The Cardinals, who in the past two seasons alone have jettisoned a near roster’s worth of offensive talent, are still searching for a reliable middle-of-the-order presence, hears Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. On the back of landmark drafts under the direction of former Scouting Directors Jeff Luhnow and the now-imprisoned Chris Correa, St. Louis, by the middle of the decade, found themselves dripping with projected regulars across the diamond. Though a trimming of the surplus was surely in order, the current offensive version of the Senior Circuit’s most distinguished franchise is still left, aside from the ever-reliable bat of corner infielder Matt Carpenter, without its coveted level of thump. Franchise officials, at this juncture, could be lamenting the ’18 dumpings of Tommy Pham (.343/.448/.622 after a midseason trade to the Rays) and Luke Voit (187 wRC+ with the Yankees), but seem to have a number of potential targets in mind as the offseason approaches its zenith.
- The club “has spoken” with the Diamondbacks about Paul Goldschmidt, says Goold, though the 31-year-old might be a disjointed fit on an already-unbalanced roster. The club’s second-best hitter in 2018, by a wide margin, was former minor league journeyman Jose Martinez, whose recent forays in the outfield have been mostly disastrous. Goldschmidt, for his part, hasn’t played a single inning at a position other than first base in his MLB career thus far, and the club’s corner-outfield spots are already manned by high-profile acquisitions in Marcell Ozuna and Dexter Fowler, the latter of whom is owed nearly $48MM over the next three seasons. Former top-40 prospect Tyler O’Neill, who showed promise, if an undiscerning eye, last season, is also in the mix, though the club could certainly dangle one (or perhaps two) of the four to make a room for the all-world bat of the six-time All-Star.
- Once the envy of executives across the league, the Redbird farm has thinned considerably in recent seasons, though it’s continued its longstanding tradition of churning out under-the-radar performers. Ben Frederickson, also of the StL Post-Dispatch, offers a wonderful overview of former third-round pick Harrison Bader, who broke out to the tune of 3.5 fWAR on the back of sterling center-field defense this season. Quotes from team president Bill DeWitt III aggressively paint the 24-year-old as an “emerging star,” though caution should certainly reign in the case of the University of Florida product. Bader, after all, did struggle in consecutive AAA stints in 2016 and ’17, and posted just a .251/.317/.378 line against right-handers last season while whiffing in over 31% of his plate appearances.
So in other words, not much has changed since the last update.
So in other words, you really didnt need to comment, either. Thank YOU for your VERY valuable contribution.
3rd,
AND you didn’t even have to comment ON his post, which was totally harsh and uncalled for. Absolutely not a valuable contribution!
He or she has every right to post to their
hearts content as long as it doesn’t demean others, like
other postings I read on here everywhere!
Can’t we all just get along?
I will play a sad sad tune on the world’s smallest violin, just for you.
This.
No. Because the most distenguishede is not the Cardinals.
Are you clueless? Please answer.
Who you asking to? Me?
Yes, Mr Alledgedly Clueless, answer.
November 24, 2018
So in other words, you really didnt need to comment, either. Thank YOU for your VERY valuable contribution.
0
Jorge,
I hope this person
gets boxing gloves this Xmas.
Maybe he will loosen
up, get out his anger!
Trolls be trollin’
Thank you for an even less valuable contribution. I guess I shouldn’t have expected anything less from someone with the username pickle rick.
Lolz wrong person. Stupid phone app.
not much has changed in three years
Bill DeWitt Jr is the owner, not III, and St. Louis picked up Adams from Washington in 2018, not the reverse.
He is third generation “Bill DeWitt,” so he is III.
Bill DeWitt, Jr. Is the owner. His son, Bill III, is President. His other son, Andrew, owns DEWEYS PIZZA.
Fowler’s contract is even worse than Ellsbury’s.
48M spread out over 3 yrs is worse than 47.28M over 2 yrs.
Ells does have the decency to remain on the DL and not take up a roster spot.
LOL!
Not true, depends on team, market size and payroll. Big market team pay more less years doesn’t hurt as much but small market team crippled for 2 years. Smaller average salary over another isn’t quite as bad. All situational
3 years to 2 years is not better
By this logic a $48M contract for only a one day commitment would be better still.
By your logic you can make that number 2 billion. Stupid comment. I’d rather have a replaceable guy with a bad contract for 2 more years than 3
“Bader, after all, did struggle in consecutive AAA stints in 2016 and ’17”
Maybe he struggled a bit in 2016 (only 161 PA in AAA, .848 OPS in 356 PA in AA), but I’m not sure how you can say he struggled in 2017. I know the PCL is offensive heavy but I cant understand how a .283/.347/.469 batting line with 20 homers and 15 steals is bad, especially at a premium defensive position that he excels at.
I’m really curious to see how Bader fares in the next couple years, he could really break out into superstar level, or end up another Keirmaier or even a Denard Span-type. Really no way of predicting what his ceilings are, if he makes adjustments I could see him as way better/more valuable than Kiermaier/Span, but if the league adjusts to him then he’s a 4th OF type. Defense is good for the next 5-10 years for sure though.
So you could see him as a superstar, as way better than Kiermaier/Span, as Kiermaier/Spanesque, or as a fourth outfielder. So basically as everything other than a starter who is less good than Kiermaier/Span or a marginal 25-man guy. Thanks for the analysis/detailed prediction.
Yes idiot, I did also say it was super hard to predict him and was curious to see how he pans out.
Ever think about just not replying? You waste both of our time. I don’t see you making any analysis, coward.
@cxcx
Why did you attack JTO on his post? There was nothing wrong. He just commented on his opinion.
“offensive heavy” is putting it mildly. his plate discipline regressed, and his BABIP jumped over 50 points
This should probably be clarified in your article when the results would tell a different story.
I’m speaking of his AAA stats if I can clarify myself. He didn’t hit badly in 17 in AAA.
hopefully he stays above a billy hamilton line
The most likely rearrangement if they acquire Goldschmidt is Carpenter shifting to 3rd base, not shuffling the outfield or moving Goldschmidt off of 1st.
which arrangement would necessitate benching their second-best offensive performer last year.
Why wouldn’t JMart be included in a Goldie trade?
Arizona would get back a career 130 wRC+, poor defensive 1B with four years of very cheap control.
He’d likely be one of several pieces going back to Arizona
certainly could be. the scenario is outlined in the article
But I would say it’s a misuse of your assets. Whether you think he’s a fluke or not, Jose is a really good hitter who’s seen his power grow at the highest level. A lot of hitters don’t come into their power until reaching the highest level (Jose Ramirez, Robinson Cano, Christian Yelich), I can envision Martinez being a 30 homer hitter without sacrificing any batting average of obp. What’s the value of a hitter like that for the next 4 years of control? More than 1 year of Goldscmidt.
Because Martinez will not be traded to a NL team.
They wouldn’t say no to Goldschmidt because of freakin Jose Martinez
They already benched him much of the 2nd half until injuries forced him back in the lineup. He was much worse at 1B than in the OF. He’s certainly not holding up a Goldschmidt deal.
Yeah the Gold Glove “Americas First Baseman” has to learn to play OF. lol
Or include Carpenter in the deal and go out and sign Donaldson in addition.
Carpenter has no trade value at this point in his career. It’s a game of youth. Young assets.
It’s pretty simple for the Cards. Trade for Goldschmidt, move Carpenter to 3rd, trade Martínez to an AL team. Mariners would take him.
Mariners would take him just so dipotto could make another trade. Dudes got a hot hand
The Mariners are looking to get younger…I am not sure a 31 year old dh is what they will be looking for!
A 31 year old DH IS getting younger. Unfortunately the not resigned older DH was their best weapon at the plate…
I don’t know that they are looking to get younger, but rather have effective control beyond the next two seasons, which Martinez fits that bill.
Good point but do you really think they will be able to fight for the wild card in two years? Based on the second half of 18, the players they have or will lose and adding back those they’ve added, unless they add big time talent now which I don’t see, I think not. Martinez is not the answer although he could fit the bill in the AL Central better where each team could if things played out right could compete for the division. It’s so weak compared to others that even Detroit can hope. Of course it will take a miracle but even a miracle year is unlikely to propel the M’s to the top of the West.
In two years cole and Verlander likely won’t be astros. Trout probably won’t be an Angel either. Could the M’s be a player in two years? Maybe.
While that “simple” move sounds great…Carp at 3rd is worse defensively than Jmart is playing 1b
Most ridiculous comment of the year goes to…
Not true Carp is a -2 for his career at 3b. 2015 Carp 3b was -10 decensive runs saved. Other then one bad season Carp has been avg 3b. So your assertion that Carp is worse at 3b, then Martinez is at 1b is pure BS.
idk y Cards fans get these bonkers narratives about players.. Garcia was a headcase, Carp is a terrible 3b, Holliday is still slammed for the flyball in 2009 NLDS..
Dude…Holiday took a sinking fly ball to the groin. :)
“Most distinguished franchise”?!? The other 29 teams would like to talk.
said senior circuit
Fine. Other 15 teams then.
no other team in senior circuit is close in winning the world series
Only the Dodgers and/or Giants could argue the point historically speaking.
14 teams
What does you mean? The Dodgers nearly wom it this year?
16.
Atlanta,Miami, Washington, Mew York, Philadelphia
Then Chicago, Houston, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati
Then Arizona, Los Angeles, Colorado, San Fran, San Diego
houston? where have you been? 14 other teams, not including st louis.
He’s taking about most Championships…which the Cardinals have the most of in the NL. The Giants are a close second.
Do they give out prizes for times nearly won?
Said the Senior Circuits most distinguished franchises.
Which would be true, no other NL team has more pennants or World Championships
Correction, I forgot the Dodgers and Giants have more pennants, but less chips.
Still the same though, most chips in the NL
It said it IS. Representing OPINION as FACT. I cannot tolerate Fake News media. Pro-Cardinals propaganda on this minecraft server.
Relax Donnie this isn’t CNN..
If most distinguished means most championships, then it is fact.
You sir, need to just quit. You didn’t realize senior circuit was a reference to the NL, ok. Still including Houston in the NL, lol. Not having enough sense to realize you need to subtract the team to which you are drawing the comparison from the total # of teams in the league and then calling fake news because you are wrong for the 3rd time … priceless.
Cards also have the most HoF’ers.
The Cards should have 2 others in the hall of fame. Ken Boyer and Jim Edmonds. Tell me Craig Biggio was as good as either of these guys.
Giants actually have the most Hall of Fame members, 25 behind only the Yankees in all of baseball with 26.
Craig Biggio was better than either of those guys.
Oh pickle … give it a rest and stop embarrassing yourself any further.
I hate to agree with this. I am a fan of another team as well but this is true.
Let’s talk about what potential package the cards would offer for Goldschmidt… my initial guess would be Hudson / Weaver, Carson Kelly and a lower prospect. But As much as I like the idea of adding Goldy, I’m not sure if it’s worth losing the young prospects for a one year rental unless we can extend him. Especially in a loaded NL Central, where there’s no guarantee he puts us over the edge in the division. And he would block us from adding a Machado / Donaldson type player cause carp would have to move to 3rd. Just my opinion. But either way I would welcome Goldy to the cards roster anytime.
Trading for Goldy and signing Harper would be insane though…
Absolute insanity, If that happened I might buy half season tickets. But we cards fans have been dreaming of big acquisitions for some years. Usually come up short. I know defensively this wouldnt be wise, but what about goldy at first, Kyle Seager at third, carp at second and O’Neill or an acquisition in right? Then wong becomes trade bait? Alot of moving parts. But would be fun. Be in reality they should try to trade for goldy and Greinke. Maybe boxberger too
God no… Goldy has 1 season left on his deal. That in itself will limit what DBacks get for him.
I highly doubt Goldschmidt would bring back that much of a return. 1st base is easily the most stacked position in the majors, options aplenty and while none of them are as good as Goldschmidt with plenty of options means less demand, less demand means cheaper prices. People on here haven’t adjusted to the current market, spend too much time yellimg collusion every time someone who they think is great signs for much less than they thought and still stinks it up.
I happen to believe that Carp is a better third baseman than first. Plus Gyroko could spell him in late innings and against tough lefties. A Hudson, Weaver, Kelly offer should be plenty for a possible one year rental. Who knows what to do about Fowler? Who would want him even if they eat much of his salary. Brantley in right is a possibility, but perhaps Cargo or Dahl in a trade with Colorado. And add Britton.
Dahl would require a fat return
I would think that if they trade for Goldy and move Carp to third then Gyroko would be traded away for relief pitching or something! JMO
It’s fair to say that Lunhow and Correa have gone different directions.
What Correa did was criminally wrong, but I do pity a guy who went to jail for cheating at baseball.
Pitty the guy who took intellectual property with him to Astro’s.. Correa was 100% wrong for and trying to find that. Correa is paying the price..
It’s about time someone actually got punishments for cyber crimes. Our society is way behind in legislation for cyber crime.
Not entirely true, go look at some of the ridiculous sentences handed down to hackers. White Collar crime needs far more punitive punishments, then what is dealt out today.
Example: newly elected FL Senator Rick Scott’s company commited 1.7 billion in Medicaid fraud. Yet he didnt serve a day of jail time, and has been Governor of FL and is now US Senator elect.
Goldschmidt did play one game of centerfield for rookie-level Missoula of the Pioneer League in 2009, so I’m sure he could handle the outfield just fine.
Calling all trolls on this post!!
St Loius is so far behind the top teams it’s enjoyable reading fans who think they are contenders. They need a few big FA signings in pitching and position players. The idiot Gxm traded Pham. I believe he was still Cheap based on production. They are so far from competing against even the AL east how can they get past LA? They have the talent to do a quick rebuild and sign some good FA’s. But… don’t expect them to get past a WC or DS. Pipe dreams. AL is primed to destroy the NL for half a decade at least. A few minor moves and giving away players for lottery ticket prospects is not going to do it. Go all in or rebuild.
Speaking of stupid signings and bad trades. Heres the yankee fan to tell us how awesome Machado is gonna be being paid 300+ million dollars, dishing out 80+ million dollars for corbin, and already trading 6 years of a #3, #4 starter for 2 years worth of james “Less than 170 innings pitched” Paxton.
They won 88 games, and had a fantastic second half under the new manager. Considering they have the same roster, and about 40ishM they can add to payroll with basically very few holes (really no holes, just not a lot of top tier talent on the roster), gives plenty of reason to believe they can remain competitive in 2019.
Stl needs a closer. Hicks isn’t ready.
They need a few big free agent signing pitching and position players lol. The cardinals for years have been successful for not doing the very thing you suggested. Holiday was their biggest free agent signing for the longest time. The reality is most free agent contracts are instantly god awful from the moment they’re signed. It is the best way to win. You sign them, cripple your financial flexibility for 4 or 5 years leading your team to inevitably tank and rebuild. That’s a roundabout way of spending a bunch of money to lose, or you could just never sign a free agent and stay competitive probably forever. Only Signing guys to 1 year deals.
Signing guys to one year deals is an excellent way to float around the middle of the pack and never be a real contender. STL has been in that exact same position for too many years now……
Yeah should sign more guys like Dexter Fowler and Brett Cecil. Again that’s a great way to win. Fill your payroll with god awful deals and have no choice but to tank and get younger less expensive better players.
Projecting the AL to cream the NL for the next five years is an exercise of sheer stupidity considering all the movement that will be done in the next few months….let alone the next few years.
I remember back in 2006 the media said Detroit wins the World Series best of 7 in three games, making a point of no competition, against the lowly St. Louis Cardinals. I recall the only game Detroit won was the famous substance on the hand game pitched brilliantly by Kenny Rogers. The point is that games need to be played.
Step 1- Go get Edwin Diaz and another relief pitcher from the Mariners- Offer them Kelly to replace Zunino, Martinez to be their DH, offer them O’Neil back, Hudson, and Weaver. Diaz and Hicks would be a lethal 8 9 combo for years to come on cheap team control.
Step 2- Sign Harper to replace O’Neil
Step 3- Offer Gorman, Helsely, Arozarema for Goldschmidt
Dude. No.
Well, finishing 3rd isnt the worst thing to happen.
Step 1: pee into a cup
Step 2: admit to probation officer you’re on drugs (they will go easier on you)
Step 3: return to jail
Huh, sounds like you’ve had more than a couple chances to figure that all out bure. It’s oddly specific, especially about the whole “if you’re honest theyll go easier on you” part. Have you sought rehab man?
That was a roundabout way of saying I know you’re are but what am I.
Yeah, cause 1st analogy normal people think of is going back to jail for drug offense and how to avoid more charges. Totally normal
I think Gorman should be on the very short list of untouchables in our farm system. High ceiling on that kid.
If you stop saying stupid stuff you get made fun of less and wouldn’t have to defend your ridiculous opinions. Keep up with the witty gotcha attempts though everyone is entertained.
Then they would look like the Angels with Pujols and Trout…………and going nowhere.
I am not a Cardinal fan but I’ve always respected the organization. The best baseball fans in the world, team was always built on defense, speed, and pitching. They got away from that, they still have the best fans but when I watched them last year, they got away from it.
Gyorko needs to go! He holds this team back tremendously. How about a package deal, Gyorko and Carpenter for Syndergard, then we would finally have a dominant rotation for once.
The Cardinals need to get back to Whitey ball. Defense, speed, and hitting. Not mashing, hitting. Harper will be paid ten times what he’s worth. The shift has already dropped his average to .240 and it’s just gonna get worse. You can’t stop the shift. Even if they outlawed the shift, are they gonna tell someone like Ozzie Smith, ” you’re not allowed to have that much range.” Get back to hitting the ball and quit trying to clear the fences all the time.
You clearly dont understand what Harper’s offensive profile is. OBP and power.. His fluctuations in avg can largly be attributed to Bapip. But yet his OBP and power have remained consistent.
Here they go again. Cards can’t land the star player they want and now trying to get Goldschmidt. Foolish move. Don’t give up the farm for this guy
Goldschmidt is a significantly better hitter than either Harper/Machado
And 6 years older than both.
Here’s my two cents….
1 Moustakas or Donaldson at 3rd
2 Roll with the outfield they have
3 Beef up the pin, maybe trade Martinez for relief pitching
” the ever-reliable bat of corner infielder Matt Carpenter, ” What a joke that statement is. If he ain’t milking for a walk, whining to the HPU about a strike, or striking out he may, just may hit a blooper to the left side which is adequately shift manned.
To call Jose Martinez outfield play “disastrous” is just flat out stupid and wrong. He is average to maybe slightly below but combining him with Bader to take a lot of RCF hit balls, Jose did himself decent. He has a scribbler reputation as being lousy. That is just not true and his bat makes up for any shortcomings in spades. Then of course he can be replaced by Dexter Fowler………..lol……….lol………..lol
Stop drinking. Also when Carpenter is whining to HPU it’s because it’s a ball. Dude had more called strikes outside of the strike zone than anyone in the league by a longshot.
Carp ended up with a decent year, “but”, if he hadn’t played like he was in a trance during Apr, May, and half of June, he would’ve had a great year. Just too inconsistent.
Don’t look at metrics. I watched EVERY Cards game this year. Martinez is a defensive disaster no matter where he plays.
Yep, trade him while he has value
The cardinals DO NOT need goldschmidt, machado or harper. They need Arenado.