MAY 20: The Dodgers announced that Ryu will have an arthroscopic procedure tomorrow, to be performed by team surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache.
MAY 19, 11:45pm: Ryu has elected to undergo shoulder surgery, reports Mark Saxon of ESPN Los Angeles. According to Saxon’s source, an MRI on Ryu’s shoulder didn’t reveal a tear or any obvious structural damage, so the surgery would be exploratory in nature — an attempt to determine the cause of the inflammation that has prevented him from pitching in 2015. Nevertheless, an operation of that nature would cast significant doubt on Ryu’s ability to pitch for the Dodgers this season and, as Saxon notes, could send the team into a full-scale search for starting pitching upgrades.
11:40am: A “shoulder cleanup” is likely, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com tweets.
10:58am: Dodgers lefty Hyun-jin Ryu is weighing the possibility of a surgical option to solve his shoulder problems, Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports reports on Twitter. While Passan notes that a report out of Ryu’s native Korea suggests surgery will take place this week, his sources say that a decision has yet to be made.
This development is the latest sign of trouble for Ryu, who has struggled to regain velocity as his shoulder has continued to prove problematic. Ryu has yet to pitch this year, and recent reports indicated that he did not even have a timetable to re-start a throwing program.
The 28-year-old experienced arm issues last year, but has been excellent when healthy. All said, he’s provided Los Angeles with 344 innings of 3.17 ERA pitching, with 7.7 K/9 against 2.0 BB/9, over the last two seasons.
The Dodgers signed Ryu for six years and $36MM out of Korea in the winter of 2012 after paying a $25.7MM posting fee. That contract has long looked like a steal, but will cost the team more in the coming seasons, as Ryu is owed $7MM annually from 2016-18. (Of course, that’s a relatively meager sum for the large-budget Dodgers.)
Of more immediate concern to Los Angeles, the prospect of an even longer absence from Ryu brings the team’s starting depth into further question. Major free agent addition Brandon McCarthy is already going to miss this year and much of next after undergoing Tommy John surgery, and the team is currently trotting out Mike Bolsinger and Carlos Frias as its fourth and fifth starters. While those pitchers have (somewhat surprisingly) provided excellent results to date, it would not be surprising to see the Dodgers play a significant role on the summer trade market.
Luckily for the dodgers the rest of division isn’t good, might as well suggest ryu gets the surgery and gets healthy
Not good ,huh? Who are the defending Champions again?
The team that lost a impact 3B (but not star) and were 6 games worse than Dodgers last year?
When will haters learn to never count out the Giants? This is baseball it would not be surprising if the Padres won the division and the Giants the wild card. Anything can happen and in no way does amount of money spent equal amount of wins won. No need to throw shade in calling the division weak. Only weak link is Arizona and Colorado.
This has nothing to do with being a hater it has to do with the Dodgers having by far the best roster in the division and it will show that over a 162 game sample
Then the best team on paper gets shut out for two games while the full of holes Giants pitch good and hit during timely occasions. Sound familiar to any of you? To call a whole division weak simply because one team has more talent sounds like a hater or someone that is not in tune with the reality of MLB. Over any sample size you cannot equate the ups and downs and the injuries that occur in a 162 season.
The team that has the experience, knows how to do it in the postseason and the team you should fear (bust most of all respect). They finished 9 games ahead of the Dodgers in the postseason. It was the Giants who won the most games of any NL West team in 2014.
The Giants roster just has too many holes to hold up and do better than the Dodgers over a 162 game sample.
We’ll see. That’s why the games are played. Other than 3rd base, though, I see no glaring hole. The Giants will address that at the deadline or allow Duffy to continue to produce at that position. It’s true that the Dodgers have much better depth (thats what an additional 100MM gives you). But they have rotation holes unless their young fill ins continue to produce (but then again the Giants’ rotation has some holes to fill too). The Dodgers lineup will cool off, they won’t produce runs at that pace all year. Such is the nature of the game of baseball.
The Dodgers depth moves most recently didn’t really cost them much.
Nice call Posey as they are on a epic scoreless innings streak. Perhaps we all should hold off for a few months before we hand them the NL pennant or the NL West Championship no?
I don’t think the Giants are that good this year either, but they’ll always be there with Bochy, a good advance scouting team (evident by the game tonight as i’d imagine they are near the top of the league in turning hard contact into outs, mainly due to defensive placement), and a pen that does its job. I don’t think the Dodgers winning the division is a lock, especially if they receive another catastrophic injury.
you’ve given up on the Padres that fast?
Never really saw them as a big division threat objectively Dodgers are winning 90+
Dodgers go get Cole Hamels NOW !
With the Phillies wanting seager urias and pederson, I’m going to have to speak on behalf of the Dodgers and decline
I am a Phillies fan and even I think that is too much to pay. That said, one of the two hitters has to be included. If so, then the package does not have to include Urias.
It’s not going to happen. This has nothing to do with the value of hamels but with how dodgers regime is planning the future. They plan on building within. Those 3 are not going anywhere. Period. That’s why the dodgers have to look elsewhere unless the Phillies take another package.
Not really just declining Hamels. Pretty much any pitcher considered top of the rotation is going to cost 1 of those top 3 because there is such a huge decline after them. Which is fine. Phillies under Gillick traded lesser pieces to get Joe Blanton and won a World Series.
Under Ruben Amaro they traded away their top prospects and progressed less and less each year. Personally if I’m the Phillies I dont do a trade where Urias is the centerpierce and if I am the Dodgers I would definitely move Urias for a number 1 starter right now.
Pitching prospects are a longer shot than hitters and Urias is just pitching more than 3 innings a game for the first time this season.
I’m okay with a package around Grant Holmes, Van Slyke, Anderson, Lee, and Verdugo. I want more players from the Dodgers because none of the top 3 is leaving them. The value for Cole Hamels suggests one should go but there’s no way they’re leaving LA.
If the Phillies trade Hamels for a long list of second and third tier prospects Amaro is as stupid as fans think he is. Of course that’s what he got for Cliff Lee. So maybe he’ll take it.
If the Dodgers are going to make a deal for a frontline starter, I hope it’s Cueto, not Hamels.
We can take a not so front of the rotation guy like Kazmir.
Will he stay healthy? That’s the question.
Nope, those talks are over with. I think the Dodgers will target Cueto.
Middle Earth closer you say…
I know this comes up every time another arm/shoulder injury comes to light – is there any sort of comprehensive study that details whether there are indeed more such injuries now than there have been in the past? We sure seem to hear about it on an almost every-day basis, another pitcher losing a season due to injuries. Are we just hearing about it more due to the expertise of sites like MLBTR, or is it honestly a much bigger problem than before?
More and more Arm injuries happened when the Pitcher mound was dropped 6 inches . Pitchers have had to use more Arm muscles and had less leverage with the lower mound. Suggestion Raise the Mound , Juice up the Ball, Outlaw all Over shifts Defenses , Have DH in Both Leagues, This would Save the Pitchers and add much needed offenses to already boring Game. Baseball is 50 Years behind other Games in making Adjustments.
The mound was lowered in 1969…. until 1996 there was never more than 2 (with the first being done in 74) TJS in the MLB soooooooo. People are already complaining about the decrease in offense. Raising the mound would give a bigger advantage back to the pitcher. Offense is down in both leagues so how would the DH in the NL help offense in the AL. If it’s so boring why do you watch?
It’s worth considering that TJ surgery was relatively new back then and not as reliably successful as it is now. Even when TJ surgery was an option in years past probably a lot of pitchers with UCL injuries retired instead.
According interviews with Dr. Jobe the only real hesitation in performing the surgery was for the first 3 years after John himself. The only real advancement has been in the speed in doing the procedure. There just were not as many cases. Medical staff knew how to diagnose, they knew what a UCL tear was long before TJ….there just weren’t as many cases.
Orthopedics has advanced more in the last 15 years or so than just about any medical science, so it’s difficult to believe that TJ surgery is exactly the same now as it was when Jobe developed it.
I am simply going by interviews with Jobe, there are half a dozen or so online. Considering his expertise I trust what he said before his untimely departure. Dr. Jobe’s own words “The techniques have improved though. It takes about an hour now. With Tommy, it took about four.”. The procedure is the same just quicker.
I’ve read some of that, including the statistics about return rates (which have changed little since 1974). What is conspicuously absent from all of this is the number of players who have opted not to have the surgery over the years and why. One of the documented reasons TJ is so popular now is due to the perception on the part of athletes that the success rate is close to 100% (though it really isn’t). Also missing are any stats about whether players returned to their pre-surgery form.
m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/ will answer some of those questions . As far as returning to form….a study of 147 pitchers published in 2014 shows that ERA pre surgery 4.23 post 4.67 BAA pre .249 post .257 WHIP pre 1.368 post 1.432. Also 20% never return to pitch, 13% return to pitch at least 1 game and 67% return to pitch at least 10 games the year following. over 50% of all who do return hit the DL with an pitching arm/shoulder injury.
I replied earlier and included a link to an official MLB site but the reply never posted. It has much of the information you talked about and you may be interested in it. Just do a search for smart pitch. I also included some other statistics but I do not have the time to look them up again now. I’ll try to get back to it later.
Basically you can’t post links here, but I’ve looked around and read quite a bit myself and have probably read most of what you are pointing out. The problem with all the reports I’ve seen is they miss essential information. The biggest issue is all the stats count a TJ as being equally successful if the player makes one pitch in the majors post-surgery or if he completes a ten-year career. Obviously this metric doesn’t do a very good job of measuring success. They also don’t report repeated TJs, which could be a measure of the quality of the initial surgery and rehabilitation.
There is a study that differentiates the levels of success. 20% never make it back, 13% return to pitch one game the following year, 67% return to pitch at least 10 games. over 50% end up on the DL with pitching arm/shoulder problems. That link I can’t post. As to the link…. commenting policy clearly states MLB dot com is allowed. The site I mention is the MLB’s official “guideline” for young players and parents
Lets just say the study was broken down on a 4 letter network site
Several studies (mainly TJS related which I know this isn’t) have been done with some sponsored by MLB and more are going on. Some indications are degree of shoulder torsion. If a pitcher has a lower degree of torsion in his throwing shoulder than his non-throwing one he is 2.5 times more likely to develop elbow problems. As more studies are done I will bet that they will find a correlation between “over use” as a youth. Consider this….from 1974 to 1995 there were never more that 2 TJS in a single year. tae 70’s and early 80’s saw and increase of year-round camps and competition.
Thank you for this. It seems like it’s at least a weekly item now that another pitcher is having TJS, or some sort of severe arm/shoulder problem costing him a season, or at least significant rehab time. I’ll be looking for more studies to see what the experts find out. Again, thank you.
No problem….to give you an idea of TJS history I’ll repost the following… MLB only #’s 1996 – (10 TJS)…97 (7)…98 (0)….99 (22)…. 2000 (26)….2001 (25)…. 2002 (38)….2003 (29)….2004 (33)…. 2005 (13)…. 2006 (10)…. 2007 (7)….2008 (8)…. 2009 (8)….2010 (11)….2011 (30)….2012 (46)….2013 (25)….2014 (29) 2015 so far (17 if my count is correct)
So it seems there have been two severe peaks with a valley from 2005-2010. Interesting.
We’re just hearing about it more. A player that got injured badly in, say 1976, wouldn’t have had the news on twitter and the internet five minutes later. And minor-leaguers who suffered career-ending injuries wouldn’t have merited any notice at all. We don’t have any sort of injury database that extends very far at all, but players have been getting injured all the time, and suffering career-ending injuries all the time. Look up Sandy Koufax and Dizzy Dean.
Yes.
I’m sure the Brewers would be happy to send Matt Garza their way.
Brewers’ fans are taking up a collection to buy him a bus ticket.
Yes we are. I’ve already donated… twice.
Did you get a reciept?
They told me it wasn’t tax deductible so I didn’t bother.
I was thinking more along the lines of requesting a refund.
Only if Garza is the one handing them out.
Ha ha ha. I give up, you win!
You will not be declining when another shoe drops.The Phillies don’t want the top three ,the SS and Two or three of the next Five Best Prospects would maybe , I said Maybe turn the Trick . LA want a Reasonably Priced All-Star , World Series Pitcher for the price of Gaza or a Loshe. not going to happen of coarse you can pay more and get less later.
The Dodgers don’t need hamels they have Kershaw and greinke, someone like Gallardo would do
Greinke won’t be there next year imo, he will opt out
Well then they can add a cueto level arm in FA with their money without trading a premium prospect
The Dodgers will pay him what he wants.
Guerrero and De Leon (the hot MIL pitcher who just moved up to AA) for Hamels. Olivera is on the way.
Ummmmmm….no. Guerrero’s contract makes a trade basically a rental so you are actually suggesting a MiLB pitcher for a TOR pitcher.
Guerrero has 2 1/2 years left on his contract. Why is that a rental?
He can elect to become a free agent if he’s traded. He’d be a rental.
Because his contract allows him to become a free agent if traded. Even if it didn’t that offer of one player with 1/3 season in MLB and a MiLB pitcher for an ace is too low to even be considered.
Depending on where he lands, Guerrero might not be compelled to exercise his opt-out clause after being traded. He wants playing time, and if he lands somewhere he can start, then he wouldn’t have an incentive to test the market, especially since who’s to say someone else will pay $7MM+/per for him.
Any team that trades for him would want a guarantee from him that he will not opt for FA or they are not going to give up much.
That’s fair and could be worked out. I think Guerrero has shown he has a Major League bat; there just isn’t a spot for him in LA to play every day.
Why would he give that? If he keeps hitting at a high level he can at least $60-$70 million deal in free agency. That blows away the $10 million he’s still owed.
And there you have just one more of many reasons why he won’t be traded anytime soon for anything of extreme value. You have the ridiculous opt-outs and guarantees in his contract. You have an extremely small sample size…28 games – 67 AB’s and yet some (not you) are claiming him to be MLB proven. No player is MLB proven with that small of a sample size. Major league pitchers and staffs spend countless hours looking for a batters weaknesses and if there is one they will exploit it. I am not saying that will happen, what I am saying is that anyone who has watched baseball a lot of years has seen it happen over and over. You cannot judge a player who has only had a cup of coffee in the show. I’ll use one of the Phillies players as an example. Darin Ruf after 66 at-bats in the show… .333/.395/.682/1.077….. Look familiar? I just don’t see any other team jumping at a chance to trade any players of value for him quite yet. It’s always fun to see someone come up and start raking… I remember when Ruf came up and posters on the Phillies site had already nicknamed him Babe Ruf… Look at him now….205/.259/.375/.631. It’s way too early in his career at the MLB level.
Darin Ruf doesn’t look familiar. No one has even tried to eat part of him. Apparently, he isn’t nearly as appetizing as Guerrero.
This trade isn’t any better just because it’s in a different thread.
Lol
I’m preparing myself for the Dodgers making splash and trading Julio Urias, Alex Guerrero, and other pieces to the Reds for Cueto. With the inevitability of Greinke opting out of his contract at the end of the season, the Dodgers will have to address the front of their rotation. Losing Ryu for the rest of the season only hastens the process, since they should be in win-now mode as well. Seager is off the table and Joc is on his way to becoming a star, so it stands that Urias is the most tradeable asset if the Dodgers want to reinforce the top of the rotation. Personally, I’d rather keep Urias and go after Cueto after the season, but the Dodgers should feel uneasy going into the playoffs with Kershaw, Greinke, and scrubs on the bump.
I would hope the front office is too smart to trade Urias for a rental.
We can still have a number 2 or 3 pitcher. An ace is a luxury.
I don’t think it would be a rental if we re-sign/extend Cueto. We’re going to have to replace Greinke after the season anyway. Since we have Kershaw locked up, everyone else would be a #2 pitcher. An ace is only a luxury for those who don’t have the Dodgers’ resources. An ace, or in the Dodgers’ case, two aces should be standard operating procedure.
Personally, I’ve been very hesitant to put Urias on the table, but that was when we had Kershaw, Greinke, and Ryu. With Greinke’s departure looming as well as the possibility that the best of Ryu is behind him, I wouldn’t be too heartbroken if we leveraged Urias’s potential for a bona fide frontline starter now.
Greinke will almost certainly opt out, but that doesn’t mean he is going anywhere. Given his intelligence and work ethic, I think he will be less likely to break down than other pitchers.
Desperation set in come July , Have to give quality to get quality and Hamels is Cheap Quality. Cub, dodgers GM know that and will react so, Both want to win so much they sell their mothers for a World Series Title, Esp. LA , Hollywood Hamels is the answer for Dodgers.
I actually have the red sox going after cueto and I believe the dodgers will make the move for hamels, either the dodgers or cubs will pull the trigger for him imo
I think the Yankees and Red Sox, especially, have the need for a frontline starter. Of course, the biggest hang up with the Sox is whether or not they’ll part with the top prospects on every team’s wish list. I’m basing my whole line of reasoning on the Dodgers putting Urias on the table, who would be the best pitching prospect involved in any talks.
Personally, I’d rather the Dodgers goes after Cueto over Hamels because Cueto is younger and would immediately slide into the right-handed ace role that will be vacated by Greinke come winter.
Big time For Cole, More for the Cubs because they have more !
Brett Anderson’s not a scrub … when he can pitch.
Why would they trade Urias? They seem high on the guy.
I think it comes down to the dodgers or the cubs for hamels, I believe the red sox will make a trade for cueto. I say the dodgers because they will need insurance incase greinke does opt out and I believe that he will
Cueto good but are Dodgers are going to over pay for a rental ?
They’d just sign him to an extension. Probably rather have him than Greinke going forward anyway.
I wonder if LAD would consider a trade w. the Mets for a #3/#4 pitcher? I know the Mets could use an upgrade from Cuddyer (ugh). Ethier would require a large chunk of his money paid…but a win/win for both clubs.
First of all, Ethier is not better than Cuddyer, and second, the Mets of all teams are not going to trade for someone to replace a $10m player.