A trio of heavy-hitting veteran MLB executives is looking for a new angle back into the game, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today (Twitter links). Dave Dombrowski, Tony La Russa, and Dave Stewart are all now united in a potential bid for a new venture.
That notable group is said to be joining Music City Baseball, LLC to aid in a dedicated effort at bringing Major League Baseball to Nashville, Tennessee. Precisely what role each will occupy at this point isn’t clear, but the long-time baseball insiders certainly bring some gravitas and connections to the bid. They’re currently listed as advisors to the undertaking, with Stewart also tabbed as a board member.
The group is said to be attempting to compile an African American majority ownership group. Negro League Hall of Fame president Bob Kendrick is another board member of note. R.A. Dickey, Barry Zito, and Vanderbilt head coach Tim Corbin also rank as “baseball advisors.” The organization lists real estate executive John Loar as managing director and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales as Chairman of the Board.
Nashville is currently home to the Triple-A Sounds, the top affiliate of the Texas Rangers. That club has also engaged in talks with MLB about potentially hosting a satellite league for unsigned players in 2020. Nashville, of course, already hosts the NFL’s Titans and NHL’s Predators.
There certainly appears to be some upcoming opportunity for Nashville to grab a MLB franchise. Some existing clubs are dealing with ballpark issues and could conceivably be candidates to move. More likely is the possibility of expansion, particularly as the league looks for ways to boost revenue to help deal with the lost opportunity this year. Nashville would appear to rate as one of the most desirable potential landing spots for a new ballclub if the league decides to add another pair of outfits.
Big yikes.
Indianapolis should get a MLB team before Nashville
I wouldn’t go that far but I’m still not sure why Chicago needs two teams. The White Sox could move to Indianapolis if they wanted but I doubt it will happen.
im not sure why any city needs two teams to be honest
Depends on the size of the city. Brooklyn would be the 4th largest US city if it’s own city, ahead of Houston.
Nothing wrong with multiple teams if the area supports it. in fact it makes the league stronger. Look at NYC with each team building out its’ own network. Sadly though the league will look for quick bucks via expansion which will water down the product. Increase league size to a maximum of two and let Tampa, Miami, Oakland and others fight it out with Charlotte, Nashville, Vegas and others.
If they can sustain a team, why not? The White Sox stink but still had higher attendance than 7 teams last year. The Mets (I’m a fan) were not great last year but had higher attendance than 17 teams. The Dodgers and Angels ranked 1st and 5th overall in attendance.
I think New York and L.A. are the only cities that should ever have more than one team in any sport.
Yeah L.A. has done wonders in the N.F.L. They can’t support one team let alone more than one team
True but they’ve done just fine in MLB and the NBA
Water down the product? We have great veterans who can’t get work. I think expansion would be fine.
Oakland A’s should follow the Raiders to Las Vegas.
Having a higher attendance than 7 teams isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement.
They can’t get work because teams realize their no longer likely worth the bucks they want. Less pitching quality along with overthrowing is why we have thirteen man staffs,
It’s a good time to expand. Have four four team divisions in each league. Inter league could all happen at once again.
Imagine never being right.
Right? Tell us what that’s like for you.
You aren’t funny.
And you aren’t…..right! Again.
Orlando before any other city then a city that has just a NFL team at moment then Hawaii.
Wait what
Yeah what!?!? Haha… Florida has thus far proven to be a terrible place for baseball franchises so why would you put another one there? And then Hawaii!?!? Lol… not only would they have no chance whatsoever to support the team fanbase wise… But it would also be a nightmare for travel/schedule purposes. It would be impossible to have a team in Hawaii logistically and even if it could be done… I really don’t see any evidence that they’d be able to support a team revenue wise…
Hawaii??
I grew up there and believe it or not we had a Pcl team for a while
Yea cause the other Florida teams do so well in attendance smh
Orlando could actually work. Saying the Florida teams aren’t doing well is only looking at the situation and not the circumstances. Typical.
Miami has had 2 world series teams destroyed by idiot owners that jaded the fan base. If the current ownership puts a winner on the field and actually keeps it and gets their heads out of their butts and markets the winner, the fans will fill the place…they just need to see a commitment past the winning season.
The Rays don’t play in Tampa. St. Petersburg is separated from the key fan base in Tampa. That’s about a 30 min drive if traffic isn’t bad. Put the Rays in Tampa, and the team likely thrives.
Florida does *not* need another MLB team. Even if you desperately wanted a team in Orlando, there’s two struggling teams (2nd to last and dead last in attendance) in the same state that could be moved there.
Agreed. They should never put another expansion team in Florida. If they wanted to try moving the Rays to either Orlando or Jacksonville then fine but any new teams should be put in better markets.
Florida fans don’t support the MLB teams they have now
MLB never should’ve expanded to Florida in the first place. There’s a major reason that will never change as to why Florida will never be able to properly support any MLB teams: The people with most of the money don’t actually live there during most of baseball season!
Adding the Marlins in 1993 was perfectly fine because they had never tested the Florida market and it was worth a shot but adding a second Florida team only five years later was completely unnecessary. The 1998 expansion should have included one of Charlotte/Nashville (or Raleigh/Memphis) to go with Phoenix.
Charlotte is the best location.
Why not both Indy and Nashville?
Fine with me but they won’t do it
They won’t have 48 team either.
Never said they would even though I prefer more teams
Here’s the best I could come up with if you want Indy and Nashville with eight teams per division…
Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Miami, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Washington
Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, New York (Mets), New York (Yankees), Philadelphia, Toronto
Chicago (Cubs), Chicago (White Sox), Houston, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Minnesota, St. Louis, Texas
Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles (Angels), Los Angeles (Dodgers), Oakland, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle
Maybe switch Indy and Milwaukee if you want.
Agreed. Charlotte is another option too
Tampa should relocate to Charlotte.
They should definitely expand soon. The Southeast needs another team and the Pacific Northwest needs another team.
Oakland should move to Vegas or Portland, Tampa should move either to Orlando or out of FL…No reason to keep two MLB franchises in FL
I’d have the Rays move to one of Charlotte/Nashville and the Athletics move to one of Portland/Las Vegas. I would change the name for both teams though. Then add expansion teams in the two cities they didn’t relocate to.
Portland Athletics wouldn’t be a bad name. You wouldn’t have to change anything except the location name. Plus, the As have precedent for changing locations and keeping the name (Philadelphia, Kansas City, Oakland).
I think Las Vegas Athletics, though, sounds a little clunky.
I guess so. I like something like the Portland Thunderbirds though and I did like the Las Vegas Vipers name they had on that mock expansion draft.
Why in the heck would MLB want Portland ? Rioting nightly.
Vancouver is fine too. They keep mentioning Portland though.
Yeah, why the heck would MLB want a city that fiercely supports their current sports teams and has lots of money? Oh right, they’d give up that because of fear-mongering nonsense about riots. smh.
Portland has below average violent crime rates per capita versus other major US cities* but do go on with your nonsense.
*(I’d provide some links, but links here sometimes get caught in ‘Awaiting Moderation’; you can see ‘US cities by crime rate’ on wikipedia)
True…even if you shorten it to the LV athletics like the LA dodgers it is still kind of strange
Vegas A’s would probably be the go to anyway
The Vegas Vipers.
Because Portland wants MLB.
Because the fans are there and Portland folks just aren’t that keen on Seattle or California.
Second to Orlando the Ray’s because played their before.
Portland should never have a MLB franchise. It’s a political cesspool and couldn’t support a MLB team financially either. Perhaps Vancouver but that’s questionable too although they’d have a portion of the Canadian market.
Vancouver is perfectly fine with me. The Pacific Northwest absolutely needs a second team though. Seattle is too isolated from the rest of the teams.
Vancouver is a great city but it’s just too far away for a sport that plays a 162 game schedule. Which team would be the closest divisional team for them, SF? (Assuming they go to the NL). That has to be a good 900-1,000+ miles away from them. Plus the players already hate having to deal with customs when they go to Toronto. Nashville, Charlotte, Portland and even San Antonio would be better locations for a new franchise. Again, Vancouver is an awesome city; it’s just too far away from the rest of the MLB teams (except for Seattle) to make logistical sense.
Vancouver would definitely be in the AL West with Seattle, Oakland and Anaheim. Then you’d put the two Texas teams with Colorado and Kansas City.
Completely agree. When I lived up there they kicked out the AAA Beavers for soccer and then the mayor would not back concerting the old Blazers facility to a ballpark that could eventually house an MLB team. Pretty sure the old Blazer stadium still hosts Christmas festivals and stuff like that.
‘it’s a political cesspool’
A) please leave politics out of it
B) the Trailblazers do just fine (5th overall in attendance)
C) the Timbers (MLS) do just fine (4th overall, 25,000/game)
D) plenty of disposable income in Portland
Portland should be right near the top of MLB expansion.
And you can’t forget the Thorns—they draw over 16,000 for women’s soccer.
Disagree. Portland doesn’t come close to drawing the same number of fans as other minor league teams with cities viable to make the jump to the majors. Portland should not be high on the list. Top 10 sure, not Top 5.
I’d agree the Pac NW needs another team to cut down on SEA’s travel schedule. Every year they lead all MLB in miles logged.
2 of the lowest attendance teams are in SE (TB/MIA), and while they would get more support in Charlotte/Nashville, it’s hard to make a case for another regional team with that lack of show.
I know it’s a little more to the East than Vancouver/Portland and would probably never even be considered but even a city like Calgary would fit in just fine with Seattle geographically.
Also, no one ever mentions Ottawa when they bring up Montreal but it has the fourth-highest population in Canada and Montreal has already had a shot.
Baseball would die in Ottawa. OC Transpo is terrible, everyone lives in the suburbs and the stadium would be downtown and the Sens are a mess. And they can’t even support a CFL team. Ottawa won’t get a team ever.
I would probably try Calgary or Winnipeg before Ottawa but I seriously doubt they ever try anywhere in Canada other than Vancouver or Montreal again. I’m not sure why they’re so obsessed with Montreal but it seems to be at the top of their list.
Portland, OR folks can easily drive to Seattle. Same with Vancouver, BC. 2-3 hour drive.
It’d be epic if both Portland and Vancouver bc, had an mlb team. I’d settle for one of them. Both about equal distance from Seattle.
No, MLB is correct about not expanding until the A’s and Rays deal with their stadium situations. Why take away market possibilities when one or both of those teams may have to move to those new markets in the near future, anyway?
Agreed. As much as I want to see Portland and either Las Vegas or Nashville/Memphis get a team (need more in the SE) the troubled markets must be dealt with first.
Including Dave Stewart is a mistake
I like Dave, but I’m a Braves fan. Haha
Heaven help the Nashville franchise if Dave Stewart and Tony LaRussa are in charge of baseball ops. Ask any D-backs fan about the Stewart/LaRussa combo… not good.
Portland first!
Both. They need one in each region.
I could list six cities that could support a team better than Portland. Good luck building a ML ballpark in Portland area…
Portland already has a group called the Portland Diamond Project trying to fund a stadium. There are definitely plenty of other options though.
Charlotte
Nashville
Las Vegas
San Antonio
Vancouver
Indianapolis
Buffalo
Brooklyn
Oklahoma City
Yes to OKC.
I would love for the Portland Diamond Project to succeed. Being able to support a local team and not needing to drive ~3 hours to catch a game? Yes, please.
NYC gets another baseball team?
A stadium in between San Antonio and Austin would be perfect. 30 mins from each big city. Lots of land to develop on.
Brooklyn, Buffalo and San Antonio? Why would Texas or ny need another team? That would be like putting one in San Jose or Napa. I think though that slc and Louisville would be good candidates
New York had three teams until 1958. It’s not unheard of.
What are those six cities? Portland already supports the Blazers and the Timbers and both of those teams are near the top in attendance in their leagues every year.
Before you laugh at the Timbers (I know, it’s just soccer), in only 17 games in 2019, they had 429,000 fans at 25,000 a game. 12 MLB teams had less than 22,500 per game in 2019.
The Blazers are top ten in attendance every year whether they’re good or bad.
Keep in mind that it’s a lot harder to support an MLB team than any of the other major sports. An MLB team usually has 81 home games in the regular season, significantly more than any of the other sports. Just because cities like Portland can support an NBA team does not necessarily mean they can also support an MLB team.
In Portland they could name the ballpark Antifa Field.
Wow, man. So funny. ‘Antifa Field’. What a knee-slapper.
@rcct don’t mind the troll trying to make our baseball conversation into something else.
Think you make a good argument for Portland. I imagine fan attentance from other sports is a pretty good way to judge, especially during the prospecting phase of this because it will give you some clue as to whether a community will support a sports club. They also might not have the kind of TV deals other teams already have so fan support IN the stadium would probably be even more important
Portland was 28th overall in average attendance among minor league teams. The argument for Portland to have an MLB team is now over. SalaryCap, do some research.
Nashville, Indy, Charlotte, Vegas. There is your Top 4. They’ve been in the Top 5 or 6 in attendance the last few years, with Vegas reaching that spot thanks to a new ballpark. They have earned it more than Portland. Nobody cares that they support basketball.
Does anyone think either Salt Lake or Sacramento is worth trying? Both cities only have the NBA so it’s kind of hard to gauge whether or not they would support MLB.
I think they’d need some tax dollars for stadium upgrades or a bigger ballplark. For your 48-team idea, they’d be part of the extra 18 teams no doubt.
Salt Lake has been a Top 12’ish team in overall attendance. Sacramento Top 20.
I know we’ve discussed Montreal. I would have a team in Vancouver before Montreal. They support their low-A team.
With 48 teams I would definitely put teams in Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. I’d also go to three teams in Texas (add San Antonio or Austin), four teams in New York (add Buffalo and Brooklyn) and six teams in California (add Sacramento).
Calgary or Edmonton? USA before Canada. San Jose? Green Bay?
Green Bay? Wisconsin will never have two teams. The only other sport I could ever see Green Bay even being considered for is hockey and even that’s a long shot. San Jose? California already has five teams and two in the Bay Area. There’s no way the Giants or Athletics would give up more broadcast rights. Sacramento is the only other city in California that may be considered aside from the five that currently have a team.
Here’s a 48-team league…
Havana, Miami, New Orleans, San Juan, Santo Domingo, Tampa Bay
Atlanta, Baltimore, Charlotte, Louisville, Nashville, Washington
Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Detroit, Minnesota, Toronto
Boston, Brooklyn, Buffalo (unless you want to keep Pittsburgh) New York (Mets), New York (Yankees), Philadelphia
Chicago (Cubs), Chicago (White Sox), Indianapolis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis
Houston, Mexico City, Monterrey, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Texas
Anaheim, Arizona, Colorado, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Diego
Oakland, Portland (or maybe Sacramento), Salt Lake, San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver
Where’s Orlando in your plan?
Orlando isn’t in the plan unless it’s replacing Tampa Bay.
That is such a cool idea. Particularly the Af Am majority ownership.
I’m not sure what Stewart is going to bring to the table. Is it money? If it’s his baseball mind, he better have supervision until he’s proven he is more capable than when we last saw him. Doubt me on this? Ask a Diamond Backs fan for THEIR thoughts.
As a D-backs fan commenting on Dave Stewart’s baseball ops savvy, I can only say, “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything.”
Seems like they are being used as leverage in negotiations with teams and their current cities. It’s been 16+ years since MLB moved a team, 22+ years since expansion. Not happening.
32 teams makes the schedule much simpler though. It also lets them realign into eight divisions of four.
With a new MLS club (Nashville SC) Nashville is already fighting for entertainment dollars. I live in Nashville and as big of a baseball fan I am, I see no way this city can support an MLB team. Also Stewart and TLR have been a part of this group since at least the Fall, DD is the only new name here
Apparently they want to name the team the Nashville Stars. Memphis would probably be better in terms of only having to compete with the Grizzlies for fan support but I’m not sure if they would try putting a team there.
Nashville better keep the Sounds name if they move up to the MLB
DarkSide…they already have a website for “Music City Baseball” and it states their desire to honor their Negro League team by calling the team the Stars.
Nashville is one of the fastest growing metros in the country.
Redbirds in Memphis.
Redbirds is too similar to Cardinals. I would call them something else…possibly the Memphis Kings but you could probably come up with a better name.
The Cardinals Triple-A team is in Memphis.
I’m aware…but even if they gave up the rights to that name, you would have two MLB teams with very similar names so I would name them something else.
We have teams that is similar in name. Looks at the Reds and Red Sox.
Cardinals are actually red birds though. They are basically the exact same thing. That’s the difference here.
Nashville can’t support a MLB team? Are you serious? They sellout every hockey game for pete’s sake. The Titans are selling out again after sucking for a few years. This is a rabid sports fanbase and you can’t find a pro athlete playing here that doesn’t absolutely love the town. It’s not a matter of if, but when.
Dave Stewart and Tony La Russa back together in a front office.
Wont be long until the two of them trade 4 top 100 prospects for Steven Matz.
Possibly. A South division with Atlanta, Charlotte (formerly Tampa Bay), Miami and Nashville would be fun though.
You know, I was worried about the idea of a La Russa and Stewart front office again, but as a Mets fan I think you just changed my mind 🙂
Not with Dombrowski at the helm. Say what you will about him, but Dombrowski is a good trader.
Nashville
Montreal
Vegas
Tampa has two years to build or cut bait. It’s been a Bettmanesque failure comparable to Carolina,Atlanta and Phoenix. Miami not too far behind.
tryna be the #2 with Vegas in the next expansion
I think Nashville would be a great addition to the league but that group would terrify me if they have a hand in running it.
Dombrowski is only one of the best GMs of his generation and just wins. Winning shouldn’t be so terrifying.
I would rather see Oakland or other teams struggling financially move than expansion, because the league struggles with having enough talent now (especially on the pitching side).
didn’t Oakland just iron out their stadium sitiation?
They’ve got an ENA with the city of Oakland, who just agreed UNANIMOUSLY to sell their 50% to the A’s. The County sale has ink on paper and money changing hands (that they DON’T get back if they leave, land returns to city & county).
And that’s the *backup* location.
@CCCTL Agreed, plus their “Rooted in Oakland” campaign might have been a dig at the Raiders,so they are not following the Raiders to Vegas… too much bad blood between the ownership.
Not really. They just agreed to buy the land that A’s “Ballpark ” and arena sits on. Oakland is strapped for cash because of the you know what.
I like having eight four-team divisions more though. Let’s say Tampa Bay and Oakland do relocate…
Baltimore, Boston, New York (Yankees), Toronto
New York (Mets), Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington
Atlanta, Charlotte (formerly Tampa Bay), Miami, Nashville (expansion)
Chicago (Cubs), Cincinnati, Milwaukee, St. Louis
Chicago (White Sox), Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota
Colorado, Houston, Kansas City, Texas
Arizona, Los Angeles (Dodgers), San Diego, San Francisco
Las Vegas (formerly Oakland), Los Angeles (Angels), Portland (expansion), Seattle
Mets belong with Yankees. Baltimore with Washington. St. Louis with Midwest teams. San Francisco is closer to Northwest. Las Vegas closer to Arizona. Reds and Indians need to be together with Detroit.
I was trying to keep all the teams in their current league.
As much as possible at least…Tampa (now Charlotte) and Colorado would have to switch
Love it. Great plan man!
That’s fine with me only if you can convince the Rockies and the Charlotte team to switch leagues so that we can keep the leagues intact and revert back to keeping the DH out of the NL starting next year.
However, 4 teams per division is just too few from a competitive standpoint, so it would be even better to just give 2 divisions 6 teams despite making them uneven compared to the other divisions.
In that case put Nashville in the NL Central and Portland in the AL West to give both of those divisions six teams.
I think it was Joe Girardi who suggested this realignment (staying with 30 teams)…
Eastern Conference…
Boston, New York (Mets), New York (Yankees), Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
Atlanta, Baltimore, Miami, Tampa Bay, Washington
Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Toronto
Western Conference…
Chicago (Cubs), Chicago (White Sox), Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis
Los Angeles (Angels), Los Angeles (Dodgers), Oakland, San Diego, San Francisco
Arizona, Colorado, Houston, Seattle, Texas
Agreed. Manford should make it a rule that the A’s and Rays come first.
Um, he already has made this basically a rule. He’s already said he won’t consider expansion until the situations with those two teams are resolved. It’s one of the few good things he’s done as Commissioner so far.
Oakland has never struggled financially, they have been highly profitable due a lot to a low payroll
Nashville and Vegas expansion complimented by one of the Florida teams moving to somewhere farther north would be a good plan for the league. Nashville and Vegas are two markets that could use more pro sports and South Florida doesnt need two of them.
The PNW definitely needs another team, whether it’s Portland or Vancouver.
i tend to pick Vancouver as Vegas’s counterpart because of its being in Canada. i think Vancouver gives you the most new baseball fans of any probable market out there given Toronto is a long way from the Pacific coast of Canada
The Snowbird State really shouldn’t have ANY MLB teams.
That’s a demolition crew.
I severely doubt that another team would be in the Atlanta television network area.
It’s going to happen at some point. I’m a huge Braves fan but even I think it’s odd that our TV market includes six states (Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina and North Carolina). The Southeast could use another team or possibly even two.
As a Braves fan you should recognize that more teams in the SE is going to, in theory, hurt the Braves by lowering their market share.
Probably but it would be nice to have some regional rivals. Tampa Bay plays in the opposite league and Miami has an awful team.
Hire all 3. They will never be competitive with those 3. LaRussa and Stewart have no business anywhere at the top of the food chain in baseball. On the field only. Dumbroski can spend millions and ruin a farm system faster than anyone. Stewart and LaRussa have no clue on how to run a team. They set the Diamondbacks back years due to their poor decisions.
You are missing the fact that if you want to be a part of the old boys network, you gotta have some old boys.
Dombrowski brought Florida a title. He wins. Whether you like his methods or approach really won’t matter to the next team he works with because he’s a proven winner. Not many GMs can say that and he is head and shoulders the best available exec.
DD the world’s greatest window closer!
Give him a team that is set up to contend for a half decade and he’ll give you a team that’ll now have a 3 year window! Followed by a nice long rebuild! Put the dinosaur out to pasture!
Same could be said about Pat Gillick with his Hall of Fame career. This is a results-oriented league and DD achieves results.
Nothing like expansion money to solve economic woes.
It’s definitely time to go to 32 teams.
So how does that work? 4 divisions of 4 teams per league?
Yes, just like the NFL.
Nah. Four divisions of eight. Helps balance the schedule.
I’d like to see six divisions of six but I doubt they’ll go to 36 teams.
Nashville has a lot of advantages with regard to being either an expansion team or a site for relocation. First, 50% of the U.S. population lives within a 500 mile radius of Nashville, meaning that they can draw fans from out of state (Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc.) as well as from the local metro area (>1 MM people.) Second, Nashville lies at the intersection of 3 major interstates (24, 40, 65), and the city is not too far from the airport, so travel to and from the city is easy and accessible. Third, Tennessee has a great technology infrastructure (they had fiber laid out in 95% of the state all the way back in 1994.) Finally, either Nashville or Charlotte would be a desirable location for expansion if they decide to re-align geographically (think Atlanta, the 2 Florida franchises, and Nashville/Charlotte in a Southeast division.)
On the downside, I’m not sure where they would put a new stadium, on top of the fact that they just built a beautiful replacement for Greer Stadium in First Horizon Park. Also, as pointed out in the article, getting top $$$ for an expansion franchise right now might be tough given the current economic and social environments; I don’t think the residents of the city/state would be terribly happy with money going toward a new stadium when there are bigger fish to fry, like public health, unemployment, etc.
As a former resident of Nashvegas (as we called it), I would love to see the city get an MLB franchise, but I’m not sure the timing is right.
Nashville’s home. It’s a rapidly growing city. I’d like to see a Nashville AL. Team so I could have a team in each league. It would probably have good attendance
Tampa would be a nice fit. Move the Rays to Nashville.
Utah?
I short.
Salt Lake Silvers?
I expect a 2 team expansion soon. Montreal has a group (including the son of the original Expos owner) with a plan for a new park all set. Montreal & Nashville could work, with a few others out there who could support a team too potentially.
COVID will have screwed a few teams cash flow so $2 billion in expansion fees (or whatever they ask for) would help a lot. Should be interesting to watch. Especially with perpetual moving candidates slowly getting stable (Oakland’s team owns their park, Miami got their park, Tampa is getting close to settling it from what I’ve read).
Orlando has Cracker Jack Stadium.
LaBatt 2.0? If that gets off the ground it’ll be MLB’s greatest mistake giving that city another team.
Just like giving Milwaukee a second chance, or Washington a 3rd? Montreal was tops in the majors for attendance in the early 80’s, then the team went into a tanking phase, then came back for 1994 (ugh) and then the ownership went cheap again for a few years, then sold to a scum who leveraged the team to make millions by selling it to Washington after driving down the team as much as possible. How that scum was allowed to own another team is beyond me and automatically disqualified Selig from the HOF imo.
I guarantee if Montreal gets another team it will do well as long as ownership keeps investing in the team.
Expos were below league average in overall attendance starting in 1984. That’s over 20 plus seasons leading to 2004.
They averaged below 20,000 from 1995 onward. They also never averaged above 22,844 after 1983.
They averaged below 10,000 three times, under 13,000 ELEVEN times. Including their final seven seasons which also included a bump from Puerto Rico games. They were also threatened with contraction in 2000. That did not motivate the city to support the team.
They drew less than 1-million fans six of their last seven seasons (thanks again Puerto Rico). Drew under 1-million a total of nine times – none during a strike shortened season.
Montreal is also heavily taxed, fiscally irresponsible and must deal with a weaker Canadian dollar to the US. Neither Milwaukee or Washington had to deal with that. Montreal getting a new stadium in that congested city at the expect cost? They’d need public money they do not have. Disaster.
With all that laid out, Montreal does not deserve another team.
The West has fewer teams than any other region of the country but if they realign into eight-team divisions then there’s no need to add any more teams in the West (Angels, Athletics, Diamondbacks, Dodgers, Giants, Mariners, Padres, Rockies in one division). That leaves the East or the Central region. If you throw out Montreal then you basically have these options to add two teams…
Brooklyn
Buffalo
Charlotte
Indianapolis
Memphis
Nashville
New Jersey
New Orleans
Omaha
Raleigh
San Antonio/Austin
Pick any of these two as long as they’re not in the same state.
I disagree strongly with that assessment of Montreal – remember the last decade of that team in Montreal was with “owners” who were actively working to dismantle the team. They constantly said how terrible the park was and that no sane person would want to go to games. They cut back TV games drastically (in the mid 80’s there were as many Expo as Jays games on TV, by 2000 you had to hunt to find any Expo games on TV). The reason was the one owner kept doing cash calls to reduce the equity of others in the ownership group (not sure how it worked legally, but basically he made it so he kept increasing his share of ownership without putting up cash of his own by making it so no profits were possible). Eventually he sold it to MLB for a big profit for himself, then MLB ran down the team to make a move easy – even refusing to let the team call up anyone in September when they were in a pennant race (sort of). The anti-marketing hurt the team extremely. This was a market that once led the majors in attendance and had a market of millions on TV, then by neglect and deliberate moves was devalued by a scumbag.
Montreal deserved better. Give them Tampa Bay’s team and even in the old park you’d get 30-40k a game easily. With proper marketing (as the Jays do) you get a full stadium.. It is obvious Montreal by any measure deserves a team far more than any city in Florida at the very least. 4 million people live in the Montreal census area. Just shy of 2 million in the city proper. With proper marketing and effort they’d easily be one of the top franchises again.
When I see lists with silly places like Buffalo (too close to Toronto), Charlotte (under 1 million in city), Indianapolis (under 1 million and reasonably close to Cincinnati which isn’t exactly a big market as is), Memphis (makes the others look big), Nashville (also very small) none of which are realistic without massive government money to get them going, and then will be among the smallest markets in every respect it blows my mind. New Jersey could work, Brooklyn could too as both have massive populations but you’d have to deal with the Yankees and Mets fighting it (and maybe the Phillies too).
Don’t care if you disagree strongly with an accurate assessment. Montreal did not care about the Expos in the last 20 years of their existence. That is a fact. That cannot be refuted. The numbers prove it.
Montreal would not fill the stadium today with Tampa’s team. Tampa’s location is awful, waaaaay out of Tampa. Expos drew well with Toronto thanks to Blue Jays fans making the trip to Montreal. That city will turn it’s back on the team the way they did before. Montreal will need a new stadium, downtown, on the subway line. Good luck with that. They couldn’t get it done in 1997 and now the province is in a worse position.
Quebec is nearly $200-Billion in debt. To ask the province to kick in cash for a new stadium would be insane. The other argument for the cities you put down, is they actually CARE ABOUT BASEBALL! Some of the AAA teams averaged better than some of the years the Expos were in Montreal. With a smaller stadium capacity! Add the Canadian dollar issue and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
Say what you will about Buffalo but I’m not sure how Charlotte, Nashville or Indianapolis is “silly.” MLB would likely get support in any of those cities and two of them have been at the top of MLB’s list for years. I’m kind of on the fence about Montreal getting another team. I don’t think it would be a complete failure (at least not at first) but I also think there are better options.
Oh yes it can be refuted easily no mater how much you want it not to be. Only someone who doesn’t know Canada would think tons of Jay fans traveled from Toronto to Montreal to watch a game – it is a 6 hour drive and the dome is not full for the Jays games so why would you drive 6 hours to watch a Jays game when you can just wait a few days and get tickets at home?
20 years would put it in 1984 when the team had its first sub 2 million campaign after a few years of teasing the fans with a good team. They just dumped the very popular Gary Carter and were saying they couldn’t afford to keep good players anymore. That year they came in 5th out of 6. In 1987 they lost Dawson (again money) but kept Raines thanks to collusion and he led the team to a surprising contention season, finishing just 4 games out. 1.8 million that year. 1989 they did put a bit of effort in (trading for Mark Langston) but came up short by a good margin and got nearly 1.8 million in attendance. By now the anti-marketing efforts had begun as I recall – lots of stories about how terrible the park was and the like. The team dropped to last place by 1991 but improvements got them to 1.6 mil a year for the next 2 years showing fans would come out if you gave them a decent team. Then 1994 – the ultimate betrayal. A fantastic team that was starting to fill the park (I went to a game that year and over 30k were there but the stadium felt empty as it was so big) then they did full fire sale, dumping everyone who made any money as fast as they could. The anti-marketing efforts were in full swing. I doubt any market could’ve survived that. When a 70 ton piece of the park fell off in the early 00’s (no game that day luckily) it was over. No one wanted to go to games and the cheap ownership made it so no one would watch it on TV.
Now there is an ownership group who actually wants a team there. Who have the cash. Unlike your welfare queen corporate owners in the states they will build their park with minimal government assistance. Blows my mind how much your governments are willing to blow on parks even with cities falling apart (literally in many cases).
I also would have no problem with Louisville but the Reds would definitely fight that.
Nashville is the 28th biggest US TV market, Charlotte 21st, Indianapolis 25th. All have around 1 million TV households. Quebec has 3.5 million. IE: Quebec has as many potential TV viewers as Nashville PLUS Charlotte PLUS Indianapolis. That is a LOT of potential viewers. Not to mention Montreal has a bigger population than any of those 3.
Now, for any market, NJ not having their own team seems crazy to me, but politics might make that impossible (NYY, NYM both would fight it hard).
You do realize that the TV viewers would not come from only inside the city though? The entire state of North Carolina/Tennessee/Indiana would be tuning in…plus other areas as well. You’re comparing an entire province to each of those individual cities, not the state or region as a whole. I don’t hate Montreal like this other guy seems to but, to be fair, they did have their shot for three and a half decades and I think other cities deserve their shot now.
Northey, I am a Canadian from Toronto. Blue Jays fans took time off to party in Montreal to watch the Expos play exhibition games the last 5 or 6 years, The fact you cannot believe that is amazing. Saying this, it blows up your presumption, a very bad one at that, over your whole welfare queen comment. Isn’t Montreal STILL paying for Olympic Stadium? Nothing like having two stadiums on the books while heavily in debt.
You middle paragraph is riddled with excuses. The 1994 Expos averaged just over 24,000 fans. That is putrid for a 74-40 team contending for a title. They had emerging teams in 1992 and 1993 and averaged just over 20,000 both season. Again, putrid.
Montreal’s government will play a role despite what the new ownership group says. This will anger the province and the city. I don’t think you have a strong grasp on the city of Montreal. If you did you wouldn’t feel so strongly that Expos baseball would work again. I spent a lot of time in that city.
48-team – I loved Montreal baseball. I am saying it will not work. That city does not care for baseball. There are Expos fans across Canada. Unfortunately not in Montreal. What I cannot understand is why people crap on the Florida teams yet the same people want a team in Montreal, forgetting how bad things were. Tampa would work if they had a stadium IN Tampa rather than on an island in St Petes.
I would just move the Florida teams to Nashville and Charlotte and rename them if it was up to me. I know they won’t move the Marlins though because they just got that stadium eight years ago.
I’d like to see either Indianapolis or Louisville get a team as well but I don’t see Louisville happening honestly.
If Canada does get another team then I think it should be in the Western part of the country…Vancouver, Calgary or Edmonton…and I think Vancouver is the only one of those cities they would actually consider.
That would be so awesome. I hope it goes through.
3 people that know how to run a team into the ground…what could possibly go wrong??
Expansion teams usually don’t do well anyway. They’ll have an excuse for three to five years.
Dumbo did well with the Marlins, but in true Dumbo fashion, he left behind a team of overpaid, underperforming veterans on his way out the door. Ditto in Detroit and Boston.
Some of “dumbos” moves paved the way for the 2003 Marlins.
I like Nashville as a spot but I’m worried having a minor league team there would cause issues. If it doesn’t work out best options would be Portland, Las Vegas, Montreal, Vancouver, Indianapolis, or New Orleans.
36 teams would make this simpler because they could just add one team to each division and not realign or relocate anyone.
AL East: Montreal
AL Central: Indianapolis
AL West: Vancouver
NL East: Charlotte
NL Central: Nashville
NL West: Las Vegas
Indianapolis, Las Vegas and Vancouver all have minor league teams and Hillsboro, a suburb of Portland, has a minor league team as well.
Any MLB team in the south needs a stadium with a retractable roof and natural grass. If that is addressed then why not?
The Braves don’t have a retractable roof.
Greater Nashville has about 2m people. That’s too small. While growing, it is still smaller than Cincy, Pittsburgh, KC, and Cleveland, and is neither particularly wealthy nor is known as a baseball hotbed. Does baseball really need another small-market club like Nashville? I mean other than to collect expansion fees and to provide big market teams with home-grown stars that must be traded because the small market teams can’t afford to re-sign them?
If you want to expand, Orlando is the only metro out there which would be even a mid-sized market (4m). I mean, if you want to put another team in Florida…
nashville also has serious housing shortages, too.
I figure only a drunk fool would put another team in Florida. Miami was dead last by a good margin for attendance last year while Tampa was 2nd worst despite making the playoffs. 2018 was the same.
Miami reached 2 million just 3 times, 2012, 1997, and 1993 (their first season, reaching 3 million). Tampa has 2 million plus just once – their first season 1998. So between the two teams 2 million reached a total of 4 times. The Expos did 2 million 4 times between 1979 and 1983.
1983 was 37 years ago. Miami has drawn 800,000’ish fans the last 2 seasons.
Expos drew 800,000 in 2002, and have drawn under 800,000 FOUR times in their franchise history, including 1999, 2001 and their final season in 2004. Expos fans were so sad to see their team leave they couldn’t break 750,000 fans which included games in Puerto Rico to lift that total.
There should be four teams in Florida before ever considering one in Montreal.
If fans actually showed up then four teams in Florida wouldn’t be that far-fetched (Miami, Tampa Bay, Orlando and Jacksonville). Those are four cities that all have at least one pro sports team. I just don’t think the people in Florida have that much interest in MLB though.
Miami was run poorly and Tampa has a bad stadium, so it is fair to wonder if it is Florida or the particular circumstances. Maybe a bit if each? Orlando has the numbers and wealth for an MLB team, but I think MLB is scared of Florida, and it is not that far from Orlando to Tampa.. Jacksonville really does not have the demographics (I know they support an NFL team, but the NFL is different…)
To be honest, I think baseball has more problems on the other end — Cincy, Pittsburg, KC, and Milwaukee are weak market now and not exactly growing…
I know they’ll never put a team in Jacksonville. The only other league I would even consider for Jacksonville is the NBA…to go along with their NFL team.
Dallas comes to mind but Arlington to close to it.
A city with a Dome that an NFL Team plays in needs to host All-Star Game first to see if it can have an MLB Team like New Orleans.
San Antonio/Austin or OKC would be worth a shot but we’ll see if the league decides to go there.
My condolences to the fans of the future Nashville team for having these 3 running the franchise.
Stewart is obviously going to be the GM
A’s or Rays?
Nashville Pirates.
Nutting will Rachel Phelps his way out of town. Has been for a while now, actually.
Maybe the Pirates leave but I think they should change the name if they move to Nashville.
But who would want to be an owner of a MLB franchise? The owners themselves said it’s not a very profitable business…
How about Dallas,New Orleans and so on because have a Dome available?
The Dallas area already has a team (Rangers). New Orleans isn’t a terrible idea but I doubt they’d try it.
Let’s not forget Montreal….we need the Expos back
Montreal forgot about the Expos in the 90’s.
For those who care about numbers that should relate to team earning ability, the Bay Area is the sixth largest media market in the country. while Nashville is 28th, between Raleigh-Durham and San Diego. (Tampa/St. Pete/Sarasota/Clearwater are 12.th; Orlando 18th; Indianapolis 25th). Metro[politan area population rankings are a little different. Nashville is 32nd, between Raleigh-Durham and Milwaukee-Racine on the combined statistical area list, the one that puts San Jose with SF and Oakland and Baltimore and Washington together. I realize there are more things to attendance and TV contracts than metropolitan area population and TV/radio market size, but they do give some idea of potential.
I think it’s funny when people solely focus on gate attendance figures. While no one goes to the games, the Rays have one of the better television viewerships in the league and it continues to grow every year as the population grows (grew 23% from 2018 to 2019). They make plenty of money to remain in Tampa. MLB needs to rethink stadium size and their focus on in person attendance if they’re going to add new franchises/move others.
If they have such a decent amount of revenue, then why do they always run barebones payrolls and need to trade their best players before they even finish going through arbitration?
The A’s outdrew the Giants before PacBell Park opened in 2000. They just need a new ballpark, not to relocate. It’s a little tough to draw 3M fans a year when arguably the best ballpark in MLB is only 8 miles away. Even with that, the A’s still draw around 2M when the team is doing well, even with the worst ballpark in all major sports
I am all for bringing some old school tradition back to baseball, especially since Manfred seems to have made it a goal of his to destroy it. Nashville can be an NL Central team and Portland, Oregon could have an AL West team. Sixteen teams per league with no more regular season interleague play. The World Series was more special back then. It would be the only time the AL and NL would play each other. If we can get through this current hardship, there is still plenty of life left in baseball to support another two teams.
No Interleague Play in the regular season has always been a good thing. It’s just better when you have an even number of teams in each league so that it can be limited to just a few series per team each season and everyone doing it at the same time.
There may not be a front office room huge enough to hold DD’s, Stewart’s and LaRussa’s respective egos. OUCH! Shades of when Dallas Greene and King George were upstairs for the Yanks.
I love the idea of expansion, but I can’t see Nashville as a great choice. I’d think it’d be wiser to put two teams out West, with one being in Vegas; and move one of the Florida teams to Charlotte. Then Houston and Texas could move to the central.
With four-team divisions, Houston and Texas belong with Colorado and Kansas City. That’s the best way to align it.
Dallas comes to mind but Arlington to close to it.
A city with a Dome that an NFL Team plays in needs to host All-Star Game first to see if it can have an MLB Team like New Orleans.
I second geographical and no way to poster who thinks Minnesota with Cincinnati because it’s not near Minnesota,
MLB ownership is using the current situation to completely re-align and redefine any tradition that this time honored game has held dear for well over 100 years. Leagues and divisions will mean nothing going forward. Designated hitters will be standard practice from here on out. Owners never ever miss a chance to turn something to their Financial advantage. Tradition means nothing. Money means everything
While we’re at it, a division made up of teams that aren’t in the U.S. (mainland) or Canada would be interesting…
Mexico City
Monterrey
San Juan
Santo Domingo
Actually San Antonio should be considered before any others. 7th largest city in US, and heavy Latin influence and rabid fan base for Dallas Cowboys from there.
Several teams could relocate honestly. Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania don’t need two teams, Chicago doesn’t need two teams and California doesn’t need five teams.. They could easily move the Rays, Pirates, White Sox and Athletics and have the Reds and Indians merge into one franchise that would be relocated to Columbus.
That’s nuts! Aside from Florida, those places have two (or more) teams because they actually support them, whereas a small city like Columbus never could. You’re crazy if you think fans from Cincy and Cleveland are actually going to drive all the way to the state capital to attend baseball games on a regular basis.
You may be right about the Cincinnati and Cleveland fan bases but Columbus is actually a bigger market. Tampa Bay doesn’t get fan support, Oakland can’t figure out their stadium mess and Pittsburgh isn’t even trying to win. You could even add Baltimore to this list but I’d prefer not to.
Pennsylvania is a huge state, man. I’d argue they absolutely deserve the two teams they have. It’d be really inconvenient for Pittsburgh residents to drive to Philadelphia 81 times a season. Pittsburgh is a solid market, anyway. The ownership is just poor.
I honestly think you’re going overboard on the relocation. If it were me, I’d move the Rays, and that’s it.
Pittsburgh has spent the majority of the last three decades not even trying to win though. I honestly don’t know how they didn’t move 10 or 15 years ago.
I would spread the teams out more if I was starting a league from scratch right now. Just for example…
Atlanta, Baltimore, Charlotte, D.C., Nashville
Boston, Brooklyn, New York, Philadelphia, Toronto
Chicago, Columbus, Detroit, Indianapolis, Louisville
Dallas, Houston, Minnesota, New Orleans, St. Louis
Denver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Diego
Calgary, Portland, San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver
We don’t have a team yet but we have 81 people already lined up to sing the national anthem in their first season. Great,
please God, no more expansion. the game is too watered down as it is
We need new markets though. Get rid of Tampa Bay, Oakland, Pittsburgh and one of the Chicago teams. Then combine the two Ohio teams into one but put them in Columbus because it’s a bigger market.
Here are some random new teams all with alliteration…
Nashville Ninjas
Raleigh Reapers
Buffalo Bisons
San Antonio Scorpions
Guam Ghosts
Salt Lake Silvers
Vancouver Valkyries
Jacksonville Jackals
Orlando Orcas
Portland Pike
That’s great… but what about their publicly-financed, less-than-five-years-old AAA stadium?
After this year you will see several franchises move. Teams will simply run of money. Some will move to try to escape creditors, others will see better opportunities elsewhere.
Baltimore will move to Charlotte
Pittsburgh will move to Louisville
Oakland will move to Silicon Valley
Kansas City will move to El Paso/Juarez
Tampa will move to Montreal
Cincinnati will Move to San Francisco
There is also a scenario where the Mets are bought by London investors and are moved to London. They will need a second team in London and then possibly another team in the NY market, specifically brooklyn. You will see several franchises line up for the chance to play in Brooklyn. This is now happening.
You must be trippin’
Not if they’re locked in long term leases,they won’t.
Lay off the weed
While we’re at it, send the Pirates to Tasmania, the Rays to New Zealand, the Marlins to Costa Rica and the Phillies to Egypt. Then add expansion teams in Israel, Russia, India, the Congo, Saudi Arabia and Antartica.
*Antarctica
Some of you keep bringing up expansion. What if MLB said your team can only protect 15 players? Still want expansion??..
The roster protection doesn’t really bother me. If nothing else it will penalize the teams run like horse manure, as they lose talent for nothing, and will give players on powerhouses like the Dodgers or Yankees who are blocked the opportunity to actually show what they can do. While I’d love to see it, as there are so many guys who could very well be All-Star level players, who are being overlooked for whatever reason, I don’t think expansion is plausible right now seeing as how baseball is in, what is beginning to look like an irreparable financial crisis that will have a long-standing impact on the entire structure of the sport.
Here are my thoughts in regard to expansion:
First of all, Nashville isn’t a bad idea for a franchise, although I believe Charlotte might have been better (slightly). That being said, if I’m being honest, this might be the single worst possible time for expansion. Between the 60-game season (in which we’ve already seen nearly 100 players diagnosed with COVID-19 in the first 2 weeks), and the more than likely labor war that could very well be reminiscent of 1994, or even considerably worse, seeing as how Manfred is the human embodiment of incompetence and the MLBPA and Owners have the maturity of a standard second grade class fighting over lunch time seating arrangements,
Furthermore, the cast of characters announced by this article as the ring leaders for this franchise are one Dave Littlefield away from being the four horsemen of notoriously terrible baseball executives. If these three are, in fact, the ones leading the charge, and the past is any indication, my guess is that the first offseason will consist of at least two washed up players getting way over-market, multi-year contracts, and trades of top prospects for mediocre players.
I will give Dombrowski credit for some of his past work from the turn of the century, but all he left following his departures from Detroit and Boston were embarrassing farm systems and payrolls consisting of contracts that were predictable albatrosses from the moment that the ink dried on the paper.
So a reverse quota system?! [sarcasm]Great, just what we need![/sarcasm] Whatever happened to just picking the most qualified candidates irregardless of race?
In the late 1950s they had actually proposed a third major league called the Continental League. Maybe it’s time to bring it back with two six-team divisions.
East: Buffalo, Charlotte, Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville
West: Las Vegas, Portland, Sacramento, Salt Lake, San Antonio, Vancouver
Hope this happens. Also hope for a second team to make it 32 and go back to 4 divisions, two division winners and two wild cards, but most import is a more balanced strength of schedule.
They’ll likely have eight divisions of four because they don’t want to lose postseason revenue by going to only two postseason rounds.
Didn’t see where you said two wild cards per league but I still feel like they’d have four divisions per league instead so that more teams can win division titles every year
I want to see less divisional games and boost rivalries with more in-division teams. Re-ignite Detroit and Cleveland in the AL East. Minnesota against the AL West. Four division winners total, four wild card teams total. Two in each league.
Posted it already but I’ll post it here too…
Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Miami, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Washington
Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Indianapolis, New York (Mets), New York (Yankees), Philadelphia, Toronto
Chicago (Cubs), Chicago (White Sox), Houston, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minnesota, St. Louis, Texas
Arizona, Colorado, Los Angeles (Angels), Los Angeles (Dodgers), Oakland, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle
That’s if you want to realign everything regionally. Obviously it would be different if you wanted to keep every team in their current league.
Lol remember how well it went last time La Russa and Stewart teamed up
3 Leagues include a Midwest one besides Eats and West. It’s got to be Geographic and Orlando gets Team before everybody else does.
Costa Rica will get a team before they put another team in Florida…and Costa Rica isn’t getting a team.