He really needs to go to AAA to be able to really start a ML pitching career.
He seems to be injury prone but may have promise if he can get a solid restart.
Yeah. Idk if you were responding to me. I wasn't talking about your post. Just occured to me tho that apparent, oddly, could be used to mean what he intended but that's not how he said it.
Thanks El.
There is a stigma attached to first rounders as they are supposed to be can’t miss.
I do not get too excited about minor league players until they perform extremely well at AAA for at least a couple of months.
Once in awhile there is someone who is extremely talented who can skip that level with success but rarely.
Your attached list does indeed prove that it is an inexact science no matter what the statistics say.
Dumb move by the Reds. We are one TySteve injury away from really regretting this. There are no other viable catchers in the upper minors. Will Banfield is barely batting above .200 at Triple-A and he would be the next man up.
Well first off he was ready before all the injuries and they kept him down trying to expand the years of control over him. All the clubs do it. Then guys get hurt in the minors. They need to start bring up guys when they are ready then at least you get something out of them. Plus maybe injuries won't happen if up with the technology. Tired of pencil pushers deciding when guys are ready. Honestly dont know how anyone can have a HOF career now. Time to get back to the old ways
Here's an article following the 2016 draft with pick-by-pick analysis by Jim Callis. There are plenty of "high floor" guys who missed. This is not meant as a knock on Callis. More than in other sports, the MLB draft is an inexact science.
Especially a HS pitcher. However, that whole first round was a bust. Wil Smith is the top talent in that round. Cal Quantril is second in career WAR in the 2016 1st round. That says a lot.
Mike Maddux is one of the best pitching coaches in the game. He has Tyler Mahle looking like a Cy Young candidate and Patrick Corbin looking like a viable major league starter again. And that's saying nothing of Jack Leiter's turnaround.
Rocker's woes aren't on the Rangers coaches. He's just got to get better. His fastball command is awful, and he doesn't have a starter's pitch mix currently. It's early yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if a move to the bullpen is in his future.
It's time to call up Prelipp or someone else who can try and bridge the gap. Unless we're serious and trade for a starter who's got experience. Maybe a Walker Jenkins for veteran move?
Aaron Civale has become available as Milwaukee's pitching staff has gotten healthier. But any potential trade would have to wait until after the teams' series in two weeks.
When Chris Taylor was signed, people were on here saying that Jo Adell's time with the Angels was running out. I think he's safe now as he's been hitting well lately. 3-for-3 with 2 homers off Castillo last night.
There was a generic collision of sorts between Rodriguez and what appeared to be a ball off the bat of Arozarena that resulted in Rodriguez being assisted from the playing field, but none of this is confirmed. Writer trying to remember if this actually happened or was simply a dream. Fans may or may not have reason for concern.
Aroldis Chapman won his first WS with that team. I think he's worthy based on his stats and dominance but it depends on how much voters weigh his off-the-field issues.
Interesting. Looks like the Orioles let go a productive BP arm with the real possibility of injury. The Twins picked up a productive bp arm with the real possibility of injury.
As former Rangers GM Tom House once said, “We can’t win at home, and we can’t win on the road. So it’s my job as the GM to figure out where else we can play.”
This starting pitching rotation was always one injury from disaster, as exemplified by last seasons 2 month flop after Ryan injury. None of these young arms are capable big league pitchers, just 5 inning hold overs who eventually wear out a bullpen.
Good point, he is ahead of Cousins in rehab innings pitched. They seem to be getting his pitch counts up, perhaps not starter level, but a long man. I guess it can not hurt to build him up as a starter just in case he's needed in that role, although I have been preferring Winans as the next guy up. Check out his numbers and game logs. Every single game is good-to-great. He's already on the 40.
Don't bother trying to reason w/Rebuild/BravesFan2024/and his many other screen names. He's been on this rant for the last 3 years. He posts the same criticisms during every losing streak and playoff loss. Ad infinitum ad nauseam.
Yes, Cole was really good in '23. Just like Burnes he was very success prior to getting injured. My point isn't they weren't successful but the fact their strikeout stuff declined with a lot of specific metrics to their arsenal might indicate they had accumulated injuries to possibly their UCL. It should be noted that lots of pitchers will pitch with partial tears or mini tears in their UCL, and it they don't get TJS until they can throw.
Another great indication a pitcher is about to get TJS is how McClanahan went down in '23. His velo and stuff were fine but his walks jumped because he didn't have the same control. Cole and Burnes took a different approach, they didn't sacrifice maintaining control and command to keep their stuff up, it also helped to delay the inevitable surgery.
I remember several years back when some people practically had this guy in the Hall of Fame before he ever got out of AA. He may have had the talent before injury, but it just goes to show that it takes a lot more than just talent to form a HOF career. It takes durability and a lot of luck too.
FPG
Where you at? What do you have to say about the rookies bravado? I'm sure ESPN will have plenty to say about the comments.
Adds some juice to the game. He better get out of the first inning unscathed or it could be a long night for Sox Nation.
Dobbins said he would rather retire than play for the Yankees.(Boston Herald)Wow. Strong talk rook. Let's hope he can back up his words. I don't hate that he said it,but you better be able to pitch your butt off tonight. Rookie, Yankee Stadium, Sunday Night Baseball, series on the line. He better be ready to hear it from Yank fans right from the start. The more I think about it,the more I like it. Lets go !!!
Stock is here to give the Sox some length in case Dobbins gets hit hard tonight. A live ,fresh arm for an overworked bullpen. Can we get through the first couple innings without being in the hole several runs? Nice to see Story come through,even if his bases clearing double went off of the 3rd basemans glove. It was scorched.
Steinbrenner2728
In all honesty, it’s kind of sad seeing fans worry about Arte’s money.
=================================
There is not a single person in the entire universe, outside of Arte, that worries about Arte's money.
However, I do assume that most Angel fans would like Arte's payroll investment to be done as effectively as possible. You can't have a $219M payroll and get a -0- return on $65M of that $219M, and expect to win.
GoogleMe
Why would you look at his entire career?
=====================
Because he was mediocre for his entire career prior to his last 7 weeks with TB. If he had 1-2 good years, after a mediocre career, then I would weigh that more highly. But 7 weeks, at age 30, capturing the fountain of youth? No.
Just curious... has any World Series champion not have a Hall of Famer on their roster?
I know teams in the past 10 years wouldn't because they aren't eligible. But just wondering.
I do believe every team prior to the 1981 Dodgers had at least one Hall of Famer on their roster.
1981 Dodgers, but Dusty Baker will probably get in as manager. Tommy Lasorda is in as manager.
1997 Marlins, Maybe? Moises Alou should probably get in with the veterans committee. Jim Leyland is in as manager.
2002 Angels KRod? Maybe. No one else has a shot. Mike Scioscia has a chance
2008 Phillies Jimmy Rollins? Chase Utley? Maybe
2015 Royals Salvador Perez, most likely. Joe Nathan? Maybe?
I have an issue with the attempt of "colorful" writing with the way it's written It is shaped that JRod actually collided with Randy- not the ball "colliding" with the player. Never saw it written that way before.
Why would you look at his entire career? It is quite evident he is a different pitcher than when he entered the league. He use to average 92mph and is now out 97mph. It is a huge difference.
He is also a fly ball pitcher. Pitching in GABP and in Colorado probably did him no favors.
He has a low walk rate and high SO rate in recent history. There is reason to believe he could be a good setup man, but he needs to be available to prove that.
Rsox - correct. Most teams have 1 or 2 bullpen spots that rotate somewhat frequently if starters exit early and bullpens get over used. That is the reason pitchers having minor league options makes them more valuable than pitchers / players who do not have them. Without options, a players needs to clear waivers to be sent back to the minors. Just because a player is sent to AAA does not mean he is bad, it simply means a team needs a fresh arm or someone who can fill a different position of need.
It's amazing that being banned from a sports blog because of your boring repetition didn't teach you to STFU. You either know nothing about business or are just desperate for attention.
He was allowing no one to cross the plate in 13 appearances (11 IP) until mid May, had a horrible week and a half run, then went to the Rays and was fantastic in 42 appearances (38.1 IP) from June 1st until the seasons end, never allowing an OPS above .529
He was also good in very few appearances (13, with 13.1 ip) the year prior in Pittsburgh, with just the week and a half prior to being traded being the only bad stretch the last 2 seasons
That said, it was a pretty small sample size in the scheme of things, and much of that production was for a Rays team that is notorious for getting more out of mediocre arms than any other club. The Angels giving him the contract they did is the same shortsighted, wishing for a short trend to continue nonsense the Angels have become known for the last decade plus
This team is in free fall. Cant even beat bad teams. Cant win at home or on the road. Cant hit and also cant pitch. I don't think they'll be aggressive at the deadline, either.
He really needs to go to AAA to be able to really start a ML pitching career.
He seems to be injury prone but may have promise if he can get a solid restart.
Okay, second-to-last thing.
Hideki Matsui retired in 2012 and probably is living a very comfortable life, no need to keep battling Mothra and others.
Pittsburgh hasn't supported the team through the last four ownership groups, dating back to 1970.
Yeah. Idk if you were responding to me. I wasn't talking about your post. Just occured to me tho that apparent, oddly, could be used to mean what he intended but that's not how he said it.
I repeat it when others repeat the moaning that the Pirates are cheap..
Poor comment by how bout, followed up by a much worse comment by Jason eye.
Tugboat54,
Provide some evidence that Pittsburgh is a good market for baseball.
I've provided 50 years worth of evidence that it is a bad market for baseball;
My statements about the bad Pittsburgh market are not nearly as repetitive as the decades-long, daily moaning that the Pirates are cheap.
Thanks El.
There is a stigma attached to first rounders as they are supposed to be can’t miss.
I do not get too excited about minor league players until they perform extremely well at AAA for at least a couple of months.
Once in awhile there is someone who is extremely talented who can skip that level with success but rarely.
Your attached list does indeed prove that it is an inexact science no matter what the statistics say.
Jupiter and Semele must be so proud of him.
Provide some evidence that Pittsburgh is a good market for baseball.
Cole Ragans and Will Smith. Other than them, a bunch of guys whose names we barely recognize.
Well, we have Baez for 2 yrs after this one. So there's plenty of time to let this sort itself out
Get to MIL and let the Crew go to work on him!
Take a flyer San Diego, cannot be any worst than hart
I’ve never heard of a pitcher whose slider in thrown faster than his fastball? 96.7 for his slider and 96.3 for his fastball???
What about Mark Wohlers, or whatever his name was. The guy that was their closer in the 90's?
Dumb move by the Reds. We are one TySteve injury away from really regretting this. There are no other viable catchers in the upper minors. Will Banfield is barely batting above .200 at Triple-A and he would be the next man up.
Hedeki Matsui, he retired
baseball-reference.com/players/m/matsuhi01.shtml
Another one is here queer. Now gtfoh
Well first off he was ready before all the injuries and they kept him down trying to expand the years of control over him. All the clubs do it. Then guys get hurt in the minors. They need to start bring up guys when they are ready then at least you get something out of them. Plus maybe injuries won't happen if up with the technology. Tired of pencil pushers deciding when guys are ready. Honestly dont know how anyone can have a HOF career now. Time to get back to the old ways
Here's an article following the 2016 draft with pick-by-pick analysis by Jim Callis. There are plenty of "high floor" guys who missed. This is not meant as a knock on Callis. More than in other sports, the MLB draft is an inexact science.
mlb.com/news/mlb-draft-pick-by-pick-selections-ana…
That’s called cherry picking stats that fit your narrative Richard J. Hardly definitive proof of your claim.
We could get a Seymour Wong on the score bug next series
@Richard J
Pittsburgh is not a “historically bad market for baseball.” They would be supportive of a team who had an Owner who cared about fans properly.
Would love to see O’s claim him.
6 hits in one game this year, I believe
Agreed. Looks like a costly failed experiment at this point
Seymour!
Cash considerations from a team owned by John Fisher. Come on, joke writers. Give this one your best shot.
baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=whi…
He played for Round Rock in 2019.
Especially a HS pitcher. However, that whole first round was a bust. Wil Smith is the top talent in that round. Cal Quantril is second in career WAR in the 2016 1st round. That says a lot.
Good for Wynns.
Right!
Mike Maddux is one of the best pitching coaches in the game. He has Tyler Mahle looking like a Cy Young candidate and Patrick Corbin looking like a viable major league starter again. And that's saying nothing of Jack Leiter's turnaround.
Rocker's woes aren't on the Rangers coaches. He's just got to get better. His fastball command is awful, and he doesn't have a starter's pitch mix currently. It's early yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if a move to the bullpen is in his future.
All I see is a bunch of non-paying Karens doing their whiny thing from the everlasting comfort of mom’s basement couch.
That’s the new normal.
It's time to call up Prelipp or someone else who can try and bridge the gap. Unless we're serious and trade for a starter who's got experience. Maybe a Walker Jenkins for veteran move?
Aaron Civale has become available as Milwaukee's pitching staff has gotten healthier. But any potential trade would have to wait until after the teams' series in two weeks.
Tom House, catcher of Hank's 715th home run out in the Braves bullpen!
The league average has hovered in the .240s for a few years now. So his average is about average.
He was injured, allegedly.
Yeah, that would be worse.
What’s that have to do with the author/editor reviewing links to ensure they are correct?
When Chris Taylor was signed, people were on here saying that Jo Adell's time with the Angels was running out. I think he's safe now as he's been hitting well lately. 3-for-3 with 2 homers off Castillo last night.
There was a generic collision of sorts between Rodriguez and what appeared to be a ball off the bat of Arozarena that resulted in Rodriguez being assisted from the playing field, but none of this is confirmed. Writer trying to remember if this actually happened or was simply a dream. Fans may or may not have reason for concern.
Aroldis Chapman won his first WS with that team. I think he's worthy based on his stats and dominance but it depends on how much voters weigh his off-the-field issues.
Coulumbe.
Interesting. Looks like the Orioles let go a productive BP arm with the real possibility of injury. The Twins picked up a productive bp arm with the real possibility of injury.
As former Rangers GM Tom House once said, “We can’t win at home, and we can’t win on the road. So it’s my job as the GM to figure out where else we can play.”
This starting pitching rotation was always one injury from disaster, as exemplified by last seasons 2 month flop after Ryan injury. None of these young arms are capable big league pitchers, just 5 inning hold overs who eventually wear out a bullpen.
And to throw even more cold water on the state of hitting, there are currently only 3 active players with a career BA over .300
Loved him in “Fast times at Ridgemont High!!”
Whitley pitched for Round Rock, but that was back in 2019. He pitched for Sugar Land in the years referenced in the article.
Apparently a fight has broken out in the upper deck.
Step one is keeping him off the Stearns & Foster
2016 Cubs?
And they recently switched from the Skeeters to the Space Cowboys.
Good point, he is ahead of Cousins in rehab innings pitched. They seem to be getting his pitch counts up, perhaps not starter level, but a long man. I guess it can not hurt to build him up as a starter just in case he's needed in that role, although I have been preferring Winans as the next guy up. Check out his numbers and game logs. Every single game is good-to-great. He's already on the 40.
Would be interested in seeing what Stearns & Hefner could do with him.
It just goes to show you that it’s a massive gamble taking any pitcher in the 1st round
Every team better be on Craig's list and his radar
Forrest is running to Mexico now
Nice First round bust from 2017
Don't bother trying to reason w/Rebuild/BravesFan2024/and his many other screen names. He's been on this rant for the last 3 years. He posts the same criticisms during every losing streak and playoff loss. Ad infinitum ad nauseam.
For Elias, sometimes the best off-season desl you make is the one you don't.
Round Rock is the Rangers affiliate guys.
Yes, Cole was really good in '23. Just like Burnes he was very success prior to getting injured. My point isn't they weren't successful but the fact their strikeout stuff declined with a lot of specific metrics to their arsenal might indicate they had accumulated injuries to possibly their UCL. It should be noted that lots of pitchers will pitch with partial tears or mini tears in their UCL, and it they don't get TJS until they can throw.
Another great indication a pitcher is about to get TJS is how McClanahan went down in '23. His velo and stuff were fine but his walks jumped because he didn't have the same control. Cole and Burnes took a different approach, they didn't sacrifice maintaining control and command to keep their stuff up, it also helped to delay the inevitable surgery.
Poor man is going to have to resurrect his career in Colorado now
Astros AAA is Sugar Land not Round Rock.
I remember several years back when some people practically had this guy in the Hall of Fame before he ever got out of AA. He may have had the talent before injury, but it just goes to show that it takes a lot more than just talent to form a HOF career. It takes durability and a lot of luck too.
FPG
Where you at? What do you have to say about the rookies bravado? I'm sure ESPN will have plenty to say about the comments.
Adds some juice to the game. He better get out of the first inning unscathed or it could be a long night for Sox Nation.
That's New York. Players know what they signed up for. Rondon was booed last year. Even Jeter got boos during deep slumps.
Life comes at you fast as a Twins fan
Dobbins said he would rather retire than play for the Yankees.(Boston Herald)Wow. Strong talk rook. Let's hope he can back up his words. I don't hate that he said it,but you better be able to pitch your butt off tonight. Rookie, Yankee Stadium, Sunday Night Baseball, series on the line. He better be ready to hear it from Yank fans right from the start. The more I think about it,the more I like it. Lets go !!!
X-rays came back negative for JRod's ankle and he responded well to treatment. It's day-to-day.
seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/mariners-julio-ro…
Good luck Akil!
“Run, Forrest, Run!”
I wish this was sad but it is the reality of the situation.
You have to wonder if he is out for the year do they finally do a blockbuster for Duran with the Red Sox.
Say your piece and move on. Everyone has an opinion, and we have heard yours. Move on.
Stock is here to give the Sox some length in case Dobbins gets hit hard tonight. A live ,fresh arm for an overworked bullpen. Can we get through the first couple innings without being in the hole several runs? Nice to see Story come through,even if his bases clearing double went off of the 3rd basemans glove. It was scorched.
Steinbrenner2728
In all honesty, it’s kind of sad seeing fans worry about Arte’s money.
=================================
There is not a single person in the entire universe, outside of Arte, that worries about Arte's money.
However, I do assume that most Angel fans would like Arte's payroll investment to be done as effectively as possible. You can't have a $219M payroll and get a -0- return on $65M of that $219M, and expect to win.
You said that. No need to keep repeating. That's what makes you a troll.
"Arte's money"...Fans are worried about their team's future and place in the standings, not "Arte's money".
GoogleMe
Why would you look at his entire career?
=====================
Because he was mediocre for his entire career prior to his last 7 weeks with TB. If he had 1-2 good years, after a mediocre career, then I would weigh that more highly. But 7 weeks, at age 30, capturing the fountain of youth? No.
Yeah, so sad that fans want players who actually play getting paid.
It’s not like those resources could’ve been spent in a starter or position player and actually helped the team.
The dude was hurt when the contract was a signed.
A $33 million co tract to a guy coming off the only good 3 month stretch of his career is bad enough. When he’s injured, it is just stupid.
I’ve disliked this deal since day one.
Its in comparison to the rest of the league, and with the new stats, average is undervalued, so yeah, mediocre is now celebrated.
Probably an injury, hopefully not a long term injury, could be a boo-boo. He'll get wrapped in an ace bandage and sent back out there.
Time to go get John Rocker
Just curious... has any World Series champion not have a Hall of Famer on their roster?
I know teams in the past 10 years wouldn't because they aren't eligible. But just wondering.
I do believe every team prior to the 1981 Dodgers had at least one Hall of Famer on their roster.
1981 Dodgers, but Dusty Baker will probably get in as manager. Tommy Lasorda is in as manager.
1997 Marlins, Maybe? Moises Alou should probably get in with the veterans committee. Jim Leyland is in as manager.
2002 Angels KRod? Maybe. No one else has a shot. Mike Scioscia has a chance
2008 Phillies Jimmy Rollins? Chase Utley? Maybe
2015 Royals Salvador Perez, most likely. Joe Nathan? Maybe?
I have an issue with the attempt of "colorful" writing with the way it's written It is shaped that JRod actually collided with Randy- not the ball "colliding" with the player. Never saw it written that way before.
Why would you look at his entire career? It is quite evident he is a different pitcher than when he entered the league. He use to average 92mph and is now out 97mph. It is a huge difference.
He is also a fly ball pitcher. Pitching in GABP and in Colorado probably did him no favors.
He has a low walk rate and high SO rate in recent history. There is reason to believe he could be a good setup man, but he needs to be available to prove that.
Rsox - correct. Most teams have 1 or 2 bullpen spots that rotate somewhat frequently if starters exit early and bullpens get over used. That is the reason pitchers having minor league options makes them more valuable than pitchers / players who do not have them. Without options, a players needs to clear waivers to be sent back to the minors. Just because a player is sent to AAA does not mean he is bad, it simply means a team needs a fresh arm or someone who can fill a different position of need.
It's amazing that being banned from a sports blog because of your boring repetition didn't teach you to STFU. You either know nothing about business or are just desperate for attention.
Not true
He was allowing no one to cross the plate in 13 appearances (11 IP) until mid May, had a horrible week and a half run, then went to the Rays and was fantastic in 42 appearances (38.1 IP) from June 1st until the seasons end, never allowing an OPS above .529
He was also good in very few appearances (13, with 13.1 ip) the year prior in Pittsburgh, with just the week and a half prior to being traded being the only bad stretch the last 2 seasons
That said, it was a pretty small sample size in the scheme of things, and much of that production was for a Rays team that is notorious for getting more out of mediocre arms than any other club. The Angels giving him the contract they did is the same shortsighted, wishing for a short trend to continue nonsense the Angels have become known for the last decade plus
Bob Nutting is getting exactly the attedance he deserves. Fix it for you.
Kid has looked really good in AAA
This team is in free fall. Cant even beat bad teams. Cant win at home or on the road. Cant hit and also cant pitch. I don't think they'll be aggressive at the deadline, either.
.248/.316 is respectable and not a slow start? He’s supposed to be their star player.
But I’ve been assured by bots not watching the actual games and merely watching the Fangraphs game scores, that Iglesias is fine thanks to his xFIP