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redsfan48
Fiinegan’s success is not the key to “getting our money’s worth” for the Cueto. trade. Cody Reed is our #2 pitching prospect and drew rave reviews this spring, he’s the one with the most potential of becoming a superstar. Of course, if 2, or all 3 of the pitchers from the trade (John Lamb is the 3rd) can establish themselves as at least #3-4 starters in the Majors, this could truly look like a steal for the Reds.
Priggs89
I wouldn’t really call it a “steal.” That implies that the Royals have up way too much in comparison to what they received. Just looking at names on paper, it might appear that way, but you can’t discount the fact that they won the World Series with Cueto playing a BIG role. No matter how good those 3 pitchers end up being, that trade is still a big win for the Royals side and a move they will not regret.
baseball guy
They could have won the World Series win without him though
Priggs89
They also could’ve lost it or not even made it there… There’s no way of knowing what would’ve happened if they didn’t make the trade.
The fact is, they made the trade and won the World Series with Cueto playing a big role. Despite everyone’s love for prospects, the point of this game is still to win the World Series, which this move undeniably helped them do. Nobody on the Royals side is regretting that trade if they have a brain.
redsfanman
In fairness, they didn’t say Finnegan was ‘key’, they basically said that he’s offering the most immediate returns while Lamb is on the DL and Reed is in the minors. Finnegan, Lamb, and Reed all have the potential to help the Reds for years… but only the first two have reached the majors so far. Lamb put up an impressive strikeout rate last year, but is so far Finnegan is distinguishing himself through two starts.
It might not be a regrettable deal for the Royals, but trading a rental player (Cueto) for three guys who may be long term members of the rotation sure looks like a steal from the Reds’ perspective. The Reds had lots of RHP prospects and had trouble with finding lefty starters for years, and here they got 3 in the same deal. Lamb in particular draws some skepticism, but he’s shown a lot to like with his huge strikeout rate. Maybe the deal worked out very well for both the Reds and Royals, but it was nevertheless a great deal for the Reds.
Priggs89
That’s fair from the Reds perspective. From the outside looking in, I think at worst (on the Royals side), it’s a win-win. Afterall, the point of playing this game is to win the World Series, which this move absolutely helped them accomplish.
southi
The trade was a no brainer from the Reds point of view from the start. I mean who would desire to keep a pitcher in the last part of his last contractual season when the team was going no where? Of course you’d much rather have legitimate high upside prospects.
redsfanman
Yep, no brainer, but I think the deal was still a lot more than many Reds fans expected. I think many expected one useful MLB starting pitcher in the deal… not two, and certainly not three. I think a lot of Reds fans were pessimistic about getting a no-brainer offer like that, even for Cueto. Despite smaller trades of Latos and Simon (good deals for lesser known guys like DeSclafani and Suarez) Cueto was the first major chip to move.
knolln
rosenthal got one out to finish the 8th on sunday. then the cardinals scored a bunch of runs, and rosenthal went out to pitch the 9th to complete his save in a 7(?) run game.. ended up loading the bases and giving up a run, threw 30 pitches and may well have been unavailable monday. that’s bad managing and a bad justification to boot.
aff10
Of course it’s not ideal, but Matheny isn’t wrong that that save is important for an arbitration closer like Rosenthal. Until arbitration stops paying closers disproportionately to other relievers (and other players in general, for whatever reason), then these situations will continue
Kayrall
I saw Finnegan pitch Monday night at Wrigley. He looked pretty impressive. The Reds may have gained more value from the trade than anyone could have expected.
legit1213
He also needs to pitch to stay fresh. It’s April and everyone’s still getting stretched out. Didn’t Maness close out one of those ATL games? His arm’s not being abused. He also had no save opp’s in Pittsburgh. Relax.
sascoach2003
It may be time to revisit the “save”. The reliever who comes into the game with runners on 1st and 2nd in the 7th inning, with his team up 3-2, and 1 out and gets the next two batters, has effectively “saved” the game, especially if there is no threat in the 8th. But, the “closer” who comes into the game to start the 9th, gets 3 outs, gets the “save”. A reliever can get a “blown save” in the 7th inning, but not a save. With all the stats out there today, maybe “Team Saves”, which could go with “Team Holds”, which may be a better indication of a team’s bullpen effectiveness. I think managers would be more inclined to then think like their early 70s counterparts, who would use a Gossage, or Mike Marshall, for example, for multiple innings, to truly “save” the game. Of course, the flip-side argument would be, pitchers have such defined roles (i.e. set-up, middle relief, closer, LOOGY) that this would have to be blown-up and done away with. Just random thoughts from an old baseball guy
Kayrall
I think that your example fits the criteria of and the best representation of the high leverage situations is a ‘hold’.
Maybe more emphasis and value should be put on hold instead of save?