him eventually becoming a Dodger.
R.D.
I hate seeing one of my favorite players go to one of my least favorite teams. Bad feeling.
sufferforsnakes
So with the recent big dollar signings and acquisitions, I have one question:
What do the owners know that the fans don’t?
Anthony Princeton
The owners know quite a bit more than the fans. What gives you the impression the average fan knows anything when it comes to running a MLB team or the financial health of MLB as a pro sports league?
sufferforsnakes
Damn, who pissed on your cornflakes?
oldmansteve
Probably their teams’ budgets
sufferforsnakes
My point is, teams have gone from “we lost too much money” to “let’s spend like drunken sailors.”
iverbure
He’s right. The favs don’t know anything. It’s why after every trade like this there’s one side of the fanbase that is mad as hell saying that’s it! They have no idea about the value of players, how to build a winning team.
GocardsPA
Put Carlson in the 2 hole in front of Arenado and Goldy. Could be a great 2, 3, 4. Get the kid some fast balls.
Lanidrac
Yes, but it’ll Goldy 3rd and Arenado at clean up, since the former gets on base more, while the latter has more power.
Mjshof
Whaturmomsaid
Cap & Crunch
Looks like he waived his no trade by leveraging an extra opt out after 22. smart little leverage by Nolan there
Moneyballer
I would be a little worried about that if I were the cardinals. Guess they’re banking on making him happy while he’s there!
Cap & Crunch
Yea but even so they’d probably get the best 2 yrs then and miss the worst 2 –
Not worst case for cards just thought it was savvy by Nolan
I expect him to play the full 6 tho then make a swan song out in Socal one day when hes on his last legs as possibly a DH
Moneyballer
Why do people keep putting him in southern california? I think that’s a pie in the sky longshot!
iH8PaperStraws
More smart move by the Cardinals. Arenado doesn’t want to compete with next years FA class. The cardinals get $50m with him and still have Gorman who is on pace for 2023. Cards hope Arenado opts out and Gorman takes over and the cards got two years of Arenado for almost free.
iH8PaperStraws
If Arenado doesn’t opt out after 2022, this ends up being a mother terrible move Mo who is easily one of the worst 5 PBOs in the league. So we already know what will happen.
Moneyballer
Define free. Cuz there are players going to Colorado in this thing so it’s not going to be close to FREE.
mac1brad
Obviously Coor’s Field is a MUCH better hitters park than Busch Stadium but the bulk of his road games will be played in the hitter friendly NL Central ballparks as opposed to the pitcher friendly NL West ballparks.
Moneyballer
That escalated quickly!
Cardinals love these splashy moves. McGwire, Goldschmidt, Arenado…see the pattern. Good for them! I do feel bad for ROX fans, Arenado was their guy, total fan favorite! Cardinals will like this guy, those corner infielders can bang with anyone. Interested to see the return here…..
iverbure
Why would anyone feel bad for them? They got rid of a albatross contract that prevented them from winning now and in the future. Fans much like people who vote in democracy’s don’t even know what to vote or cheer for that will benefit themselves or team.
Moneyballer
I don’t think getting rid of their best player simply because of the contract suddenly makes them a contender in the years to come. Rockies rarely spend to compete and when they do, they get burned. This is going to be a total tear down and a very prolonged rebuild and I feel sorry for any fanbase that has to go through that.
bravesfan
Well dern…. I was hoping the Braves get him. The return better be unreal to eat $50 mil of his contract. Must be some serious prospects.
On that note, the entire NL seems to be getting better (minus the Rockies) and right now the Braves are significantly worse off than they were last year. Y’all better make some moves on offense bravos! Let’s gooooooo!!!
GocardsPA
Could you now package Gorman/Bader or Gorman/O’Neill for an outfield bat. Gorman was reported as an end of the year call up after an impressive summer. You have several other 3B’s coming up behind him.
Rosstradamus
Cards Prospect Rankings(from mlb.com/prospects1500.com): Torres(#9/#13) Rondon(#13/#16) Baker(#23/#27) Woodford(NR/#24)
Moneyballer
Somewhere AJ Preller is jealous and wondering why he couldn’t get this done himself. It’ll be OK prell-man.
LordD99
Yeah, even AJ would have to recognize adding Arenado on top of Machado’s contract to form a $65M AAV 3B’man might not be a wise investment.
Moneyballer
LOL good point, although he does like to throw caution to the wind and make a big ole trade! He plays with monopoly money, we all know that!
letimmysmoke55
wow, crazy offseason
Dorothy_Mantooth
Nolan could finish in the Top 3 of the NL MVP this year and still would be dumb to opt of his contract. He’s being paid just about as much as Rendon and no team is going to offer him a 5+ year deal @ $35M+ at age 31. He’s going to be a Cardinal for the rest of his contract; St. Louis had better hope he doesn’t decline too much over the next 5 years. Even with Colorado covering $10M/yr, this is still a risky deal for St. Louis. Don’t expect the Rox to get a haul back in return. They’ll get one good prospect and some fillers on top of that.
Simodine
Still has 6 years remaining on his current deal.
Cap & Crunch
*Now 7
SimbaHOF2019
Looks like they are getting a bunch of good players from the Cards.
Gomber will plug right in the rotation as a 3 or better.
Woodford will go to the pen and be decent,.
Torres has huge upside and is a year away or less.
Baker is a doubles machine in minor league pitchers parks. and is intriguing.
jbc1972
According to CBS Sports the package is
Austin Gomber
Angel Rondon
Jake Woodford
Luken Baker
And Jhon Torres
Seems reasonable with the 2 opt outs and taking on 3/4s of that ridiculous contract
Mjshof
St Louis >> Colorado organizationally
They’ll do a lot more with the back half of Arenado’s prime. The trade is good for MLB, both teams and Arenado.
weaselpuppy
I just want to see the first trade in MLB history with two guys named Nolan.
LordD99
As I noted in the earlier thread, the Rockies would likely need to bring the AAV down to about $25M, which is right where this lands. Have to see who the final prospects are traded, but Arenado is a 5+ win player, actually averaging about 6.5 wins 2015-19, I suspect his BA will drop down into the .270 range, but the 35-40 HR power will remain with the elite fielding, still the best in the game at his position.
Good deal for the Cardinals.
Jean Matrac
I think it was yesterday some Cards fan was complaining about the team not doing anything. Great move for the Cards. I have a lot of respect for how they’re run.
Rockies fans are going to be disappointed in the return. This is a salary dump even with the $50M.
AHH-Rox
For that amount of money thrown in, the Rockies had better be getting the Cardinals top A or AA pitching prospect.
And then they might as well auction off Trevor Story and Jon Gray and hope to be competitive again in about 2024.
seamaholic 2
You know Jon Gray is like their 4th best starter, right?
LordD99
John Mozeliak awoke this morning to see a reminder he set on his calendar from last October: 1/29/21 — John, reminder, make all off season moves today before leaving on winter vacation.
PinstripedPride
Wow, this is a big one! Happy that Arenado isn’t going to end up with the Dodgers, for sure. Rooting for the guy to make a big impact in St. Louis
LordD99
There was a time I wanted Arenado at 3B in NY, but I’ve become an Urshela believer.
PinstripedPride
I love Gio too. He’s such a great guy and has worked really hard to get to where he is now. It’s the sort of heart that New York needs
mlbdodgerfan2015
Dodger fans are also happy he’s not going to be a Dodger. Good player but not worth the money. He will not put up the numbers he did at Colorado.
Amanda2019
Forget about the money for a minute, just imagine what he said to his own team mates that were probaly like’ get this guy out of here’ i mean i get it, hes on a awful team going nowhere with no future, he wants to go somewhere better, but still, to also include the money , he had to say alot worse than to acknowledge he was unhappy being on a loosing team, thats why i feel great for teams like the mets and padres, fundamentally bad over the years franchises who are truly getting better.
SimbaHOF2019
He called the owner or the GM dishonest and other things. I think that helped move him.
redhaze1
Let’s go Reds. Make a deal for Story. Bob Castellini make it happen. Story’s contract will swap for Bauer.
flyingblindsquirrel
Is $50K enough to raise Busch Stadium another 4-5,000 feet above sea level so Nolan can have any chance of coming close to his prior stats? … Asking for a friend.
Dotnet22
50K is probably not enough but nice attempt at saying something remotely funny.
Very Barry
A tip of the cap to the Cardinals. They did a great job of operating in silence. A solid move that improves their team without giving up anything significant. Makes the Wainwright and Molina signings make sense. Stand-alone those were not good moves. Adding Arenado makes them worthwhile and puts the Cardinals firmly in the NL pennant race. Division will be a lock. Dodgers, Braves, Cardinals and Mets are my top four in NL right now. I am not sold on the Padres. I don’t think their lineup is nearly strong enough.
iH8PaperStraws
Signing Molina makes no sense now. He’s been done. If they are trying to compete, it’s time to move on from him. With Arenado now, there is no need to sign Molina to boost TV ratings or t-shirt sales
RoadRunner38!
Molina isn’t done don’t know where you got that but ok make up something to make you feel better
Hammerin' Hank
Padres are easily a top 3 team in the NL.
Rightout
Terrible job by the GM and ownership in Colorado…know your budget and market…to sign Nolan to the most insane contract at that time was beyond crazy..could have traded him or just let him go…kind of like us up hear in Detroit with Miggys contract..and we can’t trade him..not sure this is actually a great move by Cardinals…we have to see all the details…Nolan is 30 and about 275/25/80 guy away from coors..yet I give the Cards credit for trying to win a garbage N L central…
Mrtwotone
Wow, the Cardinals are going to have Nolan Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt at the corners! It could be the best corner infield duo in MLB.
revolver
Where does this put the cards 2021 payroll?
iH8PaperStraws
The Matt’s in Oakland are better.
mattwild1
at defense, sure, but all around? not a chance in hell
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Matt Chapman is solid with the bat as well. Highly underrated. I’m not saying he’s better than Arenado but he should be considered.
RobM
No one in the game now is better with the glove than Arenado at 3B.
iverbure
Chapman has been for a couple years now if you use those things called stats.
Spare Tire Dixon
Good for the Cards. They are adding a truly great player alongside Goldschmidt.
3Rivers
Really hope this backfires somehow on the Cards.
123redsox
Nolan Gorman would make sense as part of a return. A top prospect that could replace arenado at the hot corner
theodore glass
He’s not in the trade.
gregorym
Do you know who is?
troll
one year rental
padam
So the Cards got him for basically $25M per year for 6 years. Not bad.
seamaholic 2
Maybe. Or $25m for one year and the opportunity to watch him play for the Dodgers after that.
RobM
I have a hard time seeing him opting out and risking that much money, especially after he experiences playing for the Cardinals. Not a Cards fan, but players seem to love playing there.
jiggywithoutit
Cards get the 50 mil either way, so they’d be getting paid something like 15 mil to house him for a year if that happens.
padam
It would be $25M per year for the cards as he receives over $30M per year. The $50M brings it down for the cards.
TradeAcuna
Rumors say the Rox told the Braves they will only give the Cards 50 mil to move him.
AA said it is ok because winning is not part of their plan.
iverbure
Braves have won the last couple years. Do you people actually watch baseball? This narrative that the braves are cheap and can’t succeed because they have a budget is stupid. They nearly beat the dodgers last year. Saying dumb s hit on the internet should be illegal.
Nuschler
Surely Matt Carpenter and Dexter Fowler are going to Colorado as part of a salary swap? That’s nearly 40 mil for 2021 right there. And they could both potentially be starters in Colorado.
YourDreamGM
Colorado ate 50 million. No need to take salary back.
Nuschler
Maybe that’s part of the 50mil. Fowler and Carpenter are useless in Stl. The trade hasn’t actually been announced.
YourDreamGM
They would be just as useless in Colorado. Going by the rumored prospects it doesn’t look like they are going in the trade.
stevetampa
Huh? The Rockies already emptied their pockets. Why in the world would they also take back salary commitments. Think this one through bro
RobM
The additional year at $15M will take the luxury tax calculation down to approximately a $23M average for the Cardinals.
Randy Johnson’s Mullet
Would love to see the Braves make a move for Story. If you’re Colorado would you take Dansby + and say Mueller, langeliers/Contreras and then either Shewmake or Davidson/Tarnok if they wanted more pitching instead? Is that enough? Trevor would be one hell of a #3 hitter behind Freddie.
iverbure
Is that enough? Good lord. They could get 3 Trevor story’s for that.
Spare Tire Dixon
Story only has one year left on his contract. It would not take anything close to that
Devlsh
I like Gomber and Rondon in this deal, This will be Torres third organization, and that’s often a red flag, but there’s potential there. Woodford’s minor league numbers are underwhelming for such a high draft pick. and Baker is expendable.
All that said, I’m not as excited about Arenado as some people. That contract commits the Cards to him for a long time, in his 30s and coming off a lousy injury filled year.. And just like Goldschmidt, Stl is going after a guy who hit in a high scoring run environment and hoping it translates to Busch Stadium. Still, you can’t fault a team for trying….which is a lot more than some do.
Jordo87
Watch the Rockies resign Story and screw up teams off season plans for next year lol
PinstripedPride
Why on Earth would Story want to stay with this dumpster of an organization? The team quite clearly can’t build a winner and it won’t be one for a very long time, so why not jump to a contender? There will be a myriad of suitors in a historic offseason
iverbure
Guaranteed money. It’s hard to turn down 150 million or more when free agency is packed with 4 guys who play the same position as you.
Lloyd Emerson
Now maybe somebody will take Kris Bryant and his $19.4 million contract and give the Cubs $50 million??!!??!?! Pittsburgh??
Scrap1ron
The way the Rockies mismanage their prospects the ones they receive in this trade are headed for minor league purgatory.
The Cardinals just laid claim to the NL Central for the near future.
Whodoirootfor
No he didnt
Yankeefan24
Doesn’t Arenado suck now? And his home away splits are trash. Not everyone can be like DJ. Reminds me of Angels signing Pujols to that insane deal when all the signs said he’d be trash, except reverse. This time is Cards basically signing a guy where all the signs point to him being trash.
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
There is so much wrong with this post. Throw out a shortened 2020 season and Arenado is a .300 hitter, prime defender, and an All-Star as late as 2019. Maybe you’re upset the Yankees didn’t pull this off despite rumors?
This is nothing like the Pujols deal.
Yankeefan24
Lol so much wrong? You didn’t even acknowledge the splits so that’s a ludicrous take. Career .260 hitter away from the friendly confines of Coor’s Field bud. And now he’ll be on the wrong side of 30 after his worst season by a mile. He’ll get exposed.
neurogame
Goldschmidt and Arenado on the corners of your infield? That’s good. I hope the rest of that line-up wakes up offensively. I really like Harrison Bader. With his speed and glove, he makes a great CFer but he’s just not hitting enough.
SimbaHOF2019
He hits well enough for a GG CF.. Its the rest of the lineup that couldnt hit.
Sideline Redwine
Except that hitting has nothing to do with being a gold glover. Good thing, cuz he cant hit.
nmahan1984
I think what he’s saying is that hes a defense first player.
Cohens_Wallet
Cards doing what the Cards do
Cheeseman Forever
Well, the Cardinals may have Nolan Arenado but the Brewers have Daniel Robertson!
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Cardinals strike gold though I feel bad for the Rockies- they always historically seem to lose out and much of that has to do with location.
Cardinals- Yankees of the NL (although Dodgers could hold that spot too now)
Sideline Redwine
Please tell me you are not ranking StL over LAD. No comparison. StL is not even at SD level yet. Calm down.
CJ81
Seriously. Not sure how anyone could compare the cards to yankees. Over the last decade the cardinals average being around 10th in the league in payroll.
NY_Yankee
With the Rockies in the same division as the Dodgers and Padres, they are no closer to contending then the Pirates and Orioles. If I was Story, I would not want to be there for five years . For the Rockies, I would trade him, and at least get something back.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
One key for the Cardinals will be if Arenado can produce the same offensive numbers away from Coors. Goldie’s output dropped when compared to his Arizona days. Don’t discount what thin air does.
Still, an infield of Goldie, Arenado, DeJong and Edman is, in the words of Larry David, “Pretty, pretty good!”.
Finally, over a month ago, I posted that, given the mediocre NL Central, the Cards would win the division. Adding Arenado only makes that comment more prescient.
SimbaHOF2019
I see Him putting up the 130 ops+ he always puts up. And Goldy had a little hicup when he first joined the Cards but appears to be his old self.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Simba: Fair prediction for Arenado. True, Coors helps all Rockies hitters, but the good ones who have moved on don’t fall off a cliff. Would not be surprised, even with the muggy summer air in St. Louis, to see Arenado post something like: .280 30 100
j_butte
What a garbage return for the Rockies.
stevetampa
Does Jeff Bridich have a clue what he is doing? He paid Arenado $61mm for the past two seasons and now kicks in another $50mm as part of this trade. He could have traded Arenado before the 2019 season and saved more than $100mm plus an excellent prospect return. Even if the prospect return is good, this was clearly a mismanaged situation.
1984wasntamanual
Deals this size probably aren’t handled by the gm
MarkoRock68
Interesting that BTV had Arenados contract underwater by 43 million- they were not far off considering the prospects Rox got back. Decent return for the Rockies.
mlbnyyfan
It continues to be frustrating when other teams get super stars they don’t have too give up top prospects but when the Yankees ask for Lindor or someone else it’s always Torres and Dominguez or nothing. Lindor, Betts, and Arenando were given away for prospects yes but no top prospects. Story is good as gone. Even if Rockies offer him a contract why stay now. Story should goto the Rangers or Angels.
tymeslayer
Shame on the Rockies ownership. The loss of one of, if not, the best third basemen in Baseball, throwing money at it and getting virtually nothing in return is an embarrassment to baseball and a total disregard to their fan base. Winning is not in their mindset and ownership seems content with a perpetual rebuilding theme. But shame on me for supporting this travesty as a season ticket holder from day one.
I wish Mr. Arenado all the best in his new endeavor in St. Louis.
sergefunction
Will his Baseball Reference Projection be amended for 2021 once he is officially listed as closer to sea level half the time?
It’s already well below all of his career averages. The Cardinals are very likely not getting $150M worth here. Crack me up some more with opt-out talk.
The Rockies didn’t just give away $50M. They saved big here. A mistake was salvaged. A repeat year like 2020 and Arenado becmes another Miguel Cabrera, untradeable. Good, timely dump here.
mlbnyyfan
Someone needs to tell Cashman how to do a salary dump trade and get rid of Stanton. If he can’t then leave get the F Off my team. You complain you have to deal with a budget well getting rid of Stanton should be priority number one. Even if you still have to pay half his salary some relief better than nothing. Some team is willing to pay Stanton 12-15 Million a year. Call Seattle, Angels, Rangers. Call someone or resign if the job is too overwhelming for you now.
NY_Yankee
Stanton might replace McGriff for Dale Murray as the worst trade in Yankee history
Eatdust666
Yeah, that was a terrible trade for the Yankees, considering that Murray was trash for them, while McGriff killed it for Toronto.
hoff38
Rockies need young pitching as they rarely seem to develop any in the last 20 years. Trade Story, tear it down, start drafting more college arms and get a new minor league pitching program. Try to win in a few years not just out slug teams. That rarely works, especially on the road.
themed
Cardinals have owned the NL Central for years now. They will continue to dominate. They never tank on purpose always contending. They’ve had one season in the past 25 years where they were under .500. They’ve won more Central more NL Championships and more World Championships then the rest of the central teams combined in that time. Love the Cardinals and the way they always compete and the fans are the most knowledgeable fans in the game today. Great trade! Great team! Whoohooo I’m jacked up to watch this great franchise just keep winning! It will be fun for my kids and grandkids to keep watching this winning tradition in St Louis for years to come.
MarkoRock68
It is a well run club however playing in the NL central helps.
JoeBrady
They finished 1st once in 5 years. Is that your definition of ‘owning’?
Sideline Redwine
“Owned”? I realize as a cards fan you hate the Cubs, but that is revisionist history. Sure, if you look over the long term you have those titles, but it is a bit misleading when looking at the recent past. But you do you. I know how cards fans are. They’re the greatest…just ask them.
Sideline Redwine
Not that impressive of a haul for a guy like Arenado. I guess the new method is quantity rather than quality? I guess the more prospects, the better the chance one of them does well. No stars in that bunch.
SimbaHOF2019
They dumped 150 mil to get rid of a disgruntled player that would have been poison in spring training who wanted out badly.
They got a mid rotation starter and 3 other really good prospects that will be on the team in the next year or 2. there hand was forced.
krockMETS
At what point do teams with 2B/3B openings start calling about Story? Most of the teams with SS opening have filled them, but the Rockies pretty much HAVE to trade Story now. Why would he want to stay?
RoxFan1167
I have been a devoted Rockies fan since 1993 inaugural opening day and since about 2003 when the current ownership took full control of the team, I think they spend the off season thinking up new and creative ways to be losers. There was a time, not too long ago where there were rumors abound that ownership was considering moving the Rockies out of Colorado for a more “appreciative” market. Well I think that time has come. Maybe it is time to let the current ownership move the team elsewhere as long as the current ownership goes with the team. The rumor years ago was that Indianapolis was a possible landing spot. Maybe it is time to rebuild with a solid new team under new ownership and management and give us Colorado fans at least a team that can and seriously contend in the MLB from time to time. I’ll make the drive to Albuquerque two or three times a year to watch the AAA Isotopes play and be far more impressed with them then I do with the big club. Of course, the move to the AL South in the near future may snap a sense of reality into ownership. Just me being frustrated with the apparent lack of commitment to the fans that continue to line the pockets of “unappreciative” owners.
yanks_aaronx3
Rockies paid $50MM to get rid of him and didn’t get top prospects from STL? That is a horribly run organization. Should of kept Nolan this year pay his salary for ‘21 and he would’ve opted out after the season. Nolan wasn’t staying
yanks_aaronx3
Would have cost much less. Save abt $20m. That clearly is a team that has no clue at what they are doing. Feel really sore for the fans that support that team
yanks_aaronx3
Sorry not sore
1984wasntamanual
50m is about how underwater his contract was, no way was he opting out.
billysbballz
Let’s imagine a similar trade scenario with a different player around same age with the same exact contract going forward. In fact the luxury tax cap hit is 23-25 mill for Stanton and 25 mill for Arenado. The Yankees have Stanton who loses tremendous value as an everyday DH while Arenado plays gold glove 3rd base but his home/road splits are very scary. Stanton is an above average defensive Right Fielder but he’s blocked by Judge and he’s average at best in Yankee Stadium’s big cavernous Left Field.
So lets pretend play Brian Ninja Cashman and have him call them Dodgers who have a ton of money to spend. Stanton has a no trade but I believe he would not waive to go back to the west coast which is home to him. A majority of Yankee fans are not big Stanton fans and I think he realizes that so maybe he approves a trade to one of the Dodgers or Padres? Now he’s turned down the Padres already but that’s before they were this upcoming power house. Yanks send 50 million with Stanton 7 years 218 million contract plus Miguel Andujar who can take over at third to the Dodgers for a few minor league prospects. Or maybe Stanton with Domingo German and 50 million for a few decent prospects. Would Dodgers move betts to CF and Stanton to Right? Padres place Stanton right in RF? Any chance a trade like this can ever happen after seeing Arenado dealt and last year watching Red Sox add Price untradeable contract in the Betts trade?
Devlsh
Why would the Dodgers do that? LA has the money to sign players they WANT, the prospects to trade for players they WANT, and a team that’s good enough now without taking on that risk.
It’s like trying to sell Jeff Bezo’s a used Mercedes that spent most of the last few years in the shop. .
mhsaltz1963
Story has Dave Dombrowski written all over him. The Phils do have some decent pieces. And as long as Mick Abel is not included in any package, he should take a shot.
SimbaHOF2019
Dom just signed Didi for 2 years, so.
Dock_Elvis
So, part of that 50M the Rockies send is voided if Arenado opts out after the season? Seems wild St. Louis could receive Arenado AND 50M for a one year rental AND not return much in prospects. Guessing that 50M is spread over time and voids if he opts out. The details will be interesting. I take the 15M added season as the price to buy him out of the no-trade clause.
Colorado has 50M to give to another organization, yet doesn’t have the money to put around a couple of nice key pieces in Arenado/Story. That’s a ridiculously ran organization. That or they’ve spent money like crazy around MLB and now the bills are coming in.
I take a lot of this as a No Confidence vote in the 2021 MLB Season not being grossly impacted by Covid.
Devlsh
This from Ben Clemens at Fangraphs:
“In reality, they washed their hands of Arenado to get rid of his contract, and received some token prospects in return so that they could tell their fans it wasn’t a purely financial decision”
He called it an “unmitigated disaster” from Colorado’s perspective.
Dock_Elvis
Devlsh- This is where the Commissioner stepped in on Charlie O’Finley and blocked those trades with the “Best Interest of Baseball” clause. Havent seen that one used in awhile. This is high incompetence on the part of an MLB owner. MLB has a major vested interest (or should) in how their franchises operate. They have several franchises (Pittsburgh) not even trying to put a winning team on the field, repeatedly. The system has to change, or franchises need to be eliminated. Not that that would happen. Rules must be in place that demand bar total tanks.
Devlsh
Agree that the system needs to change, but I’m hard pressed to think of exactly what changes can be made that both large market and small market teams can accept AND that meets with player’s approval. When you say “franchises need to be eliminated,” it should be remembered that those are permanent player jobs gone too AND that you’re talking about a LOT of small market, limited revenue teams….KC, Pitt, TB, Clev, Mia, Colo, Mil, Cin, etc.
As for rule changes, is there an anti-tanking rule that still allows the Rays and A’s to maintain a low payroll while winning? Is there a way to compensate players that doesn’t devastate numerous small market teams?
I’m inclined to currently give most teams a partial pass given the pandemic, but this next labor agreement is going to be a mess.
mrperkins
But what I really want to know is what Clepto and Maurice Locke and all the others who constantly bag on Mozeliak have to say.
jbryant0693
I don’t think this writer has done much analysis into the trade value of Story. Away from Coors, Story is mostly an average SS, with a premium one-year salary remaining. The FA deals signed by other SSs clearly indicate that Story would be a salary dump, at best, in any trade.