Earlier today the Yankees returned Rule 5 selection Jamie Hoffmann to the Dodgers, however the doesn't mean they lost him forever. Mark Feinsand of The New York Daily News notes that there have been "plenty of whispers in recent weeks" about the two teams working out a trade to keep Hoffmann in pinstripes, possibly involving Chad Gaudin or Sergio Mitre.
Los Angeles already has plenty of options in camp for the back of their rotation, though many of those pitchers have unfavorable contract situations. Both Gaudin and Mitre are out of options, but there's a chance the Dodgers' brass feels more comfortable with one of them in the rotation instead of their current fifth starter hodgepodge. Last week we heard that the Yanks were "almost certain" to deal one of Gaudin or Mitre.
If a trade is made, it would allow the Yankees to stash Hoffmann in Triple-A, something they couldn't do with the Rule 5 strings attached. After dealing both Melky Cabrera and Austin Jackson earlier this offseason, the team is looking to rebuild some outfield depth.
I like Hoffman, but with Repko and Reed Johnson, I would love to see Gaudin come to LA. I still like him as a 5th starter for us.
Gaudin.. yes.
At first I was confused, but then remembered the whole rule 5’s having to stay on the big league roster thing.
Give ’em Mitre. I wouldn’t give them Gaudin for him.
I’m not sure that Hoffmann gives the Yankees anything in the future. But for what it’s worth, Gaudin for Hoffmann wouldn’t hurt either teams one bit.
If he can be had for Mitre or minor league fodder then by all means do it but there is no reason to give up anything of real value for him. Is he really that much better then Golson or Weber? Probably not and hes just there for depth concerns. If the Dodgers demand Gaudin I pass
If I’m the Dodgers, I’d want Gaudin. If I’m the Yankees, I’d be happy to give them either one. They take Gaudin, save about 2.5 million which could potentially be used for a minor mid-season aquisition(like Hairston Jr. and Hinske last year). They take Mitre, we have the pitcher who has better career numbers and is not recovering from surgery.
I didn’t realize that the Dodgers’ fifth rotation spot was a “hodgepodge.” I thought the situation was that management has a choice of several candidates to fill it. The real issue is that they can’t keep all of them on the roster.
Agreed. Monasterios, Stults, Ramon Ortiz and Russ Ortiz (unfortunately) have all been impressive. Even Josh Towers has been good. And Haeger has just been suffering from thin Arizona air.
McDonald, Elbert and Ayala are the only candidates that have looked bad, and the former two have options left.
So… the yanks opted to loose a minor leaguer in K. Teixeira in favor of drafting Hoffman, knowing they HAD to keep him on the MLB roster, now they return him and are trying to get rid of another player?
Jeeeeeez who´s the genious behind this? why not draft K. Texeira, and trade Gaudin/Mitre for Hoffman? that way they could loose only one player, possibly two if they didn´t keep K. Teixeira in the MLB roster all season long.
You know things are going well for the Yankees when people don’t have much more to complain about than losing a AA reliever in the Rule 5 Draft.
They also lost Zach Kroenke who is better than Texeira. Not sure what Miguel Barajas is talking about because as you said Mike, the Yankees obviously know what they are doing.
So the Dodger’s get a free 25k and might be getting a pitcher in return too?? Sounds pretty good to me.
Who do we like better Dodgerfans, Mitre or Gaudin? Don’t know much about either one
Gaudin and its not close.
So if the Dodger’s rotation is set with Kershaw, Billz, Kuroda, Padilla, Guadin/Mitre what do you propose we do with Stults/Haeger?
Gaudin can be in the pen. Ramon Ortiz is gonna make the club.. Monasterios will likely make the club.
Broxton
Kuo
Sherrill
Tron
Haeger
Gaudin
Monasterios
Weaver/Ramon
With Stults included in the AGon trade?
Stults will never be included in an A-Gon trade.
Aw why you gotta bring my hopes down
Were you being sarcastic.
Half and half, just want AGon in a Dodger uniform
I think there is a legitimate shot he becomes a Dodger. Not with Stults though.
Withrow
Gordon
Robinson
Lindblom
That would be absolute rape.. The Dodgers would never do that.
He’s probably right, though. That’s likely what it would take.
*Maybe* you could substitute Loney for one of them.
Troncoso seems to be pitching himself out of a spot (which shouldn’t be such a surprise considering is mediocre 2nd half last season)…
Broxton, Sherrill, Belisario, Kuo, Monasterios I think all get BP spots. 5th starter will be between Ramon Ortiz and Eric Stults. If Stults gets traded (as rumored), I’m pretty sure Ramon Ortiz wins that spot. In which case Weaver and Haeger will be in the BP and make spot starts.
My guesses, anyway. Troncoso, McDonald, Elbert, Leach and Lindblom could pitch their way onto the team later into the season…
The thing is, Gaudin has a bit of cash tied on. I think the Dodgers should take either or. If it’s clear that none of their internal options are the solution for the 5th spot, they could attempt to acquire Gaudin or Mitre, and I personally would take Mitre, but then again, it doesn’t seem like Hoffmann will ever need to help the Yankees.
Being Mitre a National Leaguer i’d expect any true dodger fan to know more about a player in the league their team plays, and actually Gaudin also pitched for the Padres, who usually battle the LA Dodgers pretty hard every season (both Mitre and Gaudin have a winning record against the blue crew).
Cheers
M.
Is there a point somewhere tied in there?
There is no connection between Gaudin and the Dodgers. So Milwaukee Brewers fans should know everything about Evan Englebrook and Phillies fans should have a strong connection with Brett Carroll?
I wish I my computer had an SAP button. That way I could understand what your are trying to say.
I dont see why the Dodgers take either. We are already having trouble finding spots for out pitchers and why add another? The seem like they want to keep Monsterios and Haeger, and possibly Stults. One of Stults or Haeger will be the #5 and the other in the pen. Monsterios in the pen. With Broxton, Sherrill, Trancosso, and Kuo in the pen already, that is 11 pitchers. If they carry 12, I’d guess one of the Ortiz’s or Weaver to make it… really isnt a lot of room for Gaudin or Mitre.
And, considering we dont have a set LF in 2011, why wouldnt we keep Hoffmann and let him battle it out with Paul, Lambo, and Robinson? When has competition hurt anyone…
Gaudin would be a huge plus.
A 4.64 ERA, including a 5.13 ERA in SD is a huge plus? I think Haeger and Stults can do fairly better than that
His FIP was around 4.
Do you think that Stults or Haeger cant do that? Add in the additional cost of those guys and the fact that you lose a guy in Hoffmann who could be in competition for the LF job next year, does it really make sense?
Chad Gaudin could be a tiny plus, maybe even a small plus, but there are no circumstances that he could be a “huge plus”.
I personally would feel more comfortable with an established starter in our 5th spot which unless we go with one of the Ortiz’s we don’t have. I think we’d only pull the trigger on a trade if we feel Gaudin or Mitre would be an upgrade over our current candidates. This being said I think our rotation would best be set as Kershaw, Billz, Kuroda, Padilla, Stults/Gaudin/Mitre and our bullpen being Broxton, Sherrill, Kuo, Troncoso, and two of Monisterios/Belisario/Weaver/Haeger. If Stults and Haeger don’t make the rotation and Haeger gets beat out in the pen competition they can be thrown into our players that can get traded pool along with McDonald, Elbert, Hu, and Repko.
I think a competition between Paul and Lambo is all thats needed for 2011 for that left field void
The 5th starter spot is where all prospects get their shot. Now, no one who is in the running for the spot now has any major potential, but why go with a washed up veteran instead of a younger guy like Haeger or Stults that could at least be average. Does a great ST erase the last 5 years of crap from the Ortiz’s? I do not want either to be my 5th starter.
Elbert and McDonald can be traded? Maybe McDonald, but I would trade Elbert for anyone unless it was a big package for a superstar. Elbert still has all the potential he had when he was our top prospect, ahead of guys like Billz and Kemp, and is finally healthy. He could make a serious impact in the next two or three years.
You dont want Robinson to get a shot if he has a 2010 like 09? Wow…
Robinson is so far from the Majors..
Also I wanna say Gaudin is the same age if not younger than Stults/Haeger.
Also is a better pitcher.
If Robinson has a year anywhere close to last year, he will be in the majors in 2011. Especially with the LF job open.
And I didnt realize how old Stults/Haeger are, my bad.
Better pitcher? i dont know. Haeger will at least give you 200 innings of less than 4 ERA. Stults is consistent, but not very good. I just think that given the fact we also have to give up 6 years of Hoffmann, and our internal candidates can do something similar to Gaudin.
Don’t trip. But I think you’re way too high on Haeger.
I got to see Robinson a lot last year. Like you said this year will go a long way for his future as a top prospect. When ever he makes the Bigs, ill post the story about him from keeping me from quiting my job.
I like what Haeger brings. 200 innings at a 4 ERA from your 5 spot is almost impossible to come by
Unless he cracks a fingernail or something, then he might as well have broken his hand. We all like the sound of knuckleballers, but there’s a reason very few of them are successful over the long haul. You also need a brick wall behind the plate.
Actually i believe the problem with Stults is he’s is not consistent. He’s good for a couple starts then blows up.
You think Haeger is a guarantee to give you at LEAST 200 innings of less then 4 era? So basically you think he will be one of the 20 best pitchers in the NL? Only 14 pitchers threw at least 200 innings with an era under 4. Hell the only guy to do on the Dodgers staff was Randy Wolf, Billingsly came close but his era was over and he didnt reach 200.
Can I ask what makes you think he will be remotely that good?
He posted an ERA of 3.32 last season. It was obviously a small sample size, so look at his MiLB numbers. When given a chance to start. He has posted an ERA of 4.06, 3.50, 3.07, 4.08, 4.55 and 3.55. I am 100% certain that it averages out to under a 4 ERA.
The 200 innings will be easy for him, IMO, if he is able to start all season. Knucklers can throw all day…
The 3.32 era was in 19 innings in 6 games with only 3 started. Thats way to small a sample size to get anything from. The year prior he had something like a 17 era in 5 innings but again these numbers are waaaay to small to get anything from.
Also you cant just average what he did in the minors era wise and expect that translate to the majors against advanced hitters. If we could do that then pitchers like Buccholz, Hughes, Joba, Price would in the handful of best pitchers in the majors. Haeger has spent 4 years in AAAA and hes allowed 8 hits per 9, walked 4 per 9 and struck out 6.7 per 9- those are not dominating numbers when translated to the majors.
Just for a comparison Tim Wakefield is a very good knuckleball pitcher, and he only managed to throw 200 innings of below 4 era ball one time in his career and come close twice in 17 years.
The numbers you are throwing out there would make Haeger one of the better #3 starters in the NL, but his rate stats dont really show him capable of being that and its not like he has elite stuff. Its easier to trick minor leaguers with gimmick pitches but getting that stuff passed professional hitters will be much more of a chore.
It is generally accepted that at AA and above, the competition gets significantly better. AA and above, Haeger has posted ERAs of 3.78 in AA, 3.07, 4.08, 4.45 and 3.55 in AAA. He has never been given a legit chance to start, even though his MiLB numbers are strong.
And knuckleballers will always have high hit rates. On days the pitch is working, you can’t hit it. But when it is flat, they can give up 15 hits in 5 innings.
And I have never really thought of Wakefield as a good pitcher, he is simply someone who was able to suceede with the knuckler. Also, at least with the ERA, you have to consider he has been in the AL East for a long time
I agree competition gets better as a player climbs the minor league ladder, its also generally accepted that if a player repeats a level a few times he should be dominating those players. After 3 seasons he should be putting up great numbers in the AAA and his numbers were solid but certainly not spectacular. My point about his rate stats are that if thats what they are in AAA then its pretty much a given that the rates will drop somewhat. You cant just expect him to face much better competition and not have his production suffer. This isnt an elite prospect with some track record of dominance, its a guy who quit the sport at one point to play golf and has been released from organizations. By looking at his stats I dont see a guy who can just step in and be a top 20 pitcher in the NL. It wouldnt shock me if Haeger could hold down the 5th starter spot fpr the dodgers but him posting the numbers you have suggested would make him much more then a 5th starter.
As for Wakefield hes been a career 108+ era guy in the Al East. Making him a little bit better then average, that in it itself is a pretty good back end of the rotation pitcher. I despise the team he plays for but its hard to not call him an above average pitcher.
By the way I hope this doesnt come off as me attacking you or anything because thats really not my intention.
You’re right, Gaudin will be 28 in 2 days
Haeger is 28 and Stults is 31
Ideally I’d like to see Stults as our 5th starter. I like Elbert but haven’t seen much promise as a starter and I think if his potential stops at a relief pitcher he’s better suited in a trade [as in to San Diego for AGon] though now that i think about it we have some room in our rotation next year. Don’t know much about Robinson which is part of the reason i left him out, also, I’d like to see Lambo get the job.
OK we are not getting AGON.
1. They will not take Loney(hes gonna break out)
2. Ill stop rooting for this team if they trade: Withrow, E. Martin, Gordon, and anyone else in the top 10. SD will want 2 of them. Most likely 3.
3. We will not pay him, so whats the point?
You’re absolutely right about the prospects, if any of those guys named were included i would not like the trade. I really really really hope Loney has a breakout year as far as powers concerned, i like the guy but cmon, he has the potential but no pop, i give him one more year and if the power still isnt there then we should look to trade [unless SD would take him] we need some power out of our 1st basemen
I want Haeger as our 5th starter because the idea that he can eat innings while having a solid ERA makes me happy.
Elbert has #3 potential if he refines the changeup and if he refines the change and improves his control, he has #2 potential. Remember, he is still just 24.
Robinson came out of the blue. He had been an average prospect until last year, and then put all the tools together. If he proves last year wasnt a fluke, he could be a VERY good LF in 2011 and beyond.
Ive like Lambo because he was able to overcome the HS problems and become a very good prospect. This year is very important as it will be his 2nd vs advanced pitching. If he succeeds, he has a really strong shot at the LF job, if he fails, he may get that bust tag on him.
So in your guys’ opinion, with all things considered, who’s the better player, Robinson or Lambo?
Lambo but they are totally different skill sets. If Robinson can play CF in the bigs, his skill set might make him the better player in the long run.
Robinson = Leadoff hitter.
Lambo = 3/4/5 Hitter.
Hopefully.
Lambo could have the better bat, but Robinson provides speed and defense. Id say they are pretty close.
Here are some comparisons I have heard. If Robinson has a big year and proves it wasnt a fluke, he has Carl Crawford potential, with slightly less speed.
For Lambo, remember him and Jason Heyward were side by side last year on prospect reports. If Lambo’s bat comes around, it could be like Heywards.. except Lambo doesnt have the defense which is a big part of Heyward’s game.
If I had to choose one, Id go Robinson because he could be the more complete player.
Totally agree.
I like what I’m hearing about Robinson, but with Gordon coming up as our future leadoff hitter couldnt we use the pop off Lambo’s bat?
Technically, they both could be on the roster. If Loney
doesn’t break out power wise, Lambo probably will take over 1B. If Loney does
break out, we won’t need to have Lambo’s bat over the more-complete player in Robinson…
________________________________
I like what I’m hearing about Robinson, but with Gordon coming up as our future leadoff hitter couldnt we use the pop off Lambo’s bat?
Unbelievable. Hoffman for Brian Bruney and Gaudin/Mitre. Let’s not forget they already gave up a big league reliever (Bruney) to give Hoffman a shot and now they might give up a big league starter to get him back after an unimpressive spring.