A necessary search for quality pitching drove the Diamondbacks’ offseason acquisition of right-hander Shelby Miller, club chief baseball officer Tony La Russa said in defending the swap in comments to Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic. While the Arizona front office has obviously discussed that highly-scrutinized deal before, its ongoing relevance is heightened by recent rumblings of change in the baseball operations department.
Amidst reports of embarrassing missteps, Arizona’s upper management hasn’t yet committed to retaining La Russa, GM Dave Stewart, or other top baseball ops personnel. And a more recent report says that the ownership group has nixed several significant would-be actions by La Russa and company in recent weeks, suggesting at least some lack of alignment in the organization’s baseball decisionmaking.
The Miller deal, which followed the team’s out-of-nowhere signing of Zack Greinke, is Exhibit A in the detractors’ case against La Russa and Stewart. It is a powerful piece of evidence, because Arizona not only gave up solid and controllable MLB regular — Ender Inciarte — but parted with a quality pitching prospect in Aaron Blair and the just-drafted top overall pick in Dansby Swanson. In return, the D-Backs received a pitcher who didn’t really seem worth that package at the time, and who has gone on to suffer through an unimaginably bad 2016 season.
Because a transaction of that magnitude could end up altering a franchise’s trajectory, its success or failure carries significant weight in assessing front office performance. In that context, La Russa and Stewart have recently defended the swap — among other moves — as pressure mounts. The D-Backs currently hold the second-worst record in the National League, leading only the Braves — who are, of course, the rebuilding organization that sent Miller to Arizona.
La Russa, who was hired in May of 2014 to revamp the organization’s baseball operations, acknowledges that the Snakes’ performance to date doesn’t add to the defense of the front office decisionmaking. But he suggests that he doesn’t regret the move for Miller.
“Unfortunately for the Diamondbacks and our fans, our season this year does not give any answers in support of the moves that were made,” said La Russa. “Sometimes the results are not as immediate as you want. It’s not fantasy island; it’s the reality of playing the game. We are still very solid in favor of having Shelby as part of our organization.”
While Piecoro reports that Atlanta was actually concerned the overwhelming reaction favoring its side of the trade would lead Arizona to scuttle it, La Russa maintains that public perception of the industry viewpoint isn’t accurate. Other front offices, he suggests, were supportive. “At the same time that we were hearing the criticisms, I was also hearing from people that I knew personally saying, ‘Hey, man, we know where you were coming from. We were interested in Shelby, as well.”
That doesn’t mean that the package parted with for Miller hasn’t stung — especially with Swanson joining the Braves in time for their current trip to Chase Field. For Stewart, it was the loss of Swanson that constituted “the one piece of the whole deal that bothered me the most.”
La Russa generally concurred, but said Inciarte was as big a loss as Swanson. He explained: “Including Ender was just as difficult as including Dansby. He’s a really good player. But you don’t win without pitching.”
“Hey, man, we know where you were coming from. We were interested in Shelby, as well.” I feel like that’s not the entire quote.
It surely goes on to say “But yikes!! What in the world were you thinking giving up that much? LOL!”
As a Braves fan, I thank La Russa for his contributions.
Honestly….Inciarte is a product of Chase Field. He’s a pretty good player but his career avg at Chase is 40 points higher than his career batting avg as a whole. Blair has gotten absolutely bombed in the majors. Swanson has a chance at being a special player. If Miller ever regains his form this won’t be such a heavily skewed trade. He would need to be a CY Young caliber pitcher and AZ needs a WS title for this trade to make any sense though.
Agreed on Inciarte, but he does have value as a good defender in CF. The point is not that he isn’t good though, his value was at an all time high last winter, and while selling high is always a smart decision, one has to wonder what a Swanson, Inciarte, and Blair package could have fetched last winter, outside of Miller. I highly doubt this incapable front office was shopping that package around to other clubs.
Additionally, I don’t understand all the Blair hate at all. He’s a 24 year old controllable pitcher with a bright future. A couple starts in your rookie year aren’t a big enough sample size to draw concessionary data moving forward. He’s performed terribly no doubt, but he has the stuff to figure it out. Any 24 year old is a candidate for progression (no matter the position) as they get older, and if I’m Atlanta I’ll surely take my chances with a former top prospect to turn into some form of a contributing starting pitcher moving forward.
I’ll think you forgot Inciarte’s defense but it hurts too much.
I think you are underselling Inciarte’s offensive ability. Yes home avg with D-Backs was a lot higher than road, but his road avg in 2014 and 2015 was .280 not .220. A hamstring strain hurt him at the beginning of this season causing a slow start when he came back healthy. He’s currently hitting .348 in 36 games in the second half of 2016.
Lol, that’s mean !
Dodger fans thank him as well!
If La Russa honestly believes that giving up Enciarte was as big a deal as Swanson, he should be relieved of his job today. The only redeeming part of that package was that he sold high on Enciarte (though, of course, he probably could have gotten a lot more for him at the time).
Couldn’t agree with you on both points more. I love it when D’backs fans try to defend the trade. It isn’t that Miller pitched terribly this season, it’s that even if he had pitched to his career norms, the value that you gave up still wouldn’t match what you received in return. At the time this was bad, and that’s all that matters. That Miller has been terrible this year has compounded that mistake, but again, even if he pitched the way he is capable of, the value wasn’t there.
La Russa and Stewart remind me of a few general managers who were quickly out of a job – Towers and Amaro.
Evey statement to the media digs a deeper hole and further demonstrates they are either speaking strategically or incredibly stupid.
If Miller and Grienke had pitched to their career averages and they hadn’t lost Pollack and Peralta from the start, the D’backs could very well be in the hunt right now and nobody would taking about who should be fired. The D’backs had a limited window where they saw themselves being competitive and went for it. That their bets came up snake eyes isn’t an argument against making that bet, unless you are one of those people who argue that mid-market teams should strive for consistent mediocrity because it’s cheaper and less risky. Second guessing after the fact is the cheapest ante in the game.
Oh come on. Everyone knew this was a train wreck from the start. You can’t act like people are only judging in hindsight on this one.
I think BlueSkyL:A has a point. While I agree the trade was a train wreck AND pretty much everyone called it a bad trade for AZ, *IF* the D-Backs were having a great season, nobody would care because that at the end of the day people *usually* only look at W-L record and it would be forgotten.
But I agree, Stewart and LaRussa have done a terrible job would be very surprised if they are both around next year.
While yes, people look at W-L record AZ having a good year would have taken a lot of “IFs”. I count four in BlueSky’s post, and those expecting all four to play to the same level as last year were inevitably going to be mistaken. Every year progression, regression, and injuries occurs, and the larger the number of candidates (in this case “ifs”) the more likely those three are going to occur.
If the object of the game isn’t winning games, then what the heck is the object?
Not the “same level as last year.” Read again for what I actually said, it might lead to a more on-point response.
A team’s W-L record is the ONLY thing that matters. That is the ONLY thing that determines if you get into the playoffs or not. The rest is fun and all, but virtually meaningless compared to a team’s W-L record for determining a successful season. Who cares how well they play if they don’t win? This is the big leagues, not everyone gets a participation trophy.
Amen, brother. It’s good to know someone still understands that success in this game is measured by actual winning, not the outcome of some paper cost-benefit analysis risk management exercise. This is what happens when the bean counters take over the shop, they try to make everyone forget why they come to work every day.
In fairness, everyone “knew” a couple of years back that the Royals ruined themselves and set up the Rays for years with the James Shields trade. That was 2 WS appearances ago. and the Rays are hardly set up right now No one KNOWS what is going to happen with any trade. People just guess and sometimes they get it right.
@blueskyLA the D’backs could have even extended their window by simply staying pat in this deal. Swanson is at the big league level right now, though he is undoubtedly rushed IMHO. It’s an evaluation mistake on behalf of a front office that has continually made poor decision after poor decision. W/O getting into the D’backs other moves too much (lord knows I’d love to, as there’s a lot to pick from), the argument consistently laid out by D’backs fans, though not necessarily you, is that “well Swanson wasn’t even in the big leagues!” “Neither was Blair!” “They have no value!!” It’s a completely baseless argument as every player, including minor leaguers, and especially top prospects, have value throughout the league. Just because a player hasn’t contributed at the major league level doesn’t mean he can’t be traded for one who has (Chapman, Miller, etc.). The issue here is the value in terms of cost effectiveness, years of control, potential, and already established floor didn’t/doesn’t/won’t make the package the D’backs sent to the Braves ever make sense. I truly do believe, though this is purely my speculation, if they had discussed this package of players with other clubs, they could have done better than Miller, and established #2-#3. Even if Miller pitched to career average numbers, they’d have given up too much.
I am not for one second trying to evaluate whether the D’Backs gave up “too much” in the Miller trade. That’s a totally abstract discussion that is only potentially meaningful with the benefit of hindsight, and it’s also only a useful debate if you believe the object of the game is to win trades instead of pennants. Unfortunately a that’s where a lot of the discussion of baseball has gone, to a place where the total point of the game is abstracted out any meaningful existence.
Getting back to this case, it’s all well and good for you to say that the D’Backs could have extended their competition window by doing nothing, but I don’t see it. The offensive core of this team is not going to be under team control for much longer. and they aren’t going to have the revenue wherewithal to keep them, so management saw the opportunity as being now. I have no argument with them taking the risks they took, knowing that a mid-market team is going to have far more limited options than the larger-market teams. As a fan I would much rather see team owners take a risk and fail than go the “cost effective” route and never give the fans the satisfaction of a championship.
No one is saying the D-Backs should go the cost effective route. They should just stop drafting poorly,making terrible trades, and overpaying free agents
You are seriously defending the worst GM baseball has seen in some time just because you like to take a shot at teams that are run smart. It’s pretty funny. I guess let your reputation go down with Dave Stewart.
The comment I was responding to did indeed use that exact term to make precisely that argument. So maybe you should have let him reply. As for the insults, I won’t dignify them with a response.
Is there a D’backs fan who wants Blair back? He has been an absolute washout, just like Miller. Blair has an ERA of 7.99. Atlanta gave him a shot and he failed miserably…just as miserably as Miller. Inciarte lost his starting job, was hitting about .242 and has had injury problems that sidelined him for part of the season. He has rebounded somewhat to a .270 BtAvg recently, but he certainly hasn’t had the season commenters on these sites raved he would have. Swanson is off to a nice start, promoted to the bigs only because Atlanta traded away all their infielders to give him some playing time. So far, he looks like a nice player, but remember, his greatest asset according to evaluators was that he is a clubhouse leader, no power, not a big RBI guy, but most likely able to stick at SS. Remove the myth that all number one draft picks are sure fire Hall of Famers, and realistically evaluate Swanson and he was a safe pick at number one in the draft on a down year for draft picks. I’m not saying any of the four players involved in this trade are bums, but I am saying that the jury is still out on evaluating this trade. Miller has delivered 5 out of 7 quality starts in his recent Triple A performance. He’s been a nightmare this year, but I for one am willing to wait to pass judgment on the trade for another year or two. I’m still hearing the same overhype that accompanied the trade initially. No one is looking at how all four players have actually performed so far.
As someone who’s always thought the love for Enciarte is misguided (I noted when he was a popular target in trade rumors even before the Miller deal that he’d be a likely non-tender candidate by the last year he’s under team control), this was still an undeniably stupid trade by the Diamondbacks.
They wanted another top of the rotation pitcher to pair with Greinke. When they couldn’t get one, they inexplicably convinced themselves that Miller was one, though there is no way in which he could reasonably be called one, or expected to become one. They put together a trade package designed to land a co-ace and instead got a guy who, even before he cratered this year, was decidedly not that.
Inciarte could hit .240 and still have value because of defense.
Blair has like what, 50 IP? Don’t call him a bust yet
Swanson is, and was always, the most valuable player in the deal.
Miller was due to regress. Everyone who wasn’t blinded by bias saw this rather simply.
Stewart has been an absolutely terrible GM, regardless of how the D’Backs are. He’d still be an idiot if the D’Backs were in the wild card race right now. Miller isn’t that good, Greinke is still on a massive deal by a mid-market team. He gave up a top 100 prospect for like 15m in salary relief, and gave up another decent prospect for Aaron Hill’s contract.
.240 with good defense would be good? You have LOW expectations. Yes 50 innings of getting your head beat in is RED flag. Don’t make excuses them
Not if its Kevin kiermaier or Kevin pillar. There defense far outweighs their offensive contribution
Wait a minute. You’re citing Miller’s AAA performance as proof of something positive while calling Blair’s 11 major league starts proof that he is a “washout”? Selective reasoning, huh?
I like how you crap on the Braves players to try and justify your side of the deal. Blair has 5 yrs to figure everything out. Inciarte is hitting .348 in last 36 games, with GG defense in CF. Swanson just made the bigs at 22, already has 2 multi-hit games and just started his 6 yrs of control. The D-Backs were the clear sucker in the trade, even if Miller gets back to the all star pitcher he was last year.
Another completely misguided comment. Blair is fine people. He’s still a prospect and the Braves went ahead and gave him a shot, probably before he was ready, because they have NOBODY worth starting in his stead. It doesn’t hurt to send him up, let him fail, and undercover weaknesses at the Major League level. He’s DEVELOPING. Young starters are not overnight successes people. Blair is an unfinished player and to want to send him back based on a cup of coffee would be absurd. That sounds like a move the Diamondbacks’ front office would make …
I think there should be 6 fewer teams in MLB, and the Diamondbacks are at the top of my list to go. I feel for Diamondbacks fans, but what a sorry organization. If it were up to me, the Diamondbacks, Marlins, Rays, Rockies, Angels and Padres would be gone.
The Rockies have a top 10 logo and color scheme and mascot and a beautiful park. If they ever resolve the air problem it should be a great franchise.
Angels have a valuable market.
Well if it were up to me, the Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Yankees, Mets, and Cubs would be gone to make payrolls more fairly distributed. I guess it is a good thing that neither of us is in charge.
And four of the six are in western divisions. I think what we have here is a time zone issue.
Drink another one Tony! U and Dave are clueless. Clowns of MLB. Please trade w the Reds. (Although reds could prob screw it up)
Man that would be the irresistible force meeting the immovable object, wouldn’t it? Or maybe more appropriately, the resistible force meeting the movable object.
I just didn’t understand the trade because I thought with Grienke and Corbin at the top of the rotation with Ray, Bradley and De La Rosa at the other 3 that was enough. You also had Blair & Shipley set to debut sometime. I thought the D-Backs had enough pitching to compete that Miller wasn’t needed.
La Russa doth protest too much, methinks.
Atlanta should have an excellent farm after all these years of getting good draft picks, whether by standings at season end or good trades.
Just having a good farm is meaningless. The key will be bringing in the harvest like the Royals and possibly the Cubs (pending a WS win) instead of giving it away or letting it rot like the Astros seem to be doing.
Letting it rot? Hahaha
This team outperformedlast year largely due to pitching. They are in a great spot for the future.
Damn, he must be drinking stupid juice.
LaRussa is a hall of fame manager. Stewart was a dominant pitcher. Coaching and playing don’t always lead to the ability to assemble a competitive baseball team. AZ ownership should simply own-up and clean out the front office.
Ownership might be the issue. Perhaps they were told they had the freedom to do as they wish when ownership intended to have final say.
I was thinking that it was going to be a special kind of entertaining with La Russa and Stewart in charge. They have not disappointed.
Tony La Russa defended Mark Mc Guire, Enought said, the Guy has NO CREITABILTY !
Without singling anyone out, LaRussa has more baseball knowledge than anyone here with a few WS rings to prove it.
I’m not sure what’s the point of attacking him. Reviewing your comments before posting might be a good idea.
Shelby Miller entered the season with 3.030 days of service time, and he was sent to the minors on July 14th. Since it’s been 30 days after he was sent down, will Shelby Miller not accrue enough service time to get 4.000, thus giving the Diamondbacks another year of team control?
You can put a tuxedo on a pile of crap and it’s still a pile of crap