6:46pm: Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com tweets that even though DeJesus would be a good fit for the Sox, word is that Kansas City is asking for "way too much."
10:48am: With injuries decimating their outfield corps, the Red Sox have contacted multiple teams around the league to gauge the availability of outfielders in advance of the trade deadline, writes Scott Lauber of The Boston Herald. He adds that one such conversation centered around David DeJesus.
Outfield depth was one area that MLBTR's Ben Nicholson-Smith highlighted when he reviewed the team's needs, which is obvious given the injuries to Jacoby Ellsbury, Jeremy Hermida, J.D. Drew, and Mike Cameron. The Royals are said to "love" currently injured shortstop prospect Jose Iglesias, though there has been no indication that Boston would part with him in a deal for DeJesus.
The 30-year-old DeJesus is enjoying a career year at .320/.389/.475, and he's owed approximately $2.6MM the rest of the season. There is also a $6MM club option for 2011 in his contract with a $500K buyout. Some other outfielders that could end up on the trading block include Austin Kearns, Coco Crisp, Scott Podsednik, Gabe Gross, Brad Hawpe, and Xavier Nady, all of whom can become free agents after the season.
Jim Hendry needs to get Boston on the phone ASAP. The Red Sox are a sabermetrically inclined team, who are likely to appreciate those on base and defensive skills that Fukudome brings to the field. Send him to Boston, give him away if you have to, but it’s time to tear this roster to the ground and start over.
Hendry already got Boston on the phone about Fukudome and refused to eat any salary.
He was hung up on.
Such intimate knowledge of the conversation, huh? Unless you were a fly on the wall, we’ll take that with a grain of salt. Reports in Chicago say the Cubs are willing to pay the rest of this season and half of next. That would make the cost between 6-7M for one and a half years.
mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/cubs-approached-red-sox…
mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/cubs-approached-red-sox…
I’ve tried to post two responses to this but they’ve been moderated. Go look on page 2 of Cubs’ Rumors on this very site. “The Cubs recently approached the Red Sox about Kosuke Fukudome, according to Sean McAdam of CSNNE. Sources in both leagues told McAdam that the Red Sox did not engage the Cubs in talks because of the $21MM remaining on Fukudome’s contract. The Cubs are apparently unwilling to take on much of the $13MM Fukudome makes this year or the $13.5MM he makes next year.”
The story is different in Chicago. Per Dave Kaplan, “My sources tell me that Cubs GM Jim Hendry has offered to pick up the bulk of the remaining dollars on the 2010 commitment and half of the money in 2011 but so far has found no takers for the under performing right fielder.”
Impossible to say which source is accurate, but I find it hard to believe the Cubs think anyone will take on that contract. My guess, and this is just a guess, is that the Cubs offered to pay a portion of the salary but Boston wanted them to pay more. It also seems to me that a bigger deterrent to Boston may be the roster problems it could potentially create next year. Whatever the case, I don’t think Fukudome is going to Boston in the near future, if ever.
Such intimate knowledge of the conversation, huh? Unless you were a fly on the wall, we’ll take that with a grain of salt. Reports in Chicago say the Cubs are willing to pay the rest of this season and half of next. That would make the cost between 6-7M for one and a half years.
But wouldn’t their sabermetrics tell them about Fukudome’s below average UZR?
Fukudome is well above average in his career when it comes to UZR. If you’re going to judge his defense on a 1/2 season sample size, then you probably don’t understand UZR that well to begin with.
That’s UZR as a RF, btw…
Then what are you judging it off? One season with a large sample size when he was 2 years younger? Unless you have his Japanese UZR, which I’d laugh if you did. In 09 he played less games in right than he has this year, so I’m hoping you’re not being a hypocrite and using that. Also, now he’s at the age where many decline on defense, so it wouldn’t be odd.
Again, you’re making that conclusion over a 60 game sample. Fukudome didn’t suddenly drop off. It’s the stat that’s flawed over short sample sizes. Alfonso Soriano is at 10.5 UZR, should we disregard his previous numbers and conclude that he’s suddenly an above average fielder based on 60 games?
Considering Soriano has had positive WAR in every season he played in the outfield except last year, I say it would be a reasonable conclusion to say he took his poor hitting last year into the field and is actually a great defensive outfielder.
As you seemingly ignored, I stated that you made a conclusion about Fukudome’s defense based solely on 2008. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to say Fukudome’s defense has declined with age. He hasn’t played good defense long enough to prove that this season’s bad defense is a fluke.
LOL…Soriano, a great outfielder? That’s a good one. You are the first person I’ve ever heard describe Soriano that way. That’s more of a testament to the unreliability of UZR than anything else. You put far too much faith in that number,. Why bother to follow the game when you can just scan right and look at UZR/150 and blindly follow whatever it says? Sometimes UZR can be useful, but other times it’s used as crutch. When you go as far to say Soriano’s a great fielder and Fukudome is a bad one, it boggles the mind. It’s hard to take you seriously… One of my favorite lines abut statistics…”Some people use statistics like drunks use lamposts, for support rather than illumination.”
This comment made me literally laugh out loud. You were just SOLELY using UZR to support your argument that Fukudome is good at defense, but then you call it unreliable. I repeat, you didn’t even say that watching Fukudome made you think he was a good outfield, just stuff about UZR, but then you basically call the statistic a joke, THROWING YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT (which was made very recently) OUT THE WINDOW. I don’t put anywhere near blind faith into that number, but having 32.8 UZR means there is no way you aren’t a great outfielder (he posted that in 2007). He may have looked awkward out there with his little hop, but he had very good speed then and apparently got very good jumps. He also I think led the league in outfield assists that year. Either way, this comment is a joke, and was met with a laugh at first glance. I can’t believe I even wasted 3 minutes typing this on such low intelligence.
Anyone who thinks Soriano is a “great defensive outfielder” obviously doesn’t know the game. And yes, you do have blind faith in UZR…by your logic…Soriano’s UZR has been high, so he’s good. Fukudome’s has dropped this year, so now he’s aged. Everything you say relies on that number for support.
And really, what I said was Fukudome was well above average in his career “when it comes to UZR”. In other words, if you’re going to use UZR as support. I didn’t say he was a great fielder because of his UZR numbers. Notice the difference? Read carefully next time.
And by the way, thank you for your assessment on my intelligence! I’ll take it with the utmost seriousness, of course.
Not true by any means. Just because an outfielder has some mental blunders which make sportscenter doesn’t mean he doesn’t have great range. You could be one of the people that BLINDLY FOLLOWS what they see on ESPN. I’m not even sure if you watch Cub games. From what I watch, Soriano seems like a natural, like Hanley Ramirez. Players like this tend to be overconfident in their abilities and make mental mistakes very often.
Being a White Sox fan, I’ve also watched Soriano a good deal, and he seems like a gifted OF that just looses focus or just doesn’t care too much about the game. I never said it was definitely the cause of aging, or that he DEFINITELY regressed on defense, but it’s very likely due to the stats.
Your later statement implied that you believed UZR could be applied to actual fielding ability, such as “Again, you’re making that conclusion over a 60 game sample. Fukudome didn’t suddenly drop off. It’s the stat that’s flawed over short sample sizes.” Through this you imply that the stat could be used in large sample size to mark a regression in fielding ability, and thus be used to measure fielding ability.
Also, what I said was “Either way, THIS COMMENT is a joke, and was met with a laugh at first glance. I can’t believe I even wasted 3 minutes typing this on such low intelligence.” Clearly I was referring to the intelligence of the comment, not your intelligence. “Read Carefully next time”.
Of course, UZR can be used. Just not as a crutch. And while it’s never 100% reliable, it’s generally more reliable in larger sample sizes than in smaller ones. And sometimes, it just plain misses the boat, as it does with Soriano. UZR may be one of the better statistics available right now, but it doesn’t mean it’s particularly good or terribly accurate. Lots of work and tinkering needs to be done.
And, by the way, I don’t watch ESPN. I don’t even have cable. Honest truth. It’s a waste of money, in my opinion.
Meant “one of the better defensive statistics available right now…”
I can agree with most of this comment. But I just don’t see how Soriano’s 30+ UZR could be incorrect. It’s a rating that measures how efficient fielders are at fielding balls in certain zones. To have a high UZR, he needed to have fielded balls very well in the zones. His outfield assists defintiely increases the number, but he still needed to have had great range to have a number as ridiculously high as he did. I agree the stat can’t be fully trusted, but if we’re using it, I think half a season’s UZR can be used to conclude things, especially with a player that’s posted bad second halves in both of his seasons in the league. So if his UZR is poor in the first half, it doesn’t seem like it would get better. I wish I could avoid watching as much TV as I do, so I understand where you’re coming from there. Also, just for your info, you can edit your own comments.
Yeah, I know…but I think it sends extra e-mails everytime you fix it — though I could be wrong about that. But I disagree about using 60 games worth of UZR to make conclusions on a player. I wouldnt use that any more than I would use 60 games worth of batting average to make a conclusion about a player. I’m not ready to say that Fukudome has suddenly become a liability in the field. I’m more incined to believe it’s due to everyday statistical variation, and no statistic seems to have more variation than UZR.
If you received 3 e-mails from my last comment, then you’re probably right, since I fixed some spelling errors. I think 60 games could be used to judge statistics like these. I would say Carlos Lee’s offense has regressed based on his play so far this season. You might disagree though. We just have different views on this type of thing I guess. I suppose we can agree to disagree with this.
I only got one e-mail. Good to know. I actually do agree with you on C Lee. But I also base that on my opinion that bigger, less athletic players tend to age faster. I’m also more inclined to believe peripheral hitting statistics than UZR. The biggest difference may be that I’m just very, very skeptical when it comes to the accuracy of UZR, particularly in smaller samples. But yeah, I agree to disagree when it comes to Fukudome’s defense.
Fukudome is well above average in his career when it comes to UZR. If you’re going to judge his defense on a 1/2 season sample size, then you probably don’t understand UZR that well to begin with.
I would love to have a *healthy* Crisp back from that list, but he is the only one and then not at 5.5M pro rated left on his contract for this season.
DeJesus the royals are just going to want far too much for and crisp can play GG caliber CF until *somebody* gets back, plus can count on him at least getting his slash hits at fenway at least.
Iglesias ain’t going nowhere, if KC wanted him, they should start spending some money on International FA’s, or in the draft for a change.. Too bad..
“if KC wanted him, they should start spending some money on International FA’s, or in the draft for a change.. Too bad.. ”
You must have taken a nap 5 years ago and just woke up. The Royals signed Arguelles and Cuthbert recently, and have set draft bonus records. Why make a comment about something you have absolutely no idea about?
Recently they have signed *some* IFA’s, but attributing a team setting new records in the draft bonus range who always picks in the top 10? Come on…
You know you said “…they should start spending SOME money on IFA’s…” then when someone says they have spent SOME money on IFA’s you come back and say “Recently they have signed SOME IFA’s…”. I believe you are talking out of your ass. If that wasn’t already clear when you campaigned to add an injured OF to add to your already injured OF.
I frankly don’t see the Sox trading their “shortstop of the future” for a rental outfielder.
If you were referring to DeJesus as a rental, he isn’t. He comes with a contract for next year, a club option for $6 million, or a 500,000 buyout. The team that gets him can keep for a very affordable contract-and KC should hold out for exactly what they want, or just keep him. He’s not blocking anyone yet, and he starts just about every game for them. I don’t think you have to sell/trade off all of your decent players just because you’re not contending. Cleveland did that, now NO ONE comes out to see them play.
Why would the Sox want, “Some other outfielders that could end up on the trading block include Austin Kearns, Coco Crisp, Scott Podsednik, Gabe Gross, Brad Hawpe, and Xavier Nady” ? What the Sox have now is better than all those. I’m satisfied with Nava and Mcdonald, knowing that Drew, Ellsbury, and Hermida will be back at 100% at some point.
Being a Sox fan I would like to see either DeJesus or Hawpe on the team. If the Iglesias thing is true though, DeJesus would not be worth it.
hawpe is having a pretty crappy season the sox would take him at their own risk
Iglesias is the second coming of Derek Jeter in my eyes
Omar Vizquel with a better bat is my hope haha
What are you high? The second coming of Derek Jeter…LMAO!
There’s no way they give up Iglesias to get Dejesus on a rental. Maybe Bowden. Maybe Bowden and another B-level prospect. Heck, maybe Jed Lowrie. But no way Iglesias goes.
Yeah, I don’t believe he does either, but you never know. Can’t count anything out.
A healthy crisp has been raking so far, of course he could be on the DL soon after. Probably the best defensive CF of the OF’s mentioned.
Epstein does not have a track record of giving up blue chip prospects for rentals. Ramirez and Anibel sanchez were traded for Beckett during that brief span while Epstein was away and David Murphy was anything but a blue chipper in the texas deal a few years back.
This is not Omar Minaya, Ed Wade, or Drayton Moore type of front office here, but one that makes smart/rational moves, based on LT implications.
Well like I said, DeJesus is really a career .280 guy with below-average power and average speed. I don’t see how an ‘average’ guy is worth a guy the Red Sox have high expecations for and by all accounts SHOULD be AT LEAST an above-average player. Bowden would make sense. Maybe even Doubront. I’d trade a b-level prospect. But that’s really it. I mean, it’s not the first time the Royals have drastically over valued their talent, but I can’t imagine Epstein giving up a guy he’s actually built plans around (signing Scutaro for two years to bridge to Iglesias) so the Red Sox can have a 3rd/4th outfielder who’s having a great season in a weak central division.
Can’t believe so many are bothering to say “gee, I think that’s unlikely” re: Iglesias for DeJesus. It’s not unlikely. It’s completely off the table. It is not a possibility at all.This isn’t a matter of pretending Iglesias is a future HOFer, it’s a matter of acknowledging he’s one of the best prospects in the game at a position with extreme value right now.
jed lowrie for gabe gross
There is absolutely no way that theo trades iglesias for an outfielder. If we didn’t have any outfielders i would call it a stretch, but since ours are injured, he’s not going to trade our SS of the future, a guy that has vizquel like skills and is just working in his offense(which is coming along nicely), for a replacement for a couple months. We will call up guys before that happens. Nava and Mcdonald have worked out fine so far. Ells should be back after the allstar break and drew should be back real soon.
Kearns may be the best fit for the Sox and they wouldn’t have to give up much, all the Indians are looking for is a maybe someday guys like low A high A players. Red Sox are loaded with lower level guys with high ceiling upside. Indians are looking for Shortstops, 3rd baseman and corner outfielder with pop that may develope into a power guy at some point, mostly guys who could fill out the lower levels of their organization.
Out of all those names dropped, a healthy Coco Crisp would be just what the sox need. Look, he’s a good hitter, he’s a great defender, he’s real fast. He could really fill the shoes of Jacoby nicely and he’s a fan favorite too.
If Epstein trades iglesias for ANY of those players ( without something added) I’m going to hang myself outside the cask n’ flagon……………
If he trades him at all I’d be very disappointed, Iglesias is really the only solid SS prospect the Red Sox have, and a good one at that. Finally could them some stability and production at the position.
If he trades him at all I’d be very disappointed, Iglesias is really the only solid SS prospect the Red Sox have, and a good one at that. Finally could them some stability and production at the position.
He won’t. I really believe that Theo signed Iglesias because he’s being seen as the Sox shortstop of the future.
Theo Epstein and shortstop of the future?
Now that is is funny. The dude has tried everything he can and has just been unable to find a long term solution. The one HUGE knock on Theo and his otherwise successful reign.
He won’t. I really believe that Theo signed Iglesias because he’s being seen as the Sox shortstop of the future.
Didn’t the Red Sox already trade away this generation hall of fame Shortstop…Hanley Ramirez ring a bell.
And all we got for him was a World Series title, Josh Beckett and a few good years of Mike Lowell. I would make that trade again in a heartbeat.
Every single time.
The Sox have to get someone. Cameron looks like a fish out of water in center. I saw one drop right in front of him last night.