The Reds and right-handed pitcher Johnny Cueto signed a four-year contract extension with a club option for 2015, the team announced (on Twitter). The deal is worth $27MM, tweets Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportes.com.
Cueto was arbitration-eligible, and he and the Reds were about $900,000 apart on their submitted salary figures, per our Arbitration Tracker. The right-hander was seeking $3.9MM, while Cincinnati offered $3MM.
The deal buys out all three years of Cueto's arbitration eligibility, plus one year of potential free agency. Rumors of the Reds and Cueto having preliminary talks about a long-term extension surfaced in early December but were relatively quiet thereafter, as Cincinnati turned its focus on extending Jay Bruce and buying out Joey Votto's three years or arbitration-eligibility.
It's been a busy and expensive offseason after a resurgent 2010 for the Reds, who've committed a combined $151MM in salaries — the majority of which went to Votto, Bruce and Cueto — tweets Fay. Edinson Volquez remains unsigned after he and the Reds exchanged arbitration figures.
The 24-year-old Cueto posted a 3.64 ERA with 6.7 K/9 and 2.7 BB/9 in 185 2/3 innings last year. He has started at least 30 games for three consecutive seasons and has career marks of 7.3 K/9, 3.1 BB/9 and a 4.27 ERA.
if he donates 1/3 of it to jason larue id let him walk on a mound again. gosh what a tool
So long as he’s not going out, falling asleep at the wheel and getting a DUI.
I have drove after drinking, and I’m guessing most people here have made that mistake. I have never kicked spikes into someones face/head, and I will guess no one here has either.
You’re no better than Cueto. I have zero respect for people that drink and drive. What if you wrecked into a car and took the other driver’s life? That’s a little bigger than taking away a mediocre career.
As I said, it’s a mistake that a lot of people make. But it happens. What kind of career Larue had has nothing to do with what Cueto did. I don’t need or even care if I have your respect.
Keep driving drunk then, see how well that works out for you.
most people do it once and fell horrible about it…I did it once and got away with it and will never do it again. I was so mad and ashamed with my self for doing it. I will never say it is ok to do it…but if you do it and are mad about it there is no reason to talk trash to people about it…yes you can potentially hurt someone..but you can do the same driving 100% sober
You are a joke. Larue and Cueto might as well be a figment of your imagination, they are sports stars in an entertaiment business. The Reds and Cards and Cueto and Larue have no connection to you, except for the fact you happened to have been born in the STL area. Drinking and Driving kills innocent people everyday. One of my high school classmates had his life taken at age 16 just because he was coming home from his girlfriend’s house the same time a drunk driver left the bar. Don’t get on here and throw that around, learn something about what’s important in life. You getting your panties in a bunch because Larue got into a scrum with a former teammate of his (Louisville AAA) and got the worst of it doesn’t give you a right to spout off about your criminal past. Typical Cards fans…
are you sure you are replying to the right person? I never said anything about cueto and larue fighting at all…i was simplying saying to someone that driving drunk once is horrible yes but dont make the person who did it out to be a bad person they made a mistake. I was in no way saying drunk driving is ok, or laws should be relaxed. I was relating to a previous poster who had said they had done it and would never do it again…I really wonder where you got the notion that i said drunk driving was ok or fun or safe or anything other than a huge mistake. The closest thing i said to that was yes people die from Drunk driving but just as many people die from sober drivers….and again i never said anything about the baseball players and im not a cards fan i again dont know where you got that notion I again NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT LARUE OR CUETO FIGHTING AND I NEVER GOT MY PANITES IN A BUNCH!…you might want to fully read a post before replying to it, and then make sure you reply to the right person
“yes people die from Drunk driving but just as many people die from sober drivers”
Seriously? You’re trying to say driving drunk is better than what Cueto did because “it happens” and “a lot of people have done it.” Come on now. In 2008, more than 11,000 people were killed by drunk drivers in the US. Kicking someone with metal cleats is certainly not something I would advocate, but is no where near the level of drunk driving.
Also, if you are being crushed up against a wall by a scrum of 30 large guys with no way to move them or escape, you don’t think about what kind of shoes you’re wearing. You kick and make sure you don’t get your legs crushed. I hate all this holier-than-thou BS that people are spouting like Cueto planned this out and thought about what shoes he was wearing, what he was doing, and aimed for LaRue’s head with the intention of hurting him.
Drunk driving: it just happens.
Stay classy, Cardinals fans.
“Drunk driving: it just happens.
Stay classy, Cardinals fans. ”
it may happen but it is no way shape or form good, or fun or cool….most people do it once and never again because of the shame they feel from them selves, friends and family and thats not at all counting the people who get DUI’s…other have serious issues and wont ever stop doing it thats a whole nother arguement.
as for the stay classy cards fans thing…..are you saying that only cards fans have driven drunk? im pretty sure it happens in every single city in every single state…might want to chill there bud
On the contrary, I’m pretty sure that a chilled Bud is the one thing a thread reply to stl_cards16 doesn’t need.
“I don’t need or even care if I have your respect.”
Good thing. Now, go light the candles in your Jason LaRue shrine and weep silently over what might have been.
Have you ever started an unnecessary fight that got a friend of yours hurt? Chris Carpenter has…
You have to be the biggest tool on the planet.
Did you ever get inducted to the Hispanic Heritage Baseball Museum and then spend a year talking about your support for a clearly unconstitutional law which targets members of your community?
I think you’re lacking some logic here…
I think you’re lacking some logic here…
Do Cardinal fans forget that LaRussa has been pull over too?
Jason Larue did alot in a Reds uniform, as well. If you were starting a professional baseball game and were pushed up against a wall in a brawl with no real way of getting out, I bet you’d probably do what you could to get out, too. I’m not excusing Cueto, but let’s be realistic. Plus, let’s look at real salary… Larue would have made, what… $1mil for the rest of his playing days?
People are still bitching about that? Man, what tore you guys away from insulting Juan Marichal’s Wikipedia page?
East Coast Bias
I have no idea what the Reds are doing…
locking young players up for cost certainty, much like the Indians did in the mid-90’s?
I feel like cueto just made out VERY well
his ERA, WHIP and BB/9 have each decreased every year for the past 3. Hes learning HOW to pitch, instead of trying to throw 98 every time. 24 yrs old, great deal for redlegs.
This is a good deal for both sides. Cueto hits free agency at 28 years old and will have already made 27M. Can’t argue with that. Couple more good seasons and he’s in line for a nice pay day when he does hit free agency.
I hope he tears all the ligaments in his shoulder and elbow, and I hope that he does by getting hit with a bat by some little girl after he throws at them. All of cincy is a bunch of girls outside of jay bruce and scott rolen.
aaraon anderson = chris carpenter
I’m so happy that the Reds are locking up their stars (Votto, Bruce, Cueto). It’s great for baseball!!!
You understand that it’s not really locking them up right? In the case of Bruce and Votto they simply have agreed to a predetermined compensation rate over the duration of their pre-FA years. Point is, going to arb or agreeing to a deal up front doesn’t change the fact that these guys were going to be under team control for the exact same amount of time. In Cueto’s case they did get one extra year of team control.
I like the deals but they are by no means bargains. If all continue to play well the team probably saves a few million/player in the later portion of their contracts. Of course, if the players get hurt/regress the team is on the hook for the entire contract. That’s a lot of risk … especially when it is unnecessary.
The Reds bought out two years of Bruce’s FA with an option for the third. He was signed to a six year contract with an club option for a seventh year.
Jenny – you are correct. My mistake. Not sure what I was thinking when I wrote that about Bruce. Thanks for clarifying.
Ok maybe wrong choice of wording but I don’t agree with you that buying out Joey Votto’s arb years is risky or unnecessary.
East Coast Bias
What happened, basically, is that instead of going year by year and paying him AT MAX a certain amount, the Reds just gave him the contract at that same amount instead. It’s unnecessary in a sense that if Votto does everything he did last year or better, he would make the same amount through arbitration that he is getting guaranteed. It’s risky because if he doesn’t live up to those numbers, be it for injury or slump, he’s still getting the same amount.
EDIT: Disclaimer, I think he’ll be worth it, so I’m not arguing that. What’s odd is the business decision. The Reds could have the same player for the same amount of time for the same amount of money, at max, without guaranteeing anything. The fact that they didn’t buy out any FA years, and still pay him max arbitration just makes it seem very odd.
Spot on. Going this route provides the positives of:
1. No arbitration battles. Contention during these hearings can be significant and harm long-term relationships. Not likely but it does happen.
2. Budgetary certainty. The Reds won’t have to wait to exchange figures or depend on an arbiters ruling. Makes forecasting out 2-3 years much easier.
3. Potentially save money. Assuming that Votto was going to get $10m+ it’s possible that when added to years 5 and 6 he would have netted a combined value over $38m.
1. Injury or poor performance would significantly decrease his earning potential. Look at a guy like Morales for the Angels. Had he repeated his 2009 campaign in 2010 he would have been looking at $8m+ this year. Instead, because of an injury, he signed for under $3m. That’s a ton of money the Angels saved by not signing him to a deal to cover his arb years.
yeah all they did was lock him up for was one year of free agency…he will still walk and get paid a ton more from another team. I never really understood long term deals that buy our arb(which after some seasons makes the player get uber PAID and the next season it might work out for the team) but why only buy out the remaining ARB years and only 1 year of FA……if anything buy out the remaining arb years and at least 3 FA years
because giving a pitcher a contract longer than 4 years is the dumbest thing any GM can do?
thats not what im saying at all…im saying when he has 3 years of arb left it does not make sense to only buy out 1 FA year….Yes if he pitches amazingly over those 3 arb years the reds get a very good deal…but if he is horrible and would have made less in arb then its a bad signing…maybe wait 1 year to see whats going on…and buy out more arb years
Mostly I agree with you, but, as a Reds fan, I don’t want to be on the hook for a 15 million payout to a DL-riding Cueto. I think this signing is about not fighting with your player every year in arb and believing he might actually put things together and win 17 or 18 with a 3.50 ERA in 2012 (as a pie in the sky dream) and then you are presented with an arb demand for 12 million.
It is a gamble to sign them this early, though, I am in complete agreement. i would hate that deal if he were a position player (like I am not that fond of the Votto deal)
Time will tell if this ends up being an overpay. The way I figure it, this will be equivalent to Cueto making 3/5/7 in his three arb years and then $12M for his first free agent season. Cueto made some great strides last year, and I feel like that suspension really messed with his rhythm. It certainly messed up his fantasy value for me >.<
Reds paid too much for this 1. Period.
I can agree, they could have waited a year or two and saved themselves some money.
well in a year or two, won’t all his “foreign girl” shoulder ligaments be shredded? why choose now to start actually talking about the logic of this deal?
It won’t be worse than the Eric Milton signing thats for sure
Whats up with Volquez? Will the sign him before the hearing or trade him?
Jocketty has certainly been busy locking up his young players this year, as well as Arroyo. Gotta hand it to Castellini for doing the right thing there and not running his team like Loria does the Marlins. The Reds haven’t done much on the market to shore up their team but at least with these moves they’ll have a good core intact for at least the next three years.
That said, I think the Cueto extension is possibly the riskiest of the four. Votto and Bruce are pretty obviously good players, above average (in Votto’s case well above average). Arroyo is what he is, to me a bit expensive given the results for a team with Cincy’s payroll restrictions, but he’s good enough that his deal definitely isn’t terrible. Cueto has improved each of his first three years and he’s still young, he just doesn’t blow me away with talent though. For an average of only $6.75 million he’s worth the deal if he at least keeps doing what he did in 2010, I guess I just don’t see him turning into an ace or a true TOR. Which is good enough, not every young pitcher will turn into a TOR, and he’s not being paid like one, I just don’t know if I would be comfortable giving him four years if I were the GM or owner.
^^ Btw, yes I know those players, other than Arroyo, were already under team control for at least the next three years. I was thinking along the lines of the Marlins dealing their young stars before they start getting expensive. With these guys being cost controlled now the Reds can plan ahead and not have to deal one or more of them because they’re afraid of a big arb loss.
I worry about his 5’5″ body trying to throw 200 innings….
Hey, remember that time Cincy gave out two separate long-term extensions that were no benefit to the team at all?
I remember it like it was just yesterday.
It seems that Jocketty is locking up these players to be able to control the timing of the payout of their salaries, the values at which they’re at, to show the players that they want them in Cincy and are committed to winning, but also…
To show the fans that they’re committed to winning, and to get them out to the ballpark, so by the time all of these contracts come to the big $ years, people are actually showing up to the stadium, and they have the money to spend. I don’t disagree with the strategy, and as a Reds fan who has a great time every time I go to GABP, I hope other fans see it too and head out to the ballpark to support our team.
I love it…..IMO Johnny C needs to keep going on the path that he`s on. I think his biggest issues at this point in his career are mental. He`s matured every year he`s been with the big club and I wouldn`t expect anything less for the next four years. Once this kid learns how to not get rattled when things aren`t going his way and to stay within himeslf he could very well be a top of the rotation starter. One more thing…..to all of you bitter Cards fans……What he did was self preservation pure and simple. As for LaRue…he was washed up anyway, that`s why the Reds cut him loose!
Great deal for both sides! Cueto has all of the tools and he`s improving every season. Once he learns to stay within himself and not get rattled when thins don`t go his way he could very well be a top of the rotaion starter. One more thing….to all of you whinning Cards fans……it was your boy Carpenter who started all of the crap to begin with and all Cueto was doing was an act of self preservation. As for LaRue…..feel bad for the guy, but then again he was washed up anyway…that`s why we cut him loose! Maybe Carpenter should pay him a monthly disabilty check!
Pretty sure Loud Mouth Phillips started all of that… many can come to that conclusion without bias.
Reds fan here: Phillips started it (although Molina could’ve avoided it) and Carpenter made it worse.
True….Loudmouth did. And many Reds fans like myself thought his comments were very bush league. But Carpenter started the actual fight.
man this is a good looking team.
Projected Reds Lineup if i’m not mistaken. Really the past year was a fluke, will finish in 4th behind the Cardinals, Brewers, and Cubs.
Fred Lewis – LF (Johnny Gomes is way better, but I think Lewis will start)
Brandon Phillips – 2B (Average second basemen)
Joey Votto – 1B ( Probably another MVP caliber season)
Scott Rolen – 3B ( Alright last year, but expect a decline)
Jay Bruce – RF (Fluke)
Drew Stubbs – CF (Average)
Edgar Renteria – SS (All Walt Jocketty, expect brendan ryan average )
Ryan Hanigan/Ramon Hernandez – C (Both are bad.)
First to fourth, love it. What you said about the catcher position tells me everything i need to know. Hanigan .300BA, Hernandez .297 BA — youre right both are bad
Lol, I wouldnt say 1st to 4th is impossible because the central improved a lot outside of the reds. The cubs player really well at the end of the year and they added talent, the brewers got a lot better and really did not lose anyone, and the cards added talent as well and if they stay healthy they could be the team to beat. I expect votto to be good and Bruce to improve, but with that said Renteria is garbage and Rolen will decline. I think finishing 4th is harsh but not impossible but I do not see them having a whole injury free season in which they finish 1st, im calling 2nd or 3rd.
Fair enough, I think, but like all baseball teams, they will only go so far as their pitching. The Reds run pitching depth out there every day and that’s not common
I love Brandon’s average gold glove season.
you’re right, Jay Bruce was a fluke. because this season will be seen as his worst in a long long time.
I have no clue why people hate on Bruce. Check the stats. Rookie year had its ups and downs, next year filled with injuries and last year he finally stopped swingin for the fences and he hit for AVG. No reason to believe he will decline
re-read the guys statement. He’s saying Bruce is gonna be good and that he’s only gonna get better
I think he’s referring to the original poster, even if he replied to NAtsTown
Probably the dumbest post I have ever seen. There are so many things wrong with this i don’t know where to start.
1. “Johnny Gomes is way better.” This is one of the dumbest statements in the history of mankind. You do realize that he had a negative WAR last year and has never had a WAR above 2.
2.”Jay Bruce – RF (Fluke) Really??? What planet do you live on? Have you ever watched baseball before?
3. “Ryan Hanigan/Ramon Hernandez – C (Both are bad.) You do realize the Reds had like the third most productive backstop in all of baseball last year right?
I think any one of the Reds, Brewers, or Cards could win the Central, but to say the Reds were a fluke and that they will finish 4th behind the Cubs is just stupid.
Let them hate all they want … same clowns kept predicting the Reds would fade all the way until the day they clinched … Card fans like these feel any team beside theirs winning the division is a “fluke”. Its all they have to hang on to while they are out there fretting whether or not Pujols resigns lol
They lost the division so the only thing they have to rant on is Cueto … even though their own players and manager are as much to blame for that scuffle as anyone. Anytime they lose they can’t just tip their hat to the opponent and move on .. its always some cheating conspiracy with LaLoser & Co. lol…
Heck, combine that “analysis” by seeing who on the Cards will contribute outside of Holliday and Pujols. They have such a “scrubs and stars” plan going in St. Louis that their fans thinks that must be how all baseball teams are put together
can’t wait to see Berkman in LF. Can’t. Wait.
you will be waiting a long time. he is going to play RF.
Wow, Ray, just wow. I think of Ray king, fine LH reliever. You’re ruining the legacy.
Are you kidding? I thought Matt was going to play RF next season? Lance Berkman in RF will encompass what Vlad did in the same position in game 1 of the WS for a whole season.
At the Cardinals Winter Warmup, LaRussa said that Holliday is the LF and Berkman is the RF. “Lance will make the routine play out there, there’s no doubt in my mind,” the manager said. “That’s where he’s going to play, and Matt doesn’t have to make a change.” I would link to the article, but I don’t know if linking to other sites is good internet manners… you can go to the sports section at stltoday and check it out.
LaRussa had also made similar comments (stating the Berkman will be in RF) previously to Bernie Miklasz and Jim Bowden.
great “analysis” on your part. heard of Rasmus or Molina?
Yeah, can Molina catch 150 games again? Remind me why Colby Rasmus is thought of as a star in StL when he is just an above average ballplayer at best?
Last year potential ROY in David Freese if he didn’t get hurt.
Lance Berkman – MVP capable.
Colby Rasmus will continue to improve, 25/25 guy.
Skip – Down year last year, Hopefully will go back to his .300 AVG.
Lance Berkman is MVP candidate if this were 2005. Freese is acceptable, but he’s just like Penny last year (the only player in the organization who can fill a role, since the organization has no depth). Skip Schumaker is a cool player, but he neither hits enough to be a left fielder nor plays enough defense to be a 2nd baseman. Rasmus is above average. Fine player, but you haven’t shown me who can get on base, who can play SS without having an wOBA of 290 or less or who will fill in if they get hurt.
In the end, like most Cards fans, you seem to think the Reds were pretenders to your perennial crown, instead of seeing the 2010 Cards as what they were: a deeply flawed team. Not much in the organization has changed since last August when they bravely swept the Reds and then went on to die at the hands of lesser clubs.
Milwaukee got better; the Cubs can’t be that unlucky again, and the Reds should stay about the same. Should be an interesting race, if you take your rose-colored glasses off long enough to catch it
The 2010 Cardinals were indeed a deeply flawed team. The boatload of losses we had to below .500 teams after the Reds series definitely showed that. However, I was taking issue with your “scrubs and stars” allegation. Molina and Rasmus are definitely not scrubs (and you admit that for Rasmus by saying that he is “above average”), and same for Freese. I’m not enthused about the Berkman signing, but he is not a “scrub.”
I do envision a three team race (apologies to the Cubs), with the tiebreaker going to whoever has the least critical injuries.
Fair enough. How dare you use my words against me! Although, to be fair, I stole “scrubs and stars” from someone at Baseball Prospectus.
I couldn’t agree more with your final assessment, although, I hesitate to think the Brewers are deep enough. Still, the Reds were pretty lucky last year, in my estimation, so I have as little faith in them as I always do
That’s some in-depth analysis there, Stl_Great (is that Pedro Martinez in your avatar?).
Let’s break this down for you:
LF- In all likelihood, Lewis and Gomes will platoon. If you care to look at their splits, Lewis is great vs. RHP, and Gomes crushes lefties.
2B- If an average second baseman plays GG defense and is a 20/20 threat every year,, then how would you describe Skip Schumaker?
1B- Can’t fault you for this one
3B- Hey, two in a row! He is what he is. Great D, good leader, decent bat, injury prone.
RF- Jay Bruce is a fluke. Yep, you’re totally right. A .281/.353/.493 line (5.3 WAR) with GG-caliber defense in RF as a 23 year old.
CF- Another young kid, who is a 25/30 threat, who plays great defense. Again, if this is average, I’ll take it.
SS- Though I’m not sure I buy it, most indications point to Janish starting. He’s a defensive whiz with a sub-par bat. If he can keep walking, and hit .250 I’m fine with him batting 8th. Renteria will sub, and probably suck/get injured. But whatever.
C- I can’t argue with your take here. You really just have presented too many facts for me to refute. I bow to your analytical prowess.
Yeah it’s Pedro, I don’t see why Reds fans are presenting their team as great, they’re not.
Great? You mean, like in the very names we choose to use on the forum!? Reds fans just endured 10 years of losing; I doubt many of them think their team is “great.” I like to think as ten games better than the Cards last year and returning the same healthy bunch of characters.
If Janish hits .250, then I promise to buy Stl_Great the Pujols-autographed Snuggie he so richly desires.
After saying that, I am so fine with him starting at SS and Renteria on the bench and explaining to some young kid (Stl_Great would be unfamiliar with the fact that people under 38 can play MLB, but it’s true!) what it’s like to almost kill Jose Mesa with a line drive.
Molina or Hernandez? Molina
Pujols or Votto? Pujols
Schumaker or Phillips? Phillips (reluctantly)
Freese or Rolen? Push (they’ll both be on the DL)
Theriot or Janish? Push (can’t truthfully predict what either will do)
Holliday or Lewis/Gomes? Holliday
Rasmus or Stubbs? Rasmus
Berkman or Bruce? Bruce
Wainwright or Volquez? Wainwright
Carpenter or Cueto? Carpenter
Garcia or Arroyo? Garcia
Westbrook or Bailey? Westbrook
Lohse or Leake? Lohse
Franklin or Cordero? Cordero
Score looks like this:
I am sure Reds fans will tell me I suck and don’t know what I am talking about, but how can you deny this? Cards > Reds
i would take Rolen well before Freese, and Leake well before Lohse. The rest seems accurate. Reds have stronger depth though so its a lot closer than you think it is.
How is Chris Carpenter going to explain this to his son?
Son, when a scuffle breaks out and cools off I don’t want you to act like Daddy did and let his mouth shoot off to escalate what was a deflating situation. That’s why Daddy’s friend Rolen came after him when everybody seemed to be calming down and everything else followed. Let the managers do the talking and just keep your mouth shut.
at least he won’t have to explain to him that he kicked someone in the face with metal spikes on
The Reds are identifying their core players this offseason. Bruce, Votto, Cueto and soon Volquez. Those are the Reds prime 4 players. So considering Cueto is one of their 4 core players, this deal is not overpaying, it’s call cost certainty. P.S. I’d kick anyone in the face with spikes who had my back up against a fence and was pushing against me. Get over it crybabies.
Now he can buy some gold spikes to kick people with.
P.S.S. – Who would know more about what to pay a player? The NL executive of the year Jocketty or some Noob on mlbtraderumors? I’d go with the Executive of the year.
GM’s never get it wrong. Especially those with the super duper important title of Executive of the Year. If you would like I can provide a list of horrid deals that Jocketty has made over the years. He makes mistakes … just like all GM’s.
It’s pretty simple – your GM is taking a gamble. One that will either look good, be OK, or turn out terrible. The problem is that the risk is completely outside of his control. Nobody questions whether Votto is a great player or not. The point is that if Votto gets hurt then this deal goes south quickly. You could easily be out $8m. On the other hand, if Votto continues his stellar play you save maybe $4-6m vs going year to year.
The most likely outcome … it’s a non-story. Votto plays at a high level, stays relatively healthy, and would have earned about the same amount of money as going year to year.
right, with the added bonus of cost certainty. Which is why the deal makes sense. 2 out of 3 scenarios benefit the team. 1, which for simplicity’s sake we’ll say hinges on an injury, does not.
Not the steal of the offseason, but a good, fair deal for both sides.
Gunner how many titles has your team won?
Huh? Oh, I see … you are looking for something new to grasp onto to make yourself feel better? lol OK, I can play that game … Who is the reigning NL Central champs? Who wilted last season under in the race for the title?
As far as Cueto’s actions goes:
“I do believe ‘that where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.'” – Ghandi
If anyone trying to tarnish the prestige of the Cincinnati Reds organization by comparing titles only makes last season’s victory over the St. Louis Cardinals even more humiliating for them. Add to that, a humiliating and bloody loss in the brawl and I can see why so many Cardinal fans are so obsessed with us.
I’m a Reds fan, but despite the brawl, we got owned in that series, so that might not be your best argument. But comparing payrolls, that’s a good one.
The last time I checked MLB plays 162 game seasons which pretty much eliminates flukes from the postseason.
If the Cardinals were men, they would’ve won the division.
If Cardinal fans were men, they won’t argue about style points over a meaningless three game series or whine about losing a fight.
Or say that drunk driving is OK
i can’t stand drunk drivers, but in fairness, the one guy did say that he felt terrible about it so you have no room saying he thought it was OK.
I don’t think anyone is whining about losing a fight, rather the way that it went down. Throwing karate kicks is something that is pretty easy to make fun of. Just like Rick James did with Charlie Murphy.
“Don’t you think Charlie’s a little old to be taking karate. He probably taking it with the little kids.”
Cueto celebrated by landing a spinning sidekick to the face of the nearest backup catcher.
Cueto celebrated by landing a spinning sidekick to the face of the nearest backup catcher.
The extreme homerism on this thread is outrageous. The Reds are a good team. 4th place? i doubt this.
this is how i see the breakdown.
1b- Pujols is better. This isn’t even worth debating but i know someone is gonna throw the “WELL VOTTO WON MVP” stuff at me so here it is anyways. Pujols is the more consistent talent and even last year, he had a higher WAR than Votto. I expect Votto to be really good but more 2009 votto(over a full season) than 2010 votto.
2b- Philips is better. see above, not worth debating. He is better offensively and defensively than Skip/Punto/Greene/Descalso.
3b- Rolen but this isn’t a given. His second half wasn’t good and he will in all likelihood continue to decline. If Freese is healthy and Rolen is like he was in the 2nd half, its a push.
SS- Who cares. There is nothing attractive about Theriot/Renteria/Janish/Greene. This is the weakest link on both teams. Its basically a competition on who will suck less. Push.
LF- Holliday is head and shoulders better than Gomers/Lewis.
C- Molina but almost entirely because of defense and his second half, and 08/09. The reds have a very productive offensive platoon. He makes the pitchers better, shuts down the running game.
CF- Rasmus. He seems like a much more of a sure thing. Without looking it up, i remember throughout the season that Stubbs a roller coaster ride all year long. I just don’t know what to expect with him. Rasmus has the higher ceiling as well.
RF- Bruce. Not a fan of the berkman signing, but if healthy, he could be good. Still doesn’t change the fact that Bruce is a GG defender getting better. Skies the limit for him…
1 SP- Wainwright is better than Volquez and no one is gonna convince me otherwise. I’ve had this conversation with other reds fans and they keep going “WELL STFU, VOLQUEZ IS AWESOME BECUZ HE THROWS REALLY HARD AND CAN DOMINATE AT TIMES SO THERE!!” well that maybe true, but wainwright dominates almost every start and isn’t injury prone.
2 SP- Carpenter over Arroyo(or is it cueto? idk).
3 SP- Garcia isn’t a sure thing but the upside and his 2010 season make me take him well before Cueto/Arroyo.
4 SP- My guess is Wood will be the one slotted here. I’l take him over Westbrook, sorry cards fans. This guy is really good. Don’t think he will ever be a FOR guy, but neither is westbrook.
5 SP- I’l take the PUSH but it isn’t a given. I still think they made a mistake bringing him up so soon and it showed with how he got injured from the added innings. That said, Lohse is healthy and could still be 2008/early 2009 before all the injuries piled up. I’l say Push.
BP, Push. i’m not going in depth with Bench/BP because they are so volatile from year to year anyways.
Why is he not in jail for assault?
because he is a professional athlete. Nothing happens to them, its in the constitution.