Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports argues that the Blue Jays may have misread the market for power bats this winter. In the case of Toronto, he suggests, the team ought to have been more patient with Edwin Encarnacion. By moving quickly to give a three-year deal to Kendrys Morales after Encarnacion declined to take the team’s early-offseason offer, the Jays may have spent much more than necessary to land a player of Morales’s quality while also tying their hands on Encarnacion, who ended up signing for one year and $20MM less than Toronto had reportedly offered.
- The Mets, too, might have erred in their approach on Jay Bruce. He now seems a superfluous piece after the re-signing of Yoenis Cespedes, and Rosenthal says that he expects New York will need to pay down part of Bruce’s $13MM salary to deal him. The team picked up that option in large part to insure against the loss of Cespedes; a team source notes that insurance “doesn’t come for free,” and Rosenthal notes that the decision may have improved their bargaining position with their star free agent. But perhaps a greater recognition of the flood of sluggers would have led the team to choose an alternate path to protecting itself in the event of a departure of Cespedes.
- As they continue to look to bolster their lineup, the Athletics are showing interest in free-agent third baseman Trevor Plouffe, per Rosenthal. He’d presumably be a value-focused addition to the overall mix at third and first base. Of course, Oakland is also said to be looking at Mark Trumbo, so it seems the organization is still casting a fairly wide net.
- While there has been a suggestion that the Dodgers won’t form a package around Jose De Leon to pry Brian Dozier from the Twins, preferring instead to pursue a one-for-one deal, Rosenthal writes that Los Angeles is “willing to include other prospects” to get something done. Of course, it could well be that the issue isn’t so much the inclusion of some other pre-MLB players — surely, the Dodgers could find some expendable pieces to part with — so much as the question whether any are seen by Minnesota as adding significant value.
- Jon Heyman of Fan Rag provides a lengthy list of the winners and losers in the open-market action to date, though that can still change with a lot of free agents left and perhaps some trades still to be swung. As for some of those still-unsigned open-market players, Heyman provides a few notes. Jose Bautista’s representatives “circled back” to the Orioles to gauge interest, but it still seems that Baltimore isn’t interested. And the Blue Jays “do not seem anxious” to strike a deal with the veteran. Meanwhile, the O’s remain involved on Trumbo.
- Heyman further notes that there remains robust demand for left-handed relievers. He lists the Mets, Yankees, Indians, and Blue Jays as teams still looking at southpaws. Jerry Blevins, Boone Logan, Travis Wood, and J.P. Howell are among the established left-handed options that remain available.
- It’s unlikely that the Rangers will bring back veteran righty Colby Lewis, as Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reports. Though “the door’s open,” per GM Jon Daniels, he adds that he doesn’t “foresee anything happening at this point” with Lewis. Texas would be interested only in a minor-league arrangement, it seems, due in part to questions over Lewis’s health outlook.
jdgoat
What if they read the market right though and EE signs elsewhere and by the time we find out the other options are gone and we’re stuck with nothing? I’m totally fine with them playing it safe. It was obvious that EE thought he was going to get more money and the front office rightly moved on
Travis’ Wood
I keep seeing this argument and it just makes no sense. Have you seen the free agent market this year? There’s no chance every slugger would’ve signed before Edwin did, there was no reason to rush to sign a bad player like Morales. There’s so many DH types available and most are gonna be bargains over the next few weeks. Terrible job by the Jays FO, it’s honestly fairly embarrassing.
jdgoat
I’d rather have a switch hitting morales instead of Trumbo, Carter, and Napoli. I’d maybe have Alvarez since he’d be cheaper. And let’s not forget that Morales is coming off some good years in KC in a brutal ballpark for hitters. His home run total will almost certainly go up in Toronto
PedroM
Lets also remember he hit 216 the year before and runs slower than a drunken turtle.
A'sfaninUK
We can’t remember things that never happened.
He hit .218 in 2014 and .290 in 2015.
Stop lying.
GareBear
Let’s not forget that was the year he was unable to participate in spring training and only played half a season because of the qualifying offer being attached to him. As a Royals fan I will admit that Morales is streaky but he is more often great than terrible.
hojostache
I am hopeful that, “runs slower than a drunken turtle” can become a legit metric that is used widely.
chesteraarthur
I don’t think moving on was an issue. I think giving Morales that contract was though.
ernestofigueroa87
“a bad player like Morales.”
Stop it!
Travis’ Wood
Stop what? He’s a bad player.
birdinblue
Um… No he actually isn’t.
Per Fangraphs:
fangraphs.com/blogs/2016-hitter-contact-quality-re…
Next comes the DH with the most misleading traditional 2016 statistics, Kendrys Morales. Look at the differences between his Unadjusted and Adjusted Contact Scores: on fly balls (151 vs. 217), liners (83 vs. 116), grounders (86 vs. 137) and overall (109 vs. 158). OK, he’s slow, so the grounder difference might be a little misleading, but he was both hamstrung by his home park and just plain unlucky in 2016. The Blue Jays took note of this, and quickly pounced on him as a free agent. My prediction: a healthy Morales outperforms both Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion, for far less money, in 2017.
Yes. yes it is just a prediction, but these are valid points that cannot be ignored. You all need to get over Edwin.
GareBear
He hit 30 home runs in one of the 10 most pitcher friendly parks in the game and has been a good hitter for the past 2 years. I think he will be great in your ballpark for at least the first year or two of the deal.
chesteraarthur
He’s a 34 yr old dh who had a 110 wRC+ and 0.7 war. That’s not a very good player
Travis’ Wood
What is wrong with people on this site? People actually think Morales is good? Wtf! He’s put up more than 2 fWAR ONCE in his entire career! The dude is terrible at baseball and will come nowhere near to putting up numbers like Edwin or Bautista. Man, I thought people on here were smarter than this.
Travis’ Wood
Thank you. For some reason people here think of you can hit a little bit you’re a good player. Morales is a bad player, period. He’s put up more than 2 WAR once in his entire career.
filthyrich
Kendrys Morales is a professional hitter. Poor man’s Victor Martinez.
Kendrys will turn 34 late in the season. Not ancient in DH years. He’ll sometimes play 1B against LHP I would imagine. Giving the others a chance to rest their legs at DH sometimes. I could be wrong, but it just fits so right. Good fielding first basemen is a luxury. Part time 1B with below average D is not going to be that harmful. These infielders will get him the ball, he doesn’t have to stretch or dig or do anything fancy, just catch the easy ones 20-40 times a year.
26 year old MVP candidate.
27 year old bonehead champion.
28 year old recovery- missed season
29 year old finding the rhythm again
30 year old nearly .800 OPS in Safeco?!! he’s back
31 year old contract mishap, misses first half of year, struggles to find rhythm
32 year old back to .800 OPS again
33 year old almost .800
34 year old season moving to a hitter’s park finally.
i’ll predict .800 OPS easy. 100 RBI easy. cheap bat for the heart of the order. perfect 4/5 hitter.
Victor Martinez missed his 33 year old season, took a year to find his rhythm, but was back to HOF caliber by 35 year old. battled injuries at 36 and struggled. back to a force at 37.
Kendrys can put up numbers like last year for the life of the contract, but might even have a higher ceiling in this environment. Even maintaining a poor man’s Victor type stat line would be worth the cost. He has always hit with regular at bats. Bad OBP but high slugging and gets runs driven in. Morales could struggle with injuries again moving to turf, but his periods of lost time have been pretty rare cases. Not a Tulo type reputation, but he is getting older and moving to turf. Still less question marks than the non-Edwin options. Bang per buck, the Kendrys contract looks like a winner.
jdubs346
Man, he’s a DH, WAR is an irrelevant stat, he doesn’t play defense..
bringbackthespos
Awesome post! AGREE!
888sports
I agree wih this on all levels
patborders92
Morales was the only true DH available at least all the other 1B/DH types could play 1B. David Ortiz never signed a 3 yr deal, the yearly salary isn’t a joke but the length is.
This FO is kind of a joke, they’re not really going for it and there not really rebuilding.
The Morning After Pillar
This ‘joke’ of a front office didn’t sign Price last offseason and instead signed two hugely productive starters in Happ and Estrada. They acquired Liriano and 2 prospects for Drew Hutchison. Picked up Grilli and Benoit to shore up the bullpen in season for very little. They’ve began stocking up a farm system that was left bare when they took over. Sure they haven’t made huge, flashy moves but they have been making good moves
PedroM
Yes…And Pillar will surely win the batting title this year. The team they took over made it to the ALC. By the time Shapiro and Atkins get thru the Jays will be perennial basement dwellers.
A'sfaninUK
David Price threw 230 innings of 4.5 WAR ball last year, he’s an ace. They should have signed him on top of Happ & Estrada and traded Stroman.
Brixton
Giving 210M to David Price is a bad idea no matter how the first season of the deal went.
birdinblue
@PedroM People that make predictions like this should never be taken seriously. You just cannot predict Baseball. Do us a favor, and just stop. Thank you.
patborders92
Happ and Estrada were signed by Luvullo (AA’s man) before Atkins was hired. I don’t understand what the love affair with those prospects are, lots of prospects are hyped and I can’t imagine a team would give away two guys in a salary dump they saw a future in (think Brett Wallace), Hutch might be the best guy in that deal yet.
freddraper
The team they took over being AA’s team right? Nope. It was AA’s team MINUS Mark B, MINUS Price, MINUS the two MLB ready prospects AA gave up to get Price.
In other words, substantially weaker, yet they still managed to get back to the ALCS again.
bringbackthespos
Oh God please no. 4.5 in his first year, sure to go down every year after, while his salary stays at 30 mil. Your comment has to be a joke?
jdgoat
You do understand its Shapiro pulling the strings. He definitely is the reason that happ and Estrada are on the Jays. An interim GM doesn’t have enough power to give two pitchers a combined 50 million dollars. You are routinely wrong in your bashing of the front office, and it’s embarrassing to blue Jays fans
bronxbombers
Yes. It you’re adding Sanchez having a career year which was a prospect of AA also
justinept
This is their job. They’re paid not just to find talent, but to negotiate contracts with that talent – and doing that requires market research. It requires that they gauge the market and determine what that market thinks the player is worth – and make educated guesses as to how much that player will receive in FA.
It’s not 20/20 hindsight to say the Jays misread the market. They did. They’d be better off had they just waited for EE. Morales is an ok option, but there are still players on the market that offer what Morales does. Why were they so afraid of losing him that they turned the page on EE so fast?
Joe Shlabotnik
Morales was about the 6th best option as well. Jays screwed the pooch.
jaysfan77
I agree, they offered him 80 million, you either want to play in Toronto or you don’t, Toronto wasn’t going to be used as a bargaining chip and then be left with nothing, they’re not fools. I have heard that Morales and Gurriel shared the same agency, and that by guaranteeing Morales the third year they were able to sign Gurriel which is a nice piece of upper minors depth which they’re lacking.
jdubs346
It is embarrassing how Shapiro and Atkins have treated blue jay free agents, absolutely embarrassing
filthyrich
st louis cardinals blueprint right there. they hated losing pujols, but they don’t mind the regular contender status.
i saw the morales signing as a key piece to gurriel signing. it feels like there will be a better comfort level for gurriel in the majors than in milb. give him six weeks max. maybe even straight out of spring training. seems like a better shot than using upton against RHP.
notagain27
All good points. Perhaps both the Blue Jays front office and Encarnation and his people are all to blame. Apparently if what we read is true where Blue Jays offered Edwin 4 years for 80 million and was turned down, then the Blue Jays by quickly snapping up Morales must have also thought Edwin’s market was going to be higher. The only fault I can find with the Blue Jays quickly signing Morales is they didn’t take the money they saved not signing Encarnation to bolster up their pitching.
patborders92
The offence is the bigger issue, they let our most productive guys go, this team is filled with low obp guys and big strikeouts
mcconaugheyslincoln
Exactly Pat Borders, and for some reason people on here think Rasmus is a good grab, SMH
infieldflyrule
We already did the Rasmus whiff experience. No thanks.
birdinblue
We all love home runs. But as can be shown in our team’s previous years, it’s just not working.
We need more contact hitters, which Morales and Pearce provide. I’d love to have Bautista back on a 1 year deal, but I am happy to see Edwin go. Cheer for the Jersey, not the Players.
bringbackthespos
Love this comment. I’m with you 100%! And we’re not done, remember that.
patborders92
Why would teams pitch to Donaldson this year? Morales is a lower obp guy, walk JD and go strike out Morales.
rmwrmwrmw
I know this is an emotional reaction and I know it’s a business and I know about the age and history issues and fit issues with Encarnacion and Bautista and the Blue Jays.
But I am a fan ( short for fanatic) of the Jays sand yes I attended the first game in 1977 and have the ticket stubs to prove it.
I am disgusted at how Bautista and Encarnacion have been treated by the Jays after all they have done for the team.
skip 2
Jays threw that offer out to EE very early for a reason and pulled it back quick! Cause they knew he wasn’t going to sign but then they can say o well we tried to sign him!
So with that said almost every player in EE shoes is going to turn that offer down and test the market. Signing Morales that and pulling that over back that quick only means they moved on that fast period!
skip 2
^^^sorry guys I was typing to fast and made a few errors I’m sure u guys get what I’m saying 🙂
Momus
That’s just lunacy skip. You’re saying that the Blue Jays presented an offer to make Encarnacion one of the 10 highest paid 1B/DH players in history gambling that he would turn it down. First of all, if they were counting on him turning it down what were they going to do if he accepted? Secondly, it cannot be overstated that the Blue Jays offer was the highest offer Encarnacion got. By a huge margin!
The Jays and EE (and his agent) all misread the market and expected someone would come in with an offer over $100M and acted accordingly. I hate the fact that we lost EE but i can’t blame him or the Toronto front office for what happened. By the time Encarnacion was considering offers in the Blue Jays price range they had largely taken themselves out of the market with other signings. It sucks, but honestly no-one involved is really to blame here. If the Jays had waited on EE and the market had gone insane for sluggers like it did for RPs there would be fans screaming “Why did the Jays let their whole off-season slip away waiting for Encarnacion?”
terrymesmer
Ken Rosenthal’s optometry report is in: his hindsight is a keen 20/20!
mcconaugheyslincoln
Lol Terry I was thinking the same thing. How late was he to the party?
lesterdnightfly
Nicely done.
Ken Rosenthal just got O’Brien-ed.
houseoflords44
Maybe the Blue Jays should’ve waited a little longer on Encarnacion, but I don’t blame them for not waiting the amount of time it took Encarnacion to sign. The Jays were in a tough spot. They offered Encarnacion a contract that was more than fair. Encarnacion & his reps decided against taking it because they were convinced that he could get a 5 year, $125 million contract. So if you are the Jays, you have the choice of waiting for Encarnacion to sign & risk losing your back up plan if he signs elsewhere. The Jays may have gotten the vibe from Encarnacion’s camp that they already had a 5 year deal on the table. The decided to be proactive and sign 2 players to fill the void. Sure Morales isn’t going to hit the home runs that Encarnacion did, but he is going to be productive. He’s a good hitter & is going to a hitters park & a division that is hitter friendly. Pierce will contribute. I’m more concerned with the Blue Jays bullpen & outfield than I am about Morales & Pierce.
KCFaninPA
And they get a supplemental draft pick.
patborders92
And they loose about $70 M in gate revenue from taking an attendance of 3.2M back to 1.5M
Taejonguy
While I agree that not signing EE sucks… this is an over reach. Attendance may suffer a bit if they don’t win games but if they do stay in the Wildcard race it won’t be a large drop.
Unless that 1.5 million in attendance are all Edwin’s friends and that is why he ask Cleveland for the attendance bonus- he knew they were all coming with him!
patborders92
Is it though? Before the past two years the jays were a sub 500 team for decades and ppl didn’t show up. Fans were desperate for a winner and they only showed up when they won. This team has taken a big step back, it’s tough to think that they’ll compete for a playoff spot as currently constructed. I think it’s back to $6 stub hub tix
lesterdnightfly
patborders92:
Sounds like you won’t be attending any of their games.
Too bad, a $6 ticket could get you close enough to shout at the GM throughout the game.
strostro
Morales doesn’t get rave reviews at 1B
layventsky
He also has not drawn rave reviews from PedroM regarding his baserunning abilities.
bigpapi4never
I really wish there was an up vote option on mobile
birdinblue
He was signed as a DH. He won’t be playing on the field.
mcdusty31
He gets rave reviews for his defense at DH
jzuts5
With all the outfielders still available I think the Phillies are in a great position to grab someone cheaply. Either they are gonna trade for Jay Bruce or sign Brandon Moss or Michael Saunders. This market is very slow and these guys look like they will have to settle for a one year deal
Brixton
I like defense, and all those hitters are the kind we should stay away from
jzuts5
Not disagreeing with you but they do need some pop from the left side. Herrera is their only true left handed batter. Not including the switch hitters.
comebacktrail28
White Sox should Trade Robertson for Bruce and prospects
lesterdnightfly
The Jay Bruce trade was a bad one for Sandy Alderson. He gave up a promising middle infielder for a wishful playoff boost that never happened.
Now he’s stuck with an expensive, declining, one-position guy who stank in NY, and who doesn’t get rave reviews for his defense in OF. That, or he can only get pennies on the dollar in a trade.
Other GMs can see this, so Bruce’s trade value now is about that of an AAAA player or a TJ/TOS rehab pitcher. Anything more in return would require the penurious Mets to swallow a load of cash.
I know it’s hindsight to knock this deal, but I didn’t like it at the time it happened. The Mets lost this bet.
BrodiesHairisGreezy!
Agree with you. One of many by the genius Sandy. His problem is he thinks he is smarter than everyone else. Dilson Herrera would’ve fit in real well in this lineup (leading off?)
theruns
Where would Dilson play? You’ve got Walker there now, next year when Rosario is up you slide Cabrera over to 2B. Those are both clearly better options, and that doesn’t even consider the fact that you still have Reyes who can play 2B, as can Flores and Cecchini.
Cecchini clearly outperformed Dilson last year while they were on the same team, it wasn’t even close. Cecchini will be the far better defender when he moves to 2B full time, Dilson is only average, maybe a tick below that.
I actually like Dilson, he has a major league set of wrists and plus bat speed. He’ll hit in that little bandbox he’ll play in and has a good chance to be a solid major league player. There was just nowhere for him to play in New York and he really did have a miserable season last year. He looked bad at the plate and his shoulder was injured although they couldn’t find an injury. (#metsmedicalstaff)
Also hurting his cause is that he is very limited defensively. He can only play 2B he does not throw well enough to play anywhere on the left side of the dirt.
Was not a fan of the Bruce trade either, although I understood why they did it. Just don’t think much of Bruce as a player although to be fair the only time I got to watch him play everyday he went like 6 for 100.
Once the market clears up somebody will need what Bruce can do and hopefully they’ll get something comparable to Dilson in return and move on with their lives.
BrodiesHairisGreezy!
Cecchini cant FIELD!!! He makes over 30 errors everywhere he plays. In addition, he seemed to perform very well at Las Vegas where they all did. The Mets let Murphy go with the intention of bringing on Dilson (really with intentionof saving $$$$). I believe Walker fell into their laps (Niese for Walker, You’ve gotta be kidding) and they ran with it. Bruce is and will be an albatross. He cant field, cant run and hits in streaks…Jeremy Burnitz is back!
theruns
I have seen them both play quite a bit, Cecchini is clearly a better defender and it’s not even close.
You cannot use errors as a defensive gauge for minor league players, especially shortstops. For starters, some of the fields they play on are less than ideal in terms of playing condition.
As somebody who sits in the press box for quite a few minor league games, I can also tell you the official scoring is dubious, at best. It’s probably the last way to want to judge a shortstop…. you have to have eyes on them, it’s the only way.
Most of Cecchini’s errors come from the age old issue of young players rushing throws, and forcing plays that aren’t there. A vast majority of his errors were these types of throwing errors. He has the tools (arm strength, range, athleticism) to be an average defender at SS if he irons out those issues. If he doesn’t he will be a plus defender at 3B or 2B.
Dilson has limited range and cannot throw well, he is anchored at 2B which decreases his value.
Also Cecchini was not a Vegas product, he hit .317 with an .819 OPS as a 21 year old in hitter neutral AA so there’s that.
Also, why didn’t Dilson tear it up in Vegas? He’s the same age as Cecchini, who outplayed him in every way. That counts for something.
How they got Walker is irrelevant, the bottom line is that he’s their 2B and he’s better at baseball than Dilson right now.
And again, when Rosario comes up (that will be soon) it pushes Cabrera to 2B which is probably his best position.
There was just nowhere for him to play, it happens.
BrodiesHairisGreezy!
Using your point about the quality of the fields in Minor League stadiums, how come other defenders in AA and AAA aren’t getting the same errors as Cecchini? Your argument that his errors are throwing errors doesn’t wash with me either. If he cant throw down there, why will he ever be able to throw up (not “Throw Up”) here?
theruns
The field issues are mostly at the lower levels.
His issues are indeed throwing, rushing, aiming, forcing plays, not setting his feet properly…. all the things a young SS does when the game hasn’t slowed down for him yet. It is very common among young SS and it’s almost always throwing.
It’s why a 19 year old Derek Jeter made 21 errors in his first season of rookie ball. (only 57 games played…)
He followed that up by making 57 errors in his first full season of low A ball.
He had 29 errors in 123 games his last season in AAA.
The first time I saw Reyes play in A ball he made 12 errors in like a month.
It happens all the time with younger players who are playing SS every day at 19, 20 years old.
The only thing you hope is that it doesn’t become mental which is a whole other issue.
hojostache
They definitely tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. It was obvious when they made the trade, then Bruce stunk for 90% of his time with the Mets, and now…..
At least the Mets can hold onto him and he has a pretty good shot at producing. He is one dimensional, but if he bats well enough in NY (he showed glimpses at the end of 2016), then maybe partway through the season they can move him for a decent prospect by paying a portion of his already pro-rated salary.
I love Sandy…but getting Bruce was a mistake before the ink even dried on the paperwork.
yankees500
The a’s has all those prospects come up at the end of last year with Olson, Nunez, Healey, Wendel and pinder. How much more offense do they need?
A'sfaninUK
With the exception of maybe Healy, literally none of those guys should be counted on 2017.
seamaholic 2
Every team in baseball has “prospects” like that. Except for Healy, they all stink.
mike156
EE and Toronto were both operating under the same presumption–that there would be a higher offer out there for EE. At the time, it was a very reasonable assumption, Look at the early price-tags quoted for several sluggers who aren’t getting nearly what they want. The market is up for relief pitching and real position players, and down for the heavy lumber guys. But, in their haste to sign Morales, I wonder if Toronto wasn’t signaling something else–that they really didn’t want Bautista at all, and that they weren’t all that disappointed when EE turned them down, There may be a dynamic in the FO that we aren’t seeing–a “we tried it with these two guys, let’s go in another, less expensive direction”
Michael Macaulay-Birks
Not worth 5/125 for Encarcion IMO, and I guess Bautista is still waiting for his 5/150….have fun in Miami or Oakland
reflect
The problem with Rosenthals argument is that he just throws all the non-Encarnacion hitters into one bucket like if you just pull them out of a hat and they are all guaranteed to put up identical numbers.
But that’s not how it works, some guys have better offensive peripherals, some guys have better decline curves. Rosenthal completely ignores the possibility that perhaps Morales is simply better than all the other DH-types available (again, besides Edwin).
Just because all the players play identical positions doesn’t mean they have identical merits and values.
A'sfaninUK
A’s need to stay far, far away from Plouffe, who doesn’t have the bat they need.
drcrawdad2009
I suspect the Yanks won’t sign a lefty reliever for more than one year.
mcdusty31
I can understand where the Blue Jays fan base is upset but from where I sit Shapiro/Atkins may be on to something…obviously going from one season where you’re going all in and trading for Price/Tulo to the next season where you’re letting Price walk in free agency and even letting beloved franchise players leave the next offseason after that is frustrating…in my opinion the Blue Jays FO is making the right call for the future…when you hang on to players past their primes and to boot they have contracts that are hindering your ability to spend money elsewhere, you can end up falling into obscurity for a long time…they went all in and they didn’t win a World Series but realistically there’s no way that Price ends up being productive throughout that entire 210 million dollar contract…EE is getting up there and Batista is already past his prime…not saying Morales is the better option but for a shorter term deal I would have to say it makes sense…Shapiro/Atkins did a pretty good job in Cleveland considering their financial restrictions but even teams with big payrolls have put themselves into bad spots by hanging on to guys too long or signing players to huge contracts that there is clearly no way a player can live up to for the duration…if they can nail down their scouting and development over the next few years and fill their ranks with young controllable talent they will put themselves in a good spot to spend some money intelligently to fill in the blanks as necessary
jaysfan77
Spot on.
mstrchef13
It appears, perhaps, that Bautista’s reputation as a raging d-bag has soured teams on bringing him on. He would be a perfect fit with the Orioles, were it not for the fact that Jones and O’Day despise him and Showalter would never consent to bringing in someone that would disrupt the clubhouse. Karma, baby.
hojostache
It’s bad when the FO is open about not wanting him because “the fans” dislike him. It’s obvious that the players dont like him either. He’s not good enough for a team to put up with such a malcontent.
RyanR
He sure thinks he’s worth it. Hahahaha
RyanR
Bautista himself still thinks he’s worth it. Hahah
lesterdnightfly
But do you think he thinks he’s worth it?
neo
Rosenthal also reports that Theo Epstein was a good hire for the Cubs and that there are at least several teams still kicking themselves for passing on Trout when they had the chance to draft him.
reflect
This pretty much sums it up, lmao
zwmartin
Quick reminder: Shapiro has won one division title in 15 years.
jakem59
He won two in Cleveland. He also had to contend in arguably the toughest division during his time there. Kansas City, Detroit, Minnesota & Chicago all saw dominate stretches in those 15 years.
BooJays33
AL CENTRAL = toughest division!? …umm I’m going to respectfully disagree with you there.
jayswethenorth
In regards to EE, both Jays FO and Encarnacion’s agent misread the market. Both have a little to blame, but if Edwin really wanted back to Toronto, there was very good offer on the table.
We knew almost for sure, that EE and JB weren’t coming back. And i still think JB is not coming, only if there is a flea market discount, our front office would make a move for him.
I like what OF did last year, letting go Price, bring Happ and re-sign Estrada. Then Grill and Benoit. So let’s just wait and see what they have planned.
I Still would like to see Brandon Moss, Melky Cabrera, Travis Woods and yes Bautista. But lets see what is planned. Get a solution for the terrible extension of Smoak.
This is just my opinion.
Lovetron
Love the interest in Plouffe.. if Healy struggles defensively we can move him to 1B and finally cut ties with the new Daric Barton (Alonso). I’d much rather have Plouffe than Trumbo. Plouffe’s highest war was 4.5 just 2 years ago.. Trumbo’s was 2.9 in 2011.
oaklandathletics116
Agreed…glad some one said it.
BooJays33
I just want to remind everybody that Morales, the guy they HAD to jump on at 3/33m is a DH only. This team would have been better served signing someone who can actually play a little 1st… leaving 60-75 games for Tulo/Donaldson/Martin/Bautista (if he returns) to get those half days off… Tulo especially is going to need those days off… Now instead you just take his bat right out of the lineup. Or Morales’s… I don’t even dislike Morales and can see him hitting well in Toronto i don’t see see why he is the guy they had to go get… its like they HAD to get this perceived value, so you buy the cheeseburger combo even though your a vegetarian…
patborders92
What are Shapiro and Atkins actually doing? Maybe someone can clear things up for me, I see half an attempt at a rebuild and half an attempt at trying to compete.
birdinblue
Maybe we should ask what exactly are you doing? Constantly spouting the same things over and over, being a cancer on Jays boards.
Maybe you don’t really know Baseball, and if so I apologize. It’s only January, with lots of FA out there and plenty of trades to be made.
How the heck can you say all of what you do with a straight face? THE SKY IS NOT FALLING, the season hasn’t even started yet! Your assunptions are annoying and very embarrassing.
patborders92
I’ve consistently said they haven’t shown a clear direction. There not pushing to compete or to rebuild and on pace for another sub 500 season. If your running a team you need to commit to what you want, we either need to trade off assets to retool for the future or be aggressive in adding major league talent that will help this team to compete for a playoff spot again. You can’t out build other teams when your in the middle of the pack.
bringbackthespos
I’m so happy most of the posters in this thread are not running the team.
I still can’t understand guys who put out there, “no direction?” What? Last year this team beat the O’s, then absolutely destroyed Texas, and were basically annihilated by Andrew Miller. The club knows this (the top), Gibby knows this, the players know this. So what do they do? They go and get two guys who absolutely destroy left-handed pitching (yes, Morales and Pearce live for lefties). They still have one of (if not), THE BEST, pitching staffs in the majors. They still have a very good hitting club THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY be BETTER OFF than last year because of the recognized and corrected problems we clearly saw against Cleveland. Sure, we still don’t have an everyday RF, but these are things that are being worked on. I have total faith in these guys. They aren’t dummies.
It’s sad to see Edwin go. I have his shirt. I cheered for him always and will follow his career from here on in. But I want the Jays to win. To me, they’ve done everything right so far, they offered Edwin a lot more than he got, his agent screwed him. But we needed the other look which we now have. I still hope we get another lefty bat and I’m hopeful the change in management in Cincy clears the path for Joey, but that’s a whole other story. Right now, Boston is tops in the East. But Toronto is clearly the 2nd best team and we STILL HAVE MOVES TO MAKE.
Stop the doom and gloom, this is a helluva team.
patborders92
when you hang your hat on dumpster diving it usually sets for disaster. This team is more than 1 or 2 players away from getting back to where they were last year. They let our productive bats go and kept the low obp guys. Sure we got a great rotation, but our bullpen is a one trick pony (how many games did our superior pen loose last year?)
Are we really he second best team? You can absolutely make a case that BAL and NYY are ahead of us.
Even Wilner wouldn’t agree with your over the top projections
bringbackthespos
100% disagree with you!
Productive bats? Please. Jose Bautista? How about Saunders in the 2nd half of the season–you call that productive?
My money is still on the Sox. But we’re a long way from the season starting, and dumpster diving can work WITH the foundation we have. Yankees and O’s ahead of the Jays. My friend, that honestly made me lol!
Arguing back and forth is worthless. Let’s just agree to disagree. Thing is, I’ll be here all year, and when we’re first in the wild card spot I’ll still be posting. Not sure where everybody else will be.
patborders92
our positional players lineup is about on par with the Angels atm
The Morning After Pillar
@bringbackthespos. I totally agree with you. There is a solid core to add to here. If Shapiro
The Morning After Pillar
If Shapiro and Co. operated as fans they would be in a world of trouble. I too after with what they are doing
filthyrich
Spot on spos!
I’d have loved to see the Jays in the ALCS with a healthy Travis. Highly overlooked. Missing out of the Indians injured stars was worth it though.
Indians got better. Jays?? Things could fall the right way and I’d imagine at least one relief and one outfield option still to come. Definitely still looks like a playoff caliber core to me. The starting rotation alone.
Rays could be the second best team in AL East if healthy. They murdered the Jays without fail last year, could be scary.
BigSexy
What about Cleveland as a landing spot for Bautista? I know it sounds crazy for them to get both him and EE when even just EE was a stretch but Bautista’s price has significantly dropped from what was expected even for those who aren’t high on him. What about a 1 year deal with 10-15M guaranteed and another 5-10M in incentives (17-20M per year total at most). I generally think a 1 year deal for Bautista isn’t smart because of the lost draft pick but that would really put the Indians over the top, a team that already has aspirations for a WS return. I think that is definitely worth the lost pick. It makes sense for Bautista to earn as much as he can on a 1 year deal to regain his value even if it means settling for an amount around the QO. I don’t think any other team is willing to offer a one year deal b/c of the draft slot they’d give up. He also plays for a serious contender where he can showcase his talent for a new chance at FA at the end of the season. As far as the money, I know its out of the budget and Larry Dolan has already rewarded the fans with Encarnacion but man, would that team be even scarier.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Would a swap of Bruce to the Yankees for Headley and some cash/prospect make sense? Bad contract for a bad contract? It generates some flexibility for the Yankees to grow their prospects into their respective roles and gives the Yankees a further posibility of trading Gardner.
Headley is no David Wright but David Wright won’t be the same again and the Mets need a third baseman. Unfortunately, the disease he has isn’t something that surgery can fix. Out of all people, I wish it didn’t happen to him. I know they have Reyes and Flores, but Headley in the mix leads to a stronger and more flexible beanch of both Reyes and Flores on it.