Metsblog's Matthew Cerrone reports that the Mets are interested in signing John Smoltz and one of either Joel Pineiro or Ben Sheets. Cerrone notes that "all three have legit interest in pitching for the Mets on short-term deals," and that signing Pineiro or Sheets would indicate that Smoltz's role in New York would be as a reliever.
The Mets have been linked to this trio and several other starters this winter, but they have yet to make any significant additions to their starting rotation. It's possible that pressure from fans and the New York media might be starting to take a toll on the club. Cerrone cites a report from SI.com's Jon Heyman on The MLB Network in relation to Sheets, where Heyman said the Mets would like to make a "positive" signing in the wake of missing out on free agent catcher Bengie Molina.
Cerrone passed on more info from Heyman and Tom Verducci's discussion of Sheets' throwing session today. More than one scout told Heyman the pitcher looked like "the old Ben Sheets," and both Heyman and Verducci agreed that Sheets will sign a contract similar to Brad Penny's one-year, $7.5MM pact with the Cardinals. Heyman named the Mets, Cubs and Rangers as interested suitors, while Verducci named St. Louis and Seattle as "a likely destination."
Please Ben Sheets. Mets dodged one bullet by avoiding Bengie Molina. Hopefully they can dodge another one in Joel Pineiro.
Pineiro would not be a bad signing for 2 years
I think a lot of people would disagree.
Pineiro pitched terribly, not just bad, but terribly, I’m talking 5.00+ ERA terribly, for five straight seasons before finally having one contract year/Dave Duncan induced good season. I’d go as far as saying he’s just as big of a risk as Sheets is, except the Mets would be signing Pineiro for multiple years so they’ll be saddled with his contract in the likely event that he stinks up the joint in 2010.
It isn’t like his year was fueled by a low BABPIP or something. He significantly increased his groundball percentage, and largely cut down his walk rate. There’s three things a pitcher can control; how many homeruns he gives up, his strikeouts, and his walks, and Pineiro excelled in 2 of those 3 categories last year.
Will there be some regression next year? But I think it’s kind of foolhardy to say he’ll revert to the old Pineiro after one year just because he left Duncan. He became a completely different pitcher last year.
There’s still no reason to give him multiple years and assume he’s going to sustain his success when he’s been a scrub for five seasons straight before having one good year. The Mets need a true #2 starter (Sheets), and if they can’t get that, they should at least try to get an iron man that you can lock in for 200 innings guaranteed even if they’re not going to be very good (Garland). Pineiro provides the Mets with neither of those things.
Piniero wasn’t that bad in a few years with the M’s…2003 to be exact.
It’s true. In the battle for a worse team OBP with SF, the Mets have managed to narrowly escape by default. If the Mets could only be outbid on all their bad ideas, they’d be safe indeed.
The difference may be though that Pineiro would be smart to want to play at Citi field, while Molina probably would have struggled.
Whats wrong with Piniero? I think Smoltz is risky. I would go for Douggie Davis and Piniero given the fact that Davis wont cost THAT much more than John Smoltz.
If Mariners sign Ben Sheets, I can’t think of any better 1-2-3 combo in mlb. Seattle has a little money to spend and hope they sign him. (might as well sign Bedard also)
I can. Carp waino and sheets. Plus penny and loshe. Good god.
If the Mariners signed Sheets, the Cardinals would somehow clone another Sheets to add to their rotation?
Obviously saying if sheets signed in STL, we would have a more dominant rotation.To the point, does this mean the redbirds can still snag Sheets AND Smoltz?
As good as Carpenter and Wainwright are, Felix and Lee are probably a little better. Seattle and St. Louis probably have the two best TOR in MLB, but Felix and Lee do it in the American League, and I think that gives them the edge. The hitters behind them are a different argument altogether.
I would take Cards still; they have better starting stats as a team in ERA, less BB, and better WHIP. 1-2-3 I like the Cards 2 Cy Young Contenders and a donkey like Big SneeZe over Seattle (but they are still good).
Lee is a Cy Young award winner, and in the American League no less. Felix Hernandez finished 2nd in the Cy Young race in 09.
Carpenter is a Cy Young award winner and Wainwright finished 3rd in 09.
In a toss up, the Mariners would have a slightly better 1-2-3 with Sheets.
Felix/Lee/Sheets that will best 1-2-3 punch in baseball. Better than if the cardninals had Sheets, thats a scary playoff rotation.
Why does everyone think the Cards will be dominant if they signed Sheets? Wainwright and Carpenter can match up against any 1-2 in Baseball but there are better 1-2-3’s. I don’t even think that the Cardinals and Mariners need to be compared at all…The Diamondbacks and Yankees both have better 1-2-3’s than the Cards and M’s even though the M’s have the best 1-2 in Baseball. And think about the Red Sox’s 1-2-3 as well…
CC sabathia gets WAAAY to overhyped because he plays for the yankees, look the stats up, he is a solid pitcher but still a consistent 3.00 ERA guy..which is more than waino,carp,felix,and lee. Burnett has to be the most overhyped player on the planet, he isnt that good. Vasquez is gonna be interesting, if he can repeat his 09 season, you have an argument.
If a 3.00 ERA is bad then Nolan Ryan is the worst pitcher ever. Durability and location are some of the many things that make Sabathia great. Burnett is one of the top 20 pitchers in Baseball…If the guy pitchers to anybody not named Jorge Posada he pitches like an ace. If you are going to say that Burnett is not that good then all you look at is stats. The Yanks wouldn’t have won the World Series without AJ.
With run support from Albert and Matt…that is what makes Cards rotation more attractive.
A-Rod, Tex, Grandy, Swish, Jeter, Cano, and Posada can score more runs in a game than Pujols and Holliday even though Pujols is the best player in the game. Holliday has no one behind him and the Cards hitters don’t have any protection except for Pujols.
With only twice the payroll too! Dude, you listed 7 players to 2.
I think the Cards will be just fine with the Rotation that they have. Simple as Carp, Wainwright, Lohse, Penny…against the Pirates and the right handed hitting team of the Chicago Cubs should be fine. The Reds are the team in that division I’d worry about if I’m the Cardinals.
ludwick is a somebody last i checked, he is bound to be closer to his 08 form…but not near as good. Maybe a .280 avg/ 350 obp, / 25 homeruns/ 105 rbi’s. Thats pretty dang good for a #5 hitter. Rasmus will have a full season of playing time as well and should put up 20 home runs as well.
Ludwick just needs to get on base more. I wouldn’t compare Ludwick to Holliday or Pujols. After that Career year that Ludwick had the expectations for him have been too high. I’m not saying he isn’t a good hitter at all I just think he needs to stay in that 5th spot the whole season and before Holliday was there he was being relied on to drive Pujols in every single time he had the chance to.
I think that Sabathia, Vazquez, Burnett, Andy Petitte…Haren, Webb, and Jackson…and Lincecum and his crew will have something to say about that…
Please no one wants to go to the mets they are a last place team and nothing better no way playoffs are realistic so gust give up now mets fans
English fail
Congratulations. You’re a total idiot!
What about Beckett, Lackey, Lester?
No I’m not being bias, that’s probably the best 1-2-3.
I’ll take Felix/Lee/Sheets over Beckett/Lackey/Lester
Better than the potential Felix, Lee, Sheets? I guess there is an argument there… I don’t know. Top to bottom I think the Red Sox arguably have the best rotation in baseball.
Correct, 1-2-3 is solid but then you have a great 4 and 5 too. DiceK is expected to have a terrific year, then you have Buchholz who is also expected to have a huge year. But the Mariners have the potential to come close to matching the Sox rotation if they add Sheets.
You may have an argument for a solid 1-2-3 in Lester/Beckett/Lackey but you can’t just say that Dice-K and Buchholz will have huge years.
2009 FIPs:
Lester – 3.15
Beckett – 3.63
Lackey – 3.73
Dice-K – 5.09
Buchholz – 4.69
Sabathia – 3.39
Burnett – 4.33
Vazquez – 2.77 (Even if you add one for the NL move, it’s still pretty good)
Pettitte – 4.15
Hughes / Joba – around 3.5
If you look at Bill James’ and other projections, then you are looking at very competitive rotations. Career FIPs also give a similar value.
If you believe that both Buchholz and DiceK will have huge years then I can very well say that Hughes will also breakout as a starter and win the Cy Young. There is just no basis for these predictions. Yes, DiceK will probably have a better year this year (Yes, he played through an injury but how can we even be sure that injury is healed? How can aggravating an injury lead to a “terrific year”?)
However, even with the addition of Vazquez to the Yanks and Lackey to the Sox, I still believe the M’s will have a more productive starting rotation.
They led the AL in starting ERA for 2009 and have a great defensive team.
Atlanta led MLB in starter’s ERA for 2009 but the NL is different from the AL. I’m also not sure how well they’ll do this year without Vazquez.
Of course, this is why playing the game is so important. A rotation is rarely defined during the offseason; some pitchers may breakout and others may produce unusually poor numbers. (Injury is also a huge factor)
No, I think you are being a bit bias. Maybe not on purpose, I really can blame you for liking your own team, but Felix, Lee, Sheets….there is no way any other set of three is going to beat that with out Sabathia, Lincecum, Halladay or Greinke. The other two names that would be added to that list are the two Seattle has, Felix and Lee. There is no question that Becket, Lackey, and Lester are good, and even in head to head competition they still might win, but they wouldn’t be favored. They are close though.
sabathia doesnt belong on the list, he is a good pitcher but still consistently has an ERA above 3. Around 3.30-3.50 ish, not bad, not bad at all, but not on the same class as lincecum , halladay, grienke.
dude those 3 arent cy young contenders. Their all good pitchers, even great pitchers, but their not on the same plain as guys like lincecum, felix, carpenter, those perennial cy young contenders. Not to down play the top 3 the sox have, but their all sort of #2 guys. Lester might some day reach that plateau, but the ship has sailed for beckett and lackey.
sign ben sheets and piniero. put maine in the pen instead of smoltz. sounds good
your on the right track
Good Luck with Smoltz, he was brutal last year.
STL would bring him back.
Well, yea, he’d HAVE to go to an NL team or he’d get eaten up in the AL.
he’s done
If that last part came from the MLB Network show, which given the teams being mentioned i would think it is, then it should be known that Verducci never said that St. Louis and Seattle were likely destinations, just that they would make the most sense from Sheets point of view. For the Cards, the team is an NL team and pitching coach Dave Duncan has done wonders for pitchers looking to revive their careers. For Seattle, they are the only AL team that would make sense since they play in pitcher friendly Safeco Field and they have the best defense in baseball.
cmat, why would you put Maine in the bullpen, it takes him years to warm up and an inning to even get good. that would be a disaster, use your head. if they sign sheets they’ll be fine. santana, sheets, maine, pelfrey and perez. this year you decide whether to bury perez like in the minors a la kei igawa or not. if maine and pelfrey come off surgey and make adjustments, respectively, then you’re looking at santana 17+ wins, sheets 15+ wins, maine 14+ wins, pefrey 14+ wins and perez 10+ wins. how much more do you expect out of a normal big league rotation. have a couple guys throwing in the minors becaise you’re bound to lose one of them during the year.
metsslugger summed up my reasoning to putting him in the pen. hes got electric stuff but he just cant last. i dont know if it is cause of his shoulder or not but as a long relief pitcher he can do damage. if it takes him forever to warm up then, just an idea since your telling me to “use my head”, he can warm up a full inning or half inning before he goes in. its not that big of a deal. hes got nasty stuff it just doesnt belong in the rotation cause he cant last.
Sheets to the Mets makes good sense.
true
I’d love to just get Sheets and make a trade with someone for another SP. I think they should make a big trade with the Reds to acquire Arroyo/Harang + Brandon Phillips(but if we can’t get him, we can’t get him, still would like Harang or Arroyo). This way they’d have a pretty solid 1-2-3 now in Santana, Sheets, and Arroyo/Harang. In my opinion, they also need to sign Torrealba/Barajas and Carlos Delgado(if healthy)/Xavier Nady.
hmm i forgot about good ol nady. not too shabby to put at 1st with murphy. isnt he still recovering from tj though?
Please no SMOLTZ…thanks
Bring in Hank Blalock, no way Delagado to Mets….
amen
Can’t wait for Minaya to go on the Wfan with Francesa and talk about how he had a plan and stuck with it and now he feels the team is ready to play meaningful games in July.
To be fair Molina is a good RBI man and a solid catcher, but he’s an out of shape 35 year old catcher, has a terrible on base percentage, and most scout say his defense is slipping. The Mets need to make a smart definitive positive move like signing starting pitching – Sheets and Pineiro would give us a better deeper staff. Then Surround our staff with better defense by signing good backstop Barajas, solid 2B Hudson and reliable 4th OF Winn or Byrnes. The combination of large contracts (Perez/Castillo), injured players (Martinez/Reyes/Niese/Nieve), not ready for MLB minor leaguers (Davis/Meija) means we have to sign free agents b/c he can’t get fair value in trades right now. In any case, the time for patience is over, it’s time for ACTION!!!!!!!
Sheets and Pineiro make sense and would be excellent, but I can’t believe Matt Cerrone. His heart is in a good place, but he’s too Pro Mets to take as a credible source.
Mets Fans: What would you give for Duke and/or Maholm? Both are under team control for several more year.
thats too much talent to give up considering their farm system. i rather them sign someone like sheets then trade 2-3 prospects for a somewhat proven young starter
Coming from a Twins fan and diehard baseball fan, I think that if the Cardinals get Sheets their rotation has the potential to be one of the best any team has had in a long time. Carpenter, Wainwright, Sheets, Penny, Lohse could be ridiculous, especially under a guy like Dave Duncan. Carpenter, Wainwright, and Sheets all have the potential to be top flight aces and Penny isn’t far off from ace territory if he pitches to his potential.
I also would like to add that Sabathia is a very good pitcher, but as many have said, AJ Burnett is one of the most overrated pitchers/players in all of baseball. He is simply a low-level #2/top-level #3 at best.
Also, I must
Okay I’m gonna go ahead and chime in. I thought Molina coming to the mets wasn’t the worst idea and idk why other Mets fans disagree. Don’t u think with Beltran down we could use a catcher with a pulse? I know he’s old, slow, defensively challenged and has a horrible OBP. but honestly, since Lo Duca in 06 our catchers have been an easy out. Next off, the Mets should have jumped on Laroche, he signed for practically nothing and at least with him you know he’s probably gonna stay healthy. Now our only real option is to pay Delgado slightly less then Laroche got with a very real chance of missing significant time. At this point I’m pretty sure Hudson would come to the Mets for a handshake and a new jersey. I know offensively hes not a world away from Castillo but his Gold Glove can only help our pitchers, where as the hole in Castillo’s glove only hurts. Finally if the Mets only do one more thing this off-season, it NEEDS to be Sheets. Then you have a bona fide ace pitching behind Santana. If he’s healthy, having him changes our whole rotation. Personally, I would like to see Garland added as well. He would be there to eat innings and give a little more depth. PS. Throw Torrealba a bone and see if he bites…
at this point, i didnt mind if we signed Molina. i wouldve preferred to make a trade for a catcher that can solve our problem for a while instead of signing molina to a one year contract. he does still have some pop and wouldve been nice to have him in the lineup but it couldve been much better. i.e., trade for Doumit or someone of that caliber. nothing too fancy.
i wouldnt have minded signing Laroche but we wouldve used him as a platoon (or else we would be very RH heavy) and paying him that much to platoon wouldnt have been worth it. i think this year murphy will know what will be expected of him and if we have everyone back in the lineup he wont be under the spotlight and pressured to do great. remember this was only his 2nd year in the bigs (even though it shouldve been his rookie year). i wouldnt mind if we signed delgado to a 5M deal with incentives to go along with it though. add another lefty bat with some pop left in it. the only thing is supposedly he can barely move at first.
i dont see hudson as an answer at 2nd especially if hes seeking the same amount we’re paying castillo. hes pretty much the same player and little by little hes declining. we would be in the same predicament at 2nd if we signed him to the same contract we signed Castillo. i thought it would be better to try and trade for Harrang/Arroyo AND Phillips. thats a sure gold glover at 2nd with some pop as well. would fit nicely hitting behind reyes.
sheets, i think, is definitely a must at this point. if you put sheets behind santana and a sure innings eater with a sub 3 era behind sheets, thats a solid 1-2-3. no im not saying its the best in the mlb or NL but its solid.
I would like to know where you will find a #3 starter with a sub 3 era?
haha my bad to the sub 3 era. i meant sub 4. i apologize
To be fair Molina is a good RBI man and a solid catcher, but he’s an out of shape 35 year old catcher, has a terrible on base percentage, and most scout say his defense is slipping. The Mets need to make a smart definitive positive move like signing starting pitching – Sheets and Pineiro would give us a better deeper staff. Then Surround our staff with better defense by signing good backstop Barajas, solid 2B Hudson and reliable 4th OF Winn or Byrnes. The combination of large contracts (Perez/Castillo), injured players (Martinez/Reyes/Niese/Nieve), not ready for MLB minor leaguers (Davis/Meija) means we have to sign free agents b/c he can’t get fair value in trades right now. In any case, the time for patience is over, it’s time for ACTION!!!!!!!
Um, Laroche is a lefty. i.e. he would not be platooning with Murphy (lefty). The guy has hit 25 homers for two straight seasons and has maxed out at 32. Also that was in PNC Park in Pittsburgh, which is just as big as Citi. I also agree with trading for Doumit. He has a lot of upside and the Pirates need a second basemen (Castillo). Although the Mets have already flat-out said they wont be trading for him. That said, Molina was by far the best free agent catcher available. He hit 20 homers last year in AT&T Park, which is also just as big as Citi. Granted the Giants have almost no offense, but if he was good enough to bat clean-up for them, I’m sure he could have batted 7th or 8th for us. Finally Hudson is willing to sign for 1 year and around 3 million. Even if he ends up producing less the Castillo this year, his gold glove defense is easily worth that chump-change. Even if we can’t sign Castillo, 9 million for the both of them is very reasonable.
PS. I know the chances are very scarce but imagine they trade for Oswalt and sign Sheets. That my friends is a very potent 1-2-3.
To be fair Molina is a good RBI man and a solid catcher, but he’s an out of shape 35 year old catcher, has a terrible on base percentage, and most scout say his defense is slipping. The Mets need to make a smart definitive positive move like signing starting pitching – Sheets and Pineiro would give us a better deeper staff. Then Surround our staff with better defense by signing good backstop Barajas, solid 2B Hudson and reliable 4th OF Winn or Byrnes. The combination of large contracts (Perez/Castillo), injured players (Martinez/Reyes/Niese/Nieve), not ready for MLB minor leaguers (Davis/Meija) means we have to sign free agents b/c he can’t get fair value in trades right now. In any case, the time for patience is over, it’s time for ACTION!!!!!!!
Um, Laroche is a lefty. i.e. he would not be platooning with Murphy (lefty). The guy has hit 25 homers for two straight seasons and has maxed out at 32. Also that was in PNC Park in Pittsburgh, which is just as big as Citi. I also agree with trading for Doumit. He has a lot of upside and the Pirates need a second basemen (Castillo). Although the Mets have already flat-out said they wont be trading for him. That said, Molina was by far the best free agent catcher available. He hit 20 homers last year in AT&T Park, which is also just as big as Citi. Granted the Giants have almost no offense, but if he was good enough to bat clean-up for them, I’m sure he could have batted 7th or 8th for us. Finally Hudson is willing to sign for 1 year and around 3 million. Even if he ends up producing less the Castillo this year, his gold glove defense is easily worth that chump-change. Even if we can’t sign Castillo, 9 million for the both of them is very reasonable.
PS. I know the chances are very scarce but imagine they trade for Oswalt and sign Sheets. That my friends is a very potent 1-2-3.