In a rather surprising turn, the Phillies have announced that hitting coach John Mallee has been “relieved … of his duties.” He’ll be replaced by none other than Charlie Manuel, the club’s grizzled former skipper. MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki first tweeted the news.
It’s a decidedly old-school turn for the uber-contemporary Phils. There are some echoes here of a move earlier this year by the division-rival Mets, who installed the 82-year-old Phil Regan as pitching coach and have seemingly benefited from the move. Manuel, 75, has remained a visible figure in the Phillies organization since finishing his time as the manager, but has not occupied a rigorous, everyday role. It seems likely he’ll only be asked to man his new post for the remainder of the present season.
There’s little question the Phillies are in need of a jolt. They’ve steadily slipped behind the Braves, Nats, and Mets since holding the NL East lead in mid-June. Now, the Philadelphia club is separated from postseason position by two games and multiple other teams.
Manuel has long been lauded for his hitting acumen, so he’ll be asked to help the club’s batters with their mechanics and approach. That’s certainly an area of need, given that the Phillies have collectively produced at a mediocre 90 wRC+ clip over the past thirty days. But it seems this move says as much about a need for veteran grit and gravitas as it does a desire to modify the organization’s batting tutelage. And it’s a clear sign that Phillies upper management is not pleased with the way the season has progressed after a winter chock full of big investments.
Harper is awful
Anything original to post?
Harper is awful
Haha. Not very original
Harper is the reason the owners went on strike in 1994. They saw a player like this destroying baseball. His marketing team deserves that money. His whole career is nothing but hype. Cleveland has like 8 players better than this dude
Let’s hear these 8 players.
Lindor
Ramirez
Santana
Puig
Mercado already showing to be a better all around player.
Reyes is already a better power hitter in his first pro year.
Kipnis on avg they have similar numbers but kip was oft injured during that time. When he’s healthy Kipnis is a superior offensive player then Harp and has above avg glove at 2B
Perez – over 20 hrs as catcher with a month and a half to go. Harper usually has 24 – 27 hr playing the outfield for the whole season
Lordy
This is so far from being accurate. It’s hard to say opinions are wrong, but this is so far wrong.
Hahaha. Thanks for the laugh.
PSA- Nam has just lost all credibility. Do not take any of their posts seriously moving forward.
The Phillies will relieve you of Lindor I short order.
Thanks for the laugh nam.
Say no to drugs
Lol
I stand by my original post but you just put Puig on a list ahead of Harper. wow dude go get your helmet and sit in the corner
No way that Nam is even an Indians fan.
Nam, quite embarrassing the Tribe fan base with such claims. Lindor is an absolute gem but it ends there.
If you honestly believe Yasiel Puig is better than Bryce Harper…..
Nevermind
I’m an Indians fan and I was actually embarrassed for Nam. I might go with Lindor and Ramirez but Kipnis??? Perez??? Mercado??? Sad.
Nam sometimes it’s ok to say “maybe I overstated it a bit lol but Bryce is overrated” when being called out. All of us have been guilty in overstating in our lives. That was a lot but can add emphasis I would have left it at that. I think you knew it just should have said it lol. You’re good in my eyes man just be careful guys on here are on the lookout for these comments
What’s destroying baseball is the over analytics, high strikeout rate, and the fact that starters can’t get through the 5th inning. Let’s not mention the fact that the pitching (or lack thereof) is extremely watered down AND let’s not forget the whole juiced ball thing.
Yeah, I’m sure Harper is really destroying baseball *smh*
Amen to that!
analytics is the reason why Harper is making what he’s making. He damn sure isn’t during it on the field. Dude is a .249 25 hr hitter. Just a hype train, Vlad Guerrero Jr. Is already the better player then Harper is.
Guerrero Jr’s numbers are right on line with Harper’s from his rookie year. And statistically, no, Guerrero is not better than Harper this year. Harper will get close to 40 doubles, 30 HR and 100 RBI this year.
It’s the pitching clock. The pitchers can’t adjust and giving up too many long balls
Destroying baseball is way too harsh. However, it is hard to discount that a guy that got marketed and over-hyped at age 18 is not part of the problem with competitive balance in the game. $330 Million? Take a look at Arenado’s #s not to mention the glove he has and tell me Harper is on the same playing field. But, Arenado does it in some shroud of obscurity based on market size. Arenado took a discount to stay home. Harper was not ready at training camp holding out until the Phillies delivered on their promise to spend “stupid money.” In a juiced ball era, a guy sold to us as Ruthian can only muster 22 HRs in mid August? Rather sad production when you also see the 137 times he went to the plate and failed to make contact. The guy makes childish remarks like “That’s a clown question, bro” and ESPN eats it up so he gets more media attention. He wears stupid phanatic cleats to show he is all about the fans but he couldn’t care less. It’s all an act for marketing. But while I’m typing this, I realized – Harper is not bad for baseball. The Phillies are. For paying him that absurd money for the above league average production. 22 home runs in a juiced ball era where Jorge Soler has 34? $330 million? Tough pill to swallow. Kind of a clown contract, bro.
Take Arenado out of Coors and he’s just a slightly better than average hitter with a great glove. 985 OPS at home. 791 on the road.
Kind of a clown statement bro
I forgot what a great pitching park Citizens Bank Park is, LOL …… 81 home games in CBP pretty close to 81 at Coors, especially for a power hitter that does not not routinely hit for average like Harper.
Compelling. I’ll let that soak in a bit before my rebuttal
“Arenado took a discount to stay home”. Really. So an AAV of $35 million for the next 5 years is a discount? That’s what starting pitchers make
Stanton has a higher AAV and can’t stay on the field
“Harper is not bad for baseball, the Phillies are”. Again, Really?!
To sign a 26 year old with an AAV of about $26 million (less than what other positional players) make while leaving the team financial flexibility to extend and add talent in the years to come. But sure, the Phillies are what’s bad about baseball. Stop
And if you want to sit and criticize “absurd money for above league average production”, look up the contracts of Chris Davis, Miguel Cabrera, Jason Heyward, Albert Pujols and Jacoby Ellsbury
Jake Taylor, Roger Dorn, Willie Mays Hays, and Pedro Cerrano to name a few.
Best comment yet. Kuddos.
Yeah. This is gold.
A major league comment!
Who would have thunk. Pedro Cerrano not only because President. But now he sits on a couch in the middle of an intersection talking about All State insurance
Became *
Don’t forget he was saving America when he was in the Seals.
That Indian club should have been the inspiration for moneyball. Jessica brings in a bunch of players off the scrap heap to make it all the way to beat a very good Yankees club to get into the playoffs. Dorn takes over and signs Parkman. Can’t find his ops stats or anything but safe to say he was overrated due to his power numbers and likely faired poorly getting on base, putting the ball in play, and his defense was likely lackluster. Jessica ships him to New York because she knows better. Team takes off again. Don’t believe what they portray in the movies that’s when truly statistical analysis was born
2.6 fWAR is the mark you’ve set. You have two hitters above the mark (Lindor and Santana) and two pitchers (Bieber and the traded Bauer). So you only have 4 players who are or were on the Indians who have done better than Harper this year.
No the eye test is what I set. Not some crap about a player winning more games then his back up. Foh
Not that I agree at all with his statement, but fWAR is hardly the only stat to determine that.
Nam, if you set your own personal eye test, how is this even an argument? I could say, by my eye test, the sugarland skeeters are all better than Bryce Harper and it would have the same validity.
But did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?
I have a good eye doctor for you.
Harper was born in 1992
…I remember, this one time, at band camp…
Philadelphia teams always chase athletes with household name recognition. Mostly because it’s the easiest (laziest) way to evaluate talent. They also try to compete with NY and Boston for the spotlight in the northeast, and suffer from low self-esteem as a result. They had no business going after Harper because he’s severly overrated. They also didn’t have enough talent on the roster to justify such a large fin͏a͏ncial commitment to one player. Gonna be a long 12 years in Philly if they don’t figure out how to evaluate to draft better talent.
Lastly, there are atleast 50 better position players who are better players than Harper. Heck, there are 20 better OFs than Harper. That’s what makes his contract so dumb and ridiculous. He deserved (maybe) half of what he got. It’s laughable that he got so much more money than Machado, who is a superior player.
“Philadelphia teams always chase athletes with household name recognition mostly because it’s the easiest (laziest) way to evaluate talent”
How’d that Adam Dunn signing work out for the Sox again?
And spare the “severely overrated” comment. Come up with something better and more original.
“They didn’t have enough talent on the roster to justify such a large financial commitment”. What are you talking about? Didn’t they sign Harper AFTER they acquired Segura, McCutchen and Realmuto? And his contract is structured to leave the team solid financial flexibility to add and or extend talent.
so do you feel dumb after days like today when harper dominated? it seems to me that all you haters suck at math. harper is making 25 million a season. that’s a fair salary for a guy with his impact. he’s not mike trout and he’s not making trout dollars. also have you geniuses looked at WPA for this year? harper is fifth in all of baseball. the guy is driving in an absurd number of runs in relatively few opportunities. he has been the most clutch hitter in the entire sport.
So are the Brewers. Your point?
Harper isn’t what’s causing the problems for the Phillies right now. I can only imagine how bad this lineup would be this year without Harper…
They’d have 330 million more to spend on the team instead of the dude hitting .250 in right field.
And to spend on who exactly.
maybe upgrading the rotation/bullpen that i constantly hear Phillies fans complain about. they were in a great spot last offseason to really make some great pitching moves and they did not get anyone. I would love for my team to have the cap space like they do. Keuchel and Miley were out there and could have gotten them. Phillies went for the “splash” move instead this offseason and got Harper. I was mostly kidding when i said Harper was awful its just funny to trigger people lol. Braves made smart moves as did the Nats. Phillies just went out there and tried to buy the biggest names because they could. The Braves did not panic and made some very smart moves and it is paying off. Call me a Harper hater but i truly think for the money this dude is making in comparison to the production, it is a ridiculous overpay. He is still young and can live up to the contract but my bet is that the Phils are going to be begging someone to take this contract in another 3-4 seasons.
They were in the finals to land Patrick Corbin but didn’t offer that extra year the Nationals did. Dallas Keuchel originally wanted a lucrative 5 year contract which you don’t give to a pitcher on the other side of 30. That’s what cripples you financially. Just ask them about Jake Arrieta (not that his contract financially crippled them)
Their bullpen has been decimated by injuries so there’s not much “complaining” there
.250 is the new .310. Sad, isn’t it?
fifth in all of baseball in WPA. who cites average anymore?? you must be over the age of 50.
I like this move
I miss hearing quotes from Charlie.
Gabe is hilarious but in a WTF way…Charlie will breathe some fresh air into that clubhouse….
He hasn’t breathed fresh air anywhere since 2009.
…when you hire a 75-year-old man to bring fresh air into a clubhouse…
I wonder if Charlie is wearing depends underwear yet?
it all depends
It’s about time!
Charlie was one of the best hitting coaches I ever saw.
Manny Rameriz and Jim Thome would have been lucky to bounce around the majors for 4 years had it not been for Charlie. And they always gave him credit for making him the hitters they became.
This is the first good move I’ve seen the yuppie Philly GM make. The owner probably forced him into it. Expect he wants Charlie to try to talk some sense into the manager as well.
Unfortunately, the biggest problems with the Phillies are the pitching and defense.
The Phillies have a manager on their staff in case Kapler can’t get the job done.
In case he can’t? what more proof do you need?
He was given a trashy rotation wnd his entire bullpen got hurt. The problem has always been klentak
Klentak and Gabe deserve each other – preferably somewhere else.
Lol the guy has had bad rosters for two years and is a .500 manager. He’s fine.
His team’s record is 76-86 in their last 162 games. Time for Gabe to go.
Reminds me of when they made Michael Scott co-manager with Jim. Look at how well that turned out. smh
REJOICE!
Hiring a 75 yr old former WS manager isn’t the long term answer, but the philosophy at least will change….I can hear Charlie talkin’ to Hoskins now, “…son how many times do think it’s a good idear’ to let a straight 95mph fastball go by ya….?”
Thank you…
Jays brought back Gaston to be Hitting Coach. They hit pretty well during his tenure.
Rumor for him getting let go by the Cubs was his habit of buying women of the night while on road trips.
I’m gonna assume you’re talking about Mallee not Manuel
At his age, what the heck was he doing with them????????????? Just because the dog catches the bus, doesn’t mean he can drive it…..
Worst. Analogy. Ever.
Only took until August 13th. How about we let him manage too.
Hey, at least you fired the actual hitting coach, we (Cards) just fired the assistant hitting coach.
Is Larry Bowa also interested in an expanded role again?
Yes! Bowa is exactly what this team needs to get them moving. No more California BS, just good, old school hard work and motivation.
Funny, Bowa was born in Cali….but to the son of a former player and manager.
California was a different place when Bowa was born.
How about Utley as Manager and Jamie Moyer as pitching coach. Back up the truck and pay these guys whatever it takes! They have a baseball sense/IQ. Kapler and Yound are Freakin Clowns!! Wake up Philly
i was thinking it would be a good idea for Bowa to be the interim manager for a week to jolt the team into playing better and then put in Dusty Wathan or someone else for the rest of the season. unrealistic, but something that might work.
It’s about time they make a change to there coaching staff. If Kapler doesn’t work out they have great replacement. Go Charlie!
it must be weird for Manuel to be back in the same place he had a lot of success with a lesser role
Probably not. Charlie is down on the field almost every day during BP. He’s got a relationship with these players. Perhaps he can teach them how to level out their swings and just make solid, hard contact rather than a HR,K, or infield pop-up.
When you get a flat tire, the first thing you do is change your sparkplugs…..the Phillies are just weird……
Manuel in Philly, Regan with the Mets….MLB is trying to appeal to the young……
Or save their main fanbase.
i dont think you change an assistant coach simply to “appeal to the young.” theres a bit more at stake here as far as the average fan is concerned.
Coincidentally enough, John Mallee was fired just before his former Cubs team begins a 3-game series in Philadelphia. Mallee is a native Chicagoan who was Joe Maddon’s first hitting coach after he was hired on October 9th, 2014 just before the manager “officially” opted out of his Rays gig when then GM Andrew Friedman departed Tampa. The opt-out clause in Maddon’s contract was triggered when Friedman left and the Cubs hired the “Genius” on November 2nd after previously promising Rick Renteria would return as their manager for the 2015 season.
Offensive production during Mallee’s tenure from 2015 through 2017 prove that he was the Cubs best hitting coach under Maddon. The Cubs ultimately replaced Mallee in 2018 when they hired Chili Davis who was a disaster on the North Side of Chicago. Davis was replaced by this season by advanced analytic guru Anthony Iopace but the Cubs offense continues to be their #1 problem, at least in terms of consistency and clutch performance.
*Anthony Iapoce*.
Are you suggesting they will hire him back or should?
Not necessarily, just offering some background and stating facts.
Anybody who has read my posts over the years, particularly Chicago baseball fans, already know that I can’t stand Joe Maddon and felt that Rick Renteria was shafted by the Cubs in the process. For the record, Renteria was terminated on October 31, 2014, one week after Maddon opted out of his contract with the Tampa Bay Rays. That’s on the front office and also a manager who was actively campaigning for a peers job.
I would also point out that I am a lifelong fan of both the Cubs and White Sox and don’t have an axe to grind either way. What I can offer is that the Cubs loss involving Renteria is now the White Sox gain.
The Cubs have had a revolving door of all position coaches the past 3 years. Some due to promotion like Dave Martinez. The issue is not position/hitting coaches like Davis or Mallee but with players that are not as good as the Cub’s organization believes.
Same can be said of the Phillies organization as well. At least the Cubbies have a trophy in the last 10 years.
and the Phillies do in the last 11 years !
Yeah, this is true. However,I said back in November of 2008 that I would be happy for 10 years now that a parade went down Braod St.
Here we are 11 years later and 8 of them have been below mediocrity.
I’ve been patient, but now it’s time to start winning again.
Outside of ownership, the only constant during this “revolving door of all position coaches” has been manager Joe Maddon and the front office headed by Theo Epstein. Many players have remained but not all. Generally speaking the manager has priority with the selection of his coaching staff which would seem to put the blame mostly on “Genius Joe”.
Well that is something. I wonder if John Kruk is available to consult as well.
Lifetime .300 hitter. He might be a good consultant.
and I’d hire Ricky Bottalico as pitching coach!
yeah, surpised they got rid of him so quickly. have to assume it was beyond performance.
Is someone helping Chris Young pack his bags too?
Carlos Ruiz perhaps? He’d be a better pitching coach than CY.
Mallee is the Phillies sacrificial lamb for purpose of satisfying the fan base. Unfortunately the ineptness of the Phillies belongs to the entire staff. The staff of twelve plus members of the team R&D cannot process the info necessary to improve the existing players as well as the failure of a the coaching staff to utilize the acquired knowledge and put it into a productive performance by its players. The atmosphere of the clubhouse along with a non-working baseball philosophy will continue to spell disaster. Contracts are exceedingly high, the medical staff has failed in reviewing players conditions prior to signing and John Middleton needs better baseball advisers in all aspects of the game. MLB might be making money but it’s only because of selling product to new markets. At home because of their lack of respect for baseball, the game is hurting. It’s time for fans and the players to “Balls Up” and take back our game, America’s Game!!
Amen !
there’s no way a lineup with the players it has in it should be hitting this bad, and its not reasonable to believe that everyone is responsible. Malee’s job is to oversee and improve the team’s hitting, something that’s well regressed this year despite the addition of numerous generally good hitters. if you fire anyone, it at least starts with him.
“Manuel is expected to simplify the Phillies’ offensive approach, something manager Gabe Kapler acknowledged in June had become too complex. It might be why the team has struggled to hit fastballs in the strike zone. They have a .336 wOBA (25th in baseball) and a .504 slugging percentage (25th) against fastballs in the zone. To put that into perspective, the Phillies had a less talented offense under former hitting coach Matt Stairs in 2017, but had a .342 wOBA (17th) and a .505 slugging percentage (20th) against fastballs in the zone.” https://www.mlb.com/phillies/news/charlie-manuel-returns-as-phillies-hitting-coach
One more time…. Manuel is expected to simplify the Phillies’ offensive approach, something manager Gabe Kapler acknowledged in June had become too complex.”
Gee Gabe……ya think?
Can you imagine the front office analytics geeks presenting various charts, graphics and other techno data on a laptop to old Charlie? And him responding … “where’s the ‘on’ button?”
Goes to show how far teams like Astros and Dodgers are ahead of the rest. They are heavy on analytics but know how to deliver the info without being a slave to the numbers.
I always thought Kapler would have been better served as a bench coach under a Charlie Manuel type to begin his career……This may have helped Kapler learn to be able to go with his gut on occasion….?
Phillies replaced wrong guy – Kapler overmatched . Bochy made him look like a kid in SF – Front Office needs to admit it was a mistake hiring Kapler . Pitching Coach,Hitting Coach have been replaced – the Manager signs off on those moves. Players know what is going on – they don’t respect the Manager.
I’ll take Mallee on the White Sox! Todd Steverson is not getting it done.
Sigh!
Kapler pitched to red hot Pilar when Crawford (ice cold) was on deck..a triple later, the game was lost..Alex Rodriguez said at the time, horrible managerial move.
First, the hitting philosophy has been to get “launch” angle and take pitches..that’s why so many pop flys, pop-ups, and roll over ground balls into double plays. This move is long long over due..Not sure Charlie is the guy, but can’t hurt..just way late..
Oh, while I’m at it, the pitching coach needs to go also…why you ask? because they decided they wanted the Phillies starters to pitch up in the zone..unfortunately, they don’t have the talent to pitch up there…because of that, the Phillies are in position to set a record for home runs given up…they lead all of baseball in giving up the long ball..none of the 29 other teams are even close..
Hi Dads….been a frustrating season again….It’s rough to watch Krapler day in and day out saying the same rah rah nonsense, he really just has to disappear into the front office somewhere and we replace him with someone who is willing to go :”Dallas Green” on the clubhouse when it’s needed….Nice to see Charlie back, must’ve been Middleton’s call….can’t imagine Klentak wanting an old school antianalytic guy to be showing the team how baseball should be played and expose this nonsense for what it is…
mod, this is a talented team..the starting 8 is very good even with Cutch going down..they have the worst approach ever at bats..so many runners left in scoring position…
this may sound crazy but it’s time to hire Pete Rose as hitting coach. that guy knew how to hit.
LOL…except he is banned from ML baseball…
The philosophy of “get’em on, get’em over, get’em in” is lost in today’s game. Only rarely is it applied and it’s killing baseball.
The Phillies played that small ball in Game 1 against the D-Backs. They were stealing, bunting, and sacrificing guys over to manufacturer runs. That baseball is so much fun to watch.
Watching the poor AB’s you mention is as fun as watching paint dry.
no quality hitting coach, so Rhys Hoskins is a dead pull hitter who has not made a single adjustment…every pitcher he faces pitches him outside and he still tries to pull everything…..not once have we phans heard of anyone working with him to adjust…
Uneducated baseball fan : Harper sucks he must be the problem. (He has like the 3rd best averge in baseball with runners in scoring position) (you state this because you want to be a part of a conversation though clueless)
Smart fan : the Phillies are on pace to give up more home runs then any team in the history of baseball. I think that might have a little more to do with the Phillies issues then super clutch Harper who will finish with 100+rbi and has one of best on base % in game.. Just a guess though.
nobody really feels bad for the Phillies. They talk about all this money that they have and how they are going to put together some super team and only really seem to upgrade the offense? I firmly believe that the Phillies would be running away with the East with significant upgrades to the rotation last offseason. They let Keuchel go to the Braves which could have significantly shifted the power of the east–hes a big game pitcher. They could have made some interesting trades and pulled a Will Smith in at the deadline, or traded for Stroman. Phils GM seems to still be living on the high of the Harper signing, or maybe he ran out of money and should close his mouth about how much they are going to spend.
Oh shiiii. Could be good news, but I’m more excited to watch infinity war and endgame back to back.
The Phillies under Pete Mackanin,slow starts and strong finishes.Phillies under Kapler,good starts and choke in the end.Hopefully they eventually get it right.
And for all you Harper haters,i can’t wait for next year,after he goes through a normal offseason without figuring out where he’ll end up playing.
Phillies dismiss live Pitching Coach, will instead use MANUEL !!
sometimes you gotta do things by the book!
It’s crazy that once McCutchen went down, the team started to slide. Crazy how a “washed up old man” can still help a club when on the field.
Having Charlie in the dugout helped bring the players bats alive. Why not use some former Phillies players like Ricky Battaico, Jimmy Rollins
or Ryan Howard as coaches.