Major League Baseball is working to implement another change to the rules governing injured list placements, per Jon Heyman of MLB Network (Twitter link). Teams will now operate under separate rules for hitters and pitchers.
Hitters will continue to have a ten-day minimum injury-list placement. That’s a continuation of the change made in 2016, which dropped the number of days from the preexisting fifteen.
Pitchers, however, will go back to the prior 15-day placement if the rule is finalized. That will raise the bar for placing hurlers on the IL but help to tamp down some of the rather obvious abuses of the system that had cropped up.
It’s not yet clear precisely how some other roster rules will change. There has been prior indication that MLB would look into increasing the length of the minimum time an optioned player must stay down before being summoned back to the big leagues.
The overall goal here, clearly, is to avoid some of the roster hijinks that are used to churn through arms. While there are legitimate health and performance reasons to cycle pitchers, there’s also a point at which there can be a harm to the on-field product as well as to individual players.
Any changes of this nature will need to be done in coordination with the MLB Players Association. Other major rule changes that were agreed upon previously are already set to go into effect for the 2020 season.
now that’s a rule change we can all believe in
I completely agree with you. I’m going to read the rest of the comments to see if there is a dissenting view.
I liked the idea of allowing catchers to leave the game, be evaluated for a concussion, and be permitted to go back in the game if cleared.
Idk, there’s some gray area with that, in my opinion. For me to truly get behind that, I would want to make sure the medical staff has no ties nor affiliation with either participating team.
All across professional sports, there have been several team doctors and members of a team’s medical staff that’s openly expressed feeling pressure to clear players and allow them to get back on the field as soon as possible..
So, if possible, I’d like to see that rule implemented, if and only if MLB has an independent concussion specialist examine the catcher in question..Now, I don’t have a clue how they’d do that..Maybe they could assign a concussion specialist to each umpiring crew, and he follow them around from series to series??
Not a bad idea, but why limit it to catchers? I get that a majority of scenarios involve catchers taking backswings or foul balls to the head/mask, but what about batters who get plunked in the helmet, or if Jose Canseco’s fielding flyballs with his head.
Ok
Now delete the rule about a pitcher being required to face at least 3 hitters. Dumbest rule ever.
No, I don’t think so. The pitching changes are ridiculous, especially in September/playoffs. There’s no reason a lefty who goes in to face a lefty hitter can’t get two righties out behind him. I’m all for it, though it might destroy the hopes for my future career as a LOOGY.
Agreed. It’s bad enough before the rosters expand but come September it’s silly. Having pitching changes after each hitter is painful.
Can someone please tell me what the letter “Y” stands for in the term LOOGY?
Nothing, or maybe the last letter as Lefty One Out GuY. But seems more just like adding a y to a short-hand term, similar to how how a lefty is short for left handed and a righty is short for right handed.
It’s for when you hock a LOOGY, lol.
I’m not sure if the Y in the word guy is represented in the word loogy. Always thought it was an add on like for example- Joe Joey or Bill Billy. Instead of loog which sounds crude, when you add a Y it sounds friendly and cool.. Loogy. Hey Loog. Hey Loogy. Not even close.
It’s a stupid rule. If you want to limit pitching changes, then limit the number of pitchers. Say 11 on an active roster. It’s insane when you have 13 man staffs nowadays. Come September maybe allow only 3 additional active players of which no more than 2 can be pitchers.
If you really want to speed the game up, limit commercials on TV. I’ve read stories where some players are frustrated that they have to wait to start the next inning.
But please leave the basic rules of the game alone.
uhmm, they already are limiting pitchers on a roster and limiting September call-ups to just two additional.
My only problem with the 3 batter rule is it could give an advantage to the hitting team. Say they are facing a tough left handed starter and sit some left handed hitters that don’t hit as well as right handers. They take him out to start the 7th and If the hitting team pinch hits for the 2nd or 3rd batter because they like that match up better now why should the team on defense not be allowed to try and counter that move? If they amend the rule to 3 batters, end of the inning or a pinch hitter enters the game I would be fine with it.
Holy moly! I didn’t even consider the three batter minimum rule change until now but I think that may be a BIG part if the reason the Braves were willing to give draft compensation and pay $40 million to Will Smith. Not only did they have a serious lack of left handed relief pitching but they realized that they were going to need a lefty that could get out at least 2 eighties after they brought him in. Rumor has it that they are not going to use Will Smith as the everyday “closer” but use him when they feel he is best suited to be in the game.
It didn’t occur to me until now but bringing in a LOOGY (like Jerry Blevins) and making him face multiple righties would be a disaster. I kind of don’t like this rule and I’m sure LOOGY’s like Jerry Blevins hate it but if a team needs a left handed reliever that has to face at least 3 batters I can’t think of anyone better than Will Smith off the top of my head to do it. At the very least I know for a fact that their is no better left handed relief pitcher on the free agent market suited for this task than Will Smith. What do you all think? Was that a factor?
Ok do they have to play for three hitters or face 3 hitters ? Or can you hide them in say right field for a batter or two?
It is 3 batters or the end of an inning. I don’t think there’s an exception for pinch hitters though.
There isn’t currently and I think that is what makes it an unfair rule. The hitting team already gets to pinch hit for the batter after a new pitcher is announced and the rule as is now would extend it so you could pinch hit for any of the next 3 hitters and the pitching team isn’t allowed to adjust to the other teams change.
Only if you think your right fielder is a better pitcher for those two batters. If that is the case, then maybe you should question whether that pitcher belongs on your big league team in the first place.
Michael Lorenzen
Of course you can’t expect all lefties to get two righties out! That’s why we have LOOGYs in the first place! This rule clearly hurts the careers of the majority of left-handed relievers, as even many of them who aren’t strictly LOOGY class still carry significant platoon splits.
Besides, we no longer have to worry about a ridiculous number of pitching changes in September, anyway.
Oof. I didn’t realize that’s going to be a rule next year. I suspect it will not last.
if they want younger fans, they should stick to playing hiphop and EDM music during the pregame & making idiotic references to social media and mobile phones. the wealthy owners and media are so out of touch. these dumb rule changes won’t change a thing about the fan base.
Ok boomer.
Dumbest insult ever.
I’d say that was a Gen-X person typing like a millennial might and utilizing faux ironic outrage.
nice try but his point is actually correct
man, u good
“And get off my lawn, you whippersnapper!”
It’s “young whippersnapper”. Get the terminology right you Gen Z.
And turn the house music back up
No one yells at young whippersnappers better than Kramer through a screen door in his apartment building.
actually it will change one thing, and that’s make current fans uninterested
@Braves 2015
Doubtful. First of all, most current fans are the ones needing the updates. The game is too slow for most current fans to actually watch, at the stadium or at home. They follow it casually on Gamecast or in the box scores. When they do go to games, they need all kinds of distractions to keep their attention. When they watch from home, they’re eyeing their iPhones on every pitch.
Mo – Now you’re starting to talk as though you’ve surveyed people who watch baseball. Most of what you’re saying is conjecture. I believe you’re coloring “most current fans” with how you feel about the game and assume they all agree with you. Anyone who fits into your description isn’t a true fan of the game in my opinion, and are looking for entertainment of any kind. Most people I know and talk with about baseball enjoy the game in its purest form. The “fans” you described are lukewarm entertainment seekers who won’t be loyal to the game of baseball. I don’t think they make up the majority.
Have them play night ball, the baseball glow in the dark the batters wear glow in dark wristbands, bats and batting helmets. That oughta get the young ones into it
@The Law Abides
okay Boomer.
(It’s not a matter of age. It’s a matter of what is culturally compelling… Plenty of Boomers put of by all the delays)
Yes. That is a stupid rule.
I hate that rule.
Sorry, 4, 5, 6, 7 or more pitching changes a game is simply intolerable to watch for the average person. Those who can watch it are a very small minority who cannot support the game on their own. I don’t like the implications of the three batter rule but I absolutely support it for practical reasons. Some problems simply need to be solved even if the solution’s clumsy.
When watching a game, is those pitching changes that slows the game down so much? I’m not arguing it doesn’t; but r/t pace of play, batters stepping out of the box on nearly every single pitch seems to much more time to the game. I haven’t studied it, just feels that way on TV and if you do the math on pitches per game vs pitching changes, it seems logical.
But how much of a batter’s need to step correlates to facing a fresh reliever dealing high heat and wicked sliders to begin the 6th? Definitely to some degree, but the rampant stepping out of batter’s box is quite excessive.
Are* / slow*
Paddy – To me, I don’t care. It’s all gamesmanship. I like it when a batter steps out or a pitcher steps off to get inside the opponents head. It’s all strategy.
@phl447
“I like it when a batter steps out or a pitcher steps off to get inside the opponents head. It’s all strategy.”
But you’re a very small percentage of the baseball watching populace. People like you are not enough to support the game. Hence the change.
I know Mo. People have no patience for the little nuances.
@phl447
Ok. True. We’re communicating.
Except it’s not a small minority of fans who enjoy the tradition game and all the strategy involved. It’s most of the fans. The league is trying to change to attract more fans, not keep the current ones. Baseball is America’s pasttime, it’s a game of tradition and skill. Changing rules to appease children who can’t even grasp reality is not a winning formula.
I agree Dodge. If you have to change the foundation of the game to attract a new fan base, how loyal will that fan base be long term? I believe they will be fleeting…and we’ll be left with a hurried watered down version of baseball.
@Dodgethis
Nah. Most of the fans are NOT, for example, waiting with baited breath to unpack a brilliant double switch. Most fans are taking a walk, grabbing a hotdog, dropping in at the outfield restaurant, jumping in the pool… Baseball is just a backdrop. And part of the reason for that is it’s slow. It’s not compelling to the average iPhone absorbed attention span.
I agree Desert. Let the manager manage the game. If he wants to go with match ups, let him blow through his staff. I disagree with rules that are created for the sole purpose of appeasing the TV world.
“I disagree with rules that are created for the sole purpose of appeasing the TV world.”
How about TV contracts? Do you like them?
I don’t know anything about TV contracts.
They help fund the entire sport.
But other than that, who cares, lol
Absolutely! It’s going to be a train wreck
No, dumbest rule ever was when they decided that one position on the field didn’t have to play the entire game and could get someone else to play that part for him.
Are u taking about the one that a pitcher must face 3 batters for a save?
I really don’t understand why it matters.
Even if they aren’t currently injured, giving a pitcher time off keeps them from becoming injured. The quality of the competition stays high. I really could not care less about teams abusing the IL.
It’s yet another advantage rich teams have over not as rich teams, since it effectively gives a team more than 25 major league roster spots. The wealthy teams use it to cycle vets with real contracts through. There’s a reason the Dodgers pioneered this.
Is this a joke? The rich teams are not cycling expensive vets up and down. You cannot send down someone with over what five years of service time without his permission, which they don’t give. You try to demote a veteran and he opts to become a free agent while keeping his contract with you. As far as I know a low budget team with a deep farm system, the Rays, is best at this. The deep dark aspect is key.
The point is teams shuffling pitchers on and off the active roster using the IL rather than sending them up and down to the minors. Try to keep up.
AMEN
If a 10 day rest for pitchers is good, just think what a 15 day rest will do for them.
Why would the MLBPA agree to this without getting something in return?
Because under the current rule guys aren’t getting a chance to stay up and prove themselves. The players and the union want this.
I think if you just made so if a guy is recalled within 10 or 15 days he gets all of those days of service time. It would fix the problem
I might be wrong but I believe that time spent on the IL is actually already considered service time as long as the “injury” occurred during a major league game.
it is .
With two-way players, how are they going to be classified? Most hit more than the pitch. Ohtani for example will bat 3-4 days per week and only pitch one but he’s certainly a SP.
That’s a great question chase. I was wondering the same thing myself. My only guess is that any player can be taken off the IL after 10 days but none of them would actually be allowed to take the mound or pitch until at least 5 days after that. That way you could bring back any player and use them as a position player/hitter/pinch runner after 10 days but none of them would actually be able to pitch until after 15 days. I’m just guessing but it is the only thing that makes sense to me. So Ohtani could come up and hit after 10 days but he would have to wait another round through the rotation before he could take the mound and pitch. Make sense? Like I said, I’m guessing but that would be my best guess. What do you think?
I also was thinking about Ohtani. And I agree, I think pitching wise he’ll have to wait 15 days, but can hit after 10.
There is a rule stating who can be a 2-way player (position and pitcher). It has to do with number of starts at a position other than pitcher with at least 3 ABs per start. I’m not sure what the exact rule is, but they have already clarified it for next year.
esjek, in essence chase’s question was: will the two way players be considered batters and be able return off the IL in 10 days, or be considered a pitcher and have to be out for 15.
Considering Ohtani is not really a pitcher at all, I think he will qualify as a hitter. The guy has only pitched like 10 games in his MLB career.
I think it depends on position he’s playing at the time of the injury. Is Ohtani a “pitcher” or a “hitter”?
I think what it would be is what he is classified as on the roster the day of the injury. Ohtani for example did not pitch last year due to his recovery so to pitch he would have to be on the roster as a pitcher until he gets enough innings to qualify as a 2 way player. After that if they go with the 13/13 split of pitchers and position players he could be on the roster as a position player able to pitch or a pitcher that also plays the field and count toward that total and follow that sides IL rules.
Yankees can’t cheat moving players back and forth from the IL.
Nobody was cheating. It’s arguable that rule was subject to abuse, but the rule simply gave teams with more than five legitimate starters an opportunity to rest one. Any team that wanted to do it could do it.
It was smart baseball… But it was causing havoc for my fantasy league. Good rule change. 🙂
Oh, but “cheating” is the word of the year.
It’s not like it came out of nowhere. Actual cheating happened. Cheating that changed AB’s, games, seasons, WS.
What a childish, wild, ignorant Yankee-hater accusation. What are you, 9? Because you sound like a 9-yr-old Sox fan. I know, I grew up with them. Funny thing is, most of them sound exactly the same, ostensibly all grown up. Pathetic.
You sound like the many homer Yankee fans that still live with mommy. I know many of them. They cry whenever someone says anything negative about their Yankees. Then they hide in their safe places, clinging to mommy.
Right, the team with the most IL usage ever is a team with one of the highest payrolls ever. They’re also a team known for bending the rules whenever they can.
No, they did nothing wrong….LOL
“They’re also a team known for bending the rules whenever they can. ”
Please show me your well documented dissertation on this topic. Right, you can’t. Because it is entirely made up by Yankee haters who can’t stand the fact that the Yankees win a lot of games so they make up all kinds of lies to diminish those wins. Like I said, 9-yr-old Sox fans. Thing is, some of you never grow up. In your little baseball hearts, you’re still 9 yr-olds.
Grow up, liar.
p.s., I live 2,000 miles from my “mommy,” with my own family. You, OTOH, probably do live with your mommy.
On the topic of “bending the rules,” it’s the Red Sox who have been dogged by claims that they steal signs, claims which were finally proven true a couple of years ago in the iWatch incident. They were FINED because the evidence was irrefutable. What did the Sox do? Grown-ups that they were (NOT), they accused the Yanks of stealing signs a week later…wait for it…without any evidence. Deflection. Where do their fans get it from, these baseless accusations…? Pedey later said that stealing signs was no big deal, every litllte league team does it. Well mine didn’t. Also there are legal and illegal methods for stealing signs. Pretty sure the little leaguers use the legal version.
You want a “dissertation” in a fan forum? LOL. How about, “theres no rule against banging my bat on the roof of the dugout”. Good lord. The yankees have always felt they were above the law. They are an entitled group of mommy boys… just like you.
That wasn’t stealing signs you moron. The Astros were stealing signs. The Sox were stealing signs. Gardner was expressing frustration for a bad call. Sheesh! And this you engaging in deflection on behalf of your cheating Sox. Grow up from this toxic Yankee hate! It’ll be liberating. There’s a whole adult world out here and you’re missing it.
Never said he was stealing signs moron. I said he was bending the rules. He claimed banging on the roof with his bat isn’t against the rules and he got thrown out for no reason. He got thrown out for being an idiot, it’s not against the rules either, but Gardner thought he could get away with it because he’s a Yankme.
Try to keep up.
re-post… my previous comment is awaiting moderation. Had some no-no words in it.
Eliminating the juiced baseball might be another good idea. I watch a baseball game for strategy and execution, not to recreate a video game.
Hear, hear. I love watching the long ball as much as anyone but I hate seeing the record books destroyed when half the league hits 30 hr’s or more. I like Pete Alonso, but they really need an asterisk for his rookie HR “record.”
Go back to a normal ball!
There are no asterisks in Baseball.
then they need one for both judge (the ball was messed with a bit in 2017) and for big mac as well (there’s a ton of proof mlb was messing with the ball in 87. by 1988, 27 home runs was good enough to crack the top 10 in mlb, in 1987, 35 put you in the top 10)
The juice in ’17 was nothing like the juice in ’19. Judge’s 52 HRs probably would have been 46-48. Alonso’s more like 40-44.
As for “big mac” it was likely to be, in part, roids.
“Judge cheated too.”
Mo4ever… “but, but, but….”
Juiced ball favored teams like the yankees. Teams built on power and strong bullpen would benefit most. If they get rid of the homer ball, the Yanks will have less wins even if they dont have anyone on the IL. I guarantee the Yankees will have less wins next year.
The child pokes his head out of his bunkbed.
“I guarantee the Yankees will have less wins next year.”
There’s a bold, ominous prediction. Most 103 win teams do regress, so, you’re not really saying anything. But nice try waving the Evil Empire banner over nothing but your puerile need to do so at every turn.
Whao… so you’re saying a healthy Yankee team might not win more than 103 games? I was arguing that the other day an you Yankme slugs kept saying… “butt they had the most players ever on the IL, they have to do better.”
Internet tough guy puts the lotion on its skin.
I agree 100%. With ball parks getting smaller and almost every hitter swinging for the fences, there is no need for a juiced ball. Go back to the regular ball.
So how would that affect Ihtani, a hitter and a pitcher???
depends. if his last time on the field was as a pitcher, 15 day list.
if as a hitter, 10 day list.
i actually am just guessing, but i would think if he was able to pitch on monday, for example, sit out tuesday, then play dh on wednesday, then need to go on the list on thursday or friday, they’d look at him hitting as the cause
Why do people call him a pitcher? He hasn’t pitched in almost 2 years. Besides he doesn’t do anything that every single NL starting pitcher does.
Now Michael Lorenzen is an ACTUAL two way player. He pitches relief and pinch hits, but he also plays center field on occasion.
You do realize Ohtani blew out his elbow last June, played thru it and had TJS in the offseason and couldn’t throw this year, right? Sal Perez hasn’t played in over a year, but you’d still call him a catcher.
Details, details… this was supposed to be about Michael Lorenzen! Ohtani was just the set-up.
Should just go back to the 15 day DL for all players then. The 10 day DL, excuse me, IL, was intended to allow teams to move guys to the IL quicker instead of taking days to see if a guy would really need to be out the 15 days. But unfortunately, good intentions went awry as teams figured out how to game the system. And that is it, no matter the rules, teams will always find ways to game the system. So set rules that you are comfortable with whatever games the teams will play.
This is why I like the new 3 batter minimum. Pitching changes have gotten way out of hand and slowed the game down. So it is either a 3 batter minimum, or the pitcher has to be ready to go as soon as he gets to the mound. It is unfortunate this is needed though, because baseball and its players refuse to address the real cause of lengthening game time….all the horse**** that goes on between the batter and the pitcher. Get the ball, get your sign and throw the &^%&* ball! Get in the box and get ready to hit!
Nobody was abusing the rule with the position players (or at least there was rarely ever a reason teams would gain an advantage in doing so), so there’s no reason not to keep it at 10 days for them.
Yeah, screw letting teams be creative.
Rather than have a 10 and a 15 day list, I’d focus on the guys that get optioned multiple times in a season. My changes would be:
1. After April 15, any player optioned who was not on the Major league roster for 10 consecutive days before being optioned cannot be recalled for at least 15 days, including recalls for replacing a player sent to an IL.
2. A player optioned for a third or fourth time in a season earns a bonus of 21 days of Major league service time, but cannot be recalled for those 21 days.
3. A player optioned for a fifth time in a season may declare free agency
Personally, I really like the first change except for IL placements. If the minimum IL stay for pitchers is 15 days now, I think that does enough already. I’m indifferent about the second rule but the third seems excellent as well.