Unsurprisingly, there is still plenty of chatter going on about yesterday's Vernon Wells trade as well as the Rays' agreement of terms with both Manny Ramirez and Johnny Damon. Let's round up the latest…
- Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports hears from his sources that the Rays would not have taken one player without the other. It was either both Manny and Damon, or neither.
- Rosenthal wonders if Ramirez will be happy making just $2MM, and if the Blue Jays would have caved and sent even $20MM to the Angels in the Wells trade had they been asked to do so (Twitter link).
- The acquisition pushes the Angels' 2011 payroll up to about $145MM according to Mike DiGiovanna of The Los Angeles Times. He also notes that the team has about $29MM coming off the books after the season in the form of Fernando Rodney, Scott Kazmir, and Gary Matthews Jr.
- One long-time talent evaluator told ESPN's Buster Olney that the Blue Jays would have had to eat "at least $30 million" for the trade to make sense for the Angels (Insider req'd).
Manny probably wouldn’t be happy making “only” $2 mil if he stopped and thought about it, but there will probably be enough shiny things in Florida to distract him for one season. Having Damon to goof around with will actually probably help him not be a huge clubhouse distraction down in Tampa.
I think Manny is still getting money from the Sox and the Dodgers.
Not Boston, but yes to the Dodgers who deferred some of his last 45 million contract!
Acually the Red Sox pay Manny $1.94 million a year for the next 16 years.
thanks for the correction. Forgot about that!
So he’s really making more then 2M a year w/all the deferred money he gets. No wonder he wasn’t looking for a huge payday
whoops.
I can’t wait to see “The Cuttoff” part deux!!!
did the Blue jays eat any of Well’s salary, or did the Angels take on all of it??
Angels will pay all of it.
So thats been confirmed ? Everything i’ve found still seems kind of ambiguous.
It’s been confirmed.
What happened to the 5 mil. that the Jays were supposedly shipping the Angels’ way?
Vanished. As fast as Heyman’s credibility.
Heyman had credibility?
Exactly…
does this mean the angel are done?
How has the Angels’ GM NOT been fired yet?
Probably because the owner signed off on the deal perhaps?
But somehow the standard is different when it came to Omar Minaya and the Wilpons.
smh
Wells was a great guy, but this is an unreal move for the Blue Jays. I cannot believe AA managed to swing that. Wow.
AA is the man.
I can’t believe we are going to have to face wells 19 times a year. that’s 76 times over the life of his deal. the rangers need to start planning against him.
Wait what? Wells owns a career 738 OPS in Texas and a 607 one in LAAA. Where are you getting this “Wells destroys Texas” falsehood from?
Texas opened their season against Toronto last year and Vernon hit 350 with like 6 homers in a 3 game series, but yeah last year was the exception and not the norm. Also If I remember correctly, didn’t Ricky Romero have a no hitter into the 8th and ending up losing the game?
A 3 game series. Wow. What a big sample size.
You’re a big sample size…
I didnt say he kills us but if he does what he did opening series last year he could become the next vlad guerrero.
I’m still amazed that the Angels couldn’t get either Crawford or Beltre if they are willing to throw that kind of money around.
Isn’t that a fact regarding picking up all of Wells contract in the trade for napoli, not to mention taking Wells at all.
To quote actor Struther Williams in the original movie “True Grit”.. “Don’t saddle me with Your discards” and boy oh boy did the jays not only do that with Wells, but his entire salary as well.
I cant believe he got LSA to eat the whole contract lol thats it, im making a statue of AA out of my empty beer bottles
….and its gonna be HUGE!!!!
doesn’t Bobby Abreu also come off the books next year?
He has an option for 2012 that vests with a certain number of plate appearances. Seeing how he’ll probably be the full-time DH now, he’ll probably be paid that 9M for ’12
Toronto should erect a statue of AA for his ability to get Rios and Wells out of town with those behemoth contracts, and he even got players back in return. GM of the decade. When Theo had to get rid of Manny, we paid the dodgers the remainder of his salary and gave up players.
Speaking of Manny, if he did not like getting paid only $20 mil on his sox option, I gotta believe he is going to become quite testy come June, July.
Yeah, one of the things the AL East could count on was the threat in Toronto was tempered by the albatross contracts they held. AA has pretty much made it a whole new challenge. On the other side of things, Reagins is officially challenging for this years’ coveted Bill Bavarsi Wow What an Awful GM award.
With Minaya out of the running he’s a LOCK!
Minaya was never in the running.
Rios actually got claimed while JP Riccardi was still the head though.
But gotta love how AA deals.
le delete! next time read *all* the comments before responding!!!!
Look at this way- Vernon’s only on the books for 4 years instead of 7 for both Crawford/Werth. Both of those are relatively the same age as Well’s.
Sure its expensive move, but if they think Vernon is back to when he earned this contract he’ll be fine. I am shocked they are paying the whole salary though. Whats going to happen next– someone taking Zito’s remaining salary?
First of all, Vernon never EARNED his contract. There was no way he was going to. He was never a $21 million dollar a year guy and he never will be. He is a vastly inferior player to Carl Crawford and is receiving more money AAV than him. You can paint it anyway you want, the fact that the Jays got rid of the worst contract in all of baseball all the while getting an asset back in return (Napoli – whose career wOBA is higher than Wells mind you) is amazing. The sad thing, apart from the $86 million dollar elephant contract that the Angels took on is that they actually got worse in this trade. Vernon Wells doesn’t even offset the hit in performance they took when they substituted Mike Napoli (3 WAR/yr) for one of if not the worst offensive player in the Major Leagues in Jeff Mathis. LOL
Just for comparison’s sake.. Vernon Wells has 7 WAR in the past 4 years. Jason Werth and Carl Crawford both have 18.2. But hey, they only have him for 4 more years so what a deal! (FYI Crawford is 3 years younger).
wells isnt a 20 million dollar guy. hes just going to be paid that during the final 4 or 5 years of his contract. take a look at how much he was being paid in his early years of this same contract. it was a backloaded contract
What’s your point? Jays would have been on the hook for it if not for Reagins’ stupidity.
I don’t know if you watched a lot of Angels baseball, but the Jays would be better off starting John Buck at catcher.
You also don’t seem to know that the Angels have 3 catchers behind Napoli.
John Buck plays for the Marlins now… maybe you shouldnt speak if you havent done your research… Mathis sucks btw… worse than Napoli and the only way trading Napoli makes sense for the Angels is if they think Conger is ready…
You also don’t seem to know that none of them are nearly as good as Napoli. Also, John Buck is a Marlin. Great post though.
“First of all, Vernon never EARNED his contract. There was no way he was going to. He was never a $21 million dollar a year guy and he never will be.”
Actually he WAS a $21MM guy one year — 2006. His contract was signed that December. If you look at the contract itself, you can also see he was never expected to be worth that much; he was paid $500,000 (yes, that’s the right number of zeros) in his first year and $1.5MM in his second. It jumped to $12.5MM last year and jumps again to $23MM in ’12 before settling down to $21MM after that. It’s pretty much the definition of backloading a contract, and they did it big time.
I’m not trying to defend his contract, but I do understand what the Jays were thinking. The AAV on the contract is a little over $14MM, which might be a little high for him based on what we’ve seen in the last three years but probably felt like a much more safe bet when it was signed. If I remember right, JP felt like he was “going for it” around that time — something probably much more worthy of criticism. If anything, I would criticize the team more for paying ANYBODY what would amount to more than 25% of their payroll than specifically for overpaying Vernon Wells.
Vernon Wells career line: .280/.329/.475
Vernon Wells career in Angel Stadium: .226/.267/.340
Yeah, I’m just not seeing how the Angels even break even on this one.
The .226 line was against Angels pitching. Wonder how he’ll do hitting in Angel’s Stadium vs the rest of the league?
Making lame excuses for an awful deal I see! Crawford is a much better player than Wells has ever been and Wells is gonna decline Badly! Crawford is entering his prime years whereas Wells is past his already! Anyone justifying this trade is seriously brain damaged or an Angels fan reaching for straws!
LAA
Loosers to
Alex
Anthopolous
Is that how they spell losers in Canada? Even if they now have an extra $12 million to spend.. where are they going to spend it that every other team hasn’t already looked?
Try an extra $75 million. And before you reply with another ignorant crack on Canada, our dollars are at par with America’s. 🙂
You have 18.75 pure year to spend on average. Not 75 million right now. I personally see them pocketing the cash. Blue jays are going to attempt to sign the one year wonder in Bautista and make the same mistake.
stop getting mad at the fact jays made a good trade, the jays wont pocket the money, they arent the pirates for god sakes, they actually spend money when it makes sense, every team makes bad contracts, wells was one of them, hes a good player that jsut isnt worth what hes getting paid thats all, now the jays have a ton of flexibility roster and budget wise.Hopefuly the Angels do well and Wells rakes for you guys, but this was a great move for the Jays, and since fans dont pay the salaries it could work out well for the angels as well.
if you havent noticed AA is big into drafting and international signing, thats where the extra money will go
There’s no need to get personal and bring countries into the equation. This guy does not represent an entire country.
you’re just bitter because your team got fleeced.
and you wanna know how we spell losers in Canada?
“86 Million dollars over 4 years”
they could try to trade for one year of carlos beltran. he is owed 18 mil but 5 mil is deferred, so if the mets pay the deferred money, they can essentially replace wells with 1 year of beltran.
How do you go from stealing Dan Haren to trading away Mike Napoli for Vernon Wells and 86Million dollars owed?
Mike Napoli is old and totally ISO power dependent. They have Bobby Wilson and Hank Conger looking for his job this spring, he and Rivera had to come off the books. The Rangers deal for Beltre is just as risky.
I can’t wait to see Jeff Mathis and Bobby Wilson battle it out for worst offensive player in baseball. How will offensive minded Hank Conger get a job when Sciosca CLEARLY prefers defensive catchers who can’t hit their weight? BTW, Beltre last year had more WAR in ONE YEAR than Vernon has had the past FOUR. Try again. Oh and BTW, Mike Napoli is a better hitter than Vernon (career wOBA is higher) and he’s 3 years younger. So if Napoli is old, that makes Vernon a dinosaur. LOL
“Oh and BTW, Mike Napoli is a better hitter than Vernon (career wOBA is higher) and he’s 3 years younger.”
Your stupidity makes me laugh!
Vernon averages 60 more hits 15 more RBIs 20 more extra base hits 80 less strikeouts.
you’re running yourself into the ground with the ignorant comments you’re making – clearly you haven’t done your research.
At least Wells rakes when he plays in the Angels’ Stadium… oh wait, nevermind.
This is one of the worst deals, in a long time…
Doesn’t Angels pitching have more to do with his numbers at Angels Stadium?
Certainly, but you’d have to check the stats vs the same Angels pitching at Rogers Centre to be accurate, and I’m too lazy to do that!!!!
Well, his career average is 33 points higher vs. the Angels, at the Rogers Centre/Skydome, as opposed to Angel Stadium, although those are both small samples.
I’ve respected the Angels for a very long time but this Wells trade was so financial stupid. I mean even if he hits like last year for the next 4 years he will be ridiculously overpaid. So stupid!!!!!1
It’s not so much that they are spending money on Wells more than its they made a big deal out of they were never serious about Crawford then they give up players and spend close to the same yearly as what Crawford got (I know, less years but still) on a player that everyone would agree is inferior. It’s like the Phillies saying why bother signing Lee, we could always trade for Zito!
I missed out on the initial Wells dialogue here, but I remember Angels fans raving about how the Rangers overpaid for Beltre. Well, I wonder if they still feel like their team is a paragon of fiscal responsibility today? A couple of years ago when the Rangers couldn’t get past the Angels, I hated them…today, I feel sorry for them. They seem like a ship without a rudder all of a sudden…
Well Angels fans lost the right to mention overpaying when their team signed Gary Matthews Jr.
WOW Angels Fans…
Vernon Wells average WAR for the last three years: 1.8
Juan Rivera’s average WAR for the last three years: 1.1
Mike Napoli’s average WAR for the last three years: 2.7
This trade pushes the Angels’ 2011 payroll up to about $145MM according to Mike DiGiovanna of The Los Angeles Times. AND they only have approx $29M coming of the books after 2011 with Rodney, Kazmir and Matthews.
Angels just got older all while adding $86M over the next 4 years. Did I forget to mention Mathis’ negative WAR value over Napoli’s 3 year avg of 2.7?! The difference offensively running with Mathis over Napoli is like giving Mathis a piece of string cheeze to hit with in the batters box.
AMAZING!
OUTCH!
Gary Matthews? How about $18M/year for Hunter…WAY overpaid. Moreno is NOT making good financial decisions. And with a depleted farm system (except for Trout), the future for LAA is not looking to good, especially with the age of their current players and OF.
The Wells move was completely out of desperation. You take the 3 year average WAR of Wells/Mathis and then Rivera/Napoli and not only do the Angels lose an average of 2 WAR value in this deal, BUT they also just pushed their payroll for the next 4 years to ungodly levels.
This is looking more like a Bavasi type deal. As a Mariner Fan…we are “still” paying for his fricken bad contracts. But at least 2011 is the LAST year that we have to deal with a Bavasi contract on our books. The Z Man has been reestablishing our farm system, and getting into a position to prepare for 2012.
NO WAY Angel fans you will even touch Rangers and the A’s this year. Yet you will have a $145M payroll…unless of course if you add Podsednik as your leadoff man, which means Bourjos is your bench player, and Wells is your CFer…meaning a worse defense in 2011 for the Angels.
I dont get it.
Reagins signs GMJ for 50 mil, Hunter for 90 mil, and takes on Wells 86 mil deal, and Arte Moreno is the guy u look at….
Minaya signs Perez for 36 mil, Castillo for 24 mil…and Minaya is the guy everyone looks at. despite the fact that the wilpons are known to be one of the worst meddling owners in all of baseball….
amazin
True Reagins hasn’t been making good decisions over the past several years, BUT I would put money on it that Moreno AND Reagins were both equally involved in this V-Wells trade decision!
But yes Reagins is crippling the Angel Organization, like Bavasi did with the Mariners.
I can’t disagree with u only b/c i don’t know the level of Arte’s involvement prior to the Reagins era ( no pun intended ), however, Moreno was owner when Bill Stoneman was GM…and they made some pretty good decision making…and I dont think Bill and Arte are on the outs as Bill is still in the org as an advisor….so exactly how has Arte been involved in bad/good deals before ?
The Wilpons have been meddling since they purchased 50% of the Mets, the average GM does not even last 3 seasons with them…and somehow people have made Omar Minaya the scape-goat.
BA ranked angels farm system 9th this year, if i remember correctly
“NO WAY Angel fans you will even touch Rangers and the A’s this year.”
really? what makes you think that?
Sure they won LAST YEAR. This year it’s different.
Don’t count out the Angels…
Been lurking, watching all the Angel bashing. Hear me out.
This deal is not the disaster it seems. Talent wise, this could be a slam dunk win for the the Angels. Anyone who has watched Juan Rivera and Mike Napoli closely would have to agree. Napoli gets hot maybe twice a season, the rest is strikeouts, pop ups, and double plays. He’s a terrible defensive catcher, I actually think he’s better at first base. Juan Rivera showed last year all the signs of a player that does not have a productive year left. He was absolutely brutal, both in the field and at the plate.
Outside of the financial commitment, which is only four years, if you don’t think that adding Vernon Wells to the Angel lineup is a huge upgrade on offense and defense, you must not have seen many Angel games last year.
Of course nobody knows for sure.
Totally Agree. There’s been way too much Angel bashing. Comparing this to GMJ, LOL. That was an awful deal. I’m so glad to see Rivera gone and Nap. Those who don’t agree probably didn’t go to a lot of games. To see Rivera’s lack of hustle in person is way different than TV. Nap’s swing is garbage(swinging for the fences) with a ton of strike outs and pop ups.
@PatrickC
Napoli gets hot maybe twice a season, the rest is strikeouts, pop ups, and double plays.
Sounds like Vernon Wells. Now you know why us Jays fans had $86-million reasons to cringe.
Disqus fail.
If you cringed at a .273 avg, 31 Hr, .515 SLG, and a 4.4 oWar last year then what can I say? Compare that to career years for Napoli and Rivera. All I basically said is that the Angels added an All-Star outfielder and gave up two players they did not want or need.
Wait till you see their defense. Rivera is so frickin lazy, NO hustle. Nap is fat and can’t catch(where is real value should be) not much value DH or 1st. His swing is so ugly, Upper cut swing with a lot of strike outs. What did he have? like 140 Strike outs with under 500 AB?not sure , but it’s ugly…
We all know angels won the talent portion of this trade, its the contract they took that just doesnt equal the slight upgrade they got over those players. Vernon doesnt get on base much , and you will notice a ton of pop ups when hes struggling,but clearly hes the best player in this trade. Rivera was a throw in so i wont even talk about him, Napoli serves a purpose becuase he will likely be used at all 3 spots(1b,C,Dh) to add some versatility for the Jays until Lind and Jpa run away with the catcher and 1b spots, you have to realise it was never about winning the talent part of the trade, jays needed to get rid of that contract to open tons of budget and rostor flexibilty, and they did, while adding decent pieces that can be nice stop gaps for next year.
PatrickC – You’re so right…
“Been lurking, watching all the Angel bashing. Hear me out.
This deal is not the disaster it seems. Talent wise, this could be a slam dunk win for the the Angels. Anyone who has watched Juan Rivera and Mike Napoli closely would have to agree. Napoli gets hot maybe twice a season, the rest is strikeouts, pop ups, and double plays. He’s a terrible defensive catcher, I actually think he’s better at first base. Juan Rivera showed last year all the signs of a player that does not have a productive year left. He was absolutely brutal, both in the field and at the plate.
Outside of the financial commitment, which is only four years, if you don’t think that adding Vernon Wells to the Angel lineup is a huge upgrade on offense and defense, you must not have seen many Angel games last year.
Of course nobody knows for sure.
Everybody knows Wells is the better player… it was never about talent vs talent, we all know angels won the talent portion of this trade, its just mind blowing that they agreed to pay 86 million over 4 years for a guy who is worth half of that , not to mention giving up decent talent in return just to make there club slightly better on the field.
I’m not convinces the Jays didn’t send cash or eat salary somehow. I need a referance to whomever said it was confirmed.
its been confirmed by both gms lol…it crazy i know , but its true