In a worrisome moment for the Pirates, starter Chris Archer left his start against the Nationals after throwing an errant warm-up pitch before the second inning. Per Mark Zuckerman of MASN, the Pirates are calling it right shoulder discomfort for Archer.
Archer made it through the first inning of Tuesday’s game without issue, striking out the final two batters to work around a pair of singles. However, while warming up prior to the second inning, Archer threw high to catcher Jacob Stallings, shook his head, and walked off the field after meeting with the Pittsburgh training staff.
Of course, the seriousness of Archer’s soreness is yet unknown and will be monitored as details emerge. Regardless, it’s an unpleasant situation for a Pirates team that has already seen its top starter undergo season-ending Tommy John surgery this year. Any significant injury to Archer would only weaken an already-thin pitching staff that entered the season looking like the Pirates’ strength.
The Pirates hold a club option worth $9MM to retain Archer for the 2020 season, a decision that could be complicated by the introduction of a health issue. His Pittsburgh tenure has been a tumultuous one, with Archer’s underwhelming performance only amplified by the hefty return that the Pirates sent to Tampa Bay in return. This season, the 30-year-old has struggled to a 5.23 ERA, made worse only by the fact that peripheral markers don’t paint a much better picture, giving Archer credit for a 5.07 FIP.
While those numbers alone may challenge whether Archer is worth the $9MM option, an underlying health question might motivate the Pirates to prematurely cut ties with the former ace. However, given how heavily the Pirates invested in him at last season’s trade deadline, it would seem unwise to jump ship so quickly on a pitcher with Archer’s pure talent. To be sure, $9MM, while certainly not a bargain, is an affordable mark for even a middling starter—Matt Harvey, for example, signed with the Angels for $11MM prior to 2019.
Sure am glad the Dodgers give up the prospects fans were crying for them to give up for this guy.
Fans are always right.. (sarcasm)
Fans knew Archer was washed up when he was still in TB.
Can you pitch better?
Mr Armchair Expert, please, just shut up, for once?? Not one person really cares what you have to say.
What a ridiculous comment.
The point is that the guy was built up as a top starter. The Pirates gave up 3 solid prospects and he is terrible.
Dodgers are on a different level as an organization versus the Pirates in so many ways.
What? Dodgers never tired to trade for archerr.
Astick Dodger fans were wanting to trade for Archer is what he is saying
Yes they did (according to Mlb.com) last summer but wouldn’t give up 3 prospects. Wise decision
Shoulder surgery.
Jeez when it rains, It pours. Pirates pitchers just can’t catch a break
Maybe Francis can eat up some innings.
Who’s he? Jeff Francis hasn’t pitched in years…
Pope Francis. You fixed your typo. Too bad!
Lighten up Francis.
Go look at Archers 2017 pitch count log….27 games of 100+, and the guys been broken ever since.
Guy’s been “broken” since 2015 when he lost his only true plus pitch – his sinker – and 2016, when all the hitters adjusted to the new-look, lack of stuff Archer
At this point he’s at best a mid rotation type in front of a advanced analytical team, and at normal the disaster seen in his time in Pittsburgh.
Pirates should have known better trading for this guy; the issue was extremely easily detectable at the time of the deal
Seriously. This was incredibly bad scouting and management decision making.
GM Huntington has made some good trades, but this one was notorious for it’s ineptitude. May rank as one of the worst, most poorly researched trades of the past 20 years. This one will be on ‘worst trade’ lists for a long time going into the future. And no explanation by Huntington will ever excuse this trade.
Truly a crazy trade from day 1. Even if he would have won 10-12 with a 4.00 for 3 straight seasons the Pirates still gave up way too much
I think that from the way that he described the trade with enthusiasm that NH thought that Archer was a 15 game winner for three straight years with a 3.40 era.I will agree that he badly misjudged his ability.Archer May have the talent of a one or strong two,but clearly does not use it.
The plan was a good one if this were true.The Pirates had a good bullpen last year,and the addition of Kela cemented it as very good.
The rotation was good.Things were looking up for the Pirates.
Then 2019 started out well,but all phases have clearly underperformed the last half year,and especially since the AS break.
It is up to the GM to take major steps to refurbish this team in all areas,or he should be gone too.
The Pirates are clearly snakebitten.
Archer has been pitching fairly well his last three or four starts.
This year has only gotten worse and worse.
It is too bad for the team,the fans,and the city of Pittsburgh.It is a historic decline.
Pirates were left to die on the vine. All of the momentum from 2013 was allowed to stagnate and eventually decline. I knew it was over by the time they traded Neil Walker for Jon freaking Niese.
And they didn’t resign Happ.
I think that Happ was the only one from 2015-2016 that can be criticized rightfully.Eveyone gets on the Walker trade but he would have wanted a three year contract and with his back it was not going to happen.Look at his next three years now and see whether it would have been worth $45 M.
Signing Happ would have been going out on a limb and they do not do that.If you recall Happ suddenly became a fine pitcher under Ray’s tutelage,and they would have had to trust that the two month sudden improvement would last.
Team could have added solid players as depth without signing a 300m contract. Lack of depth everywhere has killed them.
Feel bad for the Pirates. The nightmare never seems to end for them. Reynolds is pretty much the only thing that has went right.
Well Reynolds and Bell.
Hey, we really only need a better catcher, an OF to replace the oft-injured Polanco, and about 4 new starting pitchers to be competitive in 2020. And a new manager. And GM. And owner. But hey, at least we have one of the nicest parks in baseball…
In other words, you’re the NL Angels – just without the best player in the game, of course
Oh, and the Big A sucks, so you have us there
Your right about the pitchers and catcher but our outfield is fine and Eppler has done a good job fixing what Dipoto messed up.
2 Outfield & 1 DH will cost the Angels 80 million, or 1/2 of their 2020 opening day payroll. He threw endless money at the problem to make it look less bad, but it merely created a new kind of huge problem (the cost of those 3 is why we cant afford to add real pitchers)
And 5 straight years of a 500 or lower Pythagorean record, yet still Eppler hasn’t fixed the farm system one bit outside one lucky find (who has less than 2 pro years played so far, and looks horrific in his first taste of AAA.) Otherwise every team in the system has a well under 500 ranking, with no prospects (but the 1) expected to be even league average production at best.
No problems fixed at all, just bandaids and a superficial kiss while hoping fans swallow the claim that the booboo is now better
Sorry for highjacking a Pirates thread talking about the Angels. LOL… one thing we can agree on is PNC park is a lot nicer than the big A. Do you think they have rats at PNC?
Angels management at least goes out and tries to get players.
They have been the poster team for starting pitcher injuries.
Both teams need pitchers.
Anaheim at least attracts free agents.I am beginning to see that Pittsburgh has become like it was-a place few good free agents want to go to even if the Pirates would pay.
“Do you think they have rats at PNC?”
Only in the press box.
And in the owner’s/GM’s boxes.
I doubt there are many rats because it’s very clean and well kept-after, but It is also right on the Allegheny River though, so there are certainly plenty of rats nearby. Allegheny River rats can be some big motherf&%$#$%, I’ve seen my share.
forwhomjoshbelltolls:
“Do you think they have rats at PNC?”
Only in the press box.
Agreed. the town’s talking head reporters & writers are bad*.
But not the announcing team, let’s be clear about that. If it werent for (Greg) Brownie, Blass, Walkie, Rock Wehner, & Block, I would have stopped following the games a long time ago. Those guys at least make the horror of how they’ve been pitching and playing this year bearable.
*(Theres a few good writers also at the Bucs Dugout site).
But you’ve got Mike Trout, reason enough to be a fan.
By talking about everything but the game on the field has spared the fans alot of misery..
You can add Kevin Newman and maybe Colin Moran as well.
Yeah aside from the Archer move, Neil Huntington has formed a pretty solid core.
Colin Moran’s WAR is .1 last time I looked.
Based on the old easy to judge ‘back of the baseball card’ kind of stats, his slugging is around .420, (decent enough) and his extra base power and run producing have been good.
I don’t care about war.
I just look at RBI’s, doubles, triples, homers, total bases, slugging percentage, hits, runs, on base pct., and batting avg.
And also the frequency of doubles, triples, homers and RBI’s relative to the amount of at-bats they have had.
I think this generation is unable to get a true picture of a players usefulness just because they are unable to extrapolate these stats like the previous generations were easily able to do in their heads just from seeing those numbers.
That is the problem with WAR,sometimes it does not pass the smell test.
I think it generally good to rank players in order,but sometimes makes no sense.
Moran should have a WAR much greater than 0.1 unless the dubious defensive metrics are really penalizing him for his below average fielding ability.
I think that it can be a good modern metric but I would have to get into the details of the calculation method to determine what may be at fault.
And don’t get me started on the Pythagorean Theorem!
Yes, and don’t forget about Jose Osuna.
If you adjust his numbers to 625 at bats (a typical full season), he would have 66 doubles, 41 homers, and 132 RBI’s.
That is elite power hitting and run producing, and let’s be honest, run producing it what its all about. It’s the main object of baseball.
That’s why I don’t care about the WAR statistic. At all.
At least Jose Osuna has become a good run producer. Now they have to find an everyday spot for him. He is a late bloomer like Bill Robinson & Mike Easler, and can provide a Bobby Bonilla type of hitting.
Henry-I think that Osuna will be vying for Polanco’s spot next year which will make tiredolddude happy.
Funny enough Archer has been giving me brain discomfort since the Pirates traded for him.
You should tell your employer you need to go on the IL retroactive to last summer with pay
Well at least that option decision just got easy.
Interesting point if this is a major physical setback.
He really has been pitching better since he decided to pitch his way.
But all of those innings may have finally added up.
Doubt it. Arcrher never was good. . Always medium. Not special. Artyfude was bad. Needs to put on wieght if he wants to last.
Needs to put on weight if he wants to last? I hope it doesn’t (for his sake) but if this injury means he’s done for the rest of the year then this season and his rookie season in 2013, excluding his cup of coffee in 2012, are the only two years of his career he threw less than 145 innings. Archer has had a lot of problems manifest that have negatively affected his performance the past 2-3 years but being able to take the mound and throw the ball hasn’t been one of them.
I think that it could be the reverse of the Cutch hair jinx. The moment Cutch cut his, he began declining while the longer Archer grows his, the worse he pitches. Not scientific but prove me wrong.
You’d think. It’s a shame because he was looking less horrible as of late
His brain has had discomfort
the whole time he’s been in
Pittsburgh!
But these are the Pirates
Mr. Miller. $9 million
dollars is top of the
line for them…..
That trade was terrible
It’s one thing for Searage to not be able to work with young aces, the Pirates don’t have many of those.
But…when Trevor Williams and Joe Musgrove regress the way they have…not much can be said in his defense.
New eyes seem to be needed.
Searage magic touch was a farce.
He “worked” with its that had previous success. Liriano, Burnett, Happ, Nova all had been good before and all struggled in tougher AL divisions before coming to a down NL Central and revitalizing with the Pirates.
Name a single young arm or reclamation project that he actually did anything for? I’ll hang up and listen.
(Also, when there is a serious discussion than Brault is their best arm, is damning of the entire organization)
Musgrove has had a decent enough year. His won-lost stats can be disregarded as he has been screwed out of a lot of wins this year. His main numbers are good – equal or less hits than innings pitched, and strikeout to walk ratio is good too.
Josh-That is not all on Ray.He may need to be replaced,but these pitchers need to understand that they need to produce.Not enough of an emphasis is put on that throughout the whole organization,including Hurdle.I think that that was David Freese’s point early last year.
Searage has been good with pitchers coming to the Pirates,but does not seem to have the same positive input with the young pitchers.He may not be flexible enough with them.
Musgrove has been hot and cold.
Let’s be honest and say that we were very pleasantly surprised with Trevor Williams last year,especially the second half.Needless to say,he has regressed.
I am not saying that Ray has not been part of the problem,but I think it unfair to overly criticized him for it.
i figured there was some possibly he could return when traded to Pittsburgh, but giving up Meadows, as oft-injured as he is, was not worth it on its own, much less with Baz on top (Glasnow aside; he didnt really have any value to Pittsburg. he wasnt doing anything there anyways)
That’s alternately ridiculous and hilarious. In one year, the Pirates FO jettisoned their vets and associated contracts AND sent away 3 of its best prospects to possibly—possibly—make a run for a WC
This is management that clearly has no plan. That it hits the bargain bin each year in the winter for guys like Lyles and Chisenhall just reinforce what a con job ownership is foisting on fans
And now your pearls of wisdom
While you’re correct in saying the trade stunk from the start, calling Meadows oft-injured made me blow coffee through my nose. Did you mean Polanco? And saying Glasnow had no place in Pittsburgh—a kid who often hit 100 on the gun—should be another reflection on Searage and management. How do you give up on this kid so quickly but keep guys like Nick Kingham?
This is a joke of a franchise and since Nutting will make millions despite losing and despite subpar attendance should tell us that it’s not only here to stay, but they could bring Leyland, LaRussa and Theo Epstein here and nothing would change
I never understood the hype over Archer in TB and now that he’s here, it’s just even more clear.
As a Bucco fan living in Tampa I had mixed emotions about the trade. The hype over Archer was fabricated but still was hoping for a win win. It’s been painful watching Archer but pleasant watching Meadows and Glasnow.
For all of the shortcomings and bad decisions of this front office, and they are legion, I cannot add getting rid of Glasnow to the list. I watched him throw up on himself enough times and now he cannot pitch at all.
Guess this is where actual coaching comes in. How did Glasnow suddenly find himself as a Ray? Magic? For that matter, how did Charlie Morton? Your point is well taken if he’s been with the club for years and has had scattered success. But a 24 year old who is hitting 99-100 on the gun???
I don’t know how he “suddenly found himself” as a Ray. My point is, it’s not like they didn’t give him ample opportunities; he repeatedly soaked the sheets here. Better pitching coach, change of scenery, less pressure, idk.
Remember too that Morton stopped off at Philadelphia before arriving in Houston.
Glasgow said that it was a change that Searage made that he finally understood and started using confidently that made him a better pitcher.
Sometimes just changing teams can trigger improvement.
Morton was a good pitcher on the Pirates but he was always hurt.They traded him to the Phillies for a bag of balls,like they did with Nova this year,and Morton pulled a muscle after four starts and did not pitch again.
He was never all that highly touted.He learned something with the Astros,but most importantly,stayed healthy.
It is important to look at these cases in an objective manner.
For what it is worth,Glasgow had such a high ceiling that I thought that the Pirates could have given him one more chance.
That’s fair Mendoza Line, fair indeed.
This is going to turn out okay for the Buccos front office. Now they can decline the option and say that the injury prevented him from returning to form. Some sort of justification to their fan base that losing Meadows and Glasnow would have looked better if Archer was healthy.
Think how much money they can save by replacing him with Holmes in the rotation.
I think that they should have given Holmes a shot at starting..For instance,Brault is a much better starter than a reliever.I think that Holmes has clearly shown that he is not a ML reliever,but now the Pirates need starters.Maybe he only has two pitches and needs a third,but find out if he wants to start and work with him.
If they are pigeon holing people they are not maximizing their potential.
As a Astros fan, it sucks Archer got hurt, but hoping it’s not anything to serious. I can remember as if it was the last trade deadline, when the Astros were interested in Archer. Maybe 3 years ago, anyways liked him then, and hope he can regain his stuff.
Thank you Jason.It is refreshing to see positive posters about the Pirates on this website.
Too many of us have become jaded with this organization,and rightfully so.
This thing wont accept my comments any more. Did I get banned?
I didn’t even get to say that the Media, Big Tech, Google and the Deep State are aligned with Antifa and are trying to destroy the United States as we know it.
At least ban me for something legit.
I’d rather go out swingin’!
Don’t forget about the Vril, Reptilians, Aliens, moon bases, the Denver airport, Bigfoot and MKUltra.
This was a bad trade if Archer came over and pitched well… the fact he has carpet bombed only makes it a horrendous trade… but if anything the fact that Cole and Glasnow, and even Morton, have left and shown is that the Pirates pitch to contact no matter what philosophy does not work with all pitchers. Hopefully a change is made in time to save Keller…
Archer has been pitching much better using his old philosophy of pitching.Charlie Manuel is telling the Phillies hitters that one method of hitting does not fit all.Perhaps the Pirates coaching staff needs to be less dogmental in their teaching beliefs.