Despite John Mozeliak's insistence that Colby Rasmus will not be traded, multiple teams could make a push for the outfielder this winter, according to Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. In a chat with fans, Strauss indicated that the Braves, Blue Jays, and Diamondbacks are among the teams interested in prying Rasmus away from the Cardinals.
A report earlier this season suggested that a rift between Rasmus and manager Tony La Russa led to the 24-year-old requesting a trade. With La Russa mulling a return to St. Louis for 2011, rival teams are presumably hoping the Cardinals will reconsider their stance on keeping Rasmus. Even if they don't intend to move their former first-round pick, the Cards "will have ample opportunity to turn down trade offers on Rasmus in upcoming weeks and months," according to Strauss.
A month ago, when MLBTR's Ben Nicholson-Smith looked at possible trade partners for the Cardinals and Rasmus, his list included the Braves and Jays, among other clubs.
I believe every team would make a run at a young player of that caliber (and under team contract to boot!). I think we need to be looking at, who could offer what.
Absolutely agree! Of course now this thread will be filled with offers of non top prospects and bench players. Rasmus will get top talent in return for any team he goes to, and I believe every team would be interested.
Absolutely. Any team would want a player of this calliber. But the Cardinals simply arent letting Rasmus go. Why would Mozeliak get 60 cents to the dollar on a player who has underperformed in his first two seasons in the Major Leagues? The Cardinals are a much better team with Rasmus, and thats even when he is posting the numbers he put up this year. Not to mention he will likely play much better next year and he is a cheap, solid option.
Absolutely. Any team would want a player of this calliber. But the Cardinals simply arent letting Rasmus go. Why would Mozeliak get 60 cents to the dollar on a player who has underperformed in his first two seasons in the Major Leagues? The Cardinals are a much better team with Rasmus, and thats even when he is posting the numbers he put up this year. Not to mention he will likely play much better next year and he is a cheap, solid option.
Marcum, D’Arnaud, Stewart for Rasmus.
i agree with D’Arnaud and Stewart but who do we have to replace Marcum? A FA?
I also agree: D’arnaud is redundant since Carlos Perez has emerged (not to mention Arencibia) and Stewart is blocked at the major league level. Drabek would step into Marcum’s spot, and Rzep and SHill would battle for the 5th spot.
It would STILL be a huge win for the Jays.
but Stewart is (supposedly according to AA) as good as Drabek
i’d say trade Marcum, start both Drabek and Stewart, trade or pen Rzep and Hill
I agree with this. Marcum, D’Arnaud, another good prospect.. But who and would it be enough.
is there no way that we’re keeping d’arnaud?
is he not as good as i think he is?
He has nice value and I think Carlos Perez will be even better. Jays have the most catching depth in all of baseball.
They do? I’m not disagreeing with you, but the Yankees have a ton of depth at Catcher. I thought they had the most depth at that position. I’ve only read on Carlos Perez, J.P. Arencibia, and Travis D’Arnaud. Can you give me some more names?
AJ Jimenez. Yankees are a close second. Again, fangraphs had an article on this exact topic comparing each Yankee catcher to each Jays one.
Oh, I see.
D’Arnaud is far from redundant. When he’s healthy he’s a very solid 2 way catcher and is far ahead of Perez, who has yet to reach Lansing, in development. And I wouldn’t be trading away catchers on the basis of a hot season by Arencibia in homer happy Vegas.
EHhhh. Not far… both are damn close and due to Arnaud being injured may have hurt his value while Perez was pretty beast.
I would also watch our for Jiminez. He seems to get no respect in our system.
He’s not far ahead on Carlos Perez at all. Go look at recent scouting reports on Perez.
Go read what I wrote. 2 full levels is far ahead in terms of development and means D’Arnaud is nowhere near redundant. You don’t go trading higher level prospects because a guy had a good season in the GCL or NYPL.
Come reply to this when they release Jays top prospects for next year. You will see everyone rave about Perez, it’s not just ‘stats’ in lower ball…
Not taking anything away from D’Arnaud, because I like him too, but Perez is gonna fly up prospect lists.
You also missed what I wrote. I don’t deny for a second that Perez has a higher ceiling than D’Arnaud. The only point I am making is that they are 2 full levels apart and therefore D’Arnaud isn’t close to redundant – they are on completely different time tables and the Blue Jays are clearly taking their time with Carlos.
You also missed what I wrote. I don’t deny for a second that Perez has a higher ceiling than D’Arnaud. The only point I am making is that they are 2 full levels apart and therefore D’Arnaud isn’t close to redundant – they are on completely different time tables and the Blue Jays are clearly taking their time with Carlos.
Way too much. Every Blue Jay, prospect or major leaguer, is underrated.
I wouldn’t say that. Just because they are lost in the Rays, Yanks and Sox sometimes doesn’t mean they are all underrated. I actually think there are a couple of over hyped guys on that team.
Like who?
no jays are overhyped because americans dont care about them
that’s just because things in Canada don’t matter.
Be Canadian: live like an American without having to call yourself one.
Didn’t mean to like that, hit the wrong button.
So you want to be American and live like us, without having to do absolutely anything with your life except protect yourself against bears? Which clearly is a full time job.
well…
at least we don’t have to protect ourselves against guns
thank goodness
Yes. We live in igloos, ride polar bears to work and say eh after every sentence. Post less, read more there Mr. Palin.
You got to me hullo, I am jealous, I totally would love to ride a polar bear to work.
We also have a 5th season to go along with Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter. It’s 2 months when we are in complete darkess, and it’s called the Canadark.
troll much?
I would have to strongly agree.
But I dont think D`Arnaud and Stewart are underrated. Stewart would be a much higher ranked prospect if scouts knew whether he could be a future starter but they don`t. Some say he could be a reliever which hurts his value.
D`Arnaud is still pretty raw and was great before getting injured but I think he is still a top 100 prospect that is solid all-around.
Wow…a lot of comments removed in this thread. Got here to late. I guess this is what I get for watching the hockey game.
Not enough…Rasmus is an elite player not even close to his peak years yet. He’ll bring an absolute boatload of talent in return.His most similar batter through Age 23 is Bobby Bonds, that’s how good he’s been so far.
Too bad Colby Rasmus isn’t Bonds at all. He is a Mike Cameron type player. Not bad but certainly not Bonds.
I assume you know that Bobby Bonds isn’t Barry Bonds. Baseball-Reference has Bobby as #1 on Rasmus’ most similar by age list.
yeah sorry haha it’s late.
Cool. Let me know when Rasmus posts an OBP above .365.
He said Bobby Bonds.
Cut the guy some slack. Most 12 year-old don’t know that Barry’s dad was a pretty good ball player too.
Maybe if Rasmus pumps enough synthetic horse testosterone into his bloodstream he could post a .600 obp. too.
Yes because steroids made Barry Bonds the second best hitter of all-time.
Also, every hitter should take HGH and they’d hit 54 bombs like Jose Bautista.
Dude, he means Bobby Bonds. He was really good at baseball, though all people pay attention is Barry.
Duh. I’m saying Barry Bonds never would have put up those numbers had he not been on steroids. Maybe people don’t pay attention to Bobby Bonds anymore because he retired before most of us were born. Oh yeah, he’s also been dead for seven years.
so you’re saying that if johnny mac took steroids he would belt 50 homeruns??
In this magical land you live in is their unicorns and leprechaun too?
Duh. I’m saying Barry Bonds never would have put up those numbers (.600 OBP) had he not been on steroids. That implies nothing else. A lot of players have hit 50 HRs without the help of steroids. A lot of players have used steroids and never hit 50 HRs. What I am staying is Barry Bonds never would have put up those numbers had he not been on steroids. That is what I am saying. Want me to say it again? Is this clear enough for you? I’m saying Barry Bonds never would have put up those numbers had he not been on steroids.
so what you’re saying is steroids don’t neccesarily make a batter a 50 HR hitter
but Barry Bonds only hit 50 HRs because he was taking steroids?
great logic there man
Bonds could have hit 50 HRs without steroids. He didn’t, but he could have. That isn’t really what I’m saying, but it is true. Bonds never hit 50 HRs while not on steroids. In 1993 he hit 46. Bonds actually only hit more than 50 HRs once. I only mentioned 50 HR’s because some other guy put those words in my mouth. What I am saying is Bonds couldn’t have posted a .600 OBP without steroids. The player with the highest single season OBP. whose name isn’t Barry Bonds is Ted Williams in 1941, when his got on base at a ridiculous .553 clip. This, of course, was the year he also batted .406. Only 10 players have ever gotten on base more than 50% of the time for an entire season. I think this is a lot more impressive than hitting 50 HRs.
the OBP is partly due to his rediculous number of IBB
Obviously.
so in reality, his OBP would not be .600
if disregard his IBB, his OBP would just be about .500, still a crazy high number, but it has been achieved by players who are yet to be identified as using PEDs or HGHs or whatever else that helps
Now you’ve got it. If Bonds wasn’t on ‘roids, teams would have opted to pitch to him instead of purposely putting him on base 122 times.
Obviously.
Okay. And Brandon Belt is putting up Babe Ruth numbers in AA. But he isn’t great.
You mean “Roids” Bonds? Rasmus doesn’t make a difference in a game, since you can tell by his WPA, which is .58 this season. When you talk about elite, you will be talking about Buster Posey, Justin Upton, Tim Lincecum, Robinson Cano, Delmon Young, Ubaldo Jimenez, Clay Buchholz, David Price, Trevor Cahill, Felix Hernandez, Jaime Garcia, Josh Johnson, Neftali Feliz, Carlos Gonzalez, Joey Votto, Yovani Gallardo, and Jason Heyward. Those are some of the players that came up within the last few years. Each one of those players are better than Rasmus. Need I remind you, he did request a trade, so the Cardinals lost their leverage.
Delmon Young, Jaime Garcia and Trevor Cahill don’t have 1/4 of Colby Rasmus’ value.
Fangraphs recently did a trade value list and Rasmus was #14 in all of baseball.
if Rasmus was so irrelevant
why is practically the entire MLB interested in having him?
Show one report that shows what you just claimed. You can’t show one, because there isn’t one.
Bobby Bonds, not Barry Bonds. Try reading.
No. Here’s what I think
I say Marisnick, D’Arnaud, Krouse, and Stewart for Rasmus if it’s the Jays.
Also keep an eye on the Royals…They could get in on this.
Never even heard of Krouse. Throw in Marcum take back Stewart. Cmooon
Michael Krouse. And if you add in Marcum and take out Krouse it’s asking for trouble. Krouse and Marisnick are two good prospect with tremendous upside. Stewart is a very good prospect as I’m sure you know and keep D’Arnaud. I am very familiar with the Jays system mainly because I know a lot of players on the Fisher Cats and I saw them play many a times this summer. I’m not saying you don’t, I’m just saying Marcum should stay, Krouse, D’Arnaud, Marisnick, and Stewart should go.
so you don’t think Stewart will be as good as Marcum?
no offence intended at all, im just curious
Nope. I see Stewart as a reliever in the long term simply because of his delivery issues.
AA disagrees, and with all do respect, so do i. He may start in the pen because of the logjam in the rotation, but with time, he will be at the front of someones mlb rotation. Down the stretch he was quietly BETTER then drabek.
That was down the stretch, but Drabek is and will be a better pitcher in the long term than Stewart. I was just saying my opinion though, you know I think Stewart is awesome, I do, but I’m just not as high on him as a lot of Jays fans are. He had a really good season, I just don’t know if he will maintain that going forward, especially as a starter.
I just feel like Marcum should be the one that goes because he’s under team control for lesser years and is older.
….and he’s also far less proven and at some point, don’t the Jays need to actually hold onto a few of their home-grown guys?
You’re acting like the Jays are the Pirates. You need to give up something to get something.
We don`t have a Krouse. We have Michael Crouse. From what I`ve read, he is a raw prospect and had a good season last year. Supposed 5-tooler but he is wayyyy too far away before sniffing the big leagues.
I think it is Crouse. Canadian. About same age as Marsnick..at same level…little bit more power less speed.
Outside of Stewart I don’t see anyone really intriguing. Crouse is young and hasn’t put up eye popping numbers, D’Arnaud has struggled in the low minors so I think his stock is down, and Marisnick is talented but hasn’t showed anything yet at all. Talent is big but 3 of those 4 guys haven’t done anything special.
D’Arnaud just got ranked the #1 hitter in the Florida State League by Baseball America but okay.
I realize it is a pitchers league to some extent but sorry I’m not that excited about .259/.315/.411, 21% K%, 6% BB%, 6HRs in 71 games. I realize he is a catcher but either he needs more power or a better average.
He was hitting for power, hitting for high batting average, getting on base before the injury. After that, he was terrible and got injured again.
I believe before the injury he was around .300, .350 OBP, 6 HR and 28 RBI and was probably our hottest and best prospect at the time… and well I explained the rest before.
Marisnick actually has tremendous upside and is well liked by Goldstein and Callis. It’s actually not as bad as you would think but it’s decent. So seriously man (don’t know your name or what to call you beause your commenting name isn’t like SPAN, joe, or Mike you know?) what do you suggest because trading Marcum doesn’t make sense…D’Arnaud is still very young, and the two OF’s have tons of upside. Do you trade Adeiny? Thames?
Eric Thames is actually a very good prospect. Know him well. Great guy and someone who everyone should like.
If they trade he, D’Arnaud, Stewart, and Marisnick…That is definetly a fair trade.
I’m not bringing up trades just commenting. Me and you do have different styles though I have come to learn. You like the high upside, low minors guys where-as I prefer the lower risk guys. I was just playing the devil’s advocate in the situation based on my style.
That’s really interesting and I guess you’re right. I do really like all kinds of prospects but I suppose I have a little more patience for upside guys. So then if we have each other nicknames for the type of prospects we like, I’m Anthony Gose and you’re Kyle Weiland. Yes? Haha.
But yeah I always like talking with you on MLBTR. You’re one of the more knowledgeable guys on here, but there’s 1 problem, you’re a Sox fan!
haha I know gotta hate them Sox. And I’m more of a Brett Wallace guy to some extent and you are Anthony Gose. I like that example since it was a trade earlier this season even though I’m not really wild about Wallace still.
Well to me, Wallace is really overrated. He doesn’t play a good 1B, and doesn’t really get on base. Maybe to make you sound more noble, you should be Mike Leake and ill be Zack Wheeler maybe?
Well to me, Wallace is really overrated. He doesn’t play a good 1B, and doesn’t really get on base. Maybe to make you sound more noble, you should be Mike Leake and ill be Zack Wheeler maybe?
Sorry jwredsox…you like low risk and high upside…like Kelly!
haha I know gotta hate them Sox. And I’m more of a Brett Wallace guy to some extent and you are Anthony Gose. I like that example since it was a trade earlier this season even though I’m not really wild about Wallace still.
I would say think of what the Jays would ask for Travis Snider. Cardinals probably want the same for Rasmus.
If the Jays think X is worth Travis Snider, the Cardinals had better get more than X for Rasmus.
Snider has a lot of talent, and it’s not a matter of Cardinal fans overrating Rasmus. Remember that however highly touted Snider has been, Rasmus was there, near the top of a lot of prospect lists. The big difference between them is that Rasmus has translated that talent onto the field for at least one full year.
Noooooooooooo
either you’re underrated the Jays guys or overrating rasmus
he is VERY good, but not good enough to give 2 of out best prospects and a top of the rotation starter.
I’d say Marcum, Arencibia (if we do bring back Buck), and Rzep/Jenkins/Mcguire (this may not be good enough for the Cards to take, but IMO they balance out to around the level of Rasmus)
i meant two of Rzep/Jenkins/Mcquire
McGuire is not allowed to be traded by league rules, and Zep has no trade value.
shows how much i know
He’s right.. Rzep doesn’t have any value right now.
I disagree. smart GMs will look beyond an injury-riddled season and assess his overall body of work (including minors)
His value isn’t as high as it was before the season, but his last 2 starts didn’t hurt…
smart GM’s also don’t look at 2 starts to mean a single thing. also his body of work isn’t all that impressive. neither is his stuff. sorry, no value IMO.
agree on value, disagree on stuff. He does has strikeout potential.
2 starts? Huh? He had an ERA under 4 through the month of September… you know when he finally started to find it. Do you remember how Morrow`s first month went?
He doesnt have overpowering fastball or great command but hes got some nasty pitches and good break on those pitches. He is still trying to harness the command and if he can cut down on his walks he can be a pretty solid pitcher. He was great in 09 but was injured before the season started and it seems he never found it until September.
He does have value, not as much as last year because he had an off-year but he would be a great buy-low option which would be stupid in Jays part to trade him because you apparently think he has no value which is not true.
He’s like 7th on the Jays SP depth chart.
And that makes him have no value?
Okay.
His slider is devastating, rzep has way more value then you are giving him credit for. He also rose through the jays system pretty quickly, why don’t you give him some time to mature as a professional pitcher rather act like a hater
Buck isn’t coming back… he wants a long-term contract and AA wants the picks.
Cecil for Rasmus, straight up. Works for both sides. Your price is way too high.
My price? Dude I’m a die-hard Jays fan. It’s what the going price will be. Not a #3 starter for top 5 CF in the game. (And I love Cecil).
First of all, Cecil was basically in his first full season this year. The notion that he’s a “#3 starter” is absurd when he had basically the same ERA as Greinke, Buehrle, Lackey, especially if you’re going to be emphatic and say Rasmus is already a top 5 CF in the game (Hamilton, Gonzalez, Kemp, Sizemore, Wells, Granderson, Rios, Victorino…). Cecil would dominate pitching in the NL Central if he can go 11-2 in 15 AL East starts, and the Cardinals would be getting an extra year of control. It shouldn’t take much more than Cecil to get it done and you are severely overrating Rasmus and underrating Cecil in the process.
Colby Rasmus is far better than Kemp, Sizemore, Wells, Granderson, Rios, and Victorino, hands down. Just sayin’. So you’ve only got two guys better than him.
Rasmus is definitley not better than Sizemore not even close
Based on what? Sizemore’s numbers from 2008? Sure, a 7 WAR season is freaking fantastic. Since then, though, he’s been worth a whopping total of 1.6 WAR over two injury-and-suck-filled years. I’ll take Rasmus.
Looking closer, though, there are arguments to be made for Wells, Granderson, and Rios, though all of them are inconsistent on a year-to-year basis and Rasmus is cheaper and younger (i.e. on the rise). So I’d still take Colby over them.
I wouldn’t want to give up Marcum. Its their rotation that keeps the Jays competitive. Keep the 5 projected starters (Marcum, Cecil, Romero, Drabek, and Morrow) and build around them. Its an inexpensive group and there isn’t any free agents that would fit the payroll and be an upgrade. That way you don’t have to rush the younger pitchers until they are ready. And you do have to field a rotation of Litsch types. See if you can get Rasmus for prospects. Maybe send Arrencibia (sp) and resign Buck.
I would love to have Rasmus on the Braves, but they will want players that Braves will need in a few years. Ex: Teheran.
What about parting ways with maybe Delgado and Vizcaino instead of Teheran?
Yes Yes Yes
Depends on which Delgado you mean. If you mean Randell, I approve. But, I’m really high on Vizcaino. Maybe Delgado with some other prospects not name Teheran or Vizcaino or Freeman.
A lot of people are more bullish on Delgado, especially since Vizcaino tore his UCL this season. I’d give up Vizcaino before Delgado. And nobody is going to be asking for Dimaster Delgado, his career may have been ended by that car crash.
Hanson, Jurrjens, Minor, Teheran, Vizcaino will most likely be headlining the rotation in 2013. If Jurrjens is gone, then Delgado would be in there. I was also thinking about Jurrjens for Rasmus straight up. Jurrjens is young, proven, and under contract for three more years.
The part on Vizcaino is your opinion. Especially considering Vizcaino’s arm issues, most see Delgado as the better prospect right now.
Some pitchers come back and are better after having an injury. Tim Hudson, Cliff Lee, Brett Myers, and quite a few others. Just because they have an injury doesn’t mean their going to be worse.
Yes I meant Randall. What about he, Bethancourt, Perez, and Beachy for Rasmus and Jones?
About about Craig instead of Jones? Even though I know that will never happen. Have Rasmus, Craig, and Heyward in that outfield would make the Braves a lot better. Maybe add Milligan or Johnson also.
I’m not a big on Craig as most, but I hear ya.
Don’t gotta be high on him, but you gotta admit that it would be one of the best, if not the best OF in baseball.
Well that’s the thing I don’t think he is as good as you’re making him. Would it be one of the best outfields in Baseball? Probably. Is it probably the best young OF? Probably. But I don’t think It would be one of the best because I don’t thing Craig is that good. Heyward and Rasmus are two of the best young players in Baseball though.
Look at it this way. Would you rather have Craig in the OF, or McLouth/Cabrera in the OF? What do you think of Jon Jay?
NOOO Teheran shall not be traded…
I’d give up Arodys Vizcaino or Delgado or both for him.. seeing as the Cards really need cheap pitching depth and good prospects since I doubt they can keep Carpenter through 2012.
carpenter is owed 15million. let the guy walk and pick up one more pitcher from the free agent market and let maybe Shelby Miller take his spot(not as an ace right away, but a spot in the rotation)
Ok, so that’s Adam Wainwright, Shelby Miller, and Jaime Garcia. You need more than that.
lance lynn, kyle McClellan are their. 2 of the three you mentioned would be cost controlled players and its not like the cardinals have never signed a free agent before.
carpenter is owed 15million. let the guy walk and pick up one more pitcher from the free agent market and let maybe Shelby Miller take his spot(not as an ace right away, but a spot in the rotation)
No real information from Joe Strauss here. It is just him saying that teams will call about him without any real sources except his own opinions. Until a real team comes out and says they will make a run or Mozeliak says he will field offers shouldn’t he be described as not going anywhere especially since La Russa (the guy he has the rift with) is likely leaving? just wondering.
He’ll be traded; the other teams know it, and Mozeliak knows it too. Every player that has a problem with LaRussa has been traded. The other teams know that too. They will all lay back and wait until they hear rumblings of the situation being untenable between LaRussa and Rasmus, and they’ll pounce. The Cardinals won’t get anything near his value. But LaRussa will be happy. Until he finds the next player he finds untenable on his team. Then the process start all over again.
It’s beyond me why they keep LaRussa around. He hasn’t done much with the teams he’s been given the last couple of years. He is such an unpleasant, arrogant man. Ha, the Cardinals can have him!
I heard his relationship with Pujols is not on the greatest of terms either. I think with Pujols they may draw the line and tell Tony to get along with him or else.
“Every player that has a problem with LaRussa has been traded.”
Unless John Mozeliak is oblivious and doesn’t realize Tony la Russa is about to retire, there’s no logic here.
As a Jays fan, Colby Rasmus is #1 on my Offseason Wish list. I would trade anyone but Travis Snider for him. ANYONE.
I agree. Snider is the only untouchable on this team.
As a Jays fan myself, he is number 1 on my Jays wish list as well…But I also want Kelly Johnson, and a few others. Oh my gosh I really want them to get Rasmus!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kelly Johnson, really? Dude’s coming off a career year… Meh.
Kelly Johnson has had 1 good year and he tailed off towards the end. I would not want him
One good year? Look again.
His only other decent year was In 2007, and even in that year he didn’t com close to living up to the expectations the Braves had for him.
Keith – I’d love to hear how batting .337/.396/.609 in September is “tailing” off…
An outfield of Snider, Rasmus, and Gose in the future… that’s pretty scary right there
probably not gonna happen anyways… but we can dream
You think that’s good, look at what the D-backs could have if they get Rasmus. Provided they don’t give up Young or Upton, which they obviously won’t, that’s a ridiculous OF.
Very
you don’t count. your an everybody fan.
Fair enough. I want everybody to get everybody.
cough except the yankees cough
Stewart from the Jays?? This guy is supposed to be almost as good as Drabek, AA said so himself, its just that he is overlooked. One of Jeroloman and D’Arnaud, Marcum and maybe a lesser pitching prospect
Jeroloman is a backup at best. Switch him with our best OF prospect.
give em D’Arnaud, Marcum and sierra?
or Thames. Not sure who’s stock is higher. Maybe Marisnick
Eric Thames has less upside as Marisnick but is closer to the Majors.
That would be Gose and I don’t think other teams may place as much value on him as the Jays do. Thames is an OF and won MVP of the Eastern League I believe but he’s a corner OF at best.
Meh.. no need for Gose if we have Rasmus. I’m not that high on Gose anyways. We overpaid for him (although Wallace prolly won’t amount to much). He can’t really hit and his caught stealing % is horrific.
Rasmus is a free agent in 3 years? 4?
when he leaves, Gose will fit in nicely dont you think?
who knows how Gose will turn out though
yes. thats why he’s a prospect
Of course. Who really knows how prospects will pan out.
EX. Andy LaRoche upside- “He plain just has power. He hits, and hits with power.”
Not so much now eh?(No pun intended.)
I would love to see Gose AND Rasmus in the Jays OF. That would be great. It’s pretty much Denard Span and Colby Rasmus. Gose is still very young and raw. He will have a big ’11.
if wallace wont amount to much, then how badly did we really overpay??
i would certainly drool over a snider gose rasmus outfield, thats +++ defense all over the place, especially since it lets you put snider (the weakest defender) in left. the offense wouldnt be great too, especially if gose amounts to more than a tony gwynn jr type. both snider and rasmus have 30HR power
Look at Snider’s UZR in LF this year. Small sample size but still. He’s no slouch in the outfield.
Yeah his range is really improving.
He also got like 6, 7 steals this year lol. Really helped that he lost all that baby fat.
Keep that going he might be primed for a breakout 2011.
I think he definitely is.
He was hot before getting injured and was pretty good before the end of season. I mean his power is absolutely ridiculous. Yes I know this is crazy but he does have 50 homerun potential. Who knows if he will ever reach it but he’s got so much raw power and the way his body is built is insane and the fact he is starting to become some-what of a 5-tooler. His speed has improved along with his defense and he’s got a good arm. Once he gets older, I think he will round into a much more complete player.
I’m so pumped to see him next season.
5-Tool Player
I already know about his power potential. He did hit for a good average when he first came up. His speed and range has improved as I can see from all the Yankees-Blue Jays games I saw this year. Where’s his arm? lol
Keep that going he might be primed for a breakout 2011.
Jomo has no trade value really. Great guy. Know him from AA…But he really cant be a center piece in any package.
Is it wrong that I wish they’d get rid of LaRussa instead? (And Pujols while they’re at it).
Clearly there’s something wrong with the clubhouse, the team or the administration. I’m willing to give the administration the benefit of the doubt lately, because the things spewed by LaRussa and Pujols have basically been detrimental to the future of the team AND they haven’t proven that the attitude they have is a winning one. Last year was a fluke for a terrible team only because the rest of the NL Central was just horrible. They got lucky and played the worst teams at the right time (August filled with San Diego, Washington, Houston and Cincinnati) and watched the rest of the Central just flop.
There needs to be a change, I think it starts with LaRussa. If that means Pujols doesn’t want to be around either, cool. Whatever’s going on, is not working. Too bad they’ve already offered him a contract and they’re probably going to trade Rasmus because nobody sticks around once you piss off LaRussa in the slightest. If they could have passed him through waivers I’m sure he’d have been gone in August. At least now maybe they’ll get 2-3 prospects, maybe one of which pans out.
No.
No one has been shipped out for ticking off TLR since Jocketty left.
How about Bautista (does he stay?), Marcum, D’arnaud?
not enough?
I like the idea of selling high on Bautista. Send Bautista and any minor leaguer other than Stewart for Rasmus. The Cards need offense out of 3b or of, so they’d have to at least consider it.
I would actually consider that. Probably a bit too much on the Jay’s side though, they couldn’t give up Marcum AND Bautista and still contend.
Maybe not in 2011….but….2012???
anyone think Drabek + 1 decent prospect
if AA can pull that off, he’s a genius
No one is trading Drabek. Don’t even go there. Especially after today.
are you still bitter about Doc?
Drabek is probably the next closest thing to untouchable for the Jays other than Snider who I presume is fully untouchable.
so if the Cards were willing to give Rasmus straight up for Drabek you wouldn’t do it?
I would probably do it but I just wouldnt want to trade a pitcher of his caliber away, especially with the stuff he has and the fact there is so emphasis on building a great pitching staff.
I would sub him for Stewart ++ though. Stewart isnt as far off as Drabek as you may think.
I’d do it if I switched him for Zach Stewart and another prospect. Stewart is just as good as Drabek(source, Alex Anthoupolous Blue Jays GM)
ofcourse AA would do that in a heartbeat. but the cards wouldn’t do that. Rasmus will bring back 3 players minimum, in a multy player deal i wouldn’t include romero, cecil, drabek or snider.
I’d do this as the jays, Thames, D’arnaud, Marcum. . take it and go, they won’t get a deal better then that no way no how. Not to mention Marcum BELONGS in the NL… anyone ever seen him take batting practice? he could be a 2nd basemen, easy.
If Marcumd didn’t tickle the cards fancy, i’d do thames, stewart, emaus … or heck i’d even trade hill
I’ve posted this before, but: What about the Jays EATING Wells’ contract (or most of it) and adding Drabek or Stewart (probably a third prospect as well)
Wells and Rasmus have similar OPS, Similar WAR #s, and both play above-average defence.
If the Jays eat $14-$18Mill of VW’s salary each year, they could consider it the cost of a top prospect. STL would get a good replacement for Rasmus immediately, and add a Pitcher too. Toronto would have a HUGE building block
Vernon wells has a -6.3 UZR this year. Hardly above average
And yet despite the negative rating, he posted a 4.0 WAR
He has always been an above average fielder, despite the last few seasons. He can still man the position and be valuable to the Cards in a playoff chase.
Because of all that playoff experience he has right?
UZR has Wells as one of the worst defensive CF’s in the game the last few years.
Wells isn’t going anywhere. Jays can pay the contract and they will.
You mean like all Roy Halladay’s playoff experience?
I’m not saying they NEED to move the contract, but they CAN afford to eat most of it to gain a valuable asset
i really like wells, and i think he’s a pretty good centre fielder,
but lets not compare Hallday with Wells… seriously…
i meant wells with halladay
Not comparing the talent, just the fact that playoff experience is IRRELEVANT
But I’m referring to why you think Vernon Wells will be good to have in the playoffs exactly?
not to nitpitck, but he said playoff chase…
even still all things considering, the cardinals have to be prepared in case pujols leaves. trading a 24 year old with great offensive potential is not the smartest of moves. not unless ur gonna get back a David Wright AND a couple of prospects, and immediately sign DW to a 5 year extension. because that would be the equal of a Rasmus at this point.
umm cuz he’s a good hitter… do you honestly think experience is the only thing that leads to success in the post season?…. and ps. uzr is a terrible tool for measuring defense. you people follow so blindly. so much is dependent on so many factors.
i still think defense is something you have to eyeball to get the right idea
wells still makes the over-the-head basket catch better than anyone in the game, and i dont think the jays pitching staff is complaining far and wide about the guy’s UZR.
His WAR is mostly based off his offensive numbers. If he hit like most CFers – minor power – he would easily have negative value.
Vernon Wells is a RFer playing CF at this stage of his career.
Marcum + d’Arnaud + B-rated prospect would do it.
Hechavarria and Morrow I would also classify as untouchable.
okay…
so we’ll lose two of our potential future aces (not saying they will be, but they are supposedly good enough to be) and a decent centre fielder (and we won’t even be dumping much of his salary) for 1 OF
i guess the Cards will take that
thats called giving up way too much.
an above average veteran CF, and your top pitching prospect + one other.
jeez… thats suicidal especially if you hav to eat wells’ contract as well. you’re saying that rasmus is worth wells, drabek, another prospect and a $15mill salary per year. i’m not sure theres a player in the league worth that much.
thats called giving up way too much.
an above average veteran CF, and your top pitching prospect + one other.
jeez… thats suicidal especially if you hav to eat wells’ contract as well. you’re saying that rasmus is worth wells, drabek, another prospect and a $15mill salary per year. i’m not sure theres a player in the league worth that much.
Does Julio Teheran have more value than Kyle Drabek? Hmmm
i think so.
i think so.
Personally I think that we should really analyze what the Cards NEED:
At least one SP
3B
maybe 2B
an OF to replace Rasmus
Does anyone else think Aaron Hill could be in play? He had a miserable season this year, but still has upside + value + defense. He can play 2nd or 3rd too.
Just another idea
I doubt the Jays sell low on Hill and it creates a major hole at 2B.
I could see Bautista going the other way who can play outfield or 3rd base.
Perhaps Bautista + Jenkins + Thames (he had a very solid year and should start in AAA next season).
i like
but there’s no way the Cards take that right?
Ah well you can switch Jenkins for Stewart.
But dont underestimate Thames. He was finally healthy for like a while in his career and put up great numbers.
I’m not sure that anyone values Bautista as highly as the Jays do. If he went the other way I’d be okay with it, but the common stance on him is: “Prove it again before we believe you”
I agree with the “prove it again” thought. Another thing to consider is that Bautista will probably become pretty expensive through arbitration and St. Louis might be looking for cheap pieces in any trade for Rasmus.
brad emaus says hello… losing hill would be the best thing for the jays, EE has a better career ops. Aaron just doesn’t get on base pure and simple, even when he had a good year he never walked. 2b should be a high obp position
IMO if we offer Hill, the Cards might take him, but his value is at its absolute minimum right now so we’ll end up having to give up more and overpaying
I’d have no problem overpaying for Rasmus. He is basically a faster Snider, who plays CF. if we can get him for anyone but Snider, it’s a HUGE win.
As for filling the hole at 2B, Kelley Johnson has been suggested. also, 2B is typically a high OBP position, so there may be additional options that could fit in there
Personally I would trade something like Hill/Stewart for Rasmus. I think Hill will rebound but the Jays need a lineup makeover with some better OBP guys. Not sure the Cards would go for that though.
I would be absolutely thrilled if Jays can land Rasmus. Seriously, we need a player like him especially at center field. Im not a fan of Wells at CF and hes lost tons of range since his gold glove days and should be moved to RF until Gose or Marisnick are ready.
I wonder if AA will think about dealing Hech? I wouldnt mind trading Bautista, Stewart, Marcum, Zep, Jenkins, Thames, Marisnick… pretty much any prospect except for Drabek and Perez.
Would be pretty sweet if AA can somehow land him.
you know what? all this speculation is going nowhere
we all know AA is gonna pull of a genius move and get Rasmus for practically nothing
AA is a genius. But he pulled off the Morrow and Escobar trades when few others were going after those guys. EVERY team in the league is gonna go after Rasmus. Bit different.
Teams will back off once they say the price is too high.
And a lot of big market teams are sort of set where they are at and teams like Boston, Yankees won`t give up their best prospects to get Rasmus. They will just dip into the free agency pool.
I think it might be better for Jays to get him before guys like Crawford and Werth get signed. Once they get signed, teams will look for trade options and Rasmus would be quite an attractive option depending on the price.
I hope he’s traded. If it’s any team, my list would be
1.) Braves
2.) Blue Jays
The Braves don’t have a good outfield right now, but they have the best possible guy to start building a great oufield with. Addig Rasmus to that, it would be beast. Besides the Braves can give up pitching and still have great pitching in the organization overall.
The Blue Jays are also another good fit. But unlike the Braves, their farm would have to fall of considerably more than the Braves would if they got him.
Rasmus and Heyward?
Come on man, that`s not fair
It’s not, and that’s what’s beautiful about it.
what would the Brave’s have to give for Rasmus? do you know?
It would have to be pitching from the Braves. I don’t know how much, but that’s the package they’d be able to build.
Ask for Teheran, and I tell you, Frank Wren won’t laugh off the phone, but if I were him I’d say no.
Randall Delgado and Arodys Vizcaino for Colby Rasmus
OR
Jair Jurrjens for Colby Rasmus
That last proposal would probably hurt the Braves since they don’t have much pitching depth that’s ready right now, especially since Kris Medlen is out for the next year.
Teheran won’t be going anywhere. We’re going to be hard-pressed to give up Delgado too, but we’ve got tons of quality arms in the organization like Hoover that are getting overshadowed by our “big three” pitching prospects. We’ve got arms that would be top-five or top-ten in a lot of systems that Braves fans overlook because we’ve got so damn many good pitching prospects.
Definetly. Teheran should also be cracking Top 15 prospects list. There is ver good pitching in Atlant and Teheran is right in the middle of it.
Rotation of:
Tommy Hanson
Julio Teheran
Mike Minor
Jair Jurrjens(if not traded)
Randall Delgado(if not traded)
And tons of pitching depth before that it sounds like the Braves are gonna go back to dominate the NL East again in the future.
Definetly. Teheran should also be cracking Top 15 prospects list. There is ver good pitching in Atlant and Teheran is right in the middle of it.
Rotation of:
Tommy Hanson
Julio Teheran
Mike Minor
Jair Jurrjens(if not traded)
Randall Delgado(if not traded)
And tons of pitching depth before that it sounds like the Braves are gonna go back to dominate the NL East again in the future.
Pitching. We’ve got plenty of arms sitting in the minors and there’s a school of thought amongst Braves fans (myself included) that thinks Jurrjens will be gone this offseason.
Better watch out on the arms, last time the Braves and Cardinals traded, it was JD Drew for Ray King and a minor leaguer name Adam Weinwright. Where is Drew now? Not a Brave and Weinwright been to the World Series 1 so far.
Better watch out on the arms, last time the Braves and Cardinals traded, it was JD Drew for Ray King and a minor leaguer name Adam Weinwright. Where is Drew now? Not a Brave and Weinwright been to the World Series 1 so far.
As much as I would like Toronto to succeed, and trust me I do, I want to see ATL rise up even more. The Phillies have been the powerhouse of that cake division for years, and no disrispect to the Phils, but I want Atlanta to just be the dominant team in that division(along with competition from Florida and the Nats).
But I would still be happy to see Toronto get Rasmus though.
The thing with trading Rasmus, I imagine, is that the Cardinals wouldn’t be interested much in a load of prospects. The Cardinals are in “win-now” mode, and need major league talent back. For the Jays, I think that means you probably need to deal away one of the four main starters – maybe Marcum or Cecil – and then perhaps match up the value with a prospect like a d’Arnaud or whatnot. Maybe Aaron Hill could fill that role of the established player, but that’s probably more of a risk for the Cards to take.
Would definitely be fascinating to see the Jays and Braves go after Rasmus, in the sense that they’re both pretty similar systems – lots of pitching, not much high upside offense. It might turn into a good old fashion bidding war.
Toronto has good pitching, but Atlanta has the superior system pitching wise IMO. That’s a huge reason why Atlanta has a Top Ten Farm.
I’m biased, but I don’t think there’s a system in baseball that can match our pitching depth.
If you go all the way down I think the Pirates and Royals can say a few things about that.
Maybe, but it’s tough to top Teheran, Delgado, and Vizcaino, with guys like JJ Hoover and Zeke Spruill right behind them. Then we’ve guys like Medlen and now Beachy that fly under the radar the whole time that make an impact in the Majors. The Braves are up there, that’s for sure.
The Royals have a ton of pitching depth. But who cares, both Atlanta and KC define the term “You can never have too much pitching”.
My Blue Jays proposal: D’Arnaud, Stewart and Goose
That’s three B-B+ guys. Not bad at all. I’m nearly 100% positive Drabek will NOT be moved under any circumstance.
Braves: Vizcaino, Prado and Dunn.
Two major league guys and one high upside player. I’d personally take this package over the Jays. It might even be a little too much.
Drabek has to be on the table if we’re talking about Rasmus.
Besides, the Jays have a surplus there. Stewart is now talked about as being in Drabek’s class, and you’ll also have Rzep and Litsch in the mix for that fifth starter spot. On top of that, analysts are unanimous in saying that the Jays had a very good haul of high-upside pitchers in the 2010 draft.
I think Drabek and one of the Jays’ outstanding catching prospects (eg D’Arnaud) would be a good place to start.
If Stewart is being talked about as being in Drabek’s class, doesn’t it seem like an oxymoron to say that Drabek has to be the one on the table if they’re on the same level?
If Stewart is being talked about as being in Drabek’s class, doesn’t it seem like an oxymoron to say that Drabek has to be the one on the table if they’re on the same level?
no chance drabek is moved. .
That would turn Halladay into Rasmus and Gose.
Here’s a question, who says no to this trade Shelby Miller and Colby Rasmus for Jason Heyward
You can’t really market a guy as the future of the franchise for a full year then trade him after he comes in 1st or 2nd for ROY.
absolutely not.
Nope, Cardinals would never do that.
You mean Braves? Sorry no disrispect to Colby, very good young player with tons of potential, but I’d rather build around the J-Hey kid
You don’t seem to value Shelby Miller much then. Considering he’s a perennial top 50 prospect in his first year in the majors, and his obscenely good peripherals, culminated into the team’s #1 prospect. There’s no way he gets traded for a minor upgrade (No disrespect to Heyward, but Rasmus will keep up with him at least).
How about Matt Kemp for Cody Rasmus? Dodgers get rid of their headcase, and the Cards do the same. Maybe a change of environment would help each guy?
Dodgers need to add in a lot more. Also, Kemp is a corner outfielder (and by this I mean he SHOULD be), so that leaves the Cards with a hole in center.
Might be a hole in center, unless you move Schumarker back to center and get a 2nd baseman, like Aaron Hill or Kelly Johnson.
HELL NO! were trying to get put skip in more of a utility role and NOT starting everyday. no way do i wanna see schu’ as the starting CF’er.
He is a lot better centerfielder then he is at 2nd. Atleast his speed, or what is left is good enough to cover and he been a good lead-off hitter, if LaRussa leaves him alone. The one who needs to leave is Ryan. Great defender, but no offense. This is not the ’80s with Ozzie, there is no other speed in the lineup.
Skip is useless. He isn’t a good leadoff hitter at all, he isn’t a corner outfielder because he doesn’t have any assets to his game. He doens’t hit for power and doesn’t compensate for it with plus speed. he is what he is. A replacement level player.
HELL NO! were trying to get put skip in more of a utility role and NOT starting everyday. no way do i wanna see schu’ as the starting CF’er.
You Blue Jays fans are insane. I suggest watching a few Cards games on MLB.TV in the archives to properly gauge where Colby is talent wise. Those trades most, if not all of you, came up with were laughable.
Now, it is time for LaRussa to go. No doubt about it. Yes he has the third most wins as a manager all time, he’s also been managing since 1978 and has had the luxury of coaching such greats as Dave Wilfield, Albert Pujols, Dennis Eckersley, Ozzie Smith, Jim Edmonds, Scott Rolen, Larry Walker, Rickey Henderson, etc. I’d much rather have Rasmus for 7 years than LaRussa for one or two. He leaves his “guys” in way too long, over manages constantly, and whines to management if he can’t do his job (MANAGING the team). He’s not the worst manager in MLB, but he certainly is past his swan song and its time to go for him and the St. Louis Cardinals.
Now, if Rasmus was to go. It would be pointless for the Braves to trade Heyward for Rasmus because ideally they are the same type of player. Rasmus a little better on the base paths, Heyward better plate discipline. I would love to get Craig Kimbrel so we can say adios to Franklin. He’s done a pretty good job. But he always seems to blow the must win games more times than not, and saves the ones or performs well against bad teams or when the game is already at hand. Just Kimbrel is not enough though. So let’s see some of those SP in the minors come on over. Maybe even Mike Minor or Tommy Hanson.
How is a package of Marcum, Stewart and D’Arnaud laughable compared to Mike Minor and Craig Kimbrel? The Blue Jays package is far superior there. I suggest you watch Blue Jays games or do some research to figure out who these guys are before you run your mouth.
you’re silly
Beachy, Vizcaino, Kimbrel for Rasmus? Beachy was a late call up and pitched well, vizcaino was a top pitching prospect for the yanks when we acquired him in the the jv trade, and kimbrel is gonna be a good closer for someone, but we got venters who might nail that one down…
thats a fair return. although their all pitchers. i would probably do this trade if offered.
I wouldn’t be too quick to give up Kimbrel. It’s better to have two good pitchers than one, and both of them can set-up and close.
COUNTEROFFER- Randall Delgado and Arodys Vizcaino.
This thread is the perfect concoction to generate a ridiculous number of MLBTR posts (rapidly approaching the 200-post milestone). You’ve got a trade rumor involving a recent Baseball America Top 10 prospect coming off a good but not great season, the always polarizing Tony LaRussa, and either the Toronto Blue Jays or the highly-coveted top prospects of the Atlanta farm system. I’m betting this thread goes past the 300-post mark easy.
A perfect storm!
When Halladay got traded there was over 2000 comments on that thread. Pretty intense.
This makes me toss and turn at night… We’re thinking about trading a future All-Star because our manager has a problem with him… I like LaRussa but I just think it’s time for him to go. Rasmus is a stud.
This would fit with AA’s recent comments that he’s “ready to trade prospects”, which seemed a little out of the blue.
What kind of players would the Cards be looking for? The Jays aren’t short of prospects if this Pujols contract means STL is in bean-counting mode.
They have said repeatedly that they are in “win-now” mode, as the MLB team is aging, and they want to “prove to Pujols” that they will be competitive so that he’ll re-sign. They are in a very difficult situation, because they are at their limit budget-wise, but have some clear needs:
SP- after Wainright, Carpenter and Garcia, they’ve been cobbling together starters for the last 2-3 years.
2B/3B- Schumaker and Freese both in the lineup can be damaging.
OF- If they trade Rasmus, there will be a sizeable gap to fill, and not much available on the FA market.
If prospects are involved, they would need to be major league ready (Drabek, Stewart) But I think that if the Jays want to get this done, they would likely need to send Aaron Hill’s team friendly deal, plus Stewart OR Drabek, and likely someone further down in the minors to complete a deal.
STL won’t be forced to trade him, so the price will be painfully high.
No trade will ever be painful again after the Halladay saga.
Are you sure the Cards would be interested in Hill, though? It is a team-friendly contract in a sense, but it’s still an extra 8 figures to the annual payroll.
I was only looking at need/timeframe to compete. The Jays could offer to add cash if salary is that tight…
The deal would have to start with either Hill or Bautista (Or like I mentioned earlier, Wells and a boatload of cash) plus MLB ready prospect (Drabek/Stwert) and potentially a Major League ready filler (Mills, Shawn Hill, Rzep, Emaus?)
The Jays could definately put a package together, they have players available that would fill needs. It really depends on STLs willingness to move Rasmus, and what they are able to find in free agency…
If Hill returns to his old self + Stewart/Drabek + Mills/Zep/Eamus for Rasmus is quite a horrible deal for Jays. Unless you take out Stewart or Drabek and substitute for someone like Jenkins, I would not take that deal.
I’m pretty sure you’d have to go with Stewart since Drabek has more notoriety, and is younger by 2-3 years. They can take Mills if they want, so far he’s just Tallet V2.0.
2-3 years? Drabek is 22 and Stewart is 23 I think.
I’m just saying I wouldn’t give up Hill who is likely to bounce back, I mean seriously, he had a BABIP under .200 + Stewart/Drabek who are our top prospects and both are big league ready.
I don’t care much about Mills/Zep or Eamus though.
I do stand corrected, there is only a difference of 1 year in age, though Drabek is 23 and Stewart is 24.
Giving up on Hill for one down year is idiotic as you said. Dropping from a 4 WAR player in 2009 to 1 WAR in 2010 is a pretty significant drop, and it doesn’t help when your BABIP is 100 points below your career average for a full season.
It’s not “giving up” on Hill. But you have to give something to get something, and Hill is a player that the Cards could use, especially if he bounces back
It sounds like Jays and Cards might end up having a deal. AA is not afraid to trade quality to get a key position player.
I do stand corrected, there is only a difference of 1 year in age, though Drabek is 23 and Stewart is 24.
Giving up on Hill for one down year is idiotic as you said. Dropping from a 4 WAR player in 2009 to 1 WAR in 2010 is a pretty significant drop, and it doesn’t help when your BABIP is 100 points below your career average for a full season.
2-3 years? Drabek is 22 and Stewart is 23 I think.
I’m just saying I wouldn’t give up Hill who is likely to bounce back, I mean seriously, he had a BABIP under .200 + Stewart/Drabek who are our top prospects and both are big league ready.
I don’t care much about Mills/Zep or Eamus though.
If Hill returns to his old self + Stewart/Drabek + Mills/Zep/Eamus for Rasmus is quite a horrible deal for Jays. Unless you take out Stewart or Drabek and substitute for someone like Jenkins, I would not take that deal.
I’ve seen alot of people stating the Jays should trade Marcum as part of a Rasmus deal. I say no. The rotation is the strength for the team. Keep it together at least 1 more year. Yes Marcum may have reached his peak but he’s solid and no minor leaguer is ready to step into his rotation spot and no free agent within the Jays budget will out perform him.
I like someone’s idea about trading Bautista, essentially selling high. Given the Cards’ offensive concerns and need at 3b, I think they’d have to at least look at the idea. Trade him, one of Toronto’s catcher and any minor league pitcher other than Stewart.
Agreed. He is sorely underrated. As soon as there’s any trade talk, you see Marcum’s name casually tossed in there. If the Jays are intending to contend over the next five years, then I’d be looking to sign Marcum to a long-term contract at this point. A proven bulldog-leader who can hold his own with the no.1s in the AL East.
I think that the problem with Marcum is that he’s reached his peak. Romero will likely be the ace next year, and Morrow has more raw talent than anyone on the staff. Cecil had more wins than Marcum too, so, from an objective (i.e. removing intangibles) perspective, Marcum is, at best, 4th on the depth chart. Drabek could pass him by mid-season, and if Stewart is as good as the hype, then Marcum is out of a job with the Jays by 2011.
Don’t get me wrong, he is a VERY good pitcher, but he has (or will) become a victim of the Jays depth at Starting Pitcher. Also, his 13 wins could be patched together by some combination of SHill and Rzep.
He has a ton of value now that his health is proven, so I think those are the reasons that his name comes up in trade talks so often
I don’t think that there is a real danger of Marcum becoming a victim of the Jays’ depth of pitching.
We talk a lot about the upside of Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek, Stewart and co., but Marcum is a proven commodity, and you’d have to question whether any of the other pitchers could ultimately produce significantly better statistics than him.
And although he has peaked, there’s no reason that he cannot maintain that peak for years to come given his relative youth and economical pitching style.
Cecil has won 15 games at age 23. He may end up being the ace of the staff. I still remember Maddon asking “who is this guy” after his first win in Tampa. His record against AL East was impressive.
Must add…it is hard to do a young stud for a young stud deal. Ultimatey, the other team has to have the same problems with their young stud to want to trade him.
You might be dreaming as much as the Jays fans.
I think the braves have an abundance of pitching talent to trade without hurting the farm, and if need be im sure they could throw in one or two young OF prospects especially if they are getting a young player to add to a younger lineup for a new manager….If the braves want him I believe they can get him…
I think the braves have an abundance of pitching talent to trade without hurting the farm, and if need be im sure they could throw in one or two young OF prospects especially if they are getting a young player to add to a younger lineup for a new manager….If the braves want him I believe they can get him…
A D-backs outfield of Rasmus/Young/Upton. ::shudders:: That would be awesome.
Getting Rasmus, however, is a different story. I doubt Jarrod Parker gets put in this deal since he’s coming off of TJ and his value is so uncertain, and having just acquired Skaggs, I doubt we deal him again.
Pick your package of three from the ’09 draft I suppose: Borchering, Pollock (unlikely due to the injury), Davidson, Owings, Belfiore, Corbin, Krauss, Smith, Goldschmidt, Anderson, Allen, & Brewer. Possibly Brandon Allen, but STL has that Poo-Holes guy at first base who’s apparently supposed to be kinda decent.
I could definitely see one of the two third-basemen dealt (Borchering & Davidson), as well as one of Krauss & Goldschmidt (hopefully Krauss). Oh, and hopefully Gerardo Parra. I hate that guy. Maybe STL sees something in him and will actually consider him to be a valuable addition within this deal… because I wouldn’t.
I came up with a creative three-way trade proposal, as an attempt to try and find the Cardinals some big-league talent of need that would move them to be more willing to deal Rasmus. It’s not perfect, but in a general sense:
To Blue Jays: Colby Rasmus
To Cardinals: Chone Figgins (+ cash, from both teams, to pay a bunch of his deal), Zach Stewart and Fred Lewis (not a very valuable piece, but a big-league outfielder)
To Mariners: Mark Rzepczynski, Brad Emaus
Very interesting proposal.
Maybe a bit light on the mariners end. Maybe they get an STL prospect as well?
haha what? light on the mariners? zach stewart and chone figgins for rasmus? no thanks.
haha what? light on the mariners? zach stewart and chone figgins for rasmus? no thanks.
So we give up Zach Stewart and 3 fillers for Colby Rasmus? Dream a little bigger.
Not even close from the Cards standpoint.
How about you take out Stewart and Lewis and put in Bautista and Jenkins to Cards. Take out Eamus and Cards give a some low-level prospect to Mariners.
Cards would get a starting 3rd/2nd baseman and get a RF and 2009 1st rounder.
why would the cards want bautista, a possible 1 year 8 million dollar unknown. At this point the jays trading bautista would be selling low, and teams acquiring bautista would be a huge risk..
If bautista hit 30 hr’s in 2008, 2009 would you consider trading him? prob not, if anything it would take rasmus plus prospects to land him. any deal involving bautista not at full value isn’t worth it. Its better to wait and see then to possibly get ripped off badly.
How about you take out Stewart and Lewis and put in Bautista and Jenkins to Cards. Take out Eamus and Cards give a some low-level prospect to Mariners.
Cards would get a starting 3rd/2nd baseman and get a RF and 2009 1st rounder.
I think Cecil fits best because he’s proven and the Cardinals want to win now, but he’s also relatively cheap, so it allows them to afford Holliday and Albert. Although we would have to add a couple of ready or near-ready players (perhaps Thames, Emaus, one of our good relief prospects)
Bautista might work although the Cardinals would also want $ and other pieces (see above) – keeping in mind that Bautista would have a shot at giving them two draft picks when he becomes a FA. It would hurt to see Jose go and casual fans would be very upset, but it would help in the long term….since I don’t think the Jays are going to start compete till 2013 anyways (and Bautista will be 33 at that point)
AA wouldn’t trade Hill right now because he’s not the type to sell low.
Unlike other Jays fans I’d open to trading Snider (+ pieces) for Rasmus – I would always rather have a CF than LF.
I’d be willing to give up Marcum just because he’s about to get expensive anyways and I would like to have room in the rotation for all of our up and coming young guys (although his leadership would be missed)
I don’t think I would be willing to trade Drabek or Hech. I also don’t think the cardinals have any interest in our single A prospects right now (since they want to show Albert that they are trying to win now).
If the Jays brought in a 3rd team with an overpaid player, and offered to throw in cash (ie Figgins which someone on here already suggested) that could help with any offer.
Lastly, if none of these packages works because the Braves and other teams drive the price too high than I would rather buy low on Cameron Maybin (who although even less proven probably has as much upside – although a bigger chance to be a bust)
Snider+ for Rasmus? No thanks. Yes, Rasmus is a CF. But I think Snider has more power and he’s two years younger.
Lol pretty much.
He has pretty much been labeled as “The Franchise” or “Moonraker”. Whichever one you like better.
And if we’re adding a core piece, I would rather not trade our own young core piece to do so.
snider’s untouchable. plain and simple. The guys a stud, you don’t trade core players, you build around them.
Ok stop w/ the T. Snider trades, I’m pretty sure even AA deems him untouchable. Jeez
why is Travis Snider, a highly touted prospect coming out of the draft and in the farm system, labeled untouchable, but Rasmus, who was also a highly touted prospect coming out of the draft and in the farm system, can be just traded for a handful of AAA/AA guys?
Because Pujols and LaRussa want him gone. Also a handful of minor-leaguers isn’t bad depending on the guys. Roy Halladay, you know the best pitcher in the last decade who’s for some reason is wearing a STL cap in your pic, was traded for a handful of AAA/AA guys.
Regardless of what Colby says, I still think he wants out of there because he hates TLR. I don’t blame him
ok, prove it.
you can’t. its just speculations. i can just as easily say they got over it and are routinely have tea parties every friday with Ozzie Smith.
AA isnt too tied to Marcum, he prefers power pitchers. That doesnt mean that he will sell low but i think he will get traded at some point.
I would offer Marcum, lewis and b list prospect.
TBH, I think Lewis bring negative value to the trade… why would they want Lewis… they just traded a potentially all-star CF for many years to come and Lewis going to fill-in for them? Don’t think so. It would have to be Marcum (who I really really like), A & B prospect at least, throw in lewis for the lols. I don’t even think Rasmus will be traded. It would just being a huge mistake by the cards FO
Even still, I think they would really want an OFer in return for Rasmus. Rasmus gone in the Cards OF would leave a pretty big void in their lineup. BUT I would absolutely love it if AA somehow pulled of a trade for Rasmus…. *drools
Marcum – Cards aren’t in the market for top of the rotation starters
Lewis – is anybody more unappealing? I have a hard time seeing Mozeliak saying “Well, if you give me Lewis than you’ve got yourself a deal!”
B-list prospect – if the cards want prospects in return they will get A-list prospects
Marcum – “Cards aren’t in the market for top of the rotation starters ”
LOL what? What team isn’t in the market for top of the rotation starters? Dumb post.
a team with much bigger needs and that already has 3 top of the rotation starters?
NOBODY wants Fred Lewis. Seriously, the guy is trash.
Rasmus might put the Jays over the top and seriously duke it out with the Yanks and Rays next year for the divison crown.
As if the dogfight with Tampa Bay wasn’t enough! This would be very exciting, and nervewracking for me.
I think the Toronto fans who want to leave AL East are crazy. It’s great watching Yanks, Rays, and BoSox.
While he would be a nice addition, the jays still have too many question marks with the big boys, especially with a possible clean sweep of the coaching staff. you might see a regression from the pitching staff with walton gone (especially morrow) and you will definetely see some batters struggle, well is due for a down year, i doubt hill ever hits over .260 again. I think they’ll probably win less games next year then this year, even with acquiring rasmus.
RE: Selling low on Hill:
As with the stock market, all GMs are looking for a great “buy low” candidate. Since Hill has a track record of success, he IS going to be targeted, whether by the Cards, or others. Worst case, he’s a good defender capable of playing multiple positions. Best case, he hist .290 with 20-25 HRs.
The real trick is to highlight that value and bring his value up, while still playing rope-a-dope with other GMs, trying to convince them that they are buying a player at their lowest possible value.
It’s all a game, but I wouldn’t think that Anthopoulos would have to “give” Hill away.
Does anyone in Canada know that the Cardinals are committed to Yadier Molina?
I do. And I think that most Jays fans are aware of the Molina family (Yadier is the only one not to play for the Jays… Yet?)
Although: Catcher is a high wear-and-tear position, having a prospect available to fill in would presumably add value to the Cards. (D’arnaud is at least 2 years from the bigs)
Here’s the thing though, If Rasmus is traded the Cardinals HAVE to get Major League talent back. First base and catcher are the 2 things that they don’t need now or anytime soon. Any offer will have to include a big time major league outfielder or third baseman. Aaron Hill, Adam Lind, Jose Bautista are not going to fit the bill. Bautista would if he had more of a track record, but I think most people think he will turn back into a pumpkin relatively quickly. The Jays aren’t going to pay Vernon Wells entire salary for him to play for the Cardinals and the Cardinals wouldn’t consider paying even half of it. If the Cardinals were rebuilding then maybe you could get away with giving them a handful of “maybes”, but they aren’t. They are a perrenial powerhouse and not about to trade one of their top players with an eye toward the future. Especially if La Russa comes back.
“They are a perrenial powerhouse”
Like this year?
“and not about to trade one of their top players with an eye toward the future. Especially if La Russa comes back.”
Especially IF he comes back? Don’t you mean if he doesn’t? If La Russa is back, say bye bye to Colby.
No….i meant if he does come back. LaRussa isn’t going to come back to a team with no CF, no 2B, no SS, no 3B. If LaRussa comes back its with full commitment from upper management to put together a world series caliber team.
Considering that Rasmus has already been denied on 2 trade requests with Tony around, what makes you think that Mozeliak gives a damn if Tony is here or not?
“Like this year?” – um yeah, like this year. they finished with 86 wins and by ALL accounts should have easily walked away with the division. Their inability to find competant infielders and injuries to their 4th and 5th starters doomed them. Do you think the Reds finish 5 games up without Brad Penny, Kyle Lohse, Ryan Ludwick, Colby Rasmus, and David Freese all being hurt for significant periods of time? Injuries happen, its part of the game – just sometimes they cost you a playoff run. No biggie. They’ll be back in the hunt next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that….
we had 85 wins.
we finished 4th
we had 85 wins.
we finished 4th
depending on the health of peavy you could see kenny offer mark buehrle(he would lift his no trade to pitch for his home town team) and posibly carlos quentin to the cards, buehrle gives the cards a nother front line starter top match up after wainwright and carpenter and carlos offers power production and protection for holliday and albert…plus a switch to the NL could help him…..with peavy-danks-floyd-jackson under contract next season buehrle is expendable mainly because chris sale has come out of no where to show he can pitch at this level and will be given a shot at making the roation….worse comes to worse. freddy is resigned……colby could play center or right for the sox possibly moving alex to right(doubtful) and he is a left handed power bat that the sox need.
hell now that i think about it throw in jordan danks from the minors his D is superb and probably would get help from withing with mark and albert
Here are some names the Cardinals would actually consider:
David Wright
Ryan Zimmerman
Mike Stanton
Martin Prado + young pitchers
Andre Eithier
Stephen Drew & Chris Young
Nick Markakis
Delmon Young
Shin-Soo Choo
Do you have the ear of the GM? No.. that isn’t what the Cards would consider. It’s what YOU would. LOL @ Nick Markakis BTW.
No dude…I live in STL and have heard many interviews with Mozeliak where he specifically states that he would like to add “a couple of 15-20 homer guys” and get the infield cleaned up. He also states they would like to add a “5th starter”. In fact, i’m sure that most of this is actually covered right here on MLBTR. He states that the Cardinals top priorities are locking up Albert. He states that Colby will NOT be traded, however I would have to think that if he was going to trade him it would be for items off his wish list. Not a handful of Toronto’s #4-20 prospects. I will guarantee you right now that if Rasmus is traded you will see an All-Star headed back to STL….but thats okay..you jays fans go on and keep thinking you’ll land him with your #3 starter prospect, Fred Lewis and a catching prospect…you got any first baseman down in the minors that are going to step in for Albert when he retires 10 years from now?
No dude…I live in STL and have heard many interviews with Mozeliak where he specifically states that he would like to add “a couple of 15-20 homer guys” and get the infield cleaned up. He also states they would like to add a “5th starter”. In fact, i’m sure that most of this is actually covered right here on MLBTR. He states that the Cardinals top priorities are locking up Albert. He states that Colby will NOT be traded, however I would have to think that if he was going to trade him it would be for items off his wish list. Not a handful of Toronto’s #4-20 prospects. I will guarantee you right now that if Rasmus is traded you will see an All-Star headed back to STL….but thats okay..you jays fans go on and keep thinking you’ll land him with your #3 starter prospect, Fred Lewis and a catching prospect…you got any first baseman down in the minors that are going to step in for Albert when he retires 10 years from now?
I am a Jays fans and have to agree with your assessment except on Jose Bautista.
Prado has put up better numbers than Rasmus. The only way Prado will leave Atlanta for St. Louis, is if Wainwright is on his way back.
Rasmus is a CF’er, Prado plays the infield. Those two players aren’t even close in terms of value. Good luck on getting Waino back
Don’t ever type anything on here again.
Prado:
BABIP .335
WAR 3.9
WPA .92
Value $15.6
Rasmus:
BABIP .354
WAR 3.6
WPA .58
Value $14.3
Overall, I think Prado won. I won’t involve UZR/150 in this because of the position difference.
I’ll build my team around a 5 tool CFer and you build yours around a second basemen. We’ll see which one works out better. Also Rasmus is 3 years younger than Prado. Throw all the stats out you want. It doesn’t change the fact that Rasmus plays CF and Prado is a 2nd basemen.
I will bring out every stat, because Prado beats him in almost all of them.
how about the most important stats:money-team control-youth
money talks and we all know it.
how about the most important stats:money-team control-youth
money talks and we all know it.
I will bring out every stat, because Prado beats him in almost all of them.
Also, I put the only way Prado would be in a trade to St. Louis is for Wainwright, because I doubt Braves would trade for Pujols with all the Cardinals would want for him.
The Braves will never get Wainwright back, not for Prado, or anything else the Braves has, not even Hayward. Wainwright is a top ace, top CY candidate and a St. Louis favorite. Hayward is an outfielder that has no playoff experience and neither does Prado.
That’s why that “top ace, top Cy Young candidate, and a St. Louis favorite” is sitting at home right now, and not in the playoffs.
The Braves will never get Wainwright back, not for Prado, or anything else the Braves has, not even Hayward. Wainwright is a top ace, top CY candidate and a St. Louis favorite. Hayward is an outfielder that has no playoff experience and neither does Prado.
If Rasmus is such a great prospect why are you as a Cardnal fan wanting to get rid of him so badly?
Where did I ever say I wanted to get rid of Rasmus?
Rasmus is a CF’er, Prado plays the infield. Those two players aren’t even close in terms of value. Good luck on getting Waino back
lol at half the list especially wright, stanton and eithier… do you not get that if rasmus hits the market the Cards have low leverage, if they want him gone or he wants gone it means the deal needs to get done, no body is going to overpay when the cards are against the wall. You’re living in la la land body.
Prado+young pitcher for Rasmus…….what are you smoking …..no way the braves give prado and young pitcher ……Jair Jurggens for Rasmus is possible althought im not sure i aggree with that idea
Two packages:
1) Bobby Borchering, Gerardo Parra, Marc Krauss, and Patrick Corbin for Rasmus.
– Top 3B prospect, a fill-in CF, a quick-rising OF bat, and a quick-rising back-end starter to slot behind the bajillion top-line arms the Cards already have. If you want tools and CF defense over probability and questionable corner-OF defense, perhaps Keon Broxton instead of Krauss. D-backs become scary in 2011 if they can also add a few reliable ‘pen arms and bench bats.
2) Stephen Drew and Gerardo Parra for Rasmus.
– Cardinals win this massively in the short term, swapping Brendan Ryan’s awful bat for a 5 WAR SS, and get a fill-in CF. D-backs get the long-term value of having Rasmus through 2015.
I would love to see Rasmus in a Dback uniform, but I think the asking price is too much. Your #1 package looks like what it will take, but the last time the dbacks traded away the farm (Dan Haren for Carlos Gonzalez and others..) it didn’t end well.
As for #2, the dbacks have a good core, I wouldn’t want that broken up.
Also, Parra isn’t much of a CF, he’s an excellent defensive corner outfielder
To all the GM’s on this page trading for Colby Rasmus… I would not deal the outfielder for just prospects because I am looking to reduce salary (Kyle Lohse )with the Pujols contract upcoming, and I need additional offense to assist Holliday and Pujols. If you propose 2 prospects plus 2 everyday players (one pitcher and hitter), and take on 50% of the veteran hitters contract, (we will throw in a prospect) you’ve got a deal… what Veterans would you be willing to trade?
The Jays would be willing to give up veterans, and eat salary. Choose any of:
Wells
Bautista
A Hill
As for Pitchers:
Marcum
Cecil
and prospects: Stewart, D’Arnaud, Jenkins
Really, the deal can happen based on one player from each of those lists. The Jays are serious about getting high upside players, and can afford to eat as much salary as it takes to get rasmus (the more salary they eat though, the worse the prospects coming back would be)
why would the cards trade rasmus to the jays for a 1 year rental rf/3b?
The Jays would be willing to give up veterans, and eat salary. Choose any of:
Wells
Bautista
A Hill
As for Pitchers:
Marcum
Cecil
and prospects: Stewart, D’Arnaud, Jenkins
Really, the deal can happen based on one player from each of those lists. The Jays are serious about getting high upside players, and can afford to eat as much salary as it takes to get rasmus (the more salary they eat though, the worse the prospects coming back would be)
A package involving Marcum/D’Arnaud is the best hypothetical package I’ve seen for Rasmus. As if the Cardinals don’t need another consistent (Marcum has a history, both before and after surgery) front end starter with an ERA under 4… In the AL East.
your right, the don’t. Carpenter-wainwright-garcia-lohse is solid and all they need is a #5 type starter, not a guy that will cost a lot(in terms of talent) like marcum.
thanks for proving the point.
your right, the don’t. Carpenter-wainwright-garcia-lohse is solid and all they need is a #5 type starter, not a guy that will cost a lot(in terms of talent) like marcum.
thanks for proving the point.
Colby Rasmus isn’t going anywhere. Period.
I know his trade request would cause anyone to salivate, but Mozeliak knows he’s not going to get enough value to replace Rasmus, especially on a team that showed itself to be very thin offensively past Pujols and Holliday. Mozeliak knows they need Rasmus. This isn’t an aging, expensive veteran like Rolen that he can trade off for a Glaus. Rasmus is young and cheap on a team built around high-salary players. This is a big part of the future of the franchise. That’s why he told Rasmus he’s not going anywhere.
*If* he goes to the Jays, Snider would have to be included. If the Braves, someone like Teheran. I realize that’s not going to happen, that’s why Rasmus is staying put.
Colby Rasmus isn’t going anywhere. Period.
Fans said the same thing about Yunel Escobar [well, if they knew it was being discussed they would have said no]. You mess with the managers, you get the boot.
“Fans said the same thing about Yunel Escobar”
It was made easier by Escobar having a terrible 2010. In Cox’s last season, they just didn’t have the patience to wait for Escobar to turn it around and opted for Gonzalez, who was having a decent year.
In this case, Rasmus is clearly our third best hitter, that’s a big blow to the lineup unless we can replace him with someone as productive. If you look at the list of players as good or better at the plate in 2010, there isn’t really a match in terms of age, years of control, salary, defensive position… If you trade Rasmus, you have to downgrade the offense. I don’t see it happening on a club that needs both the money to lock up Pujols and the competitiveness he desires.
While it’s a valid point that it’s Cox’s last season, when you have player vs manager, manager wins 99% of the time. I’m not too familiar with Rasmus’ issues, but if he can’t deal with it quietly, Mozeliak will trade him.
It blows for Cards fans, but that’s how it goes in baseball some times.
Except, not really, TLR has a history of conflicting with his best players, and at this point in his managing career, is simply not who the Front Office will side with, considering the other guy is a 5 tool CF with sky-high potential.
Plus, it really is an insult when you are benched for Nick f^#% Stavinoha.
While it’s a valid point that it’s Cox’s last season, when you have player vs manager, manager wins 99% of the time. I’m not too familiar with Rasmus’ issues, but if he can’t deal with it quietly, Mozeliak will trade him.
It blows for Cards fans, but that’s how it goes in baseball some times.
“Fans said the same thing about Yunel Escobar”
It was made easier by Escobar having a terrible 2010. In Cox’s last season, they just didn’t have the patience to wait for Escobar to turn it around and opted for Gonzalez, who was having a decent year.
In this case, Rasmus is clearly our third best hitter, that’s a big blow to the lineup unless we can replace him with someone as productive. If you look at the list of players as good or better at the plate in 2010, there isn’t really a match in terms of age, years of control, salary, defensive position… If you trade Rasmus, you have to downgrade the offense. I don’t see it happening on a club that needs both the money to lock up Pujols and the competitiveness he desires.
Seriously Mark Buehrle, carlos Q+ Jordan Danks+ maybe one more prospect with kenny williams eating a good portion of buehrles deal. Granted I dont know that OF situation in the STL but carlos could play right or left(moving matt over) and would allow for a big power bat to help our matt and albert….Mark Buehrle has an expiring contract as is a very good pitcher, still capable of being a top of the rotation guy while having the stuff to pitch 200 innings…which is the perfect mix of what the cards need in a pitcher, an innings eater but is still a very good pitcher.
then Colby slides right into right field or center depending on if Rios is cool with moving over, and that solves a few problems for the sox, left handed hitting power, young, cheap and fast….its actually a good move for both teams, it allows both teams to compete
Good idea.
Jon Jay can move to center and Holliday can stay in left.
With that move, their outfield should be set for a while, so they don’t particularly need Jordan Danks. Instead, give them Dayan Viciedo, who still has plenty of time to develop and has proven himself in the major leagues, just needs to be more patient at the plate. But maybe they would be more interested in Brent Morel, who I really want to keep.
I’m not sure if they want Buehrle, he hasn’t been impressive this year and his contract expires after the 2011 season and he seems like he’s intending on retiring afterwards, so they would be interested in Gavin Floyd, the White Sox won’t give up John Danks
so…
Gavin Floyd(locked in a contract, Dayan Viciedo/Brent Morel, Sergio Santos, and a good A ball prospect, and the Sox have plenty of talent in Winston-Salem.
no way….brent morell is more than likely the starting 3rd next season, vicedio is the back up for PK if he does not get resigned and might be the starting DH next season…plus with albert there the cards have no need for vicedio and david freeze is the 3rdbasemen of the future for them so no real need for morell….i highly doubt gavin would be moved simply because of his team friendly contract for the next few years and the fact that he is very very consistant…..i mentioned buehrle because he would be a great fit in STL, and might not retire if he were able to resign with them because he lives there..also there is no way santos is moved either, he is cheap and amazing and probably the closer next season
I bet you Floyd will be moved this offseason, whether it’s for a catcher, a DH, or someone like Rasmus. A team Friendly contract would be just what the cardinals want. But Morel is such a good fielder that he can move to either SS or 2B without much problem, and that’s where the Cards have their biggest issue. Viciedo isn’t all that terrible at 3rd base just needs to lose weight. And Santos isn’t all that good. His numbers just make him look good. I think he has a WHIP around 1.50. No way he’s the closer next year. And remember, after this year Albert probably won’t be a cardinal.
Ok well again i doubt morell moves from the starting sox 3rd basemen simply because Vicedio was ok there and teahan was horrible there. Morell is the best option there if they resign konerko, The resign konerko then have him and vicedio split time at DH and 1st….if they dont resign konerko then you can still be like 98% positive morell will be at 3rd and vicedio will be at 1st with a FA or a trade getting the sox a DH….I do agree with him switching positions but i doubt it…a lot of scouts say he would be very good a 3rd, very good at short and great at 2nd…but still ozzie and kenny both agree (WEIRD) that this guy is going to be with the sox….I could see floyd involved in a deal to get colby but then i would look at it and say…floyd+jordan danks+ another mid level prospect or maybe two for colby…if no then ok….they could possibly flip floyd to get prince or someone else if even needed…it really all depends on what happens with konerko, and if they want to try to sign dunn(i would rather have colby than dunn)….as for santos he had an amazing start but then slipped down to pretty good as the season went on. but dont forget he has a +++fast ball a ++slider and a +change up in his first season as a pitcher….let alone his first season as a big league pitcher…santos isnt going anywhere simply so the sox have options at closer with him and thornton ad possibly resign putz……
AND THERE IS NO WAY THE CARDS LET ALBERT WALK!!!! if they did the GM would get fired in a second….He is the single best player in baseball for the last 40 years…and albert types hardly ever come along there is no way they dont resign him…yes if he makes it to FA teams will have to deal with him being offers arb(close to 15 mill) and lose draft picks(yes i know if its albert you do it with out thinking) but there are few teams that will be able to afford him and if he sticks to his word he will give STL a deal….i doubt anything happens he will be locked up by spring training
no way….brent morell is more than likely the starting 3rd next season, vicedio is the back up for PK if he does not get resigned and might be the starting DH next season…plus with albert there the cards have no need for vicedio and david freeze is the 3rdbasemen of the future for them so no real need for morell….i highly doubt gavin would be moved simply because of his team friendly contract for the next few years and the fact that he is very very consistant…..i mentioned buehrle because he would be a great fit in STL, and might not retire if he were able to resign with them because he lives there..also there is no way santos is moved either, he is cheap and amazing and probably the closer next season
Seriously Mark Buehrle, carlos Q+ Jordan Danks+ maybe one more prospect with kenny williams eating a good portion of buehrles deal. Granted I dont know that OF situation in the STL but carlos could play right or left(moving matt over) and would allow for a big power bat to help our matt and albert….Mark Buehrle has an expiring contract as is a very good pitcher, still capable of being a top of the rotation guy while having the stuff to pitch 200 innings…which is the perfect mix of what the cards need in a pitcher, an innings eater but is still a very good pitcher.
then Colby slides right into right field or center depending on if Rios is cool with moving over, and that solves a few problems for the sox, left handed hitting power, young, cheap and fast….its actually a good move for both teams, it allows both teams to compete
white sox
white sox
This is a dumb thread. Just because Joe Strauss blathers about teams wanting Rasmus (duh) doesn’t mean there’s actually a good chance of the Cards trading him. Mozeliak doesn’t want to trade Rasmus, so even while he may be peppered with offers, there’s no way he’s going to easily give up 4 years of a cost-controlled star center fielder.
And give me a break with the Marcum/Cecil ideas. Those guys, as pitchers, are not as valuable as Rasmus. And young pitchers are more vulnerable to injury. And the Cards need offense more than pitching, so why in the world would they give up their #5 hitter for lesser pitchers??? It’s crazy talk!
Cardinals have two question marks on the fourth and fifth starters. They have a very good offense, but it just fell flat in the last two or so months of the season. If Mozeliak was given a very good offer for Rasmus, he would be gone.
“Cardinals have two question marks on the fourth and fifth starters.”
So re-sign Westbrook. In a perfect world, Lohse’s salary wouldn’t matter, but he’s locked into a rotation spot, like it or not.
“They have a very good offense, but it just fell flat in the last two or so months of the season.”
Trading an .859 OPS at a premium position won’t help that.
“Cardinals have two question marks on the fourth and fifth starters.”
So re-sign Westbrook. In a perfect world, Lohse’s salary wouldn’t matter, but he’s locked into a rotation spot, like it or not.
“They have a very good offense, but it just fell flat in the last two or so months of the season.”
Trading an .859 OPS at a premium position won’t help that.
Marcum would probably post near 3 ERA at a non-HR ballpark (i.e. Busch Stadium)
and remember how the Jays are in the AL East? both Marcum and Cecil will benefit from pitching against the Brewers, Astros, Cubs, and the Pirates
i would benefit from pitching against the astros cubs and pirates
Marcum would probably post near 3 ERA at a non-HR ballpark (i.e. Busch Stadium)
and remember how the Jays are in the AL East? both Marcum and Cecil will benefit from pitching against the Brewers, Astros, Cubs, and the Pirates
Not as valuable?
WAR, the ultimate value reference disagrees with you:
Rasmus- 3.6
Marcum- 3.5
Cecil- 2.5
Considering that the pitchers in question face real 9-man offences, those numbers would be much higher in the NL Central.
maybe you should take some time to learn about teams outside of your division
“maybe you should take some time to learn about teams outside of your division ”
This would make sense if the Cardinals problem was PITCHING, which it isn’t. Behind Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus, the offense is absolutely abysmal. Trading for offense would result in many more wins rather than beefing up your 4th spot in the rotation….
Not as valuable?
WAR, the ultimate value reference disagrees with you:
Rasmus- 3.6
Marcum- 3.5
Cecil- 2.5
Considering that the pitchers in question face real 9-man offences, those numbers would be much higher in the NL Central.
maybe you should take some time to learn about teams outside of your division
This is a dumb thread. Just because Joe Strauss blathers about teams wanting Rasmus (duh) doesn’t mean there’s actually a good chance of the Cards trading him. Mozeliak doesn’t want to trade Rasmus, so even while he may be peppered with offers, there’s no way he’s going to easily give up 4 years of a cost-controlled star center fielder.
And give me a break with the Marcum/Cecil ideas. Those guys, as pitchers, are not as valuable as Rasmus. And young pitchers are more vulnerable to injury. And the Cards need offense more than pitching, so why in the world would they give up their #5 hitter for lesser pitchers??? It’s crazy talk!
Cardinal fans are completely unrealistic about his trade value. Rasmus is a slightly above average fielding 24 yo CF whose best season has been worth under 4 WAR. For this year he’s been the 11th best in terms of WAR at his position.That said he could still have a breakout year and easily be one of the top 3 or 4 at his position for the next 5 years. If the Cardinals think he’s going to put up 5.5 WAR a year, and value him at that for that period it’s hard to see anyone biting at that price, when he’s yet to reach 3/4s of that. I honestly feel the most they’ll be able to get at the moment is a #2 starter and a B+ prospect. His value will probably go up and I personally can’t see them shipping him out if they feel he’ll reach his peak.
He’s only 24 years old and when the typical prime years of a player starts at the age of 28, he’s got lots of time to build on his 5-tools. He has a boat load of talent and can easily become one of the top 3 CF in the game.
I’d say Cards fans are judging Rasmus more or less correctly.
4WAR for a 24 year old? with 4 years of team service and hasn’t even hit arbitration yet? no, i’m pretty sure i’d rather keep him than trade him for some of these proposals.
I agree. I’d rather have him too. I’m just not sure other GMs will value him at more than that at this moment, because I feel he hasn’t built enough value at the majors yet, and he’s not young enough to be considered a top prospect anymore. I just think that if he’s about to break out then I can’t see a deal in which the cards get a fair deal if they trade him now.
how much freaking value is a guy who has been in the league for 2 hectic years with erratic playing time and poor managing suppose to build?
He’s averaged 3.6 PA / G in just under 300 games in his 2 years. He could probably have played 10 more games both years but it’s not like he’s never in the lineup.
you must not watch many cardinal games. some of the stuff TLR does drives you absolutely CRAZY. i can make a list if you want me to or we can simply agree with the obvious statement that TLR has mismanaged colby and somewhat retarded his development in the majors, and still posted a 3.6WAR season at 23/24years old at a prime position.
Everything here is pretty much the case.
He’s averaged 3.6 PA / G in just under 300 games in his 2 years. He could probably have played 10 more games both years but it’s not like he’s never in the lineup.
Cardinal fans are completely unrealistic about his trade value. Rasmus is a slightly above average fielding 24 yo CF whose best season has been worth under 4 WAR. For this year he’s been the 11th best in terms of WAR at his position.That said he could still have a breakout year and easily be one of the top 3 or 4 at his position for the next 5 years. If the Cardinals think he’s going to put up 5.5 WAR a year, and value him at that for that period it’s hard to see anyone biting at that price, when he’s yet to reach 3/4s of that. I honestly feel the most they’ll be able to get at the moment is a #2 starter and a B+ prospect. His value will probably go up and I personally can’t see them shipping him out if they feel he’ll reach his peak.
i love how some people are acting like Rasmus wasn’t an untouchable player either. he was a top 10 prospect and at 24years old(turned 24 in july), has put up a 4Win season while dealing with a multitude of problems on and off the field. he has 4 cost controlled seasons left and still one more before he hits arbitration. he is seen as an above average defender by several scouts and was touted as the best 5-tool player in any farmsystem back in 2008 and i think 2007 as well. its gonna take a lot more than what some people here are saying. i’m not gonna get into any arguments and start discussing names because that won’t do anything but piss more people off, all i’m saying is: shoot higher.
That’s a good point. When Rasmus was at the same stage of development as some of the prospects being put forth, he was as highly or more highly thought of. That he’s actually lived up to some of that hype and shown he can do it at this level is a transition very few manage to make. Trading him for a guy like Snider is basically going back to square one, when we were lucky Rasmus didn’t turn out like Anthony Reyes in the first place.
i love how some people are acting like Rasmus wasn’t an untouchable player either. he was a top 10 prospect and at 24years old(turned 24 in july), has put up a 4Win season while dealing with a multitude of problems on and off the field. he has 4 cost controlled seasons left and still one more before he hits arbitration. he is seen as an above average defender by several scouts and was touted as the best 5-tool player in any farmsystem back in 2008 and i think 2007 as well. its gonna take a lot more than what some people here are saying. i’m not gonna get into any arguments and start discussing names because that won’t do anything but piss more people off, all i’m saying is: shoot higher.
How about Rasmus to the M’s for Franklin Gutierrez and someone else?
Guti would be a .290/20/20 guy in the NL. He brings similar WAR to Rasmus. He costs about the same. He fills the CF void Rasmus leaves behind.
The M’s get offense, the Cardinals get defense and a more agreeable personality.
he doesn’t cost anywhere near the same, not sure where you get that from. Rasmus makes the league minimum right now(418k) and their is no, let me repeat, NO proof Guti would be a .290/20/20 man in the NL when he has hasn’t shown us anything to prove that 2009 wasn’t just a fluke. no way to this deal unless that someone else is someone REALLY worthwhile.
He might cost a little more now, but he’s locked up cheap and Rasmus will get more expensive soon.
Maybe I have no proof Guti will improve in the NL, but it sure seems everyone else does. So why wouldn’t Guti? American League pitchers and hitters get mysteriously better in the NL, for what can only be assumed as the NL kinda sucking compared to the AL. Plus Safeco is a tough place to hit for a right-hander like Guti.
Hard to call top drawer defense, speed, and legit 20 home run power a fluke. Maybe the average won’t come up around .300, but I would be highly surprised if it didn’t come up.
I think you’re selling Guti way short. He was a 5.9 WAR player in 2009. Lets see Rasmus ever, I repeat, EVER do that.
ok, lets see it. Are you denying he doesn’t have the talent to do that? In which case, your selling Rasmus short.
also, i looked up Gut’s stats, he was a better hitter in safeco than he was away. Take that for what you want, but to me, it shows that last year was more of an aberration.
I know people are going to say wahh it’s Keith Law but in his chat today he said that the Cards will ask for Kyle Drabek for Colby Rasmus.
and AA will say have a nice day. . I think at this point drabek has to be a untouchable, for skill and potential ofcourse, but also for sentimental reasons. hes what remains of the lost city of the doc. .
He will never be Doc, though. And I think it’s interesting that AA just recently said that Zach Stewart was as good as Drabek. I think AA will trade anyone on this team if it makes the team better. Even Snider. (Although like I said, for me- he’s untouchable.)
I want Colby to stay, but has anyone mentioned the Mets as a possibility? Beltran (Mets eat most of his salary), And Tejada could get it done. That is if beltran is healthy. Returning him to the NL central might be good. He always played good against us, What about with us?
Why would you want Beltran exactly?
the Card’s problem are the bats right?
would they be interested in Lind?
A player with no position in the NL….
well he could be a terrible LF
but i get what you’re saying
i believe they already have a .310/30/100 guy in leftfield named matt holliday.
i believe they already have a .310/30/100 guy in leftfield named matt holliday.
Doubt it…. I think they’d be most interested in keeping Rasmus and focus on improved communication between him and the manager (be it TLR or someone else). He’s just too valuable, and still progressing in the right direction, to trade away so easily. Remember how much money the Cards have tied up in Pujols and Holliday. They NEED strong, cheap offensive players around them to have any chance of competing without busting the budget over the next 5 years.
I just really think this is a rumor started by a St Louis Post Dispatch reporter with very little (or no) validity behind it.
Doubt it…. I think they’d be most interested in keeping Rasmus and focus on improved communication between him and the manager (be it TLR or someone else). He’s just too valuable, and still progressing in the right direction, to trade away so easily. Remember how much money the Cards have tied up in Pujols and Holliday. They NEED strong, cheap offensive players around them to have any chance of competing without busting the budget over the next 5 years.
I just really think this is a rumor started by a St Louis Post Dispatch reporter with very little (or no) validity behind it.
you’re probably right
but im gonna hope you’re wrong
you’re probably right
but im gonna hope you’re wrong
I wouldn’t really doubt what’s been written. Rasmus and La Russa have themselves indicated there was a falling out, and even Pujols had a pretty harsh response to the situation. In light of that, it makes sense that several teams are going to take their best shot, because this is essentially the only situation you’re ever going to have a shot at someone like Rasmus.
I wouldn’t really doubt what’s been written. Rasmus and La Russa have themselves indicated there was a falling out, and even Pujols had a pretty harsh response to the situation. In light of that, it makes sense that several teams are going to take their best shot, because this is essentially the only situation you’re ever going to have a shot at someone like Rasmus.