Pirates righty Chris Archer has undergone a procedure to repair a bilateral hernia, the club announced. He’s expected to require approximately six weeks to recover.
The surgery does not appear to represent any kind of threat to Archer’s ability to contribute to the Bucs in 2019. The club says it’s “anticipated” that he’ll “be on or close to a regular schedule for the 2019 season.”
Presumably, the organization cautious phrasing is mostly designed to avoid over-promising. But it also hints at the realities of recovering from a core muscle procedure, which isn’t sure to be straightforward. No doubt the organization will be conservative in bringing Archer along this spring.
Expectations remain high for Archer, who came over in a surprising trade deadline swap. Though he continues to turn in sparkling peripherals, Archer has also not posted a sub-4.00 ERA season in any of the past three years. Reversing that run of disappointment will certainly require good health.
It has thus far been a fairly eventful offseason for a Pirates team that will try to contend but likely won’t spend big to do so. They sent fellow starter Joe Musgrove out for his own abdominal procedure about a month ago. Meanwhile, the club has (true to character) pursued a few low-cost means of unearthing value, inking Jung Ho Kang and Lonnie Chisenhall to affordable, one-year pacts.
BobTillman……
One reason I’m so bullish on the Rays in 2019 (and beyond) is due to the 3 players they got from the Pirates for Archer.
A brilliant trade. One of the best I’ve seen in years.
This could be one of the most one sided trades I’ve ever seen. They way overpaid for archer who isn’t even that good and gave away the future for 3 years where they won’t win the World Series. I don’t know how the rays did it but this could go down as one of the best trades they ever made.
Agree 100%.. Huntington always gets taken by other teams
It was a very good trade for the Rays but I really don’t think all the players will turn into stars. I see no way in which Glasnow can be an effective starter with his spotty control and inability to manage his pitch count. Meadows can be very good but he never really impressed in the minors, and Baz is a wild card despite a high pedigree. They can end up with a fringe starting OF and two solid relievers.
You must be a Rays fan…Meadows couldn’t hit Triple A pitching and Glasnow is a headcase with control problems. Baz is at least 3 years away from seeing big league action, and that’s with no injuries and no setbacks.
Meadows hit .280 in pirates AAA .290 witj the pirates. Then came over and hit .344 with 10 hrs in 96 abs for the rays AAA and came up and didn’t light the world on fire but was decent and he is 23 years old. Give him a year lol good lord. If kids don’t come up and hit .350 these days then they are broken and don’t know how to hit. Glasnow is still only 24 and will help with having a pitching coach like Kyle Snyder who is like him. You must be a pirates fan because the rays absolutely won this trade by far. Archer will be a 4 era pitcher his whole career
Lol if the pitcher whisperer uncle ray couldn’t fix him, Snyder’s not going to. He’s had control issues his whole career. When you can throw 100 though it doesn’t matter in the minors, you can just blow it by people. The majors is a different story…Glasnow hasn’t been able to control his stuff without significantly reducing velocity (lowering his FB to 94-95) and that was disastrous for a power arm. He’s never not going to have control issues. I don’t care what pitching coach is going to take a crack at him. He’ll be lucky to stick around as a bullpen arm, my guess is his ERA hovers around 5-6 his whole career. In terms of meadows, he spent 2 1/2 years in AAA for the Pirates. his BB% (5.1%) declined while his HR/FB became a joke (2.4%). His FB% (40.4%) was high, but had no oomph behind it at all. Hitting .280 is fine if you’re going to get power, but until he shows he can hit with power he’s going to be a 4th outfielder.
Listen, I don’t profess to be some expert scout, and to be honest, there is definitely a reason to be optimistic about this trade as a Rays fan. Honestly though, I just feel as if the Pirates sold high on a bunch of one time up and coming prospects that didn’t turn out. You can disagree, and I respect your opinion, but I think you’re wrong. Only time will tell.
Great guy going to be pitching on clearly a last place club… bottom feeding Bucs.. always.. ARCHER is class.. wish he could pitch for a winner
One of the most overrated players in MLB.
But a likable TV commentator.
bottom feeding? more like middling.
If archer continues the trend of getting better like he was starting to do for the bucs.. he very well could be pitching for a winner.
Couldn’t happen to a more deserving team the pirates got greedy for Cole and ended up missing out on Andujar
I don’t think Andujar was ever a part of a proposed trade. I’m pretty sure Frazier was the headliner in the proposed deal. And even if it was Andujar, that’s not all that much better than the package they did end up receiving.
Yes, it is. And I’m not even a Yankees fan…
Right I thought Moran had a better season for some reason. They still did get a lot of control however over two players who have a pretty good chance of becoming above average regulars though.
Andujar was what the pirates wanted, Frazier was what the Yankees wanted to give up.
I’m glad the pirates didn’t trade for Frazier
To clarify Moran and Musgrove are fringe MLB players. the Yankees offer of Andujar, Abreu and Widener was so much better but they were pissed the Yankees wouldn’t give up frazier
That’s not true. The Yankees reported offer was Clint Frazier and Chance Adams. The Pirates were holding out for Andujar or Torres.
I’d rather have Frazier than Colin Moran. Then or now. Musgrove is a nice mid-back end rotation arm though. If the bet offer they had on the table was Frazier and Adams it’s not ridiculous that he pirates went with the other package. They may have not like Adams, perhaps rightfully so after the step back he took this year. Frazier is still the most interesting player of that group.
Bucs needed a 3rd baseman. Glad they got Dickerson for nothing instead of Frazier anyway.
I (and what appears the team as well) never really wanted Frazier, at least not as a headline. Pirates already had a higher rated near MLB rated OF prospect in Meadows. Along with Marte and Polanco (and i think Cutch was still on the roster?) Frazier had no place here.
You have it completely backwards.
No The yes network reported the pirates wanted both. And the Yankees were willing to build a package around either but not both
So instead the pirates settled for Musgrove a c level prospect and moran
Where is there a report of widener, Abreu, and andujar? I don’t recall ever hearing that. Both widener and Abreu were less regarded than Adams this time last year so I’m sure either one of them could’ve gone in his place but I certainly never heard a proposal with those 3 names. The package the Yankees wanted to give up was centered around frAzier and Adams. But you have to remember at this time last year the Pirates had Polanco, Marte, and Meadows waiting in the wings. That would’ve been four young outfielders. I imagine they did want andujar but all reports I’ve seen said he was never included.
Pirates never really wanted Frazier. Any package with andujar and some sort of not the worst prospect pitching where offered talks would’ve actually heated up.
Yankees didn’t want to give up Andujar at all, and I can’t blame them. Hes good and fit a team need.
Yankees fans didn’t want a “5th starter” like Cole anyway, remember?
I know the Yankees are entitled to everyone and everything they desire, but the Astros offered a few more crumbs so they got him instead.
The Pirates asked for Frazier and Adams and the Yankees offered a package built around one but not both. Andujar was never on the table.
Musgrove is better than anything Cashman offered.
Can we all stop acting like the RUMOR we HEARD was factual or not? None of saw the email proposal so let” leave it there.
But to play the game, I heard the Yanks were offering Frazier AND Adams and maybe a lesser prospect but the Pirates demanded one of Torres or Andular to center a deal and the Yanks of course said no. Keep in mind that Frazier wasn’t really in their plan as much once Stanton was acquired. Adams, for some reason, was on Cash’s s-list even though he had a spectacular 2017 season.
But those are the two that consistently were mentioned as the “touchable” prospects they were willing to move.
Adams is a guy that i think was propped up due to being in the Yankees system. He doesn’t really have any good-great pitches imo and he has control problems. Never understood why he was so highly rated.
To clarify Moran and Musgrove are fringe MLB players. the Yankees offer of Andujar, Abreu and Widener was so much better but they were pissed the Yankees wouldn’t give up frazier and Andujar. The Yankees wouldn’t give both in one trade
Moran and Musgrove are fringe Major leaguers, they were behind other prospects on the astros. As Whitley and Martes and Jones were ahead of Musgrove and Tucker was a much better prospect than Moran.Even the Blue Jays moved on from musgrove
The Archer trade was also bad. The Rays won that trade too. Glasnow is already better than Archer. Great peripherals but archer doesn’t win. He just doesnt
Glasnow better than Archer? That’s funny. Really you should take your jokes on the road. Glasnow is a headcase with control issues. Archer might be overrated, but Glasnow won’t even be a starter. He may have had a few good games for the Rays when the trade first happened, but he faded down the stretch. I wish the kid luck, I truly hope he succeeds, but he seems to be completely mental. Time will tell who won the trade, and if Baz develops 3-4 years down the road into what he’s projected to be, then it’s a definitely win for the Rays, but that’s a huge IF. Meadows couldn’t hit triple A pitching, no way he’s going to be anything but at best a 1 WAR player in the majors, most likely he’ll be a 4th outfielder.
At 24 and 23. You crack me up. You must be the best pro Scout in the world. Meadows and Glasnow have so many things to drool about their skills. You can teach control, can’t teach velocity and he’s got plenty of that. I guess they are too old to learn the game. Stupid rays
Archer is so overrated , probably a number 3 pitcher on a good staff.
Pretty much doxie..He always pitched just well enough to lose
I don’t like Archer but pitcher wins and losses mean absolutely nothing
its not wins and losses its crumbling when the game is on the line finding a way to lose
If the Pirates lose 2-1 that means the offense didn’t do their job. Not Archer. And don’t try it with “pitching to the score” or whatever it is.
Archer probably hasn’t been losing too many games 2-1 with his 4+ ERA the last 3 years. We can talk about how his xFIP looks much better but eventually we need to actually see an ERA that can match it.
“Archer is so overrated , probably a number 3 pitcher on a good staff”.
That’s actually a pretty good commodity. What’s a Happ or Eovaldi going to cost you in the open market?
People kill me. If you have a top 50 prospect that ends up being a solid 200 IP, 200 KO and 4.00 ERA guy then you have yourself a “win”.
Can’t truly evaluate the trade for 3 years or so.
We can evaluate the process
Sure, but the process is speculative. Amateur GMs, me included, can debate this all day because of different opinions on prospects, contacts, etc.
Classless, garbage organization to sign kang
Should have signed Jose Reyes instead, I guess…?
Since I was asked……and I think you guys who are so sure it was the heist of the century might want to think about it some more…..
I said at the time it was somewhere between “meh” to slight advantage Rays, and my thought hasn’t changed. And to go back in time, no, Hunnington doesn’t always get “taken”. the “heist” was getting a perfectly good year from Dickerson, while the Rays were paying his salary (through Daniel Hudson). Now THAT was a heist.
Meanwhile the Rays got back a perfectly “meh” starter, whose ceiling is probably a #4 or #5 guy. Meadows looks OK; seems to have trouble adjusting when promoted to higher levels, unless you live by the SSS of his time in Pittsburgh. But he’s a high floor, low ceiling kind of guy; he starts on a lot of teams, especially ones that don’t do well.
Baz was the strange piece. The idea that he had to a PTBN is just bizarre; why? And I would add that his performances are wacky; one day he’s Bob Gibson, the next Henry Gibson. Being purely speculative, I assume an off-the-field issue. And the Rays (tho to be fair they’ve gotten better) have never been good at dealing with those.
Now IF Kyle Snyder can morph Glassnow into a #3 (it’s possible; I think Snyder’s already the best) AND Meadows develops to a higher level, AND Baz pitches to his athletic abilities, ya, it looks pretty good. But let’s remember Archer was in HIGH demand at the deadline, because of his contract perhaps more than his performance. The Rays were going to do well wherever they moved him to.
Really the ultimate question is that if the Rays had kept Dickerson/Archer/Span/Colome, could they have shoe-horned past the Yanks and A’s. I think that’s more than possible, remembering that those September games would have been played much differently if they were “in it”. And let’s remember that as late as mid-June, Rob Refsnyder was their LFer.
And, to wrap, even if they did that one right, they completely blew the Dickerson one ( a COMPLETE fiasco) and got nothing for Span/Colome; tho neither is “great”, they’re at minimum league-average guys, and they weren’t replaced. So the year transaction-wise was “meh”.
And you gotta do better than that when your competition is producing Judge And Andujar and Benetendi and Devers, and all you’ve got is Jake Bauers.
And Snell
Adames? Snell? Honeywell? Without trading Dickerson mallex smith never got that chance. Mallex never hits .300 in the majors and then you don’t have zunino. They didn’t care who they got for Dickerson because he was in the way and obviously they tried to trade him. His defense was terrible and nobody wanted that salary after his second half collapse. He turned it around and made it look worse but mallex was about the same and got us a return and played center which Dickerson couldn’t.
…ah, good point…..
TBH
Pirates got fleeced.
I’m a Yankee fan and the Ray’s will be a problem this is a 90 win team with more young talent on the way. Kinda worries me lol
yes they did, but they deserved to be
in both deals how they think Musgrove a player the Jays and astros both veiwed as a marginal prospect was worth anything Ill never know. Josh harrison was already better than Moran. the Pirates will be in last for the forseeable future, though Mitch Keller can be an ace if they dont ruin him
Joe Musgrove was the 46th overall selection in the draft. Guy is 6’5 250 and has already shown that he is at minimum a #4 starter. You keep smearing him like he was a 26th round pick who has no business of playing in the majors. I’m sorry you don’t like the guy but he’s a quality pitcher. He’s no Gerrit Cole but he’s certainly a fine starter. Sorry neftleberg
C’mon Rays’ fans, if you want to be competitive, you’ve got to be a little more fussy.
1. Bottom line, the Dickerson snafu cost them 5.25M. All they had to do was non-tender him. Think you could have used that money on July 31? Picked up a Steve Pearce maybe? Maybe kept Eovoldi?
2. Adames? Ya, when he stops taking plays off, as BA has frequently noted in their reports, and which was obvious to anyone who saw him play. Great skill set, good hit tool, questionable dedication. In other words, Tim Beckham. Let’s see if the gang can get him out of his funk. But for now, every throw is an adventure and again, you know it.
3.Smith was hideous in the OF and on the basepaths for the first half of the year; and, again, you know it. I’ll give him credit; he got better. Maybe it was Rocco; that (aka “The Miracle Worker”) might have gotten him the job in Minny. Maybe Mallex just grew up. Who knows?
4. Honeywell? C’mon, not everybody comes back from TJ (see Moore, Matt; remember him?). He’s a possibility, but that’s it.
Look, they did great things last year, primarily because (a) the young pitching is VERY good, and if anything is under-appreciated because of all the attention paid to the “opener” fantasy. And (b), their contact-oriented approach worked best in the AL East, where every defense (besides the Sox OF) are borderline disastrous. They led the free world in BABIP, and it’s easy to see why.
They’re close, which, in that division, is certainly admirable. Now it’s time for Stuie to spend, and get over the hump. But I suspect they’ll accept some regression (Snell, Wendle) and whine about the big market boys. You see, they’re always playing for tomorow; but tomorow never comes (Rosenthal).
Well if you’re gonna say the Red Sox have been developing players like devers it’s kinda hard to poke holes in Adames’ game considering devers hasn’t done a whole lot besides some small sample size postseason Abs. 3B was not a productive position for Boston this year at all.
1. Doesn’t matter how much money the rays had they weren’t buying at the deadline. This was a step back year to let the kids play and they were in no way gonna push them back again to grasp for a wild card so no the money was a wash. We non tendered him assuming we could find a trade partner because he was valuable but obviously people were scared of his defense and second have fall off that nobody really wanted to pay that money and give up prospects.
2. Tim Beckham never even came close to having the season Adames just did let alone the attitude or not running on the bases or the off field problems. Adames is very dedicated and if you are saying he’s nothing because his throws are a little wild you should re check your grade scale lol because devers and andujar are both very bad fielders and nobody says oh cmon about their play.
3. Smith had 40sb. I don’t really care how terrible he was at one point in time. Mike trout had a kinda long 0 for … this year does that mean he forgot how to hit? No, he still finished with what numbers? Mallex and Dickerson were basically the same player except when kk got hurt dickerson wasn’t gonna be filling in at center like we needed. And I’ll take mallex’s 40 sb over dickersons 6 more hrs.
4. Honeywell, deleon or Banda. Pick one because your theory won’t work for all of them so we are bound to have more good pitchers coming.
They did good things because of coaching and the players who will only mature. Maybe a snell and Wendel regress cancelled out by growing up of Brandon Lowe who has a lot of potential a whole year of adames 3 pitchers coming back and 1 who was decent but had a down year and is likely to bounce back. The roster is stacked and there’s only even more help down below.
You guys are acting as if the Pirates players are killing it. I mean there’s potential. But a pitcher with a 4.00 FIP, a light-hitting OF with a .785 OPS and a struggling 19 yo in rookie ball aren’t yet reason to show regret when you have a solid #3 with 3 more years of control.
Glasnow has a lower xFIP in TB than archer did in Pittsburgh. Archer also needs to pitch to where his FIP or xFIP would suggest one of these years. He’s managed to pitch worse the last 3..They also got meadows and baz. The fact that Glasnow has essentially been as good as Archer to this point doesn’t look good. Obviously it’s way too early to make any determinations.
So many people are saying the Pirates absolutely lost this trade when Glasnow was spotty with control and inconsistent with the Rays, Meadows isn’t proven at all yet, and Baz is doing so-so in the minors right now. Not saying that the Pirates will go on to regret this, but this trade, neither team has really ‘won’ or ‘lost’ yet.
They didn’t lose but even if the rays have 3 average players it Beats 1 average player. Unless archer becomes geritt Cole 2.0 the pirates don’t have a chance of winning this trade