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By Zachary Links | at
Email a copy of 'The New Posting System And What It Means For MLB' to a friend
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Jim Allen
Japan could back out of the posting system and just let its teams sell the negotiating rights, the way MLB clubs do with Triple-A players NPB wants.
Aramis Ramirez' Basement
Pretty Crazy a guy who has never thrown an MLB pitch got $155 M
Not like i didn’t want the Cubs to get Tanaka though lol
txftw
It is crazy, but it means that Tanaka must be pretty good to have multiple teams be willing to give him $155 million even though he’s never pitched in MLB.
Time will tell
maristmetsfan
Am I missing something with Soriano?
start_wearing_purple
Soriano initially played for Hiroshima but he got into a contract dispute and retired from NPB. He was the last major player to do so before NPB put their foot down.
M.C. Antil
Your lede is simply flat out wrong. Masanori Murakaki was the first Japanese-born player in the big leagues. He played for the Giants for two seasons in the 60’s.
start_wearing_purple
First “impact” Japanese-born player. So he’s correct.
John Cate
Murakami had enough of an impact that he nearly caused an international incident when the Giants tried to keep him past the time when the Japanese team had loaned him. And when he went back to Japan a year later, he got a ton of money (by the standards of that time) for his trouble.
John Cate
Murakami had enough of an impact that he nearly caused an international incident when the Giants tried to keep him past the time when the Japanese team had loaned him. And when he went back to Japan a year later, he got a ton of money (by the standards of that time) for his trouble.
Joe Valenti
I never realized Soriano played in the NPB
Harris
This is just another example of MLB catering to the small markets. For all the whining that people make about the Yankees overspending, it seems that Free Agency is the only place they can actually spend their money.
stl_cards16
The Yankees are spending $175MM to get Tanaka…..and you think this system helps small markets? Only a handful of teams can even think of giving out a contract that large to anyone.
Harris
Because so many teams were able to post such an inexpensive posting fee, competition was raised, therefore increasing the amount the Yankees had to pay Tanaka. The Yankees were one of a few teams who could have afforded an expensive posting fee, therefore the small amount of a max bid catered significantly to small market teams.
stl_cards16
The Yankees did not HAVE to pay Tanaka any amount. So you think MLB need to make rules to help the Yankees spend less money while still getting any player they want? I’m not sure of your complaint.
APBA
Your comment isn’t a response to anyone else. After Yankees spent $491m on FAs, some may think you’re the whiner.
Harris
Obviously the Yankees spending says a lot about their inability to develop minor leaguers, but Free Agency is one of the only areas where the Yankees can spend the resources that their franchise brings in. The draft as well as international Free Agency now have spending limits, so the Yankees can’t even fully use their resources on younger players.
bigb69
The spending limits are more like spending suggestions with penalties. the Yankees don’t care about either as they have stated they will blow the international spending limit out of the water this year.
APBA
Obviously you’ve missed the news this week that said Yankees planning to blow past the spending limit on international players. Any cursory internet search will locate articles on this. They’ll probably spend more on foreign players than any other team spends on their draft picks.
Also, Yankees stood to have 4 first round picks this year, starting with the 18th. But, that would required a rebuild period, that all other teams have to go through from time to time. Yankees ‘chose’ not to, and forfeited all 4 of those picks, to acquire FAs. These are choices of the Yankees, based on avoiding mediocrity for a few years, but they come with a cost in draft picks.
Fernando P
Completely agree with you Denny. Most fans won’t accept a rebuild in NY, but the team made that choice to forego the picks. i wish they would have, since you can’t keep paying guys in the late thirties those ridiculous salaries.
sgtschmidt11
Baseball is already losing ground to other sports and you are advocating for making it less competitive by letting teams spend wherever and however they want to? How would other teams even compete against the Dodgers and Yankees? What fun would it be to watch the Yanks vs. Dodgers every World Series?
Fernando P
You’re comment would hold more water, except for the fact that Yankees last won in 2009 and the Dodgers in 1988. Many small market clubs have been quite successful, so spending money does not mean team can’t compete with the big market teams. The Twins, A’s, Rays, Reds, Indians , etc are just a few of the clubs that have enjoyed success during that time.
APBA
The previous post was ‘hyperbole’. I don’t think anyone expects a Yank and Dodger WS every year.
Also, find it funny you pointed out Dodgers ’88 as being so long ago. The five small market teams you consider “enjoyed success during that time”:
Rays: Never won a WS
Indians: 1948
A’s: 1989
Reds: 1990
Twins: 1991
Does “during that time” mean not since 1991?
Fernando P
I could have listed the Cardinals or Tigers. They have won several series in that time and ML considers them small markets teams that need help in the form of competitive balance picks. My point was that teams CAN compete with big spenders. Those teams do so via smart picks, good player development and smart free agent deals. It’s possible. When the Yankees were winning in the late 90’s the core of the team was home grown, a fact that many detractors and FANS of the team forget. It isn’t about spending money.
APBA
Agree with ’90s Yankees point. Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Williams even O’Neil (though he wasn’t homegrown). They had a homegrown feel to them. But, thats the reason they get so much heat now a days . They don’t have that mix anymore. Almost the entire team is made up of guns for hire and it looks to be getting worse.
johnbrooks
Your missing the whole point, Oakland is always in the hunt for the Series. Also they’ve been the unlucky team always on a losing side of a Game 5 in the ALDS, a Game 5 is virtually a 50-50 coin flip. There always right there in the hunt for the Series so Beane is doing something extremely right.
APBA
Your missing the whole point. The earlier poster used World Series victories as to the benchmark to say Yankees and Dodgers aren’t that dominate. Then, in the very same post, he proceeded to list 5 “successful” team who each have poor WS victory history in recent years. I was simply pointing out the irony of his post. (Your reading my post out of content to what it was a response to)
My point is Yankees have been in playoffs 16 of 19 years, while leading the league in payroll 17 of those years. Thats not a coincidence. Money does guarantee playoff appearances, and World Series victories.
sgtschmidt11
You’re rigth they can, but the guy above me is advocating for making the system MORE slanted towards the large market teams. Mine was indeed hyperbole, a what-if, not a what-is scenario. The Yanks are already the most winning team of the decade, I’d prefer if they don’t totally run away with the game.
Fernando P
And for all the whining about the Yankees overspending, not enough is made of the fact that they are paying luxury tax to help other teams. And even more important to note, no one is forcing teams like the Astros and Marlins to put that luxury tax to use. Those teams prefer to pocket the checks and make little effort to make their clubs competitive.
APBA
Whining (definition): Your team spends 491 million on Free Agents and yet, still complain about the system being unfair to them.
Fernando P
I don’t agree with what they spent, but my point was some teams aren’t even trying to compete. yes, the team is spending money to win, but spending that much doesn’t guarantee anything except spending a lot of money.
APBA
Of course it doesn’t “guarantee” anything. But, its not a coincidence that Yankees have 16 playoff appearances since ’95 (16 out of 19 seasons) and have had the highest payroll every year except twice during that time, either. (’95 Jays, ’98 Orioles, only teams to have a higher payroll)
But, I do agree with the Marlins and Astros point. There should be a minimum team payroll too, or you lose that league income.
John Cate
You really shouldn’t lump the Astros in with the Marlins. The Astros are a large-market team, playing in the fifth-largest metropolitan area and fourth-largest city in the country. The Marlins are a small-market team. The Astros are just a disgrace.
gogosox
Get rid of a posting system all together and if an MLB team wants a Japanese player before they hit free agency, work out a trade. The Yankees could have sent A-rod and Sabathia to Rakuten for Tanaka!
C. McCarthy
A total pipe dream, but man would this have been awesome to see happen!
stl_cards16
Yeah I’m sure they would love to pay ARod and Sabathia ridiculous contracts.
txftw
I wonder how many contracts would have No-Japan-trade clauses. It would be interesting to see which players would want it, but I can’t imagine a majority of MLB players would be ok with playing in Japan at the drop of a hat.
Trock
MLB is going to pay more in the long run. Tanaka will be a prime example of what ‘premier’ NBP players are going to cost. I like the old system better. The team doesn’t have to post the player so they should be entitled to get as much money out of it as possible.
Patrick Newman
Small nit-pick: Irabu didn’t move to MLB uncompensated, the Padres traded Shane Dennis and Jason Thompson for him. I think there was cash involved too, but I don’t know how much. Irabu refused to sign a contract with the Padres, so they traded him to the Yankees for a much better package than they gave up to get him.
Curious in the East
Why did the Japanese Baseball League agree to this new posting system? The owners in the MLB would never agree to leave tens of millions of dollars on the table. Yet, that is exactly what Japanese Baseball did. This agreements works great for the players & MLB owners. I simply do not understand why the owners in NPB agreed to this unfavorable deal. I have not see this answered anywhere.
Cock Flakes
It was take the new agreement or MLB would just wait the nine years for them to become FA’s and the Japanese teams would get nothing. The ball is still in their court if they want to post them or not.
mehs
Or MLB could have just ignored the Japanese leagues and made all players from Japan international free agents and the NPB would get nothing.
Curious in the East
I think this theory is a strong one. I am just surprised that none of the baseball writers broke down why the NPB accepted the deal. Would make an interesting story. I think waiting 9 years is not an option for either side, too much can happen. But simply making them international free agents like players form Cuba makes sense if the NPB didn’t play ball.
If the new deal did not happen, I wonder how Japan would have reacted if the MLB did make their players international FAs? It probably would have meant the courts getting involved which I know MLB wouldn’t want to happen. But all of that is moot now. Thanks for the responses.
John Cate
If they did that, then Japan would just bar all American players from playing in NPB. The players’ union in the U.S. would never allow that to happen. Nearly all of the “Quad-A” types who go over to Japan to play are members of the MLBPA and have the same agents as established major-leaguers.
This almost happened once, back in the 1960s when the San Francisco Giants tried to keep Masanori Murakami after a Japanese team had loaned him and another player to a Giants’ minor-league team. Murakami did so well that the Giants called him up, and wanted to keep him when he pitched well. The Japanese threatened to ban all American players if the Giants didn’t back down. And this was before the MLBPA had a fraction of the power it does now.
John Cate
If they did that, then Japan would just bar all American players from playing in NPB. The players’ union in the U.S. would never allow that to happen. Nearly all of the “Quad-A” types who go over to Japan to play are members of the MLBPA and have the same agents as established major-leaguers.
This almost happened once, back in the 1960s when the San Francisco Giants tried to keep Masanori Murakami after a Japanese team had loaned him and another player to a Giants’ minor-league team. Murakami did so well that the Giants called him up, and wanted to keep him when he pitched well. The Japanese threatened to ban all American players if the Giants didn’t back down. And this was before the MLBPA had a fraction of the power it does now.
N1120A
The Japanese players union put their foot down and threatened all kinds of stuff
johnbrooks
Yes, but as mentioned above what if NPB just scraps the posting system?
Then lets the team sell there players the way MLB does to foreign
leagues or the way the Independent leagues sell players to MLB teams? If
I were NPB, I scrap the posting system and start selling off the top
players that want to go to MLB where there would be no hard cap on the
amount of money a NPB team gets.
mehs
My point is that if NPB didn’t want to have an agreement that MLB could ignore the NPB contracts all together making the selling of NPB contracts to MLB teams invalid since MLB wouldn’t recognize them. Thus the NPB players would all be free agents in MLB’s eyes regardless of their contract status with NPB. This would leave NPB with zero compensation if a player went to MLB. Think back to when players went between the NFL and AFL or USFL OR when players went between the NBA and ABA.
Norm Chouinard
“One National League executive who spoke with MLBTR on the condition of anonymity explained that the new system makes for a more level playing field.”
I may be wrong but I doubt this. While more teams can easily get into the bidding, the big market teams will win over the little teams whenever they choose. No different than Free Agency.
Richard Hood
This article is very well thought out and researched but leaves out one point of where the posting system came from. Nomo and all the rest that came before the deal was in place literally had to file retirement paper work to get out of the NPB contracts.